List of Archived Posts

2008 Newsgroup Postings (11/15 - 11/28)

GPG

GPG

GPG

GPG

GPG

GPG

GPG

GPG

GPG

GPG

realtors (and GM, too!)

Blinkenlights

Blinkenlights

Web Security hasn't moved since 1995

realtors (and GM, too!)

realtors (and GM, too!)

realtors (and GM, too!)

realtors (and GM, too!)

A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?

Collateralized debt obligations (CDOs)

How is Subprime crisis impacting other Industries?

NYCE Revives "Safe Debit" Name for PINless Debit Test Set for '09

Is Pride going to decimate the auto Industry?

Newsgroups dying?

The madness of 'king cores'

Cybercrime Could Be As Destructive As Credit Crisis

Blinkenlights

TOPS-10

Blinkenlights

TOPS-10

TOPS-10

TOPS-10

I was wondering what types of frauds the audience think will increase?

Startio Question

Startio Question

Startio Question

Startio Question

BITNET & LISTSERV

TOPS-10

What do you think needs to happen with the auto makers to make them viable?

TOPS-10

TOPS-10

TOPS-10

TOPS-10

TOPS-10

Usenet - Dead? Why?

The Pattern of Engagement in High Value Sales Campaigns

Where Old Computers Find Their Final Resting Place

TOPS-10

Have not the following principles been practically disproven, once and for all, by the current global financial meltdown?

Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)

Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)

TOPS-10

Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)

Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)

Can outsourcing be stopped?

TOPS-10

Blinkenlights

Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)

APL

Mainframe files under AIX etc

Blinkenlights

Virtualization: What is it exactly?

EAL5 Certification for z10 Enterprise Class Server

EAL5 Certification for z10 Enterprise Class Server

APL

Blinkenlights

Certificates turn 30, X.509 turns 20, no-one notices

Obama, ACORN, subprimes (Re: Spiders)

if you are an powerful financial regulator , how would you have stopped the credit crunch?

Employees sue for non-paid PC boot-up time

What do you think is holding up the use of cellphone-initiated micro payments in the U.S.?

https question

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:20:08 -0500

Doug Laidlaw <doug@dougshost.invalid> writes:

I have never believed in "Don't ask questions; just follow the crowd."
Accepting "the crowd" has given me a disk bloated with drivers that I will
never use, and locales that I will never use, with no better justification
than the famous "Because they are there!"

I am still wondering if I need GPG at all.  About the only scenario I can
see where it is worth the trouble is emailing credit card details.  If such
an email is signed with GPG, is it protected during transit?  It is in no
way protected upon arrival.

"asymmetric cryptography" is technology where there are a pair of keys
... what one key encodes, the other key decodes. this is in contrast to
symmetric key technology where the same key is used to both encode &
decode.

"public key" is a business process where one of the key pair is
designated "public" and is freely published. the other key is kept
private & confidential and never divulged.

"public key" business process can be used to address the key
distribution problem in symmetric key infrastructures. it also addresses
problem of repositories of symmetric keys which may become compromised
(it isn't necessary to keep "public keys" confidential in the way that
"symmetric keys" are required to be kept confidential).

knowing somebody's "public key" allows anybody to encode information and
transmit it, knowing that only the entity with the corresponding "private
key" is able to decode it.

only the appropriate entity can decode the information, however the
recipient won't know who the sender was.

"digital signature" is a business process where an entity typically
encodes a representation of information (typically a secure hash of the
information, but it could be the whole message) with their private key.
anybody can use the entity's corresponding public key to do a decode
operation to validate the origin of the information.

SSL uses a form of public/private key technology to encrypt information
transmitted on the internet.

we had been called in to consult with a small client/server startup
that wanted to do payment transactions on their server ... and had
this technology they invented called SSL they wanted to use. Part of
that effort involved deploying something called a payment gateway
... misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

and the result is now frequently called "electronic commerce". This use
of SSL for electronic commerce (to hide the financial transaction
details) is still the major use on the internet today.

In the case of SSL, there is an additional business process called
"digital certificates" and institutions frequently called "certification
authorities". As part of the "electronic commerce" activity ... we had
to do some end-to-end business process audits of these (at the time) new
entities calling themselves "certification authorities". The design
point of "digital certificates" is a way of publishing information
related to the entity associated with public/private key pair ... for
first time communication between strangers. This is analogous to the
letters of credit/introduction from the sailing ship days where the
relying party had no other recourse about the stranger they were dealing
with.

In the case of GPG/PGP, public keys may be exchanged between parties w/o
requiring 3rd party certification authorities.

In the mid-90s, after having worked on this thing now called "electronic
commerce", we were asked to participate in the x9a10 financial standard
working group which had been given the requirement to preserve the
integrity of the financial infrastructure for *ALL* retail
payments. Part of that effort involved detailed, end-to-end, threat and
vulnerability studies of the various environments (internet,
point-of-sale, debit, credit, unattended, transit, stored-value, etc,
i.e. *ALL*). The outcome of that was the x9.59 financial standard
transaction protocol ... some references
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959

X9.59 protocol slightly tweaked the paradigm to require transactions to
be authenticated ... one scenario is very light-weight digital
signature. It turns out that with authenticated transaction, it is no
longer necessary to "hide" the transaction details. This eliminates the
threats from skimming, evesdropping, and data breaches. It doesn't
eliminate skimming, evesdropping, and data breaches ... but it
eliminates the threat that crooks can use the information to perform
fraudulent financial transactions. As a side-effect, it also eliminates
the major use of SSL on the internet for hiding electronic commerce
transactions.

As an aside, there were some other financial transactions specification
efforts going on at the same time as x9a10 in the mid-90s ... which also
looked at leveraging public/private key technologies ... but in
association with "digital certificates". Part of this issue was that
with prior relationship between an individual and their financial
institution ... it invalidated design point of "digital certificates"
for first time communication between strangers ... rendering the
"digital certificates" redundant and superfluous. The other issue
was that the redundant and superfluous "digital certificates" enormously
increased the typical payment transaction payload size and processing
overhead by factor of 100 times ... misc past posts mentioning this
enormous bloat resulting from using redundant and superfluous "digital
certificates"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#bloat

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:37:00 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:

I have *NEVER* heard this called a business process. Who calls it that?

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG

I do all the time ... for a little topic drift ... recent post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#12 more secure communication over the network

containing copy of old email from may81 ... part of thread discussing
proposal for PGP-like email operation on the internal network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email810515

the internal network was larger than the arpanet/internet from just
about the beginning until possibly late 85 or early 86 ... misc. past
posts mentioning internal network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

another part of the discussion in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#49 certificate distribution

with this slightly earlier email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#email810506

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 19:14:57 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:

I don't see them describing the PGP/GPG public/private key technology as a
business practice. Really, I see a lot of mentions about using them *in*
business practices, but I've never seen the technology itself referred to as
one. Or am I missing something in your references? Seriously, you're the only
one I've seen do so, and even your own references above to your own
conversations don't seem to do this.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG

a few business process references ....
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#41 AADS, X9.59, & privacy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsmore.htm#client4 Client-side revocation checking capability
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay2.htm#aadsx959 Account Authority Digital Signatures ... in support of x9.59
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#cstech cardtech/securetech & CA PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#kiss1 KISS for PKIX. (Was: RE: ASN.1 vs XML (used to be RE: I-D ACTION :draft-ietf-pkix-scvp- 00.txt))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#kiss3 KISS for PKIX. (Was: RE: ASN.1 vs XML (used to be RE: I-D ACTION :draft-ietf-pkix-scvp- 00.txt))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki19 DNSSEC (RE: Software for PKI)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay10.htm#65 eBay Customers Targetted by Credit Card Scam
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#68 Confusing Authentication and Identiification?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#53 TTPs & AADS Was: First Data Unit Says It's Untangling Authentication
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#12 Antwort: Re: Real-time Certificate Status Facility for OCSP - (RTCS)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#16 A challenge
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm14.htm#35 The real problem that https has conspicuously failed to fix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#2 Do You Need a Digital ID?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#9 PKI News
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#17 What happened with the session fixation bug?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#pkikrb PKI/KRB
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#0 the limits of crypto and authentication
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#13 ID "theft" -- so what?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#28 X.509 / PKI, PGP, and IBE Secure Email Technologies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#5 long-term GPG signing key
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#39 "Trusted" CA - Oxymoron?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#45 PKI and Non-repudiation practicalities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#14 Public key newbie question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#67 Does Diffie-Hellman  schema belong to Public Key schema family?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#16 A new e-commerce security proposal
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#30 Public key encryption
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#64 Storing digital IDs on token for use with Outlook
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#35 Public Encryption Key
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#55 PKINIT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#53 public key confusion
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#8 racf
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#47 very basic quextions: public key encryption
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#60 Single User: Password or Certificate
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#22 PKI: the end
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#26 PKI: the end
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#45 TLS-certificates and interoperability-issues sendmail/Exchange/postfix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#20 Some questions on smart cards (Software licensing using smart cards)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#0 What is a Certificate?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#36 Improving Authentication on the Internet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#0 private key encryption - doubts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#7 Signing and bundling data using certificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#25 PKI Crypto and VSAM RLS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#29 Importing CA certificate to smartcard
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#35 More Phishing scams, still no SSL being used
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#1 Creating certs for others (without their private keys)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#15 Course 2821; how this will help for CISSP exam ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#18 S/MIME Certificates from External CA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#27 how do i encrypt outgoing email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#37 public key authentication
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#45 Digital ID
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#33 X509 digital certificate for offline solution
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#39 Uploading to Asimov
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#6 X509 digital certificate for offline solution
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#9 Need a HOW TO create a client certificate for partner access
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#17 Smart Cards?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#42 Catch22. If you cannot legally be forced to sign a document etc - Tax Declaration etc etc etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#32 PKI Certificate question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#33 Digital Singatures question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#13 IPSEC with non-domain Server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#23 Logon with Digital Siganture (PKI/OCES - or what else they're called)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#54 NEW USA FFIES Guidance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#42 feasibility of certificate based login (PKI) w/o real smart card
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#32 RSA SecurID product
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#52 PGP Lame question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005v.html#5 famous literature
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#33 When *not* to sign an e-mail message?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#41 Caller ID "spoofing"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#29 X.509 and ssh
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#40 Encryption and authentication
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#79 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#0 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#80 Certificate Purpose
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#90 Certificate Purpose
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#38 Calling Out
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#58 Do soft certificates provide two factor authentication?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#79 PIN entry on digital signatures + extra token

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:51:45 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:

And key handling is, in many cases, a personal practice due to its use
for personal correspondence. In fact, there are good reasons to use it
for all correspondence as a default, but various factors have
prevented it from becoming widespread in mail clients.

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG

key handling of a private key kept "confidential and never divulged" is
more than "personal practice" ... if other parties are to "rely" on the
convention ... it has to be an accepted business process. if it is
personal preference on how the key pairs are treated/managed ... then it
is still asymmetric cryptography technology. it is when others come to
depend on ("relying parties") how the key pairs are treated/managed,
that it becomes a turst issue and business processes.

if no other entities are affected by how an individual deals with their
private key ... then it is "personal pracice" ... if others are to
depend on how an individual deals with their private key ... then it
becomes a business process.

some number of countries have even passed laws regarding the business
process of "digital signatures" ... which includes a bunch
of related stuff percolating down thru the whole public/private key
business process infrastructure.

we were called in to help word-smith the cal. state electronic signature
legislation (and later federal) ... and as a result had to go thru a
bunch of the handling from the standpoint of relied on business
processes ... numerous past posts mentioning electronic signature
(business process) http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#signature

similarly, i've mentioned that we were called to consulte with a small
client/server startup that had invented this technology called SSL and
wanted to use it for payment transactions on their server. as part of
that we had to do a lot of work related to apply a technology to
business processes that world could trust. for people to "trust" both
"digital signatures" and "SSL" there is a trust chain starts with the
business process (more than "personal practice") of keeping the private
key (of a public/private key pair) confidential and never divulged.  If
it is purely "personal practice" ... then the abilitiy of whether or not
others can place any trust in the whole infrastructure unravels.

for other drift, misc. past posts mentioning issues with trusting the
digital certificates and certification authorities related to SSL
(public/private key infrastructures)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#sslcert

and even catch22/gotcha related to SSL domain name digital certificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#catch22

have looked at a whole lot of issues for market inhibitors to
public/private key. part of it is the cost/convenience vis-a-vis
incremental security/privacy. since a large part of lack of security
involves compromised PC ... just having a software-based public/private
key operation doesn't provide a whole lot (witness that a majority of
spam in the world originates from compromised PCs ... that have been
organized in botnets).

a decade ago there were efforts to introduce hardware tokens (supporting
public/private key business processes) into the personal computer
environment as part of countermeasure to compromised PCs. some of that
was with respect to the EU FINREAD standard ... misc.  past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#finread

however, there were some poor selections made as part of some of those
introductions ... which culminated in the efforts being aborted and the
rapidly spreading opinion that hardware tokens were not practical in the
personal computing environment. some recent posts discussing various of
the issues (as part of discussions of recent Kansas City Fed paper):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#7 Dealing with the neew MA ID protection law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#10 Strings story
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#11 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#13 "Telecommunications" from '85
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#14 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#15 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#17 Open Source, Unbundling, and Future System
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#18 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#19 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#20 Donald Knuth stops paying for errata
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#21 Would you say high tech authentication gizmo's are a waste of time/money/effort?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#22 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#23 Your views on the increase in phishing crimes such as the recent problem French president Sarkozy faces
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#27 Father Of Financial Dataprocessing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#28 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#31 FC5 Special Workshop CFP: Emerging trends in Online Banking and Electronic Payments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#32 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#34 How can I tell if a keylogger got added to my PC while I was in Beijing?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#38 How do group members think the US payments business will evolve over the next 3 years?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#44 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#48 How much knowledge should a software architect have regarding software security?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#49 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fruad and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#54 Barbless
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#55 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#58 Do soft certificates provide two factor authentication?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#59 Can Smart Cards Reduce Payments Fraud and Identity Theft?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#65 Barbless
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#67 Web Security hasn't moved since 1995
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#69 ATM PIN through phone or Internet. Is it secure? Is it allowed by PCI-DSS?, Visa, MC, etc.?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#72 Alternative credit card network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#74 2008 Data Breaches: 30 Million and Counting
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#75 Alternative credit card network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#76 Multi-Factor Authentication - Moving Beyond Passwords for Security of Online Transactions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#79 PIN entry on digital signatures + extra token
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#83 Residual Risk Methodology for Single Factor Authentication

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 12:36:50 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:

But it's still public key encryption. Please don't call the
technology, itself, a business practice. That can confuse people who
read it: you remain the *only one* I've ever seen who calls public key
encryption, itself, a business practice, and your own citations of
your own writing seem to agree with my point that key handling is an
important practice, but do not refer to the technology itself as a
business practice. I've no idea why you did so: please stop.

as per the original post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG

the technology is asymmetric cryptography with a pair of keys ... what
one key encode, the other key decodes.

the business process is publishing one key of the key-pair ...  and
keeping the other key of the key-pair confidential and never divulging
it. by definition ... the attributes "public key" and "private key"
refer to the business processes of key handling ... aka the very
attributes "public" and "private" refer to the key handling business
process ... not to the asymmetric cryptography technology.

if you use the term "public" ... by defintion, you are not referring to
the cryptography technology ... you are referring to the business
process key handling.

the technology is asymmetric cryptography technology that deals with
encryption/decryption.

using the terms "public" and/or "private" ... moves past talking about
the asymmetric cryptography technology ... and are referring to key
handling business processes.

by definition the terms "public" and/or "private" refers to the business
process of handling the keys .... and has moved past the basic
asymmetric cryptography technology.

asymmetric cryptography refers to the technologies of cryptography,
encryption, etc.

public key, private key, etc ... refers to the key handling business
processes.

as in the reference to cognitive dissonance and/or semantic confusion
with regard to the term "digital signature" .. recent post:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#79 PIN entry on digital signature + extra token

... there may be similar cognitive dissonance and/or semantic confusion
with the term "public key cryptography".

"public key" refers to the key handling business processes.

asymmetric cryptography refers to the cryptography technology.

another similar cognitive dissonance and/or semantic confusion occurs
when CA is used for "certificate authority" ... when in fact, CA refers
to "certification authority" ... and a "certification authority" issues
certificates which are representation of some certification business
process.

I've gotten (similar) jabs for continuing to be about the only person
that continues to insist on the semantic correct "certification
authority" ... as opposed to the more popular "certificate authority".
The popular use tends to obscure the fact that certificates are
representations of some certification business process ... possibly
allowing certificates to actually be meaningless and fail to represent
anything.

also:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#3 GPG

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:04:12 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:

But it's still public key encryption. Please don't call the
technology, itself, a business practice. That can confuse people who
read it: you remain the *only one* I've ever seen who calls public key
encryption, itself, a business practice, and your own citations of
your own writing seem to agree with my point that key handling is an
important practice, but do not refer to the technology itself as a
business practice. I've no idea why you did so: please stop.

as per the original post:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG

from above:

asymmetric cryptography is technology where there are a pair of keys
... what one key encodes, the other key decodes. this is in contrast to
symmetric key technology where the same key is used to both encode &
decode.

public key is a business process where one of the key pair is
designated "public" and is freely published. the other key is kept
private & confidential and never divulged.

... snip ...

I referred to "asymmetric cryptography" as technology ... and i referred
to "public key" as (key handling) business processes.

I didn't use the term "public key encryption" (except when quoting some
other use) ... as means of clearly differentiating the "asymmetric
cryptography" technology and the "public key" (key handling) business
processes.

Part of this is trying to avoid the cognitive dissonance &/or semantic
confusion ... i clearly differentiated "asymmetric cryptography"
technology and "public key" (key handling) business processes.

also:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#3 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#4 GPG

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:26:46 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:

But it's still public key encryption. Please don't call the
technology, itself, a business practice. That can confuse people who
read it: you remain the *only one* I've ever seen who calls public key
encryption, itself, a business practice, and your own citations of
your own writing seem to agree with my point that key handling is an
important practice, but do not refer to the technology itself as a
business practice. I've no idea why you did so: please stop.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#3 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#4 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#5 GPG

I would assume, for somebody using the term "public key encryption"
... which i try to avoid (to minimize the semantic confusion),
...  they would semantically be referring to both "asymmetric
key encryption" technology as well as "public(/private) key" handling
business processes

... since the use of the word encryption implies the technology and
the word public implies the key handling business processes.

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:26:41 -0500

Nico Kadel-Garcia <nkadel@gmail.com> writes:

But it's still public key encryption. Please don't call the
technology, itself, a business practice. That can confuse people who
read it: you remain the *only one* I've ever seen who calls public key
encryption, itself, a business practice, and your own citations of
your own writing seem to agree with my point that key handling is an
important practice, but do not refer to the technology itself as a
business practice. I've no idea why you did so: please stop.

oh, and as mentioned in the original post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG

the use of the term "asymmetric" was somewhat chosen to differentiate
from "symmetric key encryption".

there are times when "symmetric key encryption" is referred to as
"secret key encryption" ... referring to both the key handling business
process (keeping the key secret) as well as the symmetric key encryption
technology ... somewhat analogous when "public key encryption" is used
to refer to both the key handling business process and the asymmetric
key encryption.

in the case of the public key handling business process ... "public"
refers to the business process handling of one of the key-pair being
made public. the other key (of the key-pair) is kept secret ... but is
called "private" key ... to both differentiate it from the key handling
in symmetric key encryption ... and to have a semantic connotation that
is more the opposite of "public".

in symmetric key encryption ... for "communication", the "secret" key
becomes a shared-secret ... since both ends of the communication have
to share the same "secret" key.

in most asymmetric key encryption implementations involving
"communication" ... like SSL ... a shared-secret symmetric key is
normally used (for efficiency purposes) .... but it is generated at
random. it becomes a random/temporary session key ... that is used to
encode the communication ... and then that session/secret key is encoded
with the recipient's "public key" (and the both the encoded
communication and the encoded secret key are transmitted together).

the recipient then decodes the secret key (using their private key) and
then uses the temporary/session (shared-secret) key to decode the actual
message.

the business process characteristic of not having to "share" a private
key ... is also an enabler for the "digital signature" business process.

the connotation of the "public key" handling business process ... there
is the implication of being shared ... while the connotation of the
"private key" business processes carries the implication of never being
shared ... which further differentiates it from a shared-secret
business process key handling that is found in various uses of symmetric
key encryption (futher differentiating symmetric key encryption and
asymmetric key encryption technologies).

shared-secret handling of symmetric key encryption carries some
of the same vulnerabilities involved with shared-secret
something you know authentication. the "never shared"
implication of the "private key" handling business process has also
been leveraged for improved authentication as part of "digital
signature" authentication business process.

other past posts mentiong shared-secret
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#secrets

past posts mentioning 3-factor authentication paradigm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#3factor

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#3 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#4 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#5 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#6 GPG

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:41:50 -0500

Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com> writes:

I don't understand, the poster asked who refers to it this way, besides
you.  You then went on to post 100 or so links to your own site where
you yourself referred to it as such?

semantic confusion ... one post asked the question "who calls it that"
... and i answered "I do all the time" ... reference exchange archived
here:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#1 GPG

the response to the above stated "even your own references" ... so I
replied with some of my references that did ... reference exchange
archived here:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#2 GPG

potentially you are confusing the context of two different posts?

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

GPG

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: GPG
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.security
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:10:55 -0500

Tim Greer <tim@burlyhost.com> writes:

This is what I read the poster say:

"I don't see them describing the PGP/GPG public/private key technology
as a business practice. Really, I see a lot of mentions about using
them *in* business practices, but I've never seen the technology itself
referred to as one. Or am I missing something in your references?
Seriously, you're the only one I've seen do so, and even your own
references above to your own conversations don't seem to do this."

So, perhaps the wording was confusing?  I really don't mind anyway, just
thought it was odd.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#8 GPG

this is a different semantic confusion issue ... from a post that made
an assertion that i had used the term "public key encryption" in my
original post ... which clearly isn't correct.

as referenced in these posts:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#4 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#5 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#6 GPG
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#7 GPG

there was assertion that in my original post (also archived here)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#0 GPG

that I made reference to "public key encryption" as a business process.

but as repeatedly quoted (and can be clearly seen in the original post)
and in the above references ... i clearly differentiated between
"asymmetric cryptography" as a technology and "public key" as a business
process (involving the key handling business process).

in the original post, i never used the term "public key encryption"
... although in later explanations ... i contend that "public key
encryption" would tend to imply combined reference to both the
(asymmetric) encryption technology and the (public) key handling
business process.

the analogy is the use of "symmetric key encryption" (referenced in the
original post) as being technology (and the use of "asymmetric" to
differentiate from "symmetric").

if the term "secret key encryption" were to be used, it would tend to
combine references to both the "symmetric key encryption" technology and
the "secret key" key handling business process.

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:00:19 -0500

hawk writes:

And as for GM, Ford, and Chrysler, they should probably be split into
many pieces if some kind of bailout occurs.  Standardize engine &
transmission mounts so that the final assemblers can buy engines from
multiple sources.  Some will survive, some will die.  The UAW will also
be a necessary casualty; it just isn't possible to pay their wages and
compete internationally.  UAW wages are a leftover from the US being the
only industrial power to survive WWII.  That left the US automotive
industry with a cartel, and unions were able to claim part of the cartel
profits.  That just isn't the case any more.

i remember a (wash post?) article from the 80s calling for 100% unearned
profit tax on us automobile industry. supposedly import quotas were
designed to remove (price) pressure on the industry allowing them
significantly increased profits that would be used to remake
themselves. instead the money was squandered on salaries and
benefits. w/o the competition from foreign imports ... this allowed them
to approx. double the price in short period of time (for enormously
increased profits). this had side-effect that auto price as multiple of
avg. salary went way up ... requiring change from 2-3yr loans to 5-6yr
loans. side-effect, loans could outlast the poorer quality autos.

part of foreign autos dealing with import quotas ... was they learned to
efficiently manufacture in the US

recent post in linkedin thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#77 Tell me why the taxpayer should be saving GM and Chrysler (and Ford) managers & shareholders at this stage of the game?

above includes quote from artile on long/short mismatch
http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneursfinance/2007/11/13/citigroup-suntrust-siv-ent-fin-cx_bh_1113hamiltonmatch.html

which used long/short mismatch example about auto loans outlasting the
auto. the above I also referenced in
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down

and then followup post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#82 Tell me why the taxpayer should be saving GM and Chrysler (and Ford) managers & shareholders at this stage of the game?

part of post from above:

Dumbest People' Industry Image May Cost Wagoner Job
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=ap8pS2oslvn0&refer=home

a couple quotes from above:

"There's the feeling that next to financial services, automotive execs
are the dumbest people in the world"

"It's pretty clear that management has made some pretty bad decisions
over the last 20 years"

"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American
sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Blinkenlights

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Blinkenlights
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:25:02 -0500

hawk writes:

CDO?

large number of loans packaged up somewhat to resemble securities and
selling them. technique was used two decades ago during S&L crisis to
unload questionable loans (obfuscate the underlying value).

unregulated mortgage originators used them to fund their operation
(regulated financial institutions had funded mortgages out of deposits
and kept them on their books).  one of the side-effects was that the
mortgage orginators could (also) unload mortgages off their books
... eliminating any incentive to pay attention to mortgage quality.

this was further aggrevated by being able to get triple-A rating on the
CDOs (greatly expanding the institutions that would buy the instruments
and further obfuscating underlying value). recent congressional
testimony claimed that both the mortgage originators and the rating
agencies knew the toxic CDOs weren't worth triple-A rating ... but the
rating agencies were being paid to give them triple-A ratings anyway
(the word "fraud" was periodically mentioned). when it all started to
unravel ... this contributed to loss of confidence in ratings and
freezing up some of the markets where investors were dependent on
ratings (earlier this yr, warren buffet stepped into to the muni-bond
market to back muni-bonds as countermeasure to loss of confidence in
ratings).

the huge influx of funds provided by toxic CDOs allowed speculators (in
conjunction with mortgage originators no longer had to pay attention to
quality) to obtain undocumented, no-down-payment, 1-2% interest only
ARMS (planning on flipping before rate adjusted, possibley 2000% ROI or
better) ...  basically enabling the home-owner market to be treated like
the unregulated stock market of the 20s. The huge amount of speculation
creating enormous, ugly price pimple/boil (plot avg. home prices and
prices as percent of avg. salary back to 70s, current pimple/boil as
only partially deflated).

Large number of institutions, retirement funds, etc ... were buying
these triple-A rated toxic CDOs (many that wouldn't have dealt with them
if it hadn't been for the triple-A rating). When it started to unravel,
institutions were getting them off their books for 22cents on the dollar
(and taking tens of billions in losses).

There were a couple people on CSPAN yesterday explaining how several
gov. operations saw the problem over the past decade and attempted to
take actions to prevent current crisis ... but that large financial
institutions heavily lobbied the current administration to not interfer
in all the activity.

For random other topic drift ... broadcast of a congressional hearing
yesterday on CSPAN ... had treasury undersecretary and a congressman
grilling about money laundering. Apparently the significant relaxing of
regulation enforcement has resulted in enormous amounts of drug money
being laundered through mortgages (large number of mortgages are
obtained and payments are made using drug money ... then property sold).

long-winded, decade-old post discussing some of the current problems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#riskm

misc. past posts mentioning toxic CDOs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007t.html#50 Newsweek article--baby boomers and computers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#25 Newsweek article--baby boomers and computers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#66 As Expected, Ford Falls From 2nd Place in U.S. Sales
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#75 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#87 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#85 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#70 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#1 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#10 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#14 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#17 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#32 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#46 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#51 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#52 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#53 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#57 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#71 Bush - place in history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#75 Bush - place in history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#77 Bush - place in history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#86 Banks failing to manage IT risk - study
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#89 Bush - place in history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#94 Bush - place in history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#3 It's Too Darn Hot
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#4 CDOs subverting Boyd's OODA-loop
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#11 Hannaford case exposes holes in law, some say
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#16 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#32 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#36 Lehman sees banks, others writing down $400 bln
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#44 Fixing finance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#51 IBM CEO's remuneration last year ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#52 IBM CEO's remuneration last year ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#59 Credit crisis could cost nearly $1 trillion, IMF predicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#62 Credit crisis could cost nearly $1 trillion, IMF predicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#64 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#67 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#1 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#8a Using Military Philosophy to Drive High Value Sales
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#28 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#32 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#48 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#49 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#51 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#89 Credit Crisis Timeline
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#90 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#4 A Merit based system of reward -Does anybody (or any executive) really want to be judged on merit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#30 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#64 Is the credit crunch a short term aberation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#77 Do you think the change in bankrupcy laws has exacerbated the problems in the housing market leading more people into forclosure?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#104 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#3 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#9 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#12 To: Graymouse -- Ireland and the EU, What in the H... is all this  about?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#18 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#22 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#23 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#38 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#40 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#46 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#48 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#64 lack of information accuracy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#66 lack of information accuracy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#67 lack of information accuracy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#68 lack of information accuracy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#69 lack of information accuracy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#71 lack of information accuracy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#84 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#1 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#6 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#10 Why do Banks lend poorly in the sub-prime market? Because they are not in Banking!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#11 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#12 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#13 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#14 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#16 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#19 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#20 IBM's 2Q2008 Earnings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#23 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#27 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#28 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#33 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#37 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#42 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#44 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#67 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#70 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#12 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#15 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#16 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#17 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#26 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#75 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#76 When risks go south: FM&FM to be nationalized
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#80 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#83 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#91 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#92 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#95 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#96 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#97 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#99 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#0 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#2 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#3 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#12 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#14 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#19 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#21 Michigan industry
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#23 Michigan industry
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#24 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#25 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#33 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#37 Success has many fathers, but failure has the US taxpayer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#40 Success has many fathers, but failure has the US taxpayer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#42 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#44 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#49 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#56 VMware Chief Says the OS Is History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#69 Another quiet week in finance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#73 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#74 Why can't we analyze the risks involved in mortgage-backed securities?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#78 Isn't it the Federal Reserve role to oversee the banking system??
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#88 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#94 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#95 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#15 Financial Crisis - the result of uncontrolled Innovation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#18 Once the dust settles, do you think Milton Friedman's economic theories will be laid to rest
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#19 What's your view of current global financial / economical situation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#26 SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley Act), is this really followed and worthful considering current Financial Crisis?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#27 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#31 The human plague
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#37 The human plague
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#39 The human plague
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#42 The human plague
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#43 The human plague
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#45 The human plague
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#51 Why are some banks failing, and others aren't?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#52 Why is sub-prime crisis of America called the sub-prime crisis?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#62 Would anyone like to draw a diagram of effects or similar for the current "credit crisis"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#65 Can the financial meltdown be used to motivate sustainable development in order to achieve sustainable growth and desired sustainability?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#68 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#71 Why is sub-prime crisis of America called the sub-prime crisis?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#74 Would anyone like to draw a diagram of effects or similar for the current "credit crisis"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#75 In light of the recent financial crisis, did Sarbanes-Oxley fail to work?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#78 Who murdered the financial system?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#80 Can we blame one person for the financial meltdown?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#82 Greenspan testimony and securization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#3 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#47 In Modeling Risk, the Human Factor Was Left Out
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#60 Did sub-prime cause the financial mess we are in?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#70 Is there any technology that we are severely lacking in the Financial industry?

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Blinkenlights

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Blinkenlights
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:28:58 -0500

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:

For random other topic drift ... broadcast of a congressional hearing
yesterday on CSPAN ... had treasury undersecretary and a congressman
grilling about money laundering. Apparently the significant relaxing of
regulation enforcement has resulted in enormous amounts of drug money
being laundered through mortgages (large number of mortgages are
obtained and payments are made using drug money ... then property sold).

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlights

one of the statements made during the hearing was the possibility of
prosecuting the financial institutions involved under RICO
(... including three times actual damages).

RICO has been used to prosecute multiple parties by showing criminal
conspiracy.  There have also been suggestion for RICO prosecution of the
mortgage originators and rating agencies involved in giving triple-A
ratings to toxic CDOs (congressional testimony calling it fraud).

recent posts mentioning relaxing regulation enforcement:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#78 Who murdered the financial system?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#80 Can we blame one person for the financial meltdown?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#24 Why not build a shared services infrastructure to support the banking sector?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#51 Barbless
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#60 Did sub-prime cause the financial mess we are in?

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Web Security hasn't moved since 1995

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Web Security hasn't moved since 1995
Date: November 17, 2008
Blog: Greater IBM

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#67 Web Security hasn't moved since 1995
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#78 Web Security hasn't moved since 1995

Delays in DNS security baffling: Mockapetris
http://security.cbronline.com/news/delays_in_dns_security_baffling_mockapetris_171108

pure trivia, this person worked at the science center in the early 70s

one of the major motivations for SSL was perceived weaknesses in the
domain name infrastructure.

the major use of SSL in the world today is part of this thing called
electronic commerce as part of hiding information in the transaction
... x9.59 eliminates the need to hide the information (so eliminates
the major use of SSL).

DNSSEC addresses weaknesses in the domain name infrastructure
... further "weakening" the justification for SSL. lots of past posts
discussing DNSSEC impacting justification for SSL
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#catch22

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 17:37:33 -0500

kkt <kkt@zipcon.net> writes:

I am dubious that they could servive as smaller companies.  The trend
in recent decades has been toward larger companies, because only large
companies have the resources to develop new vehicles.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)

... or it is easier to justify large executive compensation in larger
companies ... there is enormous amount of personal self-interest going
on.

larger companies tend to develop entrenched, fossilized bureaucracies
... nearly the opposite of Boyd, OODA-loop, agile, adaptable operations
... lots of past posts/references to Boyd and/or OODA-loops:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html

while various regulation enforcement may have been relaxed .. GAO has
been doing database of the increasing number of public company financial
filings that are being restated (in spite of SOX). basically the numbers
are fiddled, the executives take bonuses based on inflated numbers and
then later the numbers may be restated (and the executives don't have to
forfeit the bonuses).

recent post referring to study of (270) US public companies that had
realized that they were being mismanaged because of executive focus on
fiddling quarterly numbers ... and redid the executive bonus plan in
attempt to remove the motivation (and refocus on corporate health &
vitality):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?

past posts referring to article about ratio of avg. executive to
avg. worker compensation is now 400:1, up significantly after having
been 20:1 ... and compared to 10:1 in much of the rest of the world.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#73 Should The CEO Have the Lowest Pay In Senior Management?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#24 To: Graymouse -- Ireland and the EU, What in the H... is all this about?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#76 lack of information accuracy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#71 Cormpany sponsored insurance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#25 Taxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#33 Taxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#53 Are family businesses unfair competition?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#93 What do you think are the top characteristics of a good/effective leader in an organization? Do you feel these characteristics are learned or innate to an individual?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#2 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#58 Traditional Approach Won't Take Businesses Far Places

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 21:45:34 -0500

"Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

Anyone who's trying to cut costs, especially if they're thinking
short-term.  Remember, the purpose of quality control is to keep
quality under control.  If it rises too high, it might increase costs
and reduce the managers' bonuses.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#14 realtors (and GM, too!)

... there were some jokes in the 70s about disposable cars ... promoted
getting new one every 2-3 yrs. after import quotas, in very short period
of time, price was nearly doubled as percent of avg. salary.  that
necessitated doubling period of loans ... which had the downside of
loans lasting longer than some cars.

there have been past discussions mentioning that agility and ability to
rapidly adapt to changing conditions may be more important. large
buearacracies can encourage large number of individuals going through
there processes purely by rote w/o actually needing to understand what
they were doing. actually understanding promotes being able to rapidly
adapt and can have side-effect of improving quality (possibly even
lowering costs).

some quality control is about catching/rejecting defects (which can
increase costs) ... more intelligent quality control is not having
defects in the 1st place (which can reduce costs).

lots of news articles from earlier this year about toyota/gm sales
running neck&neck and that gm might be retaining "top" position ...
those stories tended to avoid the issue that gm was loosing money on
every sale:

"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American
sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...

misc past posts:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#41 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#43 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#29 Offshore IT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006m.html#49 The Pankian Metaphor (redux)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#31 The Future of CPUs: What's After Multi-Core?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#32 Toyota set to lift crown from GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#34 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#52 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#13 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007q.html#4 Horrid thought about Politics, President Bush, and Democrats
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#28 As Expected, Ford Falls From 2nd Place in U.S. Sales
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#48 As Expected, Ford Falls From 2nd Place in U.S. Sales
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#65 As Expected, Ford Falls From 2nd Place in U.S. Sales
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#79 Rotary phones
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#80 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#83 Education ranking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#84 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#85 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#86 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#54 windows time service
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#55 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#56 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#58 How does ATTACH pass address of ECB to child?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#59 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#74 Too much change opens up financial fault lines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#75 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#76 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#0 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#1 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#4 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#5 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#6 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#7 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#8 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#10 Usefulness of bidirectional read/write?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#11 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#12 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#13 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#14 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#15 was: 1975 movie "Three Days of the Condor" tech stuff
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#16 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#17 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#18 Usefulness of bidirectional read/write?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#19 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#20 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#21 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#22 Toyota Beats GM in Global Production
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#24 Job ad for z/OS systems programmer trainee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#25 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#43 Current Officers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#44 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#45 Young mainframers' group gains momentum
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#46 Toyota Beats GM in Global Production
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#55 Kernels
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#56 Toyota Beats GM in Global Production
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#62 Morten Reistad? Marine Cables to Mid East cut?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#63 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#65 No Glory for the PDP-15
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#66 Toyota Beats GM in Global Production
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#67 What happened to resumable instructions?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#68 Toyota Beats GM in Global Production
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#69 Toyota Beats GM in Global Production
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#70 Fixing US broadband: $100 billion for fiber to every home
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#71 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#86 Does ARP Belong to Layer 2 Or Layer 3 OSI Reference Model???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#87 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#88 CPU time differences for the same job
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#89 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#90 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#91 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#0 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#3 Govt demands password to personal computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#4 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#5 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#6 How Safe Are Your Personal Records In The Hands Of Government Officials?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#7 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#8 Govt demands password to personal computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#9 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#10 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#11 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#20 more on (the new 40+ yr old) virtualization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#21 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#22 Toyota Beats GM in Global Production
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#25 Remembering The Search For Jim Gray, A Year Later
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#26 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#29 was: 1975 movie "Three Days of the Condor" tech stuff
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#30 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#31 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#84 The hands-free way to steal a credit card
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#85 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#49 How do OTP tokens work?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008f.html#50 Toyota's Value Innovation: The Art of Tension
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#21 To the horror of some in the Air Force
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#22 Toyota takes 1Q world sales lead from General Motors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#50 update on old (GM) competitiveness thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#21 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#52 Are family businesses unfair competition?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#6 Michigan industry
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#82 Tell me why the taxpayer should be saving GM and Chrysler (and Ford) managers & shareholders at this stage of the game?

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:30:48 -0500

Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:

Much of this management behavior has been exacerbated by Wall Street
(whose competence we are now admiring) and their relentless pressure for
quarterly profits instead of investing for the long haul.  I really
don't know what the solution is for this one.  Auto management, you can
cut the cords of their golden parachutes and push them out the window.
But what do you do about the financiers?

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#14 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#15 realtors (and GM, too!)

congressional hearings this morning starts out with chairman of the
committee going into detail about what was specified in the $700b
bailout bill ... and wanting to know why several things, required by the
legislation, weren't being done.

the response seems to net out that the money goes to prop up those
financial institutions and their executives ...  which promotes "moral
hazard" (rewarding the worst behavior).

there was also somewhat of a semantic disconnect ... there were lots of
references to the "financial crisis" has been responsible for a variety
of things ...  totally obfuscating the fact that the financial
institutions were responsible for the "financial crisis" ... obfuscating
the causes of the "financial crisis".

rather than the executives of the institutions being the cause of the
distress of those institutions as well as the "financial crisis" ...
there is metamorphis to the "financial crisis" (abstraction) being the
cause of the distress of those institutions.

this is in contrast to the business school article from last spring
that estimated that 1000 executives are responsible for approx. 80% of
the current crisis (and it would go a long way to fixing the situation
if the gov. could figure out how those individuals could loose their
jobs). past post:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#32 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#4 A Merit based system of reward -Does anybody (or any executive) really want to be judged on merit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#37 Success has many fathers, but failure has the US taxpayer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#65 Whether, in our financial crisis, the prize for being the biggest liar is
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#69 Another quiet week in finance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#74 Why can't we analyze the risks involved in mortgage-backed securities?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#95 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#15 Financial Crisis - the result of uncontrolled Innovation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#26 SOX (Sarbanes-Oxley Act), is this really followed and worthful considering current Financial Crisis?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#28 Does anyone get the idea that those responsible for containing this finanical crisis are doing too much?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#35 The human plague
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#80 Can we blame one person for the financial meltdown?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

realtors (and GM, too!)

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: realtors (and GM, too!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:40:43 -0500

Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:

The Industrial Revolution brought the concept of workers as
interchangeable cogs.  Owners rented them as cheaply as possible and
worked them until they broke, then threw them away.

There are two solutions to that problem.  One is government control.
The other is a "private" solution, unions.  I'm pretty sure you don't
like the first.  When the day comes that managers have as much concern
for each individual worker as they do for their own personal piece of
the pie, then we won't need unions.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#14 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#15 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#16 realtors (and GM, too!)

I've periodically repeated the story Boyd used in his briefings about US
entry into WW2. Basically at entry ... there was a need to mobilize
large forces that had little training and/or experience. As a result to
leverage the small pool of experience was to create a very rigid,
top-down, command & control infrastructure. much of the war was
conducted using overwhelming resources to win by attrition ... some
cases with 10:1 resource superiority. One example he used was mass
production of Sherman tanks ... in tank battles with Germans ... there
was almost 10:1 kill ratio (but US could still prevail with enormous
resource advantage ... although there was morale problem with Sherman
crews).

The point of the story in the briefing was his observation was that
those young officers (that got their training in how to operate large
organizations) were starting to permeate corporate america management
(with philosiphy only the people at the very top had any idea what they
were doing). This scenario has also been used to explain the enormous
explosion in the ratio (400:1) of executive compensation to worker
compensation (up significantly from the earlier 20:1 ... and 10:1 in
much of the rest of the world).

lots of past references/posts mentioning Boyd and/or OODA-loops
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html

as previously pointed out, foreign car companies have managed to
succesfuly adapt to building in the US:

"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American
sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...

also this reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#6 Michigan industry

one of the references in the above ...

Honda reports record profit
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,391046,00.html

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?
Date: November 18, 2008
Blog: Bond Markets

re:
http://www.linkedin.com/answers/financial-markets/bond-markets/MKT_BON/367095-12868341

legislative or executive??

congressional hearings this morning starts out with chairman of the
committee going into detail about what was specified in the $700b
bailout bill ... and wanting to know why several things, required by
the legislation, weren't being done.

the response seems to net out that the money goes to prop up financial
institutions and their executives ... which possibly promotes "moral
hazard" (rewarding bad behavior).

there was also a lot of statements about financial crisis was
responsible for the distress to the financial institutions. this is in
contrast to business school article from last spring that made the
statement that 1000 executives are responsible for approx. 80% of the
"current" mess (and it would go a long way to fixing the problems if
the gov. could figure out how they could loose their jobs). so the
situation morphs from

"1000 executives caused most of the distress to financial institutions
resulting in the financial crisis"

to

"financial crisis caused the distress to the financial institutions"

today also has lots of legislative discussions about bail-outs for
automobile industry.

one of the issues is that in the wake of import quotas (long ago and
far away), foreign car companies learned how to efficiently
manufacture in the US (which provides some contrast to US
companies). so a couple recent articles:

Dumbest People' Industry Image May Cost Wagoner Job
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=ap8pS2oslvn0&refer=home

a couple quotes from above:

"There's the feeling that next to financial services, automotive execs
are the dumbest people in the world"

"It's pretty clear that management has made some pretty bad decisions
over the last 20 years"

"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American
sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...

and

Honda reports record profit
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,391046,00.html

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Collateralized debt obligations (CDOs)

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Collateralized debt obligations (CDOs)
Date: November 19, 2008
Blog: Financial Regulation

re:
http://www.linkedin.com/answers/finance-accounting/financial-regulation/FIN_FRG/366145-8012904

CDOs were used two decades ago during the S&L crisis to obfuscate the
underlying values (sell off for more than they are worth).

Home owner market used to be semi-regulated with regulated financial
institutions making loans based on deposits. Unregulated mortgage
originators could leverage packaging mortgages as CDOs as source of
funds.

A couple weeks ago in congressional hearings on CDOs, testimony was
that both mortgage originators and rating agencies knew that toxic
CDOs weren't worth triple-A ratings but mortgage originators were
paying the rating agencies to give triple-A ratings to toxic CDOs
anyway ("fraud" was used to describe the activity). Being able to
unload every mortgage (regardless of quality) as triple-A rated toxic
CDO; 1) greatly increased market for toxic CDOs, 2) greatly increased source
of funds for toxic CDOs, and 3) eliminated any motivation to manage loan
quality (source of funds, contributed to greatly increased speculation
in home owner market).

On the institution side buying these (toxic CDO, packaged)
mortgages .... the institutions were 1) playing long/short mismatch
and 2) heavily leveraging. Playing long/short mismatch (alone) has
been known to take down institutions for centuries (in this case, even
if the toxic CDOs had been worth their triple-A ratings).
Comments were that Bear-Stearn and Lehman had marginal chance of
surviving playing long/short mismatch. This was further aggravated
with heavy leverage ... in some cases leveraging capital 40-80 times
in buying triple-A rated toxic CDOs.

article from year ago about playing long/short mismatch (including
transactions being carried offbalance ... and possibly may still be
lurking)
http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneursfinance/2007/11/13/citigroup-suntrust-siv-ent-fin-cx_bh_1113hamiltonmatch.html

decade old article from SanFran FED on long/short mismatch
http://www.frbsf.org/econrsrch/wklyltr/2000/el2000-26.html

SOX required SEC to also do something about rating agencies ... but
little appeared to have happened ... other than this study from
Jan2003
http://www.sec.gov/news/studies/credratingreport0103.pdf

other recent posts mentioning SEC SOX credit rating report:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#68 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#71 Why is sub-prime crisis of America called the sub-prime crisis?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#8 Global Melt Down

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

How is Subprime crisis impacting other Industries?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: How is Subprime crisis impacting other Industries?
Date: November 19, 2008
Blog: Hedge Funds

re:
http://www.linkedin.com/answers/financial-markets/hedge-funds/MKT_HDG/368470-18461094

Unregulated mortgage originators found a large untapped source of
funds by packaging mortgages as triple-A rated toxic CDOs. Since they
could unload ever mortgage they could write w/o regard to quality (as
triple-A rated toxic CDOs) ... the question is what kind of mortgages
had little activity. In the past, there was limited source of funds
for writing low-quality mortgages. With triple-A rated toxic CDOs,
funds for this market became almost unlimited. This nearly unlimited
source of funds became very attractive for speculators;
no-documentation, no-downpayment, 1percent, interest only ARMs could
be leveraged for 2000% or better ROI (planning on flipping the
property before the rate reset).

Subprime had originally been targeted at 1st time, low-income home
buyers. However, speculators could leverage "sub-prime" all across the
home-owner market. The speculation, in addition to greatly inflating
home prices, made it appear like demand was much larger that it
actually was. As a result, construction companies took out loans to
build large number of additional houses & stripmalls for the apparent
big upswing in demand (anticipating they would sell the houses &
stripmalls and pay off the loans). Companies that supplied material
for building, took out loans to stock the additional supplies. Cities
& towns sold bonds to build all the infrastructure services for all
the new housing projects (anticipating all the additional real estate
taxes when the properties sold ... would fund the bonds).

When the speculation bubble burst, the properties went unsold
... hitting all the construction companies (and their loans), the
building material supply companies (& their loans), and the
municipalities (and their bonds). Bursting of the speculation bubble
then starts to spread throughout much of the economy.

CDOs were used two decades ago during S&L crisis to obfuscate
underlying value and sell for more than they were worth.

Congressional hearings a couple weeks ago looked at toxic CDOs
getting triple-A ratings. Testimony was that both mortgage originators
and rating agencies knew that the toxic CDOs weren't worth
triple-A rating ... but the mortgage originators were paying for the
triple-A ratings. The word "fraud" was periodicly used. This
enormously increased the market for these instruments (and the source
of funds).

On the institution side buying all these triple-A rated toxic CDOs
... there was questionable behavior ... they were playing both 1)
long/short mismatch ... which has been known for centuries to take
down institutions and 2) capital leveraged 40-80 times buying triple-A
rated toxic CDOs.

All of the individual characteristics had been around before the
triple-A ratings ... but the availability of funds was severely
limited. Getting the triple-A ratings on toxic CDOs contributed
to all the isolated hotbeds of greed and corruption to turn into a
firestorm.

some past posts mentioning congressional hearings into rating agencies:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#78 Who murdered the financial system?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#80 Can we blame one person for the financial meltdown?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#3 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#9 Do you believe a global financial regulation is possible?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#47 In Modeling Risk, the Human Factor Was Left Out
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#12 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#16 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#18 A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#19 Collateralized debt obligations (CDOs)

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

NYCE Revives "Safe Debit" Name for PINless Debit Test Set for '09

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: NYCE Revives "Safe Debit" Name for PINless Debit Test Set for '09
Date: November 19, 2008
Blog: Hedge Funds

NYCE Revives ‘Safe Debit' Name for PINless Debit Test Set for '09
http://www.digitaltransactions.net/newsstory.cfm?newsid=1983

In the past, there was market inhibitor to some of these types of
products with merchants expecting lower discount rate because fraud
was lower and financial institutions wanting to charge more for
"safer" products.

some related discussion ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#12

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Is Pride going to decimate the auto Industry?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Is Pride going to decimate the auto Industry?
Date: November 20, 2008
Blog: Equity Markets

re:
http://www.linkedin.com/answers/financial-markets/equity-markets/MKT_EQU/369280-564729

Dumbest People' Industry Image May Cost Wagoner Job
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=ap8pS2oslvn0&refer=home

a couple quotes from above:

"There's the feeling that next to financial services, automotive execs
are the dumbest people in the world"

"It's pretty clear that management has made some pretty bad decisions
over the last 20 years"

"Toyota generated pretax profit of $922 per vehicle on North American
sales in 2007, while GM lost $729"

... snip ...

possibly 30yrs or more?

there was article (possibly washington post?) 25-30 yrs suggesting a
100% unearned profit tax on the US auto industry ... in the wake of
some prior gov. support programs ... where billions were suppose to
have gone to remaking the industry ... and it was never spent that
way.

related answer:

Tell me why the taxpayer should be saving GM and Chrysler (and Ford) managers & shareholders at this stage of the game?
http://www.linkedin.com/answers/management/change-management/MGM_CMG/363484-28901615

and also archived here:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#77 Tell me why the taxpayer should be saving GM and Chrysler (and Ford) managers & shareholders at this stage of the game?

At least since the import quotas, there have been a number of studies
about how the industry can be more agile and efficient. I attended
some of the C4 meetings, circa 1990 ... which was looking at heavily
leveraging IT technologies to improve agility (radically reduce
elapsed time from inception to rolling off the line) and
efficiency. turns out there is also some relationship between quality,
agility, and efficiency ... since all tend to improve when there is
better understanding of all aspects.

oh ... from a long running thread on the subject in 2000 ... one of my
particularly long-winded posts ... including several gov. & industry
URL references on the subject (several have since gone 404, so I've had
to resort to the wayback machine)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#43

some additional from the "why the taxpayer should be saving ..."
question ... also archived here
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#82

for another facet regarding the problems ... there were a number of
articles in the 90s related to the downward spiral of the US education
system.

One was that foreign auto makers (establishing plants in the US) were
requiring junior college degrees in order to get workers with high
school education.

From 1990 census information ... there was articles that half of US
manufacturing workers were "subsidized" (i.e. worker benefits exceeded
the value of their work) and half of 18 yr olds were functionally
illiterate. There were calculations at the time ... assuming trends
continued ... that by 2020 ... only 3percent of US workers would NOT
be subsidized (i.e. value of work at least equivalent to benefits
received).

older reference to 94-98 international literacy survey
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#38

recent reports have US education ranking at or near the bottom of
industrial nations ... a couple recent posts:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#78 Education ranking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#3 America's Prophet of Fiscal Doom

misc. past posts mentioning the suggestion for 100% unearned profit tax:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#41 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#52 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#2 Internet today -- what's left for hobbiests
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#23 auto industry
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#17 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#20 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006m.html#49 The Pankian Metaphor (redux)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#33 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#72 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#88 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#11 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#24 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#28 As Expected, Ford Falls From 2nd Place in U.S. Sales
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#39 competitiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#84 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Newsgroups dying?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Newsgroups dying?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:38:47 -0500

Mensanator <mensanator@aol.com> writes:

So, you were in the oil business? Making windfall profits

one of the suggestions that i recently heard ... was for the oil
industry use its windfall profits to bail out the US car builders
.... since a big source of those profits were generated by those
automobiles.

some recent posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#10 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#18 A few months of legislative vacuum - is this a good thing?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#22 Is Pride going to decimate the auto Industry?

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

The madness of 'king cores'

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: The madness of 'king cores'
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:51:30 -0500

The madness of 'king cores' 80-core servers will add-up to nothing
without hypervisors
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/11/20/many_cored_processors_and_software/

from above:

Intel's very recently announced Core i7, the seventh iteration of its
Pentium technology using the Nehalem micro-architecture, has four cores
each running two threads. Stick that in a 4-socket server and you have
Hyper-V heaven: 16 CPUs and 32 threads and say 5 VMs/core giving us 80
VMs in one server.

... snip ...

and ...

Research on hypervisors for massive multicore systems
http://www.hipeac.net/node/2157
Is Virtualization the Future of Supercomputing?
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/netsys/article.php/3786321/Is+Virtualization+the+Future+of+Supercomputing?.htm

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Cybercrime Could Be As Destructive As Credit Crisis

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Cybercrime Could Be As Destructive As Credit Crisis
Date: November 20, 2008
Blog: Financial Crime Risk, Fraud and Security

Cybercrime Could Be As Destructive As Credit Crisis
http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/1601931/cybercrime_could_be_as_destructive_as_credit_crisis/index.html

from above:

According to some of the world's top crime experts, cybercrime could
cause as much trouble as the recent credit crisis if regulations are
not improved.

... snip ...

The article pegs cybercrime at $100b/annum. A couple yrs ago, there
were articles that cybercrime had exceeded drug crime ... which at the
time was around $500b/annum.

There have been a number of articles that financial industry is
adverse to publicity about exploits; this supposedly was one of the
main justifications for breach notification legislation.

recent posts mentioning data breach notification legislation:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#8 Hannaford case exposes holes in law, some say
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#21 Worst Security Threats?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#42 Security Breaches
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#76 Security Awareness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#101 We're losing the battle
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#39 What is "timesharing" (Re: OS X Finder windows vs terminal window weirdness)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#55 With all the highly publicised data breeches and losses, are we all wasting our time?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#66 With all the highly publicised data breeches and losses, are we all wasting our time?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#70 Why SSNs Are Not Appropriate for Authentication and when, where and why should you offer/use it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#73 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#82 Fraud in financial institution
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#16 Is Information Security driven by compliance??
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#6 SECURITY and BUSINESS CONTINUITY ..... Where they fit in?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#7 Dealing with the neew MA ID protection law

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Blinkenlights

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Blinkenlights
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:36:07 -0500

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#12 Blinkenlights

from (today) 20nov2008:

Citigroup falls as much as 25%, shares trade below $5
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/citigroup-falls-much-25-shares/story.aspx?guid={A2ADD6E6-0827-46B0-9BB4-5346225A7562}

from 18nov2008:

Citigroup Falls to 13-Year Low on Loss Prediction
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aA7RGPCILo88&refer=news

long-winded, decade-old post discussing some of the current
problems. also mentions that citigroup in the S&L crisis was almost
taken down by adjustable rate mortgages and needed private bailout to
continue functioning:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#riskm

financials playing long/short mismatch (known for centuries to take
down institutions) ... (SIV) off-balance-sheet & citigroup major player
(Nov2007):
http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneursfinance/2007/11/13/citigroup-suntrust-siv-ent-fin-cx_bh_1113hamiltonmatch.html

Whither Citigroup's $1.1 Trillion of Off Balance Sheet Assets? (jul2008)
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2008/07/wither-citigroups-11-trillion-of-off.html?showComment=1216055460000

from above:

At an investor presentation in May, Citigroup Inc. Chief Executive
Officer Vikram Pandit said shrinking the bank's $2.2 trillion balance
sheet....was a cornerstone of his turnaround plan.  Nowhere mentioned
in the accompanying 66-page handout were the additional $1.1 trillion
of assets that New York-based Citigroup keeps off its books...

... snip ...

pbs program that citigroup was the major player in repeal of
Glass-Steagall, which had been passed in the aftermath of '29 crash to
keep the unregulated, risky investment banking separate from
safety&soundness of regulated financial institutions:

the wall street fix
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

TOPS-10

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOPS-10
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:22:02 -0500

Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> writes:

Given that programmer time is becoming increasingly more expesive than
CPU time, CISC looks to have been the better choice.

some RISC meetings (circa '76), RISC was about hardware/software
trade-offs ... lots of past risc, 801, romp, rios, fort knox, etc
posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

my past comments was that RISC appeared to swing the pendulum to the
opposite extreme from the (failed) future system project (where lots &
lots of stuff was being pushed down into the hardware). misc. past posts
mentioning FS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

compiler technology (pl.8) and monitor technology was to more than
offset the added complexity moved out of the hardware (compared to
FS). for instance, RISC didn't have any hardware protection domains,
pl.8 compiler would only generate correct code ... and the system loader
would only load (correct) pl.8 programs. This had side-effect of
eliminating overhead of making kernel calls ... since things would be
performed either with inline code and/or direct library calls.

later, some of advanced pl.8 programming technology started to permeate
some of the other language compilers.

recent post with some references to quotes about FS effort
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#66 Open Source, Unbundling, and Future System
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#17 Open Source, Unbundling, and Future System

my wife was recently reminiscing about badgering/lobbying to get
transferred to FS project (because it was dealing with all the latest,
new, really neat ideas). FS had a number of different "executives"
responsible for specific areas ... and she eventually got assigned to
reporting directly to one of the area executives. She was commenting
about going through the documents line-by-line ... and there would be
architecture references to some other area of the machine ... and
going to that area description and not finding anything. She made
herself something of a pest complaining about whole missing areas of
machine specification.

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

Blinkenlights

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Blinkenlights
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:34:45 -0500

jmfbahciv <jmfbahciv@aol> writes:

Now double-check the people appointed in the treasury department
and the Fed Reserve Board and the regional boards and see who
were from Citi-bank.  Note the years they were appointed and
correlate with mess events.  I was doing this with Sandy Weill
and a couple other people in the 90s.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#26 Blinkenlights

business TV news show just now discussing some number of the current
problems ... including citibank. comment was that citibank wasn't worth
anything but it was too big to allow to fail (as opposed to FDIC
liquidating stuff, stock disappears and resources parceled out to other
banks).

misc. past posts referencing news stories that citigroup was going
to win the write-down sweepstakes (presumably because citigroup had
the largest balance of toxic-CDOs, SIV, off-balance-sheet, etc)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#12 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#32 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#36 Lehman sees banks, others writing down $400 bln
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#57 Credit crisis could cost nearly $1 trillion, IMF predicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#0 independent appraisers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#1 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#28 subprime write-down sweepstakes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#22 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#1 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#12 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#41 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#67 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#70 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#80 Fraud due to stupid failure to test for negative
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#95 Blinkylights

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

TOPS-10

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOPS-10
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:16:36 -0500

Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:

my past comments was that RISC appeared to swing the pendulum to the
opposite extreme from the (failed) future system project (where lots &
lots of stuff was being pushed down into the hardware). misc. past posts
mentioning FS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#futuresys

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#27 TOPS-10

oops,
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

for another source of some FS discussion ... computer oral
history of richard case:
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/Case_Richard/Case_Richard_1.oral_history.2006.102658006.pdf

besides refs in recent post:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#66 Open Source, Unbundling, and Future System

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

TOPS-10

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOPS-10
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:34:06 -0500

Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> writes:

Only if you don't program in assembler.  Also the VAX "CISC"
instruction set may have been complex, but it was well-thought out and
orthogonal. It's easy to pick the exact instruction to do what you
need, no unnecessary loads and stores, no work-arounds for missing
instructions, no need to insert delay slots in the pipeline.

RISC: The Processor Architecture of the Future
http://www.starfighter.acornarcade.com/mysite/articles/RISCessay.html

from above:

In a discussion of the relative difficulty of pipelining CISC
instructions, Mashey outlines the many stages in the execution of the
complex VAX instruction "ADDL @(R1)+, @(R1)+, @(R2)+". In summary, his
observations were as follows:

... snip ...

which goes on to discuss how hard to get pipeline performance.

recent posts in thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#27 TOPS-10
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#29 TOPS-10

--
40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar70

TOPS-10

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOPS-10
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:23:01 -0500

timcaffrey@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) writes:

Funny thing is, Burroughs Large Systems (now Unisys Libra series) used a
similar approach (trusted code, no overhead kernel calls, etc), 10 years
before IBM even started the FS project.  I guess Honeywell did something
similar with Multics(?).

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#27 TOPS-10
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#29 TOPS-10
h