List of Archived Posts

2000 Newsgroup Postings (03/06 - 05/14)

"Mainframe" Usage
"Mainframe" Usage
"Mainframe" Usage
"Mainframe" Usage
"Mainframe" Usage
ascii to binary
ascii to binary
"Mainframe" Usage
"Mainframe" Usage
"Mainframe" Usage
"Mainframe" Usage
Fairshare scheduling
Proletarians of the World Wide Web, unite against ICANN!
Will Radius be obsolute if implement 2-token authentications?
How many Megaflops and when?
How many Megaflops and when?
ooh, a real flamewar :)
ooh, a real flamewar :)
Tysons Corner, Virginia
How many Megaflops and when?
How many Megaflops and when?
ooh, a real flamewar :)
Tysons Corner, Virginia
How many Megaflops and when?
How many Megaflops and when?
S-P-F (was Mainframe operating systems)
Tysons Corner, Virginia
Win32 Memory consumption.
20th March 2000
20th March 2000
20th March 2000
20th March 2000
20th March 2000
Those who do not learn from history...
VMS vs. Unix (was: Why are Suns so slow?)
How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?
How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?
How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?
Why are Suns so slow?
general questions on SSL certificates
How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?
Why are Suns so slow?
Migrating pages from a paging device (was Re: removal of paging device)
20th March 2000
OSA-Express Gigabit Ethernet card planning
Simple authentication protocol: any good?
Why are Suns so slow?
How to implement doubly link list with only one pointer ?
VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
Digital Certificates-Healthcare Setting
Multics dual-page-size scheme
Multics dual-page-size scheme
South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
7 layers to a program
South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
definitions
oddly portable machines
oddly portable machines
oddly portable machines
looking for December 1974 RFC 675, "Specification of Internet Transmission Control Protocol"
oddly portable machines
Maximum Length of an URL
"Database" term ok for plain files?
Microsoft boss warns breakup could worsen virus problem
Scheduling aircraft landings at London Heathrow
Scheduling aircraft landings at London Heathrow
BASIC SMTP questions
Rainbow Series (a hard item to find..)
write rings
"Database" term ok for plain files?
"Database" term ok for plain files?
write rings
write rings
write rings
write rings
write rings
Mainframe power failure (somehow morphed from Re: write rings)
write rings
Motorola/Intel Wars
write rings
"Database" term ok for plain files?
Question regarding authentication implementation
A note on the culture of database
Question regarding authentication implementation
Question regarding authentication implementation

"Mainframe" Usage

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Mainframe" Usage
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:14:26 GMT
Marco S Hyman writes:
Not protocol, profile. The real problem with OSI was that it was too general... there were n ways for doing everything where conformant implementations could not inter-operate because they used different, conformant, options.



oops, braincheck & slip of the fingers

U. S. Government Open Systems Interconnection Profile (GOSIP) VERSION 2.0

This is a Federal Government procurement profile for open systems computer network products. Section 1 contains introductory material, the purpose and scope of the profile, and the sources of the protocol specifications contained in the profile. Section 2 contains general statements on conformance, interoperation and performance of network systems covered by this profile. Section 3 contains a brief description of the OSI architecture and protocols that apply to this profile. The network protocols are specified in section 4, the principal part of this profile. Accompanying each protocol implementation reference is a statement of conformance identifying the required functional units of that protocol. section 5, Addressing Requirements, is also an integral and mandatory part of this profile. Technical Support Personnel to Acquisition Authorities must be familiar with the terminology and ideas expressed in sections 4 and 5.

Section 6 defines security options that, if needed, must be explicitly requested in Requests For Proposals.

This profile will change with improvements in technology and with the evolution of network protocol standards. Appendices specify future work items needed to enrich the profile, and thus, improve its utility to the agencies.

Both the government and the private sector recognize the need to develop a set of common data communication protocols based on the International Organization for Standardization's seven-layer Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) Basic Reference Model [ISO 1]. In the past, vendor-specific implementations of data communication protocols led to isolated domains of information, very difficult and expensive to bridge. Recent advances in communication technology based on the OSI model offer alternatives to vendor-specific network solutions. Most significantly, advances in open systems allow the interoperation of end systems of different manufacture, when required.

This Government Open Systems Interconnection Profile (GOSIP) is based on agreements reached at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Workshop for Implementors of Open Systems Interconnection. Each new version of GOSIP will reference the latest appropriate version of the Stable Implementation Agreements for Open Systems Interconnection Protocols [NIST 1], hereafter referred to as the Workshop Agreements. The Workshop Agreements record stable implementation agreements of OSI protocols among the organizations participating in the NIST Workshop for Implementors of OSI.


--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Mainframe" Usage

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Mainframe" Usage
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 21:12:47 GMT
another side-subject was trying to get High Speed Protocol definition thru ANSI/ISO.

Basically anything that violated the 7-layer "rule" got stomped on.

Overview of the OSI model's layers

Physical
Data Link
Network
Transport
Session
Presentation
Application

TCP/IP itself, violates the OSI 7-layer model.

LANs violated the 7-layer model (effectively combining layers 1, 2, and part of 3 ... i.e. physical, data link, and part of network layer) into single piece. In some respect, LAN got done by going thru IEEE as a hardware standard and bypassing the ANSI/ISO networking politics.

HSP effectively would collapse the remaining pieces of 3 (not already in LANs) and layer 4 (transport) into a single layer; which in the optimal case would have two layers (LAN & HSP) below session.

HSP attempted to address a number of issues ... including high thruput, low latency, and transactions. In the transaction relm, HSP attempted to do a 3-packet exchange reliable protocol (compared to 7-packet minimum exchange for current TCP, and 5-packet minimum exchange for VMTP/RFC1045).

One of the issues in high thruput was being able to stream/pipeline data ... packets with (IP) header checksums were a big thing (i.e. you couldn't send the header out until the full message was processed, its checksum calculated and the value stuffed in the header ... so needed intermediate buffering equal to the largest possible message ... or direct addressing to the original message).

from: rfc1122:

3.2.1.2 Checksum: RFC-791 Section 3.1

A host MUST verify the IP header checksum on every received datagram and silently discard every datagram that has a bad checksum.

========

these days, LANs, modems, adapters, etc ... most transmission methodologies all have extensive built-in error detecting & even forward error correction.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Mainframe" Usage

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Mainframe" Usage
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 01:29:26 GMT
don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
I don't understand. The IP header checksum just sums the header. Network layer devices only need to check 20 bytes of header to make sure the packet doesn't turn left instead of right before starting to put the thing on the wire for its next hop. It's up to the transport layer protocol to sort out whether the payload actually arrived with the header when it gets to its final destination

I'm sorry slipped up and met tcp checksum not ip checksum and quoted the wrong reference.

from rfc793:


TCP Header Format

0                   1                   2                   3
    0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |          Source Port          |       Destination Port        |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                        Sequence Number                        |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                    Acknowledgment Number                      |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |  Data |           |U|A|P|R|S|F|                               |
| Offset| Reserved  |R|C|S|S|Y|I|            Window             |
|       |           |G|K|H|T|N|N|                               |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |           Checksum            |         Urgent Pointer        |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
   |                    Options                    |    Padding    |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
|                             data                              |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

TCP Header Format

& from rfc1700

TCP OPTION NUMBERS

The Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) has provision for optional
header fields identified by an option kind field.  Options 0 and 1 are
exactly one octet which is their kind field.  All other options have
their one octet kind field, followed by a one octet length field,
followed by length-2 octets of option data.

Kind   Length   Meaning                           Reference
----   ------   -------------------------------   ---------
0        -    End of Option List                 [RFC793]
  1        -    No-Operation                       [RFC793]
2        4    Maximum Segment Lifetime           [RFC793]
  3        3    WSOPT - Window Scale              [RFC1323]
4        2    SACK Permitted                    [RFC1072]
5        N    SACK                              [RFC1072]
6        6    Echo (obsoleted by option 8)      [RFC1072]
  7        6    Echo Reply (obsoleted by option 8)[RFC1072]
8       10    TSOPT - Time Stamp Option         [RFC1323]
  9        2    Partial Order Connection Permitted[RFC1693]
10        5    Partial Order Service Profile     [RFC1693]
11             CC                                 [Braden]
12             CC.NEW                             [Braden]
 13             CC.ECHO                            [Braden]
14         3   TCP Alternate Checksum Request    [RFC1146]
 15         N   TCP Alternate Checksum Data       [RFC1146]
16             Skeeter                           [Knowles]
17             Bubba                             [Knowles]
18         3   Trailer Checksum Option    [Subbu & Monroe]

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Mainframe" Usage

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Mainframe" Usage
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 02:33:19 GMT
don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
>Physical
>Data Link
>Network
>Transport
>Session
>Presentation
>Application
>
>TCP/IP itself, violates the OSI 7-layer model.

Huh? Last time I looked, IP slotted exactly into the Network layer, and TCP into Transport.


by definition IP is the internetworking layer ... not the network layer (fitting between layers 3 & 4) ... although the semantics of the TCP<->IP interchange appears similar to a l4<->l3 semantics.

IP is designed to fit between network layer and transport layer and provide an additional network abstraction (not provided for in the OSI model).

misc. other refs.

IEN32
IEN111
IEN166

... from ien111:

For example, a TCP module would call on the internet module to take a TCP segment (including the TCP header and user data) as the data portion of an internet datagram. The TCP module would provide the addresses and other parameters in the internet header to the internet module as arguments of the call. The internet module would then create an internet datagram and call on the local network interface to transmit the internet datagram.



===============

which places IP above the network layer ... but below the transport layer. In the case of LAN network, the IP module would call the LAN network interface ... which would prefix a LAN network header in front of the IP internet header (which had been prefixed in front of the TCP transport header)

random references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#37b
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#38b
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#38d

in the diagram taken from IEN-166 at:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#72

The transport TCP intefaced to the internet IP layer

The internet IP layer interfaced to the network 1822/IMP layer

The network 1822/IMP layer (actually IMP) handled the data link & physical layer.

In the case of LANs today

THe transport TCP layer interface to the internet IP layer (& the internet ip layer adds a IP header in front of the TCP header)

The internet IP layer interface to the network LAN layer (& the network LAN layer adds a network header in front of the internet IP header)

The network LAN layer then handles the two lower levels.

In the case of most point-to-point links

The transport TCP layer interface to the internet IP layer (& the internet ip layer adds a IP header in front of the TCP header)

The internet IP layer interface ot the network PPP layer (& the network PPP layer adds a network header in front of the internet IP header)

The network PPP layer then handles the two lower levels.

Four layer TCP/IP would looks something like

1 physical/data link (osi 1&2)
2 network layer (osi 3)
3 IP/internet layer (osi ???)
4 transport TCP layer (osi 4)

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Mainframe" Usage

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Mainframe" Usage
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 03:47:34 GMT
don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes
OK, I see the point, although I don't see it as being much of an issue. It would be an issue if the TCP checksum computation was in hardware: you could assemble the packet in a buffer and submit it to the output device with a flag saying "compute TCP checksum please" (or even "do TCP stuff with this", and if the checksums were trailing instead of in the header, that could be done as the packet was clocked onto the wire.

misc. references:
http://www.hp.com/threecom/technology/tech_net/white_papers/503003.html

CPU Utilization at Gigabit Speeds

At gigabit speeds, routine networking tasks such as TCP/IP checksum calculations can easily tie up the processor, resulting in 100 percent CPU utilization. This leaves no processing power for running other applications. Therefore, well-designed Gigabit Ethernet NICs offload such tasks from the host processor, performing them in the NIC hardware. These Gigabit Ethernet NICs also consolidate interrupts, interrupting the CPU less frequently and for multiple tasks each time. This reduces the number of times the processor has to save context to service interrupts, and results in lower CPU utilization for better application performance.




====================

the following from:
http://www.dec.com/info/DTJS05/
http://www.digital.com/info/DTJS05/DTJS05SC.TXT

A traditional system follows the networking subsystem model implemented within the BSD releases of UNIX, shown in Figure 2. An application uses the CPU to create data (1), the socket portion of the system call interface copies the data into operating system buffers (2 and 3), the network transport protocol checksums the data for error detection purposes (4), and the device driver uses programmed input/output (I/O) or direct memory access (DMA) to move the data to the network (5). Graphs showing the dominant costs of checksumming and kernel buffer copies are presented in Reference 6.

===================

misc. references from around the net on HSP issues:
http://www-tkn.ee.tu-berlin.de/html/lehre/bla/tcp_hs.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20010126145400/http://www-tkn.ee.tu-berlin.de/html/lehre/bla/tcp_hs.html
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~jain/cis788-95/transport/index.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20031003055250/http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~jain/cis788-95/transport/index.html
http://www.cs.umd.edu/~pravin/presentations/splice-talk/Splice-Talkl17.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20041118002130/www.winlab.rutgers.edu/~pravin/presentations/splice-talk/Splice-Talkl17.htm
http://www.ca.sandia.gov/xtp/xtpintro.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20040404113457/http://www.ca.sandia.gov/xtp/xtpintro.html

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

ascii to binary

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: ascii to binary
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 06:01:07 GMT
John Wingate writes:
I have a stack of blank cards too. (They make good bookmarks.) Only 10 rows are labeled, but 12 rows were used for punching. CDC binary files were punched with each 60-bit word taking up five columns-- 16 words per card.

discussed sporadically on alt.folklore.computers.

709/709x/1401/etc binary could have all 12x80 holes punched & used BCD for character codes. with 360s & ebcdic (a superset of bcd) ... allowed for 256 codes (8bit bytes, four? holes per column was the most used & would generate hardware errors for columns with invalid hole combinations, my green card is in storage).

360s could interface to card reader/punch using something called column binary for processing 709/709x/1401/etc binary cards using 160bytes ... effectively each column had pairs of 6bit codes mapped to pairs of 360 (8bit) bytes

table that use to give punch codes:
http://www.s390.ibm.com/bookmgr-cgi/bookmgr.cmd/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/I%2e0

random reference:
http://users.ticnet.com/davea/greencard/start.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20000302235907/http://users.ticnet.com/davea/greencard/start.htm
http://www.cwi.nl/people/dik/english/codes/80col.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20051228151320/homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/codes/80col.html
http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/characcodehist.html
http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/fieldata.html

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

ascii to binary

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: ascii to binary
Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 06:53:35 GMT
... oops, a little too quick on the send.

url with complete bcd & ebcdic card codes (26key punch, 29key punch)
http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/codes.html

it also has proprietary 026 varients by control data, dec, GE, & univac

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Mainframe" Usage

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Mainframe" Usage
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 15:53:01 GMT
Floyd Davidson writes:
The OSI 7-layer _model_ is just that, a model. It does not define seven protocol layers, it defines seven sets of functional concepts that exist in the provision of network services.

The TCP/IP protocol _architecture_ does not "violate" the OSI model. It is a set of protocols. The functionality of that set can be described in various ways, some of which conveniently use 3 layers, 4 layers, or 5 layers.


the discussion started out that the ISO&ANSI networking standards bodies (responsible for the OSI model) in the 80s and early 90s didn't care for protocol implementations that didn't exactly implement/correspond to the OSI 7 layer model ... trying to do HSP which collapsed layers 3&4 into single layer was objected to by the members of the standards bodies because it didn't exactly implement/preserve/correspond to OSI layers (aka they asserted that HSP violated OSI model).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Mainframe" Usage

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Mainframe" Usage
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 16:02:51 GMT
don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
True, but there's nothing stopping the card from doing the TCP checksum and putting it in the buffered header before starting to clock the packet onto the wire. That solves the CPU time time problem without needing trailing checksums. The checksum still needs to be computed.

that is also what the gigabit testbed final report stated (circa '96)
http://www.cnri.reston.va.us/gigafr/noframes/section-4-16.htm

basically asserting that the extra memory was reasonable trade-off given the problem of changing installed TCP implementations to support trailer checksums.

however, the discussion started out as to what issues was HSP trying to address. HSP wouldn't have the trade-offs of implementations already in the field. The issue for HSP was did the aggregate benefit from HSP justify the new protocol.

some HSP issues

more efficient checksum processing better congestion control & pacing possibly zero data copies, pipelining from transport interface directly into protocol engine easier use of larger MTUs 3 packet minimum exchange (compared to TCP 7 packet minimum exchange, improved latency reliable multicast more efficient error handling

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Mainframe" Usage

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Mainframe" Usage
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 20:38:51 GMT
Floyd Davidson writes:
Virtually nobody, except with the OSI protocol suite, has followed it. And of course TCP/IP which predates the OSI 7-layer model has become the protocol of choice, which emphasizes the OSI effort's value as the model and not the protocol suite.

i also would sometimes needle in ANSI/ISO meetings that IETF at least required a sanity check in the form two interoperable models for standardization candidates ...

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Mainframe" Usage

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Mainframe" Usage
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 21:07:13 GMT
don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
Which can be "solved" by the simple expedient of keeping the TCP session opening and closing procedures out of the critical path, ie by opening a TCP session at the start of an operation and leaving it open until finished. This is an issue for much more than high-speed comms; with slow-start congestion control, multiple small TCP connections perform really badly in high latency environments[1]. Protocols like HTTP already use persistent connections for this reason.

(Living in .nz means you get to notice things like this -- simple physics tells you that the minimum round-trip time to the US from here is >100 ms, and that's without taking other ugly real-world factors into account, not the least of them being that the terrestrial cables into the country are full -- 100 x bandwidth improvement due in September ... 8-)

-- don


slow-start in typical bursty real-world is also non-stable. I think there was a paper in SIGCOMM proceedings giving details (this shortly after some slow-start became available .. 89 or 89 ... they are in storage at the moment) ... it was just better than nothing.

we had run into similar problem using any sort of windowing based infrastructure in high-speed real-world bursty environment in the mid-80s and had gone to rate-based pacing (not only needing to react to changes in congestion but also that ACKs can clump on the return and all of a sudden you have all of your buffers wide open).

while long-lived HTTP gives some better prediction of pending activity ... it is also prone to non-stable slow start.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Fairshare scheduling

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Fairshare scheduling
Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.threads
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:10:54 GMT
Justin Liew writes:
Anyone have any idea what a fairshare scheduling regime is? I've searched the Net and newsgroups, but have come up short. Are there any links or textbooks that describe this?

Thanks, J


random references from old & not so old newsgroup postings ....
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#5
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#23
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#31
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#2
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#3
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#4
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#5
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#86
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#92

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Proletarians of the World Wide Web, unite against ICANN!

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Proletarians of the World Wide Web, unite against ICANN!
Newsgroups: alt.culture.internet,alt.folklore.computers,alt.internet.media-coverage
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 04:15:53 GMT
jmfbahciv writes:
Lookup anything that she posted in this newsgroup (alt.folklore.computers) throughout the last five years. And I'm saying five years because that only how long I've been on-line. If she posted before that, I'm sure people tried to correct her reality filter. I have often (actually, it's probably more like _always_) told her to go read the old specs, proposals, etc. which she never does.

ditto

random URL
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Will Radius be obsolute if implement 2-token authentications?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Will Radius be obsolute if implement 2-token authentications?
Newsgroups: comp.security.firewalls
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 16:32:41 GMT
"Jin Rid" writes:
hi

My current setup includes Cisco PIX and CiscoSecure for AAA. We use basic userid and password for authentication. The Radius get the userinfo from Windows NT domain.

We are going to implement 2-token authentication such as RSA SecurID or certificate based smart-card. Will the token based authentication make the CiscoSecure redundant?

Thanks


there have been AADS upgrades to radius where the userinfo/password is optionally a public key and authentication is via digital signatures using an AADS smartcard.

random refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#217
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#224
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#straw
http://lists.commerce.net/archives/ansi-epay/199912/msg00008.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20020607133811/http://lists.commerce.net/archives/ansi-epay/199912/msg00008.html

there have also been demos of webserver upgrades to utilize radius protocol in a similar manner (in place of ROI userid/password for web site authentication).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How many Megaflops and when?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How many Megaflops and when?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 19:25:25 GMT
cronology of machines ... 6600 63/08 ann, 64/09 first customer ship
http://web.archive.org/web/20010218005108/http://www.isham-research.freeserve.co.uk/chrono.txt

some references to 360/91 (1967)
http://emess.mscd.edu/~csi3060/Tomasulo/tsld002.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20060114145609/http://emess.mscd.edu/~csi3060/Tomasulo/tsld002.htm
http://www.cs.herts.ac.uk/~comrrdp/pipeline/p_4_4.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20030406215205/homepages.feis.herts.ac.uk/~comrrdp/pipeline/p_4_4.html
parallel computing reference
http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Parallel.html

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How many Megaflops and when?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How many Megaflops and when?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 07:31:14 GMT
dpeschel@sumatra.cs.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) writes:
The I/O controllers on both CDC and IBM machines are (were?) reprogrammable. On the CDC controllers, I think the instruction set was Turing-complete. The IBM controllers have a more limited instruction set (I'm not sure if it is Turing-complete or not).

Granted, no sane person would reprogram them normally (or had the privileges) but it could be done.


misc. ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#5
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#9
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#16
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#17
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#16
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#15
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33a
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#3
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#14
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#18

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

ooh, a real flamewar :)

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: ooh, a real flamewar :)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.advocacy
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:27:15 GMT
i asserted starting back around '89 that a large portion of the exploits were symptomatic of C convention of null terminated implicit lengths ... contributing to large number of buffer overrun scenerios (which continues today).

I also believe that somewhere in the early '90s there was report &/or press release from the austin tandem labs about contributing changes back to the system V base a set of changes that were specifically reliability oriented (including hundreds ... if not thousands of panics removed from the kernel, etc).

misc. refs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#30
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#85
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#163
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#219
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#25

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

ooh, a real flamewar :)

Refed: **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: ooh, a real flamewar :)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.advocacy
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:32:04 GMT
identifying and removing panics isn't necessarily trivially straight forward

some of the panics are things like hard disk errors ... so to pull the panic wasn't just a matter of removing the panic ... but replacing it with some detailed error recovery logic

other panics may be recognizable memory pointer problems ... which if system were left running might result in propagating the error into things like file system corruption &/or other integrity problems.

frequently the error & failure recovery logic ... can be four times as much code as the base non-recovery code.

random refs (including pieces of 'mainframe & unix' thread from '96 & "OSes commercial, history" thread from 97 ... both in comp.arch)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#28
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#00
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#16
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33a
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#44
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#1
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#18
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#27
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#28
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#31
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#32
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#33
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#41
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#11
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#12
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#13
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#14
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#15
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#16
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#17
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#31
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#47
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#49
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#53
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#71
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#21
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#22

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Tysons Corner, Virginia

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Tysons Corner, Virginia
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:48:29 GMT
my wife did tour thru SBS late 70s and came back when it was turned over to MCI. Building was (essentially) across the back parking lot of the best western (which faces on turnpike/7). MCI unloaded the bldg. and now occupied by BAH ... which built a matching bldg slightly downhill and put in a lobby/auditorium between the two.

had an array of dishes on top of the bldg. for quite some time.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How many Megaflops and when?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How many Megaflops and when?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:09:06 GMT
"Gerard S." writes:
If it weren't for the VS/1 and ACP systems, we could have got by on 1 or 2 Megabytes, easy. And this was on a 1/2 MIPS CPU engine. Response times were excellant, all sub 1/10 second for full-screen channel attached terminals.

Gerard S.


there was a (internal) symposium held at tower bridge marriott about '71. harlen mills talked about super programmer.

there was a human response paper on response time & people's perception. Study of large body of people showed a distribution of what people could perceive ... between about .25 seconds and .10 seconds i.e. what threshold could they not decern different in response times ... for some the threshold was .25 seconds (they didn't notice the difference between .25seconds and .24 seconds). For some the threshold was as low as .10 seconds (i.e. would notice the difference between .11 seconds and .10 seconds).

Another study indicated that unexpected delays in response had a downside doubling of impact on productivity. If person was expecting a one second response ... and it was actually 2 seconds ... the person's attention would effectively start wandering and there would be a delay in the person refocusing their attention (delay approximately proportional between the difference between the actual response and the expected response). An unexpected 1 second delay in response actually resulted in a 2 second impact on productivity.

random refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#31
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#46

in the above "Big I/O or Kicking the Mainframe out the Door" response was for 90th percentile and for large mix-mode workload .. users doing complex combination of trivial interactive as well as compile, test, and various batch work.

in the following (acp/tpf related):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#61

infrastructure had >100,000 terminals & displays w/nominal workload generating 3500-4000 I/O interrupts/second (120,000/min)

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How many Megaflops and when?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How many Megaflops and when?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:17:01 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
infrastructure had >100,000 terminals & displays w/nominal workload generating 3500-4000 I/O interrupts/second (120,000/min)

the I/O interrupt rate was just for the communication devices, terminals, and displays ... didn't include any of the disks or other system devices.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

ooh, a real flamewar :)

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: ooh, a real flamewar :)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp8,alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:32:56 GMT
"Carl R. Friend" writes:
There is absolutely _nothing_ in the "C" language that makes the production of robust software "unthinkable" any more than it's not possible to write decent code in assembler, COBOL, ADA, or whatever other language one chooses to write in. The attention to detail is the important bit, _not_ the language one writes in.

i've claim that the C convention of null-terminated strings obscured the requirement for explicitly handling lengths and has lead to large percentage of infrastructure exploits (buffer overrun/overflow). The frequency of problems is significantly higher compared to evironments w/conventions requiring explicit length handling.

... from some quote ... in theory there is no difference between theory and practice ... but in practice there is.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Tysons Corner, Virginia

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Tysons Corner, Virginia
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:37:47 GMT
Paul 125 writes:
OK, I know what MCI, PRC, and even AAA stand for..., but please help: SBS? and BAH? Thanks in advance.

SBS ... satellite business systems, equally owned by IBM, Comsat, and Aetna ... before various pieces sold off to MCI, Hughes, etc.

BAH ... Booz, Allen, Hamilton

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How many Megaflops and when?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How many Megaflops and when?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:44:23 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
there was a (internal) symposium held at tower bridge marriott about '71. harlen mills talked about super programmer.

oops, finger check .. that was key bridge marriott not tower bridge.

there was some discussion recently that it may have been the original marriott and on the site of what had been a marriott hot shop.

How many Megaflops and when?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How many Megaflops and when?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 02:47:13 GMT
jvarela@nospam.com (John Varela) writes:
The original Marriott was a lunchroom called the Hot Shoppe that became a Washington-area chain. I think the original Marriott motel was the one that used to be at the Virginia end of the 14th Street Bridge, near the Pentagon between (what is now) I-395 and the railroad. It disappeared sometime in the 70s or early 80s I'm not sure why. I stayed there in 1973. The Key Bridge Marriott is also quite old -- I recall having lunch there in 1961 or 62 -- and is still there much modified over the years.

now that you mentioned it ... the 14th street bridge marriott was probably where the conference in '71 was also.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

S-P-F (was Mainframe operating systems)

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: S-P-F (was Mainframe operating systems)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 03:23:53 GMT
Allan Beatty writes:
Skip Robinson wrote: > 'Structured Programming Facility' was an poignant example of riding the > buzzword band wagon. Structured Programming was a favorite hot button in > the late 70s. As much as I've always loved the product, I never could see > how it contributed much in the way structure to an amorphous program.

As I recall from 20 years ago, the "structured programming" aspect meant that there were indent commands, and you could suppress groups of lines from displaying in order to show your DO and ENDDO next to each other.

-- Allan Beatty allan dot beatty at donnelley dot infousa dot com


how 'bout the big "goto-less" thing and super programmer also.

slightly related:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#20
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#24
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#25

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Tysons Corner, Virginia

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Tysons Corner, Virginia
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:48:01 GMT
we had transponders on SBS4 for research activities with privision we could get pre-empted for things like special TV coverage. we got hit for things like the pope's visit to denver (circa '86?, 87?) ... and were out for 3 days on that one. Did get invited to the VIP stands for SBS4's launch.

was part of the backbone we operated ... with clear-channel T1s and some fiber links.

random references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33b

and link haven't check recently
http://www.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/41-d/mission-41-d.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20040205142514/science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/41-d/mission-41-d.html
now:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/shuttlemissions/archives/sts-41D.html

SBS also had the data aggregator (or aggravator some called trying to get it debugged) ... DES encrypted satellite T3 TDMA channel (i.e. 20 or so TDMA earth stations sharing/multiplexing both uplink and downlink ... real bear .. since different stations injected packets into the uplink packet flow ... and different stations were targeted for the downlink dataflow.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Win32 Memory consumption.

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Win32 Memory consumption.
Newsgroups: netscape.public.mozilla.general
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 18:00:27 GMT
on nt4 running netscape 7.2 and then click on 12 different URLs opening them all in different windows ... and it adds about 4mbytes to my memory consumption.

running mozilla 14 and then click on the same 12 URLs opening them all in different windows ... and it adds about 28mbytes to my memory consumption.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

20th March 2000

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 20th March 2000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 02:28:05 GMT
Mike Cowlishaw writes:
Today is a special day for Rexx. The language "comes of age", being 21 today.

Very many thanks to everyone who has used, implemented, and supported it, and for all the many kind words and feedback about it over the years!

Mike Cowlishaw
IBM Fellow

not quite 21 ... but >20 years; earliest reference that I stumble across.


Tuesday, February 26, 1980:

   9:00 -  W.W. Eggleston      - VM/370 ITE Kickoff, Mr. Eggleston is the
President of GPD.
   9:30 -  Ray Holland         - ITE Overview.
9:45 -  Forrest Garnett     - Dynamic Writable Shared Segment Overview.
10:00 -  Jim Gray            - System R , An Overview.
10:30 -  Break
  11:00 -  Gene Svenson        - Extended Networking.
11:30 -  Roy Engehausen      - Network management and load balancing tools.
  12:00 -  Lunch
1:00 -  Peter Rocker        - Network Response monitoning, Remote Dial
Support, and VM/370 HyperChannel attachment
1:20 -  Jeff Barber         - CADCOM - Series/1 to VM/370 inter-program
                                 communications.
1:35 -  Noah Mendelson      - PVM - Pass Through Virtual Machine Facility.
   2:00 -  Noah Mendelson      - EDX on Series/1 as a VNET work station.
2:15 -  Tom Heald           - Clock - Timer Driven CMS Virtual Machine.
2:30 -  Break
3:00 -  Vern Skinner        - 3540 Diskett Read/Write Support in CMS.
   3:30 -  Bobby Lie           - VM/SP - System Product offering overview
and discussion.
   4:30 -  Closing             - From this point on there can be small
informal sessions of points of interest.

Wednesday, February 27, 1980:

9:00 -  Billie Smith        - Common System Plans.
                                 modifications and results.
9:30 -  Claude Hans         - XEDIT Update.
Nagib Badre
10:00 -  Graham Pursey       - SNATAM - Controlling SNA devices from CMS.
  10:30 -  Break
11:00 -  Mike Cowlishaw      - REX Executor.
  11:45 -  Mark Brown          - San Jose File Back-up System.
12:00 -  Lunch
1:00 -  Albert Hafner       - VMBARS - VM/370 Backup and Retrieval System.
1:45 -  Chris Bishoff       - 6670 Office System Printer and VM/370
           Tom Hutton
2:15 -  Break
   2:45 -  Rodger Bailey       - VM/370 Based Publication System.
3:15 -  Dieter Paris        - Photo-composition Support in DCF
3:30 -  John Howard         - VM Emulator Extensions.
Dave Fritz
   3:40 -  Tom Nilson          - DPPG Interavtive Strategy and VM/CMS.
4:30 -  Closing             - From this point on there can be small
                                 informal sessions of points of interest.
4:30 -  Editor Authors      - This will be an informal exchange of
information on the changes comming and
any input from users on edit concepts.
                                 All those wishing to express their opinions
should attend.

Thursday, February 28, 1980:

9:00 -  Ed Hahn             - VM/370 Mulit-Drop Support
   9:30 -  Ann Jones           - Individual Password System for VM/370.
10:00 -  Walt Daniels        - Individual Computing based on EM/YMS.
  10:30 -  Break
11:00 -  Chris Stephenson    - EM/370 - Extended Machine 370 and EM/YMS
Extended Machine Yorktown Monitor System.
12:00 -  Lunch
   1:00 -  Simon Nash          - Extended CMS Performance Monitoring Facility
1:30 -  George McQuilken    - Distributed Processing Maching Controls.
   2:00 -  Mike Cassily        - Planned Security Extensions to VM/370 at
the Cambridge Scientific Center
2:30 -  Break
3:00 -  Steve Pittman       - Intra Virtual Machine Synchronization
                                 Enqueue/Dequeue Mechanisms.
3:30 -  Jeff Hill           - Boulder F.E. Source Library Control System.
   4:00 -  Ray Holland         - VMITE Closing.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

20th March 2000

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 20th March 2000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 01:29:34 GMT
John Ferrell writes:
No offense intended, but since it is Mike's creation I believe I will take his numbers to be the correct ones.

???

I never made any statement about mike's dates being incorrect (&/or intended that such a thing would be implied)

I just posted the earliest reference I could find on rex/rexx.

There is implication that since the reference was a talk about rex/rexx that rex/rexx should have predated the talk (i.e. it was in existance before the date of the talk)

If you have a early rex/rexx reference maybe you would care to share it?

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

20th March 2000

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 20th March 2000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 01:31:39 GMT
i.e. reference to "not quite 21" had nothing at all to do with Mike's comment about the age of rex/rexx ... it had to do with the antiquity of the reference that I stumbled across.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

20th March 2000

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 20th March 2000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 16:04:56 GMT
another early rex reference:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#11

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lynn@netcom11.netcom.com (Lynn Wheeler)
Subject: REXX
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 1994 01:28:25 GMT

This is a REXX story from the early '80s.

In 1982 REXX was still in its early incarnations and there were efforts to get it released to the world as a product. Some of the nay-sayers were claiming that it was just another batch command language ... which the world already had plenty. Being part of the true-believers I wanted to do a demonstration that showed that it was significantly more than another batch command language.

I selected as a demonstration a replacement of a VM product component that was currently implemented in 370 assembler. The existing product was called DUMPSCAN and it contained >20k lines of assembler code and was used to view CP and CMS postmortem storage image dumps (and had a full-time department of 5-10 people supporting it).

My demonstration was that in 3 months elapsed, working half-time, I would create a REXX replacement for DUMPSCAN that had 5 the function and ran 5 faster (REXX is an interpreted language). The initial part of the demonstration was completed in a little over 2 months ... it had a very small assembler stub module (couple hundred lines of code) that provided some low-level primitive functions for "DUMPRX". The actual replacement was 2200 lines of REXX code that implemented a large superset of the DUMPSCAN function and would operate 5 faster (with a side-effect for those familiar with the OCO issue was that effectively nearly all source code had to be shipped). Some of the enhancements:


"opcodes" formated storage display
         display storage as addresses with respect to
kernel symbol table.
some simple psuedo-assembler code written in REXX could
process source include files and perform "source" formated
          display of storage locations
handle not only postmortem storage dumps but also work
          against live cp & cms kernel
parse the GML source file for messages&codes manual and
display information of interest.
save/log complete session
         sophisticated high-level "help"


Since I still had almost a month left on the product ... I produced nearly another 800 lines of REXX code that implemented expert-system-like analysis of postmortem storage images.

It became relatively successful ... although never released to customers as a product. I directly distributed the application to over 100 internal locations world-wide and at least at one time was in use by all internal locations as well as all (VM) field service people.

In support of this, I also made a minor modification to CP kernel to maintain symbol entry-point table. The "standard" DUMPSCAN process was to merge a "saved" loadmap (generated when the kernel was built) with the dump storage image.

The CP kernel build process (not really changed since 1967) was to use the "BPS" loader to load into memory all the kernel binaries. Then a kernel application would receive control from the BPS-loader and write the storage-image to a special disk boot-location.

In 1969, I was started playing around with some enhancements to the CP kernel to allow part of it to be "unpinned" and allow it to page. As part of this I also modified the boot-build routine. When the BPS-loader exits to the loaded program, it passes the address of the loader symbol table as well as the count of entries in the table. The modification I made to the boot-build routine was to copy the the BPS-loader symbol table to the end of the kernel core image and write it out as part of the boot-image. Since it was located in the "pageable", unpinned portion of the kernel it wasn't going to take up runtime storage (there were some 360/67s out there that only had 512kbytes of real storage ... fixed kernel size was becoming critical).

In any case, I went back and resurrected the 1969 modifications and re-applied them to the '82 cp kernel (appending the BPS-loader symbol table to the end of the CP kernel boot-image). I then added the appropriate switch to DUMPRX to utilize the real symbol table if available. This eliminated the problem of getting entry symbols from a "load-map" that didn't match the boot-file..
--
+-+-+-+
Lynn Wheeler | lynn@netcom.com, lhw@well.sf.ca.us


--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

20th March 2000

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 20th March 2000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.rexx,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 05:36:41 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
In 1982 REXX was still in its early incarnations and there were efforts to get it released to the world as a product. Some of the nay-sayers were claiming that it was just another batch command language ... which the world already had plenty. Being part of the true-believers I wanted to do a demonstration that showed that it was significantly more than another batch command language.

date misquote ... should have been '81 ... i.e.

"In early spring of 1981, the first release of DUMPRX was made available and also some of the ideas and aspects of the technology were discussed at a SHARE BOF."

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Those who do not learn from history...

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Those who do not learn from history...
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:29:49 GMT
kfl@saltmine.radix.net (Keith F. Lynch) writes:
That doesn't sound like a newsgroup name. Not even before the great renaming. I've been online since the 70s, but the first mention I saw of the year 2000 bug was in January 1988. Not to say that NOBODY mentioned it before then, but even if anyone did, there certainly wasn't enough discussion to inspire creation of a newsgroup.

it wasn't a usenet newsgroup ....... it was an internal discussion group on the internet network.. random references
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#112
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#7
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#38c
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#1

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

VMS vs. Unix (was: Why are Suns so slow?)

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VMS vs. Unix  (was: Why are Suns so slow?)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel,comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:15:27 GMT
"Mike Yankus" writes
An IBM PC may have cost more than an Apple product, but IBM's entry into the PC market was the impetus for the lower priced clones.

at the time, the major market was the commercial/business market. hobbyist and consumer was interesting ... but the commercial/business market was significantly larger (at the time). A combination of mainframe terminal emulation and various business applications on the ibm/pc allowed a single box to be deployed on desks for both functions. Office desk space is typically rather scarce ... putting both a mainframe dumb terminal and a separate PC on office desk wasn't a practical option in most cases (both space wise and cost wise). That was somewhat independent of using the IBM name to sell directly into the lower-end PC business market (not involving mainframe dumb terminal upgrade).

The size of the mainframe dumb terminal "upgrade" market (coupled with the rest of the PC business market) made it possible to get the volumes that could drive down the manufacturing costs and make it interesting for clones to enter the market. From that point there was positive feedback with further cost competition opening new market segments as well as attracting both new manufactures as well as software developers. This eventually spilled into the consumer and home market.

misc. ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#6
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#28

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:42:55 GMT
Ed.Long@FMR.COM (Long, Ed) writes:
I had a similar experience with a 370/145 that had 3rd party memory (CMS).

The fan failed, the boards and insulation overheated, and the room became a smoke house. The machine was essentially replaced in its entirety.


IBM used closed loop liquid cooling with heat exchange unit and thermal sensors (standard cooling systems tended to be pretty impure and do things like leave deposits and clog up lines). one site lost liquid flow on the outboard/building side of the cooling infrastructure. Unfortunately the mass of liquid on the inboard side wasn't sufficient to cover the shutdown cycle ... the thermal sensors noticed the temperture starting to rise and shutdown the power ... however the amount of heat in the system continued to drive up the temperature until all the TCMs fried. IBM replaced all the TCMs in the machine and also starting installing flow sensors on the outboard side of the cooling infrastructure that would also trip power shutdown.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:13:51 GMT
glass2 writes:
If my memory is correct, S/370-model 145 machines did not use TCMs. The TCMs were introduced on the 308x machines (and, were one of the reasons for the existance of the 303x machines).

the lower end machines were air-cooled, 145, 148, 4341, 4381 ... etc ... although the 4381 introduced some (miniture) cooling towers.

the high end machines were water cooled (or at least had heat exhange unit with water on the outboard side). Later machines used TCMs (thermal conduction modules) to improve heat transfer. They were solid blocks inclosing the components and holes drilled thru the blocks with connectors to flow fluid thru the blocks.

random refs:
http://www-mae.engr.ucf.edu/~jtt/heat_transfer.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20020609182101/http://www-mae.engr.ucf.edu/~jtt/heat_transfer.htm
http://domino.int-evry.fr/IntranetDSI/EuroFret/ibm3090.htm

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 19:53:23 GMT
possibly cornell university ... (the requirement for flow sensor on the out-board side of the heat exchanger may have shown up in some earlier scenerios)

another TCM story was that target on the 3081 (or 3090?) was going to be (I believe) six TCMs but it was beginning to look like they would have to add an extra one for addition channel I/O processing.

the problem was the 3880 control unit ... while the 3880 introduced data streaming and 3mbyte/sec channel capacity (i.e. instead of channel/controller handshake on every byte transferred it could transfer 8bytes per handshake ... also allowed doubling the length on the bus&tag cables).

The problem is that 3830->3880 went from a fast horizontal mcode processor to relatively slow vertical mcode jib-prime processor ... with data-path bypass (i.e. control ops went thru jib-prime but data & control data paths were done separate). The problem was that the 3880 control processing significantly increased the "channel busy" time associated with control operations ... enuf so that it would significantly degrade the aggregate data transfer thruput into & out of the processor complex (compared to 3830 controller, even with the change from 3330 disk drives to 3830 3mbyte/sec disk drives).

to maintain aggregate processing thruput required increasing channels which translated into increase in the number of TCMs ... which were the major expense factor in the processor complex.

we had seen something analogous earlier in several complexes where we remoted all the "channel-attached" displays behind HYPERChannel channel extenders. In much of the '70s had display controllers intermixed on same channels with disk controllers. The display controllers also had expensive channel busy control operations ... that implied blocking/delaying disk control access. The internal HYPERChannel project remoted all the display controllers using local HYPERChannel (A220) controllers on the processor channels and remote HYPERChannel (A51x) 370 channel simulators. The A220/A51x processing was asynchronous allowing local A220 to burst the direct mainframe channel activity. Just remoting the display controllers (significantly reducing local channel busy & disk controller interference) resulted in 10-15% overall aggregate system thruput.

random refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#23
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#24
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#18
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#19
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#16
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#27

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Why are Suns so slow?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why are Suns so slow?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel,comp.arch,comp.sys.sun.misc
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:09:15 GMT
wbe @[ubeblock ]psr.com (Winston Edmond) writes:
It was called "partial matching" -- as long as you typed enough characters to uniquely identify the command, you didn't have to type the rest. You could type as many or as few characters as you liked (as long as it was "enough"). Andy is right that this was not the same as synonyms / aliases. "Aliases" don't require the alias name and value have anything in common; e.g. "ls" --> "dir".

but it was the same table/command ... there was a "system" table with the default values ... but the user could specify a user specific table which supported both aliases/synonyms and minimum characters.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

general questions on SSL certificates

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: general questions on SSL certificates
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:00:27 GMT
kilgallen@eisner.decus.org (Larry Kilgallen) writes:
The big difference about SET is not the certificate format but rather the protocols used. Simply put, with SET the merchant cannot learn the credit card number of the customer, but does get cryptographic assurance that the transaction will be honored.

actually this has been argued both ways ... however the merchant needs to keep a record of the credit card number after the transaction has executed ... since there are various business processes that rely on the merchant having that number.

The consumer encrypts the credit card number under the payment gateway key ... and sends it to the merchant .. who forwards it to the payment gateway. For a valid merchant/transaction, the payment gateway echos the number back to the merchant in the transaction response (where it goes into the merchant database of credit card numbers).

Also, SET is sensitive to the privacy issues ... not identifying the certificate owner ... just carrying the bare minimum for having some account. This somewhat falls into the category of relying-party-only certificates ... because of both liability & privacy issues.

random other references at
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ansiepay.htm#theory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#sslset1
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#sslset2
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay2.htm#aadspriv
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay2.htm#privrules
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsmail.htm#comfort
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ansiepay.htm#privacy

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How to learn assembler language for OS/390 ?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:28:58 GMT
I used 2321 as undergraduate ... we had ONR grant at the university library and had 2321 data cell and was one of the original CICS beta-test sites. Had problems in both 2321 and CICS.

never worked on the 2321 later ... but worked with some of the engineers that had been responsible for the 2321.

random references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#9
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#9

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Why are Suns so slow?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why are Suns so slow?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel,comp.arch,comp.sys.sun.misc
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 03:55:03 GMT
DONT.qed.SPAM.ME@pobox.com (Paul Hsieh) writes:
Well, Lotus became the first "killer app", which made the PC more attractive for people who wanted a computer but was not interested in programming one.

note also, ibm was selling the PC into the mainframe terminal market where you could upgrade from a dumb display on your desk to a PC ... which could be used as both an mainframe terminal and for various kinds of local processing (like spreadsheets) ... single box on business desk that satisfied both mainframe terminal as well as local processing requirements. There were also things like somebody taking tinycalc from turbo pascal ... and distributing an expense account spreadsheet for business travelers (much smaller footprint than either visacalc or 123).

you could get a terminal emulator where you set/tune things like key repeat delay and key repeat rate ... as well as not lock the keyboard if you happen to be typing at the moment the mainframe decided to write to your screen.

random references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#35
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#222

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Migrating pages from a paging device (was Re: removal of paging device)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Migrating pages from a paging device (was Re: removal of paging device)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 23:41:54 -0800
1) in late '70s did SYSPAG changes against vm/370 & vm/hpo bases

SYSPAG separated the structure for allocation and deallocation. allocation structure could be multiple portions of device.

page migration then supported specific (whole) device or specific allocation areas on a specific device ... which would scan all tables looking for pages resident on that specific area/device.

it was also possible to remove areas from the allocation control structure to achieve cleaning. The allocation blocks were removed before starting the migration .. with specific allocation areas removed from the allocation structure .. migration would clean off all pages for the specific area(s) ... and no new pages would get reallocated during the process. At the end of the clean/migration process there would be no pages left in the area.

It was then possible to vary off the device.

2) redid the spool file system (SFS) in the early 80s.

spool file infrastructure was modified so that each disk was effectively an independent spool file system. a specific spool file tended to be allocated on a single drive ... although it was possible to "concatenate" spool file segments that crossed volumes. spool file recovery information was unique to each disk.

at CP startup, each spool disk would be mounted separately and its spool file system integrated into the CP infrastructure. It was possible to remove drive from spool file allocation ... although still allow access to files on the disk. It was possible to more/migrate files off a spool file disk. It was possible to vary off a spool file drive whether it contained files or not. Files on a varied off device were just not available.

Spool drive with intact spool files could be varied back on and merged back into the production running system at any time.

A lot of the administrative function for SFS was rewritten in Pascal and moved to a virtual machine. One objective was for SFS to be significantly faster than the existing 370/HPO spool file system (even when kernel had to make upcalls to functions running in virtual address space). Critical to SFS having better performance was that 370&HPO managed the spool file infrastructure with link list structure ... doing linear scans for adding & deleting. This was enormously expensive for reasonably sized system. SFS implemented some things with hash table and other stuff with red/green trees. That performance improvement more than offset degradation associated with moving function out of the kernel into virtual address space.

There was also SFS pascal code support for running on unmodied CP system using the full block spool file interface (used by RSCS) to pull files out of existing spool system. These could be written to tape (similar to spool file to tape) or copy to volume in the new structure. It could also read standard spool file tapes and write to volume in the new structure.

SFS also implemented thruput enhancements for HSDT (high speed data transport). Standard RSCS interface processing 4k spool file block was synchronous .. which resulted in RSCS being blocked (non-runnable) while the 4k spool file block was read or written. WIth spool file checkpointing, lots of small files, and any device contention (for instance other apps doing any spool file activity) ... RSCS thruput could be as low as 20kbytes/sec (and difficult to get any better than 100kbytes/sec in most configurations).

HSDT had multiple full duplex T1 links; 1.5mbits/sec simplex ... about 150kbytes/sec; 300kbytes/sec full duplex per link, 3-4 links needed 1.2mbytes/sec sustained aggregate thruput. SFS provided a asynchronous interface for RSCS and did the spool file logging (checkpoint) completely different to remove it as a bottleneck also.

random URLs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#22
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#29
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#31
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33a
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33b
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#38
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#49
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#50
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#34
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#36
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#201
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#222

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler lynn@adcomsys.net, lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ http://www.adcomsys.net/lynn/

20th March 2000

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 20th March 2000
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:45:31 GMT
-- ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes:
That brings back some memories. In the early 70's, there was a PL/I program at a local service bureau which looked at MVT abends via

//SYSUDUMP DD DSN=&&DUMP,DISP=(,PASS)

etc. My ability to read dumps degraded rapidly - PL/I hardly ever produces one, unless forced.


the other one ... from the mid to late '60s ... being able to fan a compiler output "text" deck ... looking for the card to "patch" (i.e. run thru dup on 026/029 and multipunch a "fix").

misc. references.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#17

Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

OSA-Express Gigabit Ethernet card planning

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: OSA-Express Gigabit Ethernet card planning
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:02:36 GMT
jon.evans@POSTOFFICE.CO.UK (Jon Evans) writes:
Dick,

For backup, the OSA-Express feature allows multiple cards to automatically takeover the IP addresses of any other failing cards on the same box & subnet. During our testing, the takeover took about 10 secs with active FTPs. See the 'Enhanced Network Availability' section in 'OSA Express Guide and Reference'
http://www.s390.ibm.com/bookmgr-cgi/bookmgr.cmd/BOOKS/IOAEXP01/1%2e1%2e9?SHELF=IOA39009

As for balancing, at 2.8 you can't balance the inbound traffic but you can balance the outbound if the cards are on the same subnet. See IPCONFIG MULTIPATH PERPACKER or PERCONNECTION in the 'IPCONFIG Statement' section of 'OS/390 V2R8.0 SecureWay CS IP Configuration'
http://www.s390.ibm.com/bookmgr-cgi/bookmgr.cmd/BOOKS/F1AF7020/1%2e4%2e29?SHELF=F1A0BK05

Both very easy to get working. The outbound load balancing just an obeyfile to switch on/off & worked first time. The failover automatically works, I didn't actually figure a way to turn this off, not that I'd want to.

Rgds, Jon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to listserv@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO


when we first did ip takeover stuff in the late 80s when we were starting the ibm HA/CMP project ... we found a bug in many of the TCP/IP clients (many of them had been built off the 4.3 tahoe/reno distribution).

The problem was in the ARP implementation in 4.3 on the clients. Normally, ARP is suppose to "age" out the ip->MAC (aka enet or t/r) address and reload the cache with current value. However, the 4.3 code had a performance speedup in the IP code (just before checking the ARP cache) ... if the the current packet has a to-ip-address that is the same as the previous packet ... it had saved the value and bypassed calling ARP. The problem was in client/server or client/router configurations where the client tended to only communicate with the same IP-address for long periods of time. As a result, the "hip-pocket" MAC address would never change ... and wasn't subject to the ARP cache time-out rules (i.e. wasn't a problem with server ip-takeover ... but a bug in all the clients).

We would see instances where we had done the ip-address takeover at the server and 30 minutes later still had clients trying to communicate to the old MAC address. Workaround was to send all discovered clients a PING from a different IP-address. To respond, the clients would have send a packet to the different IP-address ... & would have to actually call ARP ... which would change the hip-pocket ip/MAC address. Then when the client attempted to communicate with the server again ... the ip-address in the hip-pocket had changed so ARP would have to be called ... and the current MAC address would be used.

misc. refs.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#15
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#34
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#54
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#71
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#164

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Simple authentication protocol: any good?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Simple authentication protocol: any good?
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 00:27:23 GMT
daha@best.com (David S. Harrison) writes:
I have need for a simple authentication protocol that can be used to insure that a client, speaking to a custom server, cannot be easily emulated. Due to the nature of the connection between client and server, I must assume that it is very easy to watch the traffic between the two.

we've worked with organizations for an AADS version of RADIUS ... i.e. effectively a digital signature challenge/response in radius. Radius sends something to be signed ... it gets signed and the signature returned. the server then verifies the signature using public key registered for the specific user/account (i.e. public key registered in place of password). ISPs that use RADIUS for internet access ... and use web servers that support RADIUS for client authentication ... then need only a single administrative infrastructure for authentication.

basically uses similar AADS infrastructure proposed for X9.59 financial transactions. Challenge for X9.59 was lightweight protocol for all electronic retail payments (credit, debit, e-check, prepaid, etc) that preserves the integrity of the financial infrastructure with only a digital signature. Assumptions were transaction could flow over an untrusted network and everything was subject to evesdropping ... including the account number.

misc. refs.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#inetpki
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#account
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#straw
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#keylength
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#pkikrb
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#kiss3
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsmore.htm#hcrl2
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#230
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#14
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/8583flow.htm

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Why are Suns so slow?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why are Suns so slow?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.intel,comp.arch,comp.sys.sun.misc
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:35:23 GMT
the emerging workstation market had significant better price/performance for hardware that was becoming almost commodity priced parts. the cost profile of doing unix fit the startup/companies doing these sort of hardware products (they could hardly spend more on proprietary operating system development than they were spending on hardware devleopment).

misc refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#222
http://vm.marist.edu/~piper/party/jph-12.html#wheeler

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

How to implement doubly link list with only one pointer ?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How to implement doubly link list with only one pointer ?
Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.theory
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 16:18:37 GMT
Ariel Scolnicov writes:
So now we've gone from something that's horribly un-C-like to something incredibly un-C++-like. Anybody feel like making an STL list implementation?

s/traversal object/iterator/...


i've seen XOR pointer trick used for trees also where there was a lot of ascending and descending .. have to watch for being at the bottom/end of branch & at node. Trees would get re-org'ed a lot ... but there was little in them other than some flags and a separate pointer to the actual data stuff (which lived outside of the tree structure).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:02:31 GMT
"Gerard S." writes:
VM/370). The first terminals (that I remember) used where 1050s and 1052s (as I recall, the granddaddies of the 3215), and VM also supported TTY's (ASCII). A version also supported 2260s, but I don't know if that was allowed to go to the users. When 3270s became available in the market, VM was there using them.

I did the TTY support for CP/67 while an undergraduate ..there is a tale about a bug in the code ... misc. ref
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#44

and as indicated also worked on a project that took some interdata hardware (early precursor to box used for one of the non-DEC ports of UNIX) and simulated an ibm mainframe controller (supposedly credited with originating the ibm plug-compatible market).

They were line/print (tty33 & 35) ascii terminals at 110buad ... but not too long afterwards 300 baud line terminals with heat sensitive paper & then screens (like adm3a) that simulated line terminals ... but you could play games with cursor re-positioning

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:46:34 GMT
"Gerard S." writes:
I always liked to tease the MVS bigots about LPAR just being a covered up VM; of course, they didn't believe me. You could IPL the system, and go into the appropiate console frame and see the VM IPLing (I forgot which flavor of VM is was, maybe a VM/SP modified to handle XA ?). Later of course, ESA support was added along with other stuff.

Gerard S.


3090 for the console & service processor had a pair of 4361s running a highly modified version of VM Release 6 (not even SP, hpo, etc) & all the service processor panels were driven from CMS IOS3270.

I'm sure it has had numerous modifications & enhancements since then. The basic LPAR is effectively enhanced version of the origianl VM microcode assist or, if you will, the virtual machine SIE infrastructure with some additional configuration wrappers built around it thru service processor support.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:41:07 GMT
jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes
Okkay, so what does SIE do, exactly?

on 360 & 370 it was possible to swap from supervisor state & problem state and address space mode all in a single instruction (LPSW). For XA ... that was no longer possible ... i.e. the bare bones XA architecture was much more MVS oriented where the supervisor (aka kernel) code was resident in all address spaces ... and didn't switched back & forth between kernel mode and application mode w/o having to also switch address space.

The CP/VM kernel code had its own address space and needed to be able to simultaneous switch between priviledge & non-priviledge mode while at the same time switching between the kernel address space and the application address space.

SIE was introduced in XA architecture to support CP operation ... & while they where at it they threw in various VM performance assists i.e. effectively microcode for instructions that would follow the rules for how an instruction operated in virtual machine mode ... as opposed to how it might operate natively. For simulation of a virtual machine ... CP might follow slightly different rules when simulating a priviledge instruction ... effectively those virtual machine "rules" for instruction execution was dropped into the microcode of the machine.

For those things ... it was no longer necessary for CP to simulate a priviledge instruction according to virtual machine rules ... many of the instructions ... if they were in "SIE" mode ... would automatically perform the instruction according to virtual machine rules.

LPARS ... are logical partitions ... a physical processing complex can be partition into multiple "logical" (or virtual) machines. In some sense, a logical partition alwas operates in "SIE" mode ... following the rules for instruuction execution laid down for it. Rather than actually needing VM operating system to manage the machine ... the "microcode" (aka service processor) sets up the configuration operations governing LPAR operation.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:58:41 GMT
jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes
Okkay, so what does SIE do, exactly?

load program status word was used in 360 & 370 to switch between kernel mode and virtual machine mode. CP kernel ran in "real mode" (no address translation) and supervisor mode (all instructions were executable). The address space control register pointed to the virtual address space tables and CP would use the "load real address" instruction to do virtual->real address translation before operating on virtual machine/address storage.

The target of a LPSW instruction was an 8byte field that contained the new instruction address, the supervisor/problem mode bit, and the real/virtual address (DAT, or dynamic address translation) mode bit. To start execution of a virtual machine, a LPSW instruction was executed that had a target of a virtual instruction address in the virtual address space, the supervisor/problem mode bit set to problem mode, and the DAT mode bit turned on.

All hardware interrups occured by loading an 8byte PSW field from fixed location in real storage and storing the current PSW (current instruction address & state information) in a separate real storage location . The kernel code had initialized the "new PSW" fields to a real instruction address in the kernel, supervisor/problem mode bit set to supervisor and the DAT mode bit turned off.

Any attempt to execute a "supervisor" instruction while in problem mode would result in storing the current 8byte PSW in the "OLD PSW field" in fixed real storage along with the reason for the interrupt and loading a new PSW from fixed real storage.

CP's kernel was mapped to real storage and not included in the virtual address mapping of any virtual machine. It was possible for CP to switch to virtual machine mode by first loading the appropriate address space table in the address space control register and then executing a LPSW that switched: 1) instruction address, 2) problem mode, and 3) address translation mode. Any interrupt (supervisor, program, exception, page fault, I/O, machine, timer, external, etc) would switch back to 1) cp kernel instruction address, 2) supervisor mode, and 3) non-DAT mode.

370 introduced BC/EC mode (bit 12 ... former ascii/ebcdic bit in 360 mode). in 360/BC mode, the first 8 bits of the PSW were the channel interrupt mask (if the corresponding bit was one, the processor would take I/O interrupts from that channel). In EC/mode, the channel mask was moved to a 32bit control register and replaced with a single summary bit which would disabled all I/O interrupts (or enabled the control register mask).

Following (dated '85) reference contains more detailed description of interrupts & PSW processing for CMS bc-mode operation (about half-way down the document):
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2260/vmcom25.html
http://web.archive.org/web/19961224165411/http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2260/vmcom25.html

SIE stands for "start interpretive execution"

following from:
http://www.s390.ibm.com:80/bookmgr-cgi/bookmgr.cmd/BOOKS/HCSF8A02/3%2e1%2e1%2e2?SHELF=HCSH2A08
3.1.1.2 Interpretive-Execution Facility

One of the key differences between processors that support ESA/370 or ESA/390 architectures and System/370 processors is the interpretive-execution facility. CP depends on the interpretive-execution facility to process work for virtual machines.

A virtual machine currently running under the control of the interpretive-execution facility is said to be running in interpretive-execution mode. When the virtual machine runs in interpretive-execution mode, the interpretive-execution facility:

Handles most privileged and nonprivileged instructions.

Handles the virtual interval timer, the clock comparator, and the processor timer.

Translates and applies prefixing to storage addresses. For instance, the facility performs the double-page translation required to page third-level storage into first-level storage.

Subtopics: 3.1.1.2.1 Assists Supported by the Interpretive-Execution Facility


a listing of CP performance facilities:
http://www.s390.ibm.com:80/bookmgr-cgi/bookmgr.cmd/BOOKS/HCSI1A02/2%2e1%2e4?SHELF=HCSH2A08

The online VM bookshelf is at:
http://www.s390.ibm.com:80/os390/bkserv/vm/

it is possible to select "interpretive execution" text search for VM/ESA V2 R3.0 bookshelf can be done at:
http://www.s390.ibm.com:80/os390/bkserv/vm/vm23_srch.html#text

which gets the following list:
http://www.s390.ibm.com:80/bookmgr-cgi/bookmgr.cmd/Shelves/HCSH2A08?searchRequest=interpretive+execution&action=Search

and possibly more than anybody wanted to know about LPARs:
http://www.s390.ibm.com:80/bookmgr-cgi/bookmgr.cmd/BOOKS/DA2A8003/CCONTENTS
http://www.s390.ibm.com:80/bookmgr-cgi/bookmgr.cmd/BOOKS/DA2A8004/CCONTENTS

random other refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#35a
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#71

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Digital Certificates-Healthcare Setting

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Digital Certificates-Healthcare Setting
Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:05:32 GMT
DPeiser writes:
I need to have the following functionality and wonder if anyone has developed this already for any clients:

Smartcard holding a digital certificate (private key) and health data Digital Certificate is used for accessing patient health records via the internet Ability to use a Smartcard with any PC that has a compatible card reader - certificate will be read via a web browser to identify the patient and allow access to that patient's health record There should be no record of the certificate on the PC after the patient logs out


note that a message/request can be authenticated by (digitally) signing the message with the private key. The corresponding public key is used to authenticate the digital signature (& the message).

messages typically carry some unique value in order to preclude "replays" (i.e. either the server that plans on authenticating the message provides the unique value ... or it keeps around previous messages and rejects duplicate messages that it has already processed).

public key certificates have been used in infrastructures for communicating the public key to the authenticating server ... when the authenticating server has no prior (business) relationship with the signing party (patient) &/or when the authenticating server has no local storage for maintaining records of (business) relationships (or patients).

environments where there is an existing relationship and/or the authenticating server has records regarding the requesting party (patient) ... have been able to upgrade password &/or shared-secret infrastructures to record the patient's public key for authentication purposes (i.e. instead of recording a secret password, record the patient's public key and use that public key for authenticating digital signatures ... w/o requiring a public key certificate to be transmitted along with each request).

The analogy in call center/telephone authorized access to patient records involve asking the patient things that might be found in the patient record like mother's maiden name, social security number, patient number, address, birth date, etc.

Some issues with public key certificate infrastructure are who issued the certificate and can they be trusted ... and does the bound information in the certificate correspond to any identity information found in a patient record (i.e. a certificate may be perfectly valid ... but what indicates that a specific certificate in any way correlates to a specific patient). Also, if there is too much identity information carried in the certificate ... the identity information carried in the certificate may represent privacy problems.

On the other hand ... in minimizing privacy exposures with identity certificates, if the patient record institution issued the certificate (with only a patient number), then the patient record has already recorded the patient's public key ... which would be recorded in the patient's record. In that situation, requiring the patient to transmit a copy of the certificate back to the patient record institution (in order to communicate the public key) is redundant and superfluous since the patient record institution would have the public key already record (and in fact would have the original of the public key certificate ... i.e. redundant to send a copy of a public key certificate back to the institution that has the original of the public key certificate).

In any case, the problem with making sure a certificate is not left around (and any exposure involving privacy leakage) is solved by eliminating any requirement to ahve the certificate exist at all.

recent news article on privacy leakage with identity certificates
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2523596,00.html

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Multics dual-page-size scheme

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Multics dual-page-size scheme
Newsgroups: alt.os.multics
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:02:48 GMT
"Iain McCracken" writes:
RS/6000 (Power) ---> PowerPC -- this has memory translation constructs called "segments," but they have nothing whatsoever to do with what Multicians (or even Intel programmers) call segments. Funny, I'd been under the impression that at least one IBM mainframe had segments, and that big blue had a clue as to what they are and how to implement them. Oh, well, more mud in the water...

801->romp->rios/6000/power

used segments and inverted tables. For 32bit addressing ... they limited things to fixed sized large segments; 16 256mbyte (top four bits of the virtual address).

Since there weren't any (segment) page tables ... tables were identified logically with an ID-number (managed by the supervisor) instead of a pointer to the (segment) page tables.

The original design trade-off had

1) early binding of trust at code build time and little or no run-time privilege/non-privilege in a "closed system". Effectively, in-line library code could swap segment pointer/values ... in much the same way generated code is allowed to load storage pointer values into address registers

2) small number of "concurrent" segments ... that could be mapped into efficient segment registers

3) inline code could compensate for the small number of concurrently addressable segments by being able to rapidly change segment register (id) values ... w/o having to go thru supervisor calls needed for authorization access checking (i.e. in much the same way that inline code can change values in address registers).

ROMP has been described as having 40-bit virtual addressing. It is actually 32-bit virtual address ... with the top four bits used to select a segment register. ROMP supported 12-bit segment IDs ... this translates into an aggregate total of 4096 segments for a running system and roughly corresponds to the total number of different (segment) page tables (in a page table hardware architecture ... as opposed to an inverted table architecture).

RIOS/6000/power increased the segment ID field from 12-bits to 24bits (and is sometimes described as having 52bit virtual addressing) ... again the 24bits corresponds to the total system aggregate number of page tables that could exist in a system (that used page tables ... rather than inverted tables).

So the 801/romp/power segments are different in two respects

1) need a segment "id" in an inverted table architecture instead of a page table pointer

2) small number of concurrent segments (16) mapped to hardware registers was a performance/complexity trade-off based on a design point that assumed a closed, proprietary operating system that performed early trust binding and didn't require runtime authorization checking to swap segment values (could be done using inline code as simply as changing values in address registers).

current power approach to supporting open operating system with supervisor calls & runtime authorization checking when changing segment values has been to create composite shared objects (i.e. cram multiple different feature/function/libraries into a single 256mbyte segment object). It overcomes both problem of having large number of different "shared" objects simultaneously and the overhead and (unix/application) complexity that would have been associated with frequent segment switches.

misc. refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#47
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#5
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#6
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#11
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#5
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#25
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#26
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#27

In '60s, CP/67 (concurrent with Multics but on 4th floor 545 technology sq., running on ibm 360/67) didn't really make use of the 67 segment architecture ... although TSS/360 did. 360/67 had support for one meg segments, only sixteen per address space in 24 bit mode, but 4096 in 32 bit mode.

In early '70s, VM/370 did make use of segments when the ibm 370 came out (initially done 545 tech. sq ... but then moved out to the old SBC building in burlington mall). 370 had both 2k & 4k page options and 64k & 1meg segment options. VM/370 used 4k pages & 64k segments and implemented R/O shared segments for CMS.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Multics dual-page-size scheme

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Multics dual-page-size scheme
Newsgroups: alt.os.multics
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 17:50:22 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
In early '70s, VM/370 did make use of segments when the ibm 370 came out (initially done 545 tech. sq ... but then moved out to the old SBC building in burlington mall). 370 had both 2k & 4k page options and 64k & 1meg segment options. VM/370 used 4k pages & 64k segments and implemented R/O shared segments for CMS.

oh yes ... in the '70s san jose research also implemented VM/370 DWSS (dynamic writable shared system) support for System/R (original relational database implementation). The support was part of the system/r technology transfer from sjr to endicott for ibm SQL/DS product ... but DWSS was dropped before the product actually shipped to customers.

misc. refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#18

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 22:20:12 GMT
another off-topic

the IBM STL lab (santa teresa lab) and the smithsonian aerospace museum were suppose to open the same week.

normally IBM names their labs for the closest post office ... which in this particular case was coyote (95013) ... and that was what the lab was going to be named until ...

the week before was the kids school spring break so we had taken them to washington dc for the week (along with a lot of the rest of the nation). one of the disappointments was the aerospace museum wouldn't be open until the following week.

on the other hand, the San Francisco based Coyote (aka professional ladies) union was demonstrating that week on the steps of congress ... which appears to have led to a very quick renaming of the new IBM lab from Coyote lab to Santa Teresa lab (which happens to be the closest cross street).

doing zipcode maps at http://www.mapquest.com/


Coyote post office       95013
IBM STL lab              95141 (shown wrong side of bailey av)
south San Jose PO        95123 (actually SE corner blossom hill rd
                               & blossom av)
IBM San Jose plant site  95193 (actually NE corner of cottle rd & 85)
IBM Almaden Research     95120 (harry rd isn't even on the map shown
for 95120 ... it is about two miles
                               due east of mapquest's red star ...
or if you extend cottle rd in a straight
                               line, about 1m due south of cottle rd
& santa teresa intersection).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:08:15 GMT
another facility in south san jose was called the ibm "los gatos lab" even though it was in south san jose at 6450 guadalupe mines rd. It was built in the '60s for ASD (advanced system division) and when built got some sort of architecture award. It sat on a couple hundred acres and one of its distinctive features was a special sawmill run of 5' wide redwood sheeting (over the years as inside was renovated &/or remodeled, they stockpiled the sheets since it wasn't likely they were going to get more). Many people considered it the most scenic IBM lab location (better than newer almaden research up on 55 harry road).

It was common to find a small herd of deer on the front lawn. The back patio had a foot high mesh fence built around it ... referred to as the (rattle) snake fence (which were relatively common in the spring). In the early '90s there was local TV coverage of incidences involving wild boar tearing up the lawn.

From the roof of bldg. 12 (on the san jose plant site) there were T3 collins digital radio microwave dishes going to repeater tower on hill above bldg. 29 (los gatos lab), repeater tower on hill above bldg. 90 (santa teresa lab), and directly to roofs of variouse off-site bldgs. (west of the main plant site). When research moved out of bldg. 28 to the new facility on harry road ... (at least?) six fiber pairs were run from the plant site to the new research bldg.

the los gatos lab facility was sold off a couple years ago, torn down and turned into a housing development.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 22:39:56 GMT
jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) writes:
ROFL! I would have loved to have had an opportunity to listen to the management discussions that led to the decision to change the name of the lab ... <still laughing> ... but I wonder if anyone involved in the original naming decision ever considered what would happen if a competitor built a nearby facility and named it "Roadrunner".

in the early 80s ... another computer company (since been bought up by a PC company hdqtr in houston) did take an option on a large track of farm land (for a large corporate campus) not too far from the STL lab ... but they let it lapse w/o ever building anything. This was about or near where cisco is now planning on building their new large corporate campus.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

7 layers to a program

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 7 layers to a program
Newsgroups: comp.programming
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 01:01:15 GMT
kaz@ashi.footprints.net (Kaz Kylheku) writes:
The Internet protocols can be readily identified with the third and fourth layers of OSI. TCP is a transport layer, and IP is a network layer, ARP can be considered a glue between the network and data link layers. ARP and PPP form the glue between the network and data link layers. (ARP translates between ethernet addresses in the datalink domain and IP addresses in the network domain; PPP encapsulates network traffic in a data link.) The datalink layer is represented by operating system specific drivers for network devices; the datalink and physical layers are not really part of the internet protocol per se, which is independent of datalink protocols and hardware. But the transport and network layers do fit well.

The higher layers, like presentation, session and application, are handled within middleware, network services and applications on top of TCP or UDP. For example, the exchange of cookies between your browser and a server can be considered a session layer. ;)

So you see, the correspondences are only vague to the extent that the OSI model is inherently vague. The fit between it and TCP/IP is about as good as can be expected. ;)


it internet/gosip discussion ...

IEEE80x/lan is physical, link, & much of the network layer (all collapsed together)

IP is the "internetworking" layer between network layer and the transport layer.

ARP is part of service definition for glue between the internetwork layer and the network layer (doing the translation between the internet ddress to the network address). In this respect, OSI pretty much envisioned point-to-point hardware links (link) layer and didn't provide for hardware abstraction that collapsed physical, link & network into single hardware interface.

there was some activity to do a high-speed protocol definition in ansi/iso that would have gone directly from transport interface to the lan interface ... which got "stomped" on by the OSI factions as not preserving exactly all of their OSI layered interfaces. They would have stomped out LAN violating OSI also ... if they could have.

misc. ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#4
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#1
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#8
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#10
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subindex.html#network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#201
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#202

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 17:33:05 GMT
seebs@plethora.net (Peter Seebach) writes:
In article <8e1h22$28p$1@top.mitre.org>, Joe Morris wrote: >("Saint Teresa, pray for us") John was also the author of a button >that read: > > FREE THE > FORTRAN 77

ROFL!

A local resturaunt chain, Perkins, has pancakes under the name "The Buttermilk Five". I always wanted to picket with the appropriate sign...


the processor engineers use to have a thursday after work bicycle ride ... which I got to participate periodically when I happen to be in POK (this is east coast ... not west coast) on thursdays. One of the members use to fly a kite from the roof of the 705 bldg on april 1st.

He had also made up a spoof on the position of lab director (for the plant site) ... he had pencils made up "Elect .... Lab Director" with an election slogon "Raises or Promotions, but not both". It goes w/o saying that the position of lab director was not an elected position

I may even have some of the pencils somewhere in storage.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com, finger for pgp key http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 02:20:03 GMT
dpeschel@eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) writes:
So what _programs_ run under VM, besides CP? (I'm not counting guest OSs as programs, because I thought you needed CP to IPL them.)

Note to the acronym haters following along: IPL is IBMese for "boot".

-- Derek


CP is the software that provides & manages the virtual machine operation (i.e. effectively simulates the real machine in a virtual machine environment). Essentially, any of the operating systems that can be booted on a real IBM mainframe ... can be booted in a virtual machine ... including a copy of CP itself.

Normally CP provides a virtual machine that is a replica of the real machine that CP is running on. However, there have been exceptions to that. Early in the development of 370 (which had additional supervisor state instructures and different virtual memory hardware implementation structure than 360/67) ... a copy of CP/67 was modified that provided 370 virtual machines (in place of 360 & 360/67 virtual machines).

This was at 545 tech sq ... and the operation there provided time-sharing services that included access by various MIT personel & students. To not expose & protect the unnounced 370 details ... this modified "CP-H" system was booted in a virtual 360/67 virtual machine (running under CP/67 ... running on the 360/67).

A further modification was then made to CP-H so that it would run on a real 370 machine (instead of 360/67 machine). This CP-I system was then booted in a 370 virtual machine provided by the CP-H system that had been booted in a 360/67 virtual machine provided by CP/67 running on a real 360/67.

Then "CMS" (conversational monitor system) was booted in a virtual machine provided by the CP-I system that had been booted in a 370 virtual machine provided by the CP-H system that had been booted in a 360/67 virtual machine provided ty by the CP/67 system that had been booted on the real 360/67.

This configuration was running and operational a year before the first engineering hardware model was operational. A year later, when the first engineering 370 model was up and running a copy of the "CP-I" system was booted on the machine (boot button on this machine turned out to be a knife switch rather than buttons seen on most 360s & 370s). This boot failed ... it turned out that the hardware engineers had swapped two of the new 370 instructions (the software was correct, but the hardware was wrong). After quick patch to the software, the CP-I system was re-booted on the real 370 and came up succesfully (the engineering machine implementation was eventually corrected to correspond to the hardware specifications).

The common mainframe operating systems that have been run under CP have been CMS, DOS, PCP, MFT, MVT, DOS/VS, VS1, SVS, MVS.

Other operating systems that have run under CP have been TSS/360 & TSS/370, several flavors of Unix ports, PARS/ACP/TPF (airline control program, now called transaction processing facility ... various financial networks make use of TPF in addition to the airline operations), and MTS (michigan terminal system). There were also a variety of card & tape-based "monitors" (code on tape or cards that could be booted).

More recently I believe I saw some reference to thousands of copies of Linux running concurrently under a single CP.

There are also a couple of projects that have "CP" that have been implemented on i86 architecture platfroms that provide ibm mainframe virtual machines.
http://www.funsoft.com/
http://jmaynard.home.texas.net/hercos360/

Most current IBM mainframes provide an abbreviated version of "CP" built into the machine itself that provides "LPARS" (i.e. logical partitions).

some information & background of VM/CP
http://www.leeandmelindavarian.com/Melinda/

misc. other references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#7
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#20
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#48
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#27
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#7
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#20
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#135
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#136a
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#197
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#8
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#49
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#28
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#43
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#54
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#50
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#51
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#52

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 04:14:38 GMT
Some postings from vmesa-l mailing list circa feb this year. This tests running linux images under VM/CP running in a LPAR (logical partition ... subset of the real machine resources).

...
Reason for the question: I want to see just how many Linux images I can cram onto one CP before it goes casters up.

(BTW, current count: 10,045 concurrent images. I can now duplicate any WWW hosting facility on the planet in 10x10 square feet. Admittedly, it's getting a bit sluggish with only 2 real CPUs, but wait until I get on a box where I have the FULL resources of the setup instead of a capped LPAR....8-)))
....
My test LPAR finally ran out of gas (no resources available) at:

41,400

separate Linux images. Yes, FORTY-ONE THOUSAND WWW servers on a single physical system. The last few hundred were painful as CP was fighting for resources against a LPAR cap, but it did it. I finally ran out of storage at 41K and change.


--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

definitions

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: definitions
Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:06:36 GMT
"Ken" writes:
I have a few questions about database models...

For a somewhat formal definition of the E-R data model, I know that an entity-relationship model consists of a set of objects entities and a set of relationships among those objects. I can't seem to find a definition for the relational data model. Is the relational data model simply a collection of tables (relations)? A table (relation) can be defined as a relationship among a set of values (tuple).

There are few if any databases based on the E-R data model, most are based on the relational data model. My question is: was the E-R data model created just for the sole purpose to facilitate database design? After an database schema is designed using the E-R model and diagrams, is it just simply converted into tables to fit the relational model?

I was just curious as to what the relationship between the two data models are..

Thanks, Ken


typically e-r data model is attempt to state something that is descernable &/or closer to the real world. once the e-r model is completed, then it can be translated into row&column form for regular/homogeneous data that is characteristic of relational database (normalize). it is suited for circumstances where there is a one to (large) many correspondance (account transaction activity where there there is a large number of different account numbers related to doing financial transactions).

row/column is less suited to situations where the population has much more of one-to-one correspondance ... i.e. if relationally normalized rather than having a few tables with millions of rows each ... millions of tables with few rows each.

some examples tend to the data dictionaries themselves or other information populations with complex and hetrogeneous/non-homogeneous structures. when instantiated in relational databases they tend to be non-normalized (i.e. tendency to have columns which are "relationships" ... and one or more fields in each row that give the actual relationship information).

the taxonomy/glossaries at
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

are rather trivial ... but would represent interesting problem to do as a few tables if done as fully normalized relational ... including consistent maint. of bi-directional relations ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/payment.htm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/secure.htm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x9f.htm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/financial.htm

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

oddly portable machines

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: oddly portable machines
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:18:17 GMT
jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes:
pretty much always used MG sets, producing 400 Hz 3-phase power. I can't speak to anything earlier than the 360/67, but it (and probably larger 360s, and maybe smaller ones), the 370/168, the 3033, the 3081 and 3084 (I don't know about the 3083), most 3090s, and water-cooled ES/9000s (9021-series boxes) all used motor generators.

the "cache" 370 multi-processors slowed down the machine cycle (by about 15%) to allow for cache-consistency (i.e. a processor in a multiprocessor configuration ran around 15% slower than a processor in single processor complex).

3081 came with two processors in a single box (wasn't fully redundant as the 370 configurations with two full set of everything).

ACP/TPF didn't have multiprocessor support at the time 3081 was released ... and some the airlines and various financial networks were stressing their configurations to the limit. A Q&D 15% speed up for TPF was obtained by pulling the second cpu & cache out of the 3081 box ... which resulted in the 3083 (although there were some installations where VM was used on a 3081 running two copies of TPF ... effectively one per processor).

3084 was like 370 multiprocessing in the sense that two independent boxes were lashed together using a pair of two 3081s (but resulting in 4-way instead of 2-way ... since each 3081 was integrated 2-way processing).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

oddly portable machines

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: oddly portable machines
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:25:17 GMT
Mike Orceyre writes:
The Series 1 was quite adaptable and appeared starting in the mid- 1970s in several bids and 'real' versions, sometimes with an enhanced instruction set providing additional security and integrity capabilities. At least one very large network-bid architecture assumed what amounted to 'mutually hostile' (or at least 'mutually untrustworthy') nodes; at least one

there was something of a battle to get peachtree (pre customer ship name for S/1) adapted as the mainstream mainframe communication controller. It lost out to a significantly inferior uc.5 microprocessor based product.

misc. related refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#63
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#66
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#67
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#69
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#70

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

oddly portable machines

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: oddly portable machines
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:29:43 GMT
one of the people at CSC ported spacewar to 1130/2250m4 (aka m4 was the 1130-based 2250 model) in the late '60s ... the 2250 keyboard was split into left & right half for player controls. some of the associated 1130 effort also involved tieing the 1130 to the 360/67 resulting in cpremote, the precursor to vnet, the internal network and bitnet.

misc. references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#112

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

looking for December 1974 RFC 675, "Specification of Internet Transmission Control Protocol"

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: looking for December 1974 RFC 675, "Specification of Internet Transmission Control Protocol"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.internet,alt.internet
Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 23:45:39 GMT
"Nathan Burgess" writes:
Hello All,

I'm looking for a copy of the December 1974 RFC 675, "Specification of Internet Transmission Control Protocol."

From the research I've gathered it is the first written document to contain the word internet. I have not been able to find it on the net, or anywhere IRL.

If you know of a source, have a copy, etc. Please contact me by email.

Thank you in advance,

nb


take a look at the IETF RFC repository ... from my index page:
675
Specification of Internet Transmission Control Program, Cerf V., Dalal Y., Sunshine C., 1974/12/01 (70pp) (.txt=156874)


at
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm

the pointer to 675 is:
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc675.txt

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

oddly portable machines

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: oddly portable machines
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 04:22:43 GMT
Mike Orceyre writes:
breakthrough, IIRC, sort of like the laughable SBS ground station switching/multiplexing equipment... Like using a buggy whip with your Lamborghini. How dull. /Mike

note that much of the non-RF of the SBS ground station was dictated by the same group responsible for the uc.5 decision. on the other hand, SBS had 3 owners ... at least one of them contributing significant number of the employees & the management structure (14 levels of management is one thing for organization with >450k employees ... but applied to organization with approx. 2k employees resulted in something like half the employees being director level or above).

I did get to work on design of new ground station as part of HSDT and was built by completely different companies for straight high performance digital.

misc. other references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#49
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#34
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#115
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#201
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#19
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#27
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#43

& repost from http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33b ... the referenced newsgroup was initiated by the same group associated with the uc.5 decision.

As I mentioned in prior postings ... telecommuting implies that person location & work becomes distance insensitive (world-wide ... or even further as some people are found of thinking about). info services have always been to some extent distance insensitive ... but the world-wide deployment of newer high-speed data transport (in the early '80s I ran a project & coined the term HSDT ... high-speed data transport) technology significantly exacerbates the situation.

Speaking of HSDT, in the mid-80s we were contracting for equipment for parts of the HSDT project from some companies in Japan. On the Friday before I was to leave for a meeting, somebody (in the US) announced a new newsgroup on high-speed data communication including in the posting the following definitions:


      low-speed               <9.6kbits
medium-speed            19.2kbits
high-speed              56kbits
very high-speed         1.5mbits

On Monday morning on the wall of a conference room in Japan was:

low-speed               <20mbits
      medium-speed            100mbits
high-speed              200-300mbits
      very high-speed         >600mbits

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Maximum Length of an URL

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Maximum Length of an URL
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 15:57:09 GMT
CAM writes:

A clue regarding enterprise servers is at:
http://help.netscape.com/kb/corporate/19971110-3.html
A further clue is at:
http://www.forwiss.uni-passau.de/~englmait/html4/types.html#type-cdata
Which leads to "Uniform Resource Locators", by T. Berners-Lee, L. Masinter, and M. McCahill, December 1994.
Available at http://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc1738.txt.
Normative References are at
http://www.forwiss.uni-passau.de/~englmait/html4/references.html#h-1.1

Default User wrote:

> I having been trying to find out whether or not there is a maximum
> length of an URL. The only things I could find in the RFC's were the
> allowable character sets.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ian
> butt@nortelnetworks.com


it has been quite awhile since ds.internic.net (at&t) has been funded, plain internic.net is still around (rs.internic.net, registration).
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1738.txt

should work tho.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Database" term ok for plain files?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Database" term ok for plain files?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 18:54:55 GMT
lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (lwin) writes
We used "dataset" for both, and it was confusing. The Bell supplied modems were called "datasets", and IBM JCL then and NOW uses the term to mean a file.

i don't know the early reasons ... disk had VTOCs (volume table of contents) which pointed to datasets (sets of data?) which could be primary (contiquous) allocation & possibly some number of extents (secondary allocations).

There were a variety of dataset organizations ... within the contiguous allocation & extent areas (sequential, partitioned, indexed, etc).

i could see phone company handsets morphing into datasets ... as well as computer sets of data morphing into datasets.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Microsoft boss warns breakup could worsen virus problem

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Microsoft boss warns breakup could worsen virus problem
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 02:06:46 GMT
ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes:
Way back in in the early '70s, I argued that employees should be given computer time for learning. In those days, a service bureau could charge $1,200 Cdn per hour for CPU time plus I/O etc. on a 360-85! My account was SHPD1, SoftwareHouse Personal Development 1.

I had gotten copy of adventure within a couple months of it appearing ... & made it available for the internal network ... and then succesfully argued that lots of people should be exposed to it since it represented an improved user interface (compared to many of the ..business.. applications of the day).

misc. references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#56
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#52
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#83
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#112

on the other hand ... somebody claimed that for an extended period, adventure was responsible for 1/3rd of all activity at the STL data processing complex (in one of the above references ... it was somebody from STL that took the fortran version of adventure and did a 450pt PLI version). There were similar problems at other labs, but i never heard anybody quote exact numbers (lots of people considered adventure a virus since it suckered people into invoking it and then consumed large quantities of their time).

random ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#56

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Scheduling aircraft landings at London Heathrow

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Scheduling aircraft landings at London Heathrow
Newsgroups: sci.op-research,comp.ai.genetic
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 16:24:49 GMT
Robin Becker writes:
Since optimality is generally the enemy of robustness/stability do these traffic improvement models have constraints to guarantee levels of safety?

tightly scheduled may not allow for self-repairing. I remember being scheduled to go from San Jose to Boston with a connection at Ohare. The flight was due to leave San Jose at 7am (pst) ... but we were delayed on the ground for an hour (after we were on the plane) because of a thunderstorm that had just gone thru the Ohare airport area.

The thunderstorm lasted an hour in the Chicago area and had reduced landing capacity/frequency at the airport by about 75% during that hour. Six hours later, planes schedules were up to 4 hrs late and delays were increasing. The whole operation appeared to be non-stable with severe negative feedback.

The only factor that seems to allow the infrastructure to eventually recover is the midnight to 5am period with little or no scheduled traffic.

It is possible to create self-repairing, stable, optimized infrastructures, but frequently such issues are overlooked.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Scheduling aircraft landings at London Heathrow

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Scheduling aircraft landings at London Heathrow
Newsgroups: sci.op-research,comp.ai.genetic
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 03:50:48 GMT
"Jerry Harder" writes:
Airports are extremely expensive to build so duplication would be an extremely expensive solution. Chicago is a good example, since Midway handles many domestic flights. However, Midway cannot handle the larger jets and has no facilities, at least as far as I remember, to handle international flights with their requirements on landing to process passengers through Customs and Immigration. In addition, if the weather is bad in one part of a metropolitan area, the odds are high that it is bad in all other parts.

i have worked on some of the associated issues ... misc. ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#61

the specific ohare issue appeared to be something like 45 minutes or so of lost landing capacity early in the day ... was not a stable situation and that problems tended to be magnified during the course of the day (8-10 hrs later) . I don't think it was just runways ... but gates, gate staff, etc (find the plane diverted to the south 40 parking lot until a gate clears). I don't imagine that runways and approaches are operating at 100% capacity thru-out the day (the take-off delay queue at most airports tend to vary during course of the day ... form zero to long lines).

Infrastructure should at least attempt to eliminate the magnification of problems over time ... and preferrably somewhat self-repairing.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

BASIC SMTP questions

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: BASIC SMTP questions
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:26:03 -0700
At 12:01 AM 5/3/2000 -0500, Automatic digest processor wrote:
I am over the hurdle of the '@' problems. By the way both the backslash

and double quote work- I forgot to change my escape character to something other than double quote (DUH).I do have some very basic SMTP mail questions. (1) Where are the RFC's (RFC821, RFC822, etc.) documented?


check
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc821.txt
ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc822.txt

etc.

also
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm

has a keyword/term index for RFCs ... including RFCs related to SMTP.
(2) How do I get the SUBJECT: put into the mail as a subject recognizable to the receiving mail server? I didn't see anything in the sendfile help.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler lynn@adcomsys.net, lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ http://www.adcomsys.net/lynn/

Rainbow Series (a hard item to find..)

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Rainbow Series (a hard item to find..)
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:33:53 GMT
"Coy" writes:
Looking for original hardback copies of the Rainbow Series. (Trusted Computer System Evaluation Criteria | TCSEC )

As I'm sure most of you know, these books have stopped publication back in Feb of 1997.

However, I am in search for anyone who is selling or giving theirs away =D or if they know anyone who is still publishing these books.

Any helpful info would be appreciated

Thanks again..

Coy.


have you tried:
http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/library/rainbow/index.html

they aren't all online ... but reasonable selection

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

write rings

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: write rings
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:08:00 GMT
ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) writes:
Most Multics systems, and many GECOS/GCOS systems, were left running unattended for weekends and holidays. Unit record and dismountable devices were set to be unavailable, and the system just kept cranking. That was my reference. Loading or unloading timesharing (or varying its size) because of the number of users isn't something that has to be an operator function. Starting and stopping batch job queues doesn't have to be done by human hands. For that matter, neither does rebooting if the system crashes.

misc refernces:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#17
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#44
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#71
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#72
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#86
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#87
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#107
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#137

one of the primary things in late '60s leaving cp/67 up and running 7x24 was redoing telecommunication I/O sequence to include Prepare. The problem was that if there appeared to an active I/O (even waiting for keystroke input from a terminal) ... the cpu meter would continue to run (in the days of rented/leased machines) ... even if the cpu was idle. Letting the cpu meter stop, even when the system was available ... made a huge difference in the monthly rental rate for early 7x24 operation (getting 4th shift billing down to less than 5% of 1st shift rates).

& tom's reference to automatic re-ipl/boot:
http://www.lilli.com/360-67 (corrected)
http://www.multicians.org/thvv/360-67.html

with bug in my TTY support code (and adverse interaction with some local MIT code) causing 27 crashes in a single day (and multics comparison taking an hour to reboot after a crash).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Database" term ok for plain files?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Database" term ok for plain files?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:13:37 GMT
ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) writes:
"Disks"? Don't you mean DASD, Direct Access Storage Devices, Lynn? IBM never had "disks," did they?

ehr


so they created syntactic confusion ... inventing different words for common stuff ... and using other words to mean completely different things; like SNA ... an acronym for System Network Architecture ... applied to a telecommunication control program ... and was not a System, was not a Network, and was not an Architecture (can you have a triple oxymoron?).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Database" term ok for plain files?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Database" term ok for plain files?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:17:53 GMT
lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (lwin) writes:
I thought SNA was the type of data communication hook up. It was sychronous (as opposed to async which what we use to dial up from home), but different than the older "bi-sync" they used. In that sense, I would think it was a 'network architecture' which is about the same thing as 'communications protocol'.

In other words, you had an "SNA" box at one end, and another SNA box at the other end.


there really wasn't much of anything that could be considered SNA box ... there were boxes that spoke bi-sync & sdlc and some other stuff. There was VTAM & NCP ... and much of the rest was hype of one sort or another.

misc. network vis-a-vis SNA discussion
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#53
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#51

there were all sorts of battles with the communication division ... starting with telecommunication box clones, peachtree vis-a-vis uc.5, big fights to prevent any sort of TCP/IP activity, then strenuous battle to try and divert to OSI (along the lines of some of the GOSIP stuff), and then some funny things claiming to support TCP/IP (but as poorly as possible, when they were finally forced to provide vtam-based tcp/ip implementation ... it had to be rewritten so that tcp/ip thruput was significantly worse than LU6.2 ... rather than signficantly better).

for description of some of the tcp/ip stuff
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#85

misc. refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#12
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#36
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#44
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#66
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#67
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#70
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#195
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#7
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#66
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#69
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

write rings

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: write rings
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:09:42 GMT
jmfbahciv writes:
An _hour_ to reboot? You're joking, aren't you?

check-out URL ... basically filesystem integrity checking ... I've seen some large Unix filesystems that could also take an hour to check (also remember Unix is a take-off on Multix).

In CMS case, it did metadata shadowing on update and then rewrote the single master file directory (MFD) record indicating which metadata was correct. It turned out that there was a specific failure mode where a problem could occur in the middle of a disk write and leave the MFD corrupted (not in consistent before state or consistent after state). The CMS extended filesystem (circa '74) had a pair of MFD records, with version numbers that it would alternate write to.

One of the specific problems were disk infrastructures that didn't have sufficient power to guarantee completion of a disk write during a power failure. If a power failure occured at just exactly the right moment it was possible for only part of a disk record write to finish. It was one of those early '70s problems ... fixing software infrastructure to improve integrity in the scenerio of power failures resulting in partial disk record writes.

A standard partial disk write would at least would have an error indication when rereading the disk record (the ECC at the end of the record wouldn't correspond to the data read for the record). A pathelogical case involved the whole computer infrastructure. The disk would have enough power (in the case of a power failure in the middle of a write) to complete the disk write ... and write the correct disk ECC, but there wasn't enough power to continue to transfer the record data from the computer memory to the disk controller (or even to continue to power the computer memory). In this pathelogical case, the disk write would complete & a correct ECC would be written ... but the trailing part of the record would consist of all zeros (i.e. the disk controller would just fill in zeros if it stopped receiving data from the computer memory during power failure for a disk record write in progress). In this case, there wouldn't even be an error indication reading the record during recovery.

Many/most disk drives today guarantee correct record write completion (or a read error indication), individual records cached locally.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

write rings

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: write rings
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:16:33 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
controller would just fill in zeros if it stopped receiving data from the computer memory during power failure for a disk record write in progress). In this case, there wouldn't even be an error indication reading the record during recovery.

the version number for logical records would be in the very last bytes of the record ... any situation involving zeros propagated disk write would result in the same or lower version number. If it was the same version number (because of zeros propagation just involving part of the version number part of the record), then the rest of the record would be correct and consistency would be preserved regardless of which record was chosen (although the latest changes might available but possibly discarded).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

write rings

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: write rings
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:41:59 GMT
westinnospam@graphics.cornell.edu (Stephen H. Westin) writes:
Well, the VAX with battery memory backup was able to retry all disk I/O that was in progress when power failed. Which seems like a pretty reliable mechanism.

in the 60s where typical computer room may have spanned more than a football field ... and core memory was so expensive there was no local caching ... data was transferred directly from processor memory thru the cable infrastructure to the disk controller thru its cable infrastructure to the actual disk. Processor complex in the center of the room could have 150'-200' cable stretching out in various directions. CSC's complex was rather modest 360/67 with 45 2314 disk drives and took up about 1/2 the 2nd floor at 545 tech. sq. Even the PDUs and the chillers were quite large boxes ... along the walls. Complex had a huge power draw.

I don't know of any of these complexes being battery configured (possibly the FAA systems were/are?).

I know some current complexes with sophisticated PDUs and large diesel generators. They have very large basement room somewhere that can cover from the power interruption until the diesel kicks in.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

write rings

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: write rings
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:02:13 GMT
don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
You said core memory. Core doesn't need battery backup to do powerfail recovery. BBUs on MOS memory machines were largely to emulate the behaviour of systems with core memory...

this is for disk write in progress ... you needed power to read the memory ... dump it down 200' of cable to disk controller and then the disk controller down the cable to the disk. In Power drop there was enuf power for the disk to complete the write ... but there were situations where there wasn't enuf power to continue reading the data from memory and sending down the cable (to the disk) ... so the disk write would complete with just propagating zeros until the end of the write.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

write rings

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: write rings
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:45:58 GMT
albaugh@agames.com (Mike Albaugh) writes:
Another of my "favorite" mis-features was a mini we had at school (U.C. Berkeley). I _think_ it was a DG Nova, but I

another UCB story i've heard was the 10am(?) tuesday failures of the cdc6600. they supposedly eventually figured out that the grass was being watered at that time which coincided with a class break and lots of things flushing ... which dropped water pressure to the computer room cooling units.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Mainframe power failure (somehow morphed from Re: write rings)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Mainframe power failure (somehow morphed from Re: write rings)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:24:20 GMT
jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) writes:
Glossary: PDU := Power (and sometimes coolant also) Distribution Unit. A PDU could be the size of a very large home refrigerator.

about a year ago i toured a large datacenter. they made a point of pointing out the PDUs. I don't remember all the details but this was apparently the top of the line model and that a couple years ago they had some problems in slight fluctuations (tens of milliseconds?) with cut-over during power failure. They hired two engineering firms to redesign the PDU & work with the PDU manufacturer. When it was done they turned over all rights to the PDU manufacturer. There was some statement that there were then on the order of 1000 of the new PDUs installed in the WashDC area alone. These PDUs were more like 4'-6' wide.

diverse routing is common for both power & telco ... also making sure access is from opposite sides of the building ... backhoes can cause all sorts of problems.

when we were doing ha/cmp ... we talked to somebody that had found a building in manhatten that had telco from four different central exchanges entering the building from four different directions, two separate water mains into different sides of the building, two separate power from different power grids entering the building from different directions. They considered it quite a find. THey actually wanted two of these in different parts of the city.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

write rings

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: write rings
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:55:43 GMT
jcmorris@jmorris-pc.MITRE.ORG (Joe Morris) writes:
The one scenario I can think of would be if the cooling system was monitoring the pressure of the lines used for make-up water (the same lines used for flushing) and went into alarm state when the pressure there dropped.

i know that the units for 360/67 machine room on 2nd floor of 545 tech sq. had a 6inch pipe that dumped water directly into cambridge sewer system well into the mid-70s. When they started looking at closed system there was some issue whether the roof at 545 tech sq could take the weight of the water tank. I'm not sure if they ever did put a tank on that roof for a closed system .. they may have moved down to new bldg. at 101 main before getting a closed system.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Motorola/Intel Wars

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Motorola/Intel Wars
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:36:54 GMT
"Robert J. Stevens" writes:
Now Your Talking My Language. Just a few Yearsd ago I got intp consulting and two Places were looking for an EDL/EDX Programmer and my Name kept coming up. Made enough to be able to retire. Loved it but some people just couldn't get it. The S/1 could run rings around any computer made if you knew how to program it. In fact the Series/1 is still being used overseas and ther is an emulator that runs on the RISC 6000. I still have two machines in the Basement which I have to get fired up this summer. Both of them are wired for 110v so that should not be to difficult. Bob in Wisconsin

There was the joke about "official" RPS system S/1 was done by 360/MFT refugees that moved from Kingston to Boca ... who were trying to recreate MFT on a 16bit machine.

The EDX folklore, it was done by a summer intern for a couple physicists doing lab stuff at san jose research.

random other refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#66
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#79
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#64
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#71
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#63
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#66
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#67
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#69
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#70

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

write rings

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: write rings
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 16:05:15 GMT
ehrice@his.com (Edward Rice) writes:
> http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#137

Uh, Lynn? You want to narrow that down just a little? I do love reading your archives, it's almost always educational and fun, but that reference is to a list of hundreds of links to articles, and I do have /some/ life outside of answering this one article of yours.


finger slip (no such reference, so you got the start of the archive), try
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#137

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

"Database" term ok for plain files?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: "Database" term ok for plain files?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 17:56:42 GMT
Brian Inglis writes:
I think the intent of the name SNA may have been to indicate that it was dependent on a central host system for operation. It was the set of protocols used by IBM comm gear to talk to the host. Later relaxed to allow some peer-to-peer functions with LU6.2 APPC then APPN.

The SNA group non-concurred with APPN announcement and support for peer-to-pear and networking. The original APPN announcement was delayed 6 weeks while the dispute was resolved and the announcement letter was rewritten so there would be no confusion whether APPN was part of SNA.

There was some speculation that a lot of SNA was motivated by some work that I had done as an undergraduate.

misc. ref.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#2
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#14
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#51

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Question regarding authentication implementation

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Question regarding authentication implementation
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:07:03 GMT
Abid Farooqui writes:
A colleague of mine has developed using BSAFE libraries a security application that does authentication at connection startup and encryption when data is transferred. The client certificates, Root certificates and client or partner certificates are stored in so called queue. When you load a client/partner certificate you can VERIFY that certificate against a list of available CA Root certificates that you already have in the queue. This is a completely separate step and is done in a non-active manner, meaning this happens way before the client/partner is establishing any kind of connection to you. Now, that you have a clinet/partner certificate loaded into a queue ... when the client/partner establishes connection to you, he/she will send a NONCE(Dummy message) signed with his/her private key to prove his identity to you. When you receive the NONCE, you can try and decrypt it using this partner's Public Key that you have already loaded into the queue, if it decrypts etc. etc. then it must be the partner because only

note that a certificate queue can be viewed as an account database ... and the public key and the associated id information represents an account record.

if this information is pre-loaded ... then there is no need to transfer certificate(s) as part of each transaction.

a simple version of this was demonstrated at PC/EXPO a couple years ago as "AADS" Radius ... i.e. Radius upgraded so that public key was registered in the Radius id database ... and a signed transaction (containing userid, time, & a couple other pieces) ... in place of userid/password sequence.

the pre-loading can even be done w/o certificates of any kind ... in the Radius case ... basically substitute the password registration process with a public key registration process. it has the advantage of eliminating shared-secret ... vis-a-vis existing userid/passwords.

misc. references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#kiss3
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#14
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/draft-wheeler-ipki-aads-01.txt

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

A note on the culture of database

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: A note on the culture of database
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:18:38 GMT
-- spinoza9999 writes:
However, in actual practice, MIS bureaucracies systematically and silently undercut top management goals in actually implementing this vision in order to preserve their position. This will typically be at key chokepoints of the data base system.

we worked with several large corporations ... typical was that once the complexity of a RDBMS reached some treshold ... it was cloned. One organization figured that they had >6000 different RDBMS with approx. 90% of the data common. This led to all sorts of data integrity problems (i.e. mailing address might occur in hundred different databases).

the symptons wasn't that anybody was trying to undercut top management goals ... but RDBMS normalization appears to be non-linear complexity problem ... past some threshold ... the process exceeded the organization's aggregate intellectual capacity. The executives weren't going to give anybody the time, funding &/or resources to address the complexity problems.

Even the concept of trying to integrate possibly a hundred applications per database across the 6000 databases and hundreds of business units also is a major complexity effort ... having an organization that could have managed the complexity issues of single integrated environment rather than the divide and conquer solution.

More recently had a project to do data-cleaning on large production database. Part of the database was a large number of fields that the executives and product owners required to represent hierarchical relationships between large number of different entities. When it was set-up ... there wasn't an application that was actually dependent on the values representing hierarchical organization. However, sometime later a new application was developed that was actually dependent on having a hierarchical relationships ... only to find out the executives, business owners, product managers, and account representatives ... when they had a need to represent a mesh infrastructure perverted the field values to their own business use ... and those nasty MIS bureaucracies didn't prevent them.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Question regarding authentication implementation

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Question regarding authentication implementation
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:11:03 GMT
Abid Farooqui writes:
My colleague is certainly not doing this because when the certificate queue is loaded, he strips off everything from the certificate and only the public key is loaded and hence there is little chance that he is verifying the validity of the digital signature by referring to the contents of the accompanying certificate as he does not actually have the whole certificate loaded into the queue, only the public keys. Also keep in mind that we are selling this product and claiming that it uses CADS model (Certificate Authority Digital Signature model) and not AADS (Account Authority Digital Signature model) whose draft I believe is submitted to IEEE by First Data Corp and I am not sure of the status of the draft at this point. Anyway my question remains, is my colleagues practices and logic in accordance with the traditional PKI practices and procedures (CADS model). If not then I have to raise a red flag. Any input in this regard is appreciated. Sincerely, Abid Farooqui

The CADS model has been considered to have grown out of offline email requirement in the early to mid 80s where an end-user connected to the network, downloaded their email, and disconnected. They then was left with the opportunity of validating the email in a standalone, end-user environment with little or no business and supporting infrastructure. There was also high possibility that the incoming email was from source that the receiver had no little or prior business knowledge.

The AADS model somewhat grew out of situation involving existing business and supporting infrastructures that are already in place for authentication ... but may have been shared-secret based (ISP password login, radius password , PIN debit financial transaction, web server password login, call-center asking for mother's maiden name &/or SSN, datacenter password login, etc). These environments also tended to have business infrastructures that dealt primarily with other entities for which they had existing &/or prior business relationships (you logged into an established userid, signed in as an employee, accessed existing financial account).

In this scenerio, a certificate attached to every message & transaction represented stale, redundant and superfluous copy of information that was being maintained in the businesses account records (or business equivalent that represented established relationship between the parties).

Some of the situations also had other business requirements, like existing message traffic was in 60-80 byte range in a network operating at near capacity. Appending a 1000+byte certicate to a large number of such messages not only represented stale, redundant and superfluous information transfer ... but also a heavy infrastructure traffic burden.

An certificate analogy is letters of credit/introduction in the days of sailing ships prior to telephones, faxes, and online environments (i.e. the stale, redundant information in a certificate can enable distributed, offline authentication for environments that don't have online realtime access to the original copy of the information).

X9.59 is an ANSI financial industry draft standard for all account-based electronic retail payments that can be deployed using an AADS model ... i.e. existing business relationships, online realtime access to the database processing factilities that instantiate the business relationships, existing relatively small messages sizes with high capacity existing networks than periodically operate near saturation where certificate represents stale, redundant and superfluous information transmission as well as several hundred percent message size bloat.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Question regarding authentication implementation

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Question regarding authentication implementation
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:52:32 GMT
as an aside, NIST in the past has written standards from scratch like FIPS-186 for authentication, digital signatures standards. NIST has a statement someplace that says that it will be considering the direct adoption of industry standards for FIPS. FIPS-186-2 and X9.62 had a lot of work done in common.

in any case the other way of looking at it is basd on X9F1 work on x9.68 certificate compression, i.e. if the receiving/relying party already has the information, the field can be compressed out of the certificate. AADS with knowledge analysis of the business process shows 100% field compression resulting in zero byte certificates (i.e. certificates aren't eliminated, they are reduced to zero bytes).

The other scenerio is the certificate chain attachment. Certificates that the receiving/relying party can reasonably be expected to have/obtain, can be eliminated from the certificate chain (say in SSL protocol where the browser already has database of self-signed root certificates). If various AADS scenerios, where the receiving/relying party can be shown to already have all the certicates ... then the certificate chain can be compressed to zero certificates.

misc. refs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ansiepay.htm#aadsnwi2
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#36
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#37
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#39
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#40
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#41
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#42
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#45
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#46
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#47
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#48
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#40

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/


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