List of Archived Posts

2014 Newsgroup Postings (09/10 - 10/09)

only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?
only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
Demonstrating Moore's law
No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984
Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems
Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems
Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems
No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Question concerning running z/OS LPARs under z/VM
Cyberspace KISS
MVS
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
High CPU Utilized
How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea
Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
OT this guy salary one dollar
Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea
Neon vs. incandescent indicator lights; The Lonely Computer; electron excitement
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
zOS 1.13 – CPU latent demand
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
a couple old ibm picutres
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
*uix web security
Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
HP splits, again
Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?
Do we really need 64-bit addresses or is 48-bit enough?
HP splits, again
Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?
HP splits, again
HP splits, again
HP splits, again
HP splits, again
Do we really need 64-bit addresses or is 48-bit enough?
HP splits, again

only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:59:47 -0700
"Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> writes:
I was half listening to C-Span a few days ago, an interview with the author of a book on the meltdown. If I heard it right, the ratings agencies were now saying that they were kind of like _Motor Trend_, it's just opinion. That's hilarious.

And I would bet the ratings agencies still have official US governent sanction, not necessarily by name but wording that can only lead you to them.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#105 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

the oct2008 congressional hearings into the pivotal role that the rating agencies played had testimony (including former & current employees) that both the rating agencies and the sellers knew that the toxic CDOs weren't worth triple-A (but the rating agencies were being paid to give triple-A rating). business news commentator at the time said that the rating agencies would likely avoid federal prosecution by blackmailing the gov. with threat of rating downgrade.

note that Sarbanes-Oxley,
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#sarbanes-oxley

passed in the wake of Enron,
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#enron

claimed that it would prevent future Enron/worldcoms and guarantee that executives and auditors responsible for filing public company financial filings with incorrect numbers would do jail time. however, it required that SEC do something ... possibly because even GAO didn't believe SEC was doing anything, GAO started doing reports of public company fraudulent financial filings ... even showing they increased after Sarbanes-Oxley ... and nobody doing jail time.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#financial.reporting.fraud

note that Sarbanes-Oxley also had provision that SEC do something about the rating agencies (jokes about SEC is wallstreet's best friend).

But then there was also the congressional Madoff hearings that had the person that had tried unsuccessfully for a decade to get SEC to do something about Madoff (SEC hands were forced when Madoff turned himself in).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#madoff
regulatory capture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#regulatory.capture

part of the rating agency testimony was that their business process became misaligned in the early 70s when they switched from the buyers paying for the ratings to the sellers paying for the ratings. I've mentioned before that one of the early virtual machine based online service bureaus (moving upstream into financial information) had bought the pricing services division from one of the rating agencies in the early 70s (rude jokes that rating agencies no longer needed to correctly value what they were rating). They were briefly mentioned in Jan2009 when there was still the fiction that TARP funds would be used to buy toxic assets (and this company would be involved in doing toxic asset valuation).

securitized mortgages had been used in the S&L mess to obfuscate fraudulent mortgages. In the late 90s, we were asked to look at improving the integrity of the supporting documents in securitized mortgages. However, paying for triple-A ratings, they could no start doing no-documentation (no-down, interest-only, liar) mortgages; aka triple-A trumps supporting documents ... and w/o supporting documents ... there was no longer issue of supporting document integrity.

There were even some whining about not being able to correctly evaluate toxic CDOs because they were so complex .... but it was mostly because there was no supporting documents. The other problem was only $700B allocated for TARP and end of 2008, just the four largest too big to fail were still holding $5.2T in toxic assets
Bank's Hidden Junk Menaces $1 Trillion Purge
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=akv_p6LBNIdw&refer=home

... which were being valued at 20 cents on the dollar. There wasn't enuf TARP funds to take the assets off the books at face value ... and wouldn't even cover buying them at 20 cents on the dollar (which would have also resulted in the institutions being declared bankrupt and forced to liquidate). posts mentioning toxic CDOs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#toxic.cdo

Also from the law of unintended consequences ... w/o supporting documents they couldn't do foreclosures ... so the institutions setup robo-signing operations to generate fraudulent supporting documents. recent posts mentioning robo-signing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#46 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#70 Obama Administration Launches Plan To Make An "Internet ID" A Reality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#54 Has the last fighter pilot been born?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#111 Maine Supreme Court Hands Major Defeat to MERS Mortgage Registry
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#14 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives

other trivia ... there had previously been standards meetings for supporting documents held at one of the mortgage industry lobbying groups (across the park from IMF and Worldbank in DC) ... which may have been part of the path to MERS.

recent posts mentioning TARP:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#54 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#55 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#98 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#2 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#7 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#8 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#29 Royal Pardon for credit unions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#34 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#0 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#2 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#9 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#60 GAO and Wall Street Journal Whitewash Huge Criminal Bank Frauds
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#21 Thomas Piketty Is Right About the Past and Wrong About the Future
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#78 Did these tech and telecom companies assess the risk and return with respect to Anti-Money Laundering challenges?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#94 Why Financialization Has Run Amok
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#37 Married Couples and the Financial Mess
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#111 Maine Supreme Court Hands Major Defeat to MERS Mortgage Registry
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#14 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#15 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#3 How Comp-Sci went from passing fad to must have major

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:23:19 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
That seems to be the pattern for US industry in general. A reasonably profitable company is used as a piggy bank to buy someone else, speculate in derivatives or Antarctic gold stocks, etc. rather than putting the money back to at least maintain competitiveness, to say nothing of improve manufacturing or develop new products. After the money has been drained off the company is sold.


http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#105 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#0 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

it starts with borrowing money to buy the company, loot the company, including putting the original purchase loan on the company books. some analogy to "house flipping" except rather than paying off the original purchase loan ... it is left on the company books. observation was that the industry was associated with junk bonds during the S&L crisis ... but in an attempt to improve their image in the early 90s, they changed the industry name to "private equity" ... and "junk bonds" became "high-yield bonds". Recent articles that over half of corporate defaults are companies that are currently or previously had been put through the private equity mill (a company going in with $2B in debt can come out of the "private equity" mill with $30+B in debt).

past posts mentioning private equity industry
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#private.equity

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?

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From: lynn@garlic.com
Subject: Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?
Date: 11 Sept, 2014
Blog: Mainframe Experts
x-over thread in ibm-main mailing list (originated on univ. bitnet in the 80s) "Demonstrating Moore's law" ... recent discussion about mainframe processor sales since about the turn of the century ... stated in number of max. mainframe configuration equivalents (annual sales, divided by price of max. configured system) .... tending to be around 133-166 max. configured system equivalents per year ... until recently when it dropped to less than 60/year.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#90

part of the discussion was whether there could have been much larger number of much smaller configured systems (less expensive per system). however, it appears that majority of sales during the period was in the financial industry doing max. configured systems.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#91

part of the issue was Jim Gray's work formalizing transaction semantics giving financial auditors significant higher degree of confidence in computer records.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#96

during the celebration of Jim's life held at Berkeley (after his disappearance) his formalization of transaction semantics was credited with being major factor in ATM cash machines and e-commerce (some gone 404, but live on at wayback machine)

http://web.archive.org/web/20080628072414/http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/IPRO/JimGrayTribute/index.html
ACM (dbms) SIGMOD tribute
http://www.sigmod.org/publications/sigmod-record/0806

Jim was also instrumental in creating TPC financial transaction benchmarks
http://www.tpc.org/information/who/gray.asp

Part of the mainframe issue is that it is trying to maintain its premium pricing for high value, high integrity computation (major player in high value financial operations, transaction semantics with ACID properties).

Major portion of server chip production is now going to big megadatacenters (a single megadatacenter can have more processing than the aggregate of all mainframes in the world today). They have driven the cost of server systems down so far that they can afford to have ten times nominal processing capacity for "on-demand" peak use ... and an increasingly major cost factor is now power&cooling (not the actual systems).

Mainframe processing system cost is several hundred thousand per BIPS while megadatacenter, doing their own custom server assemblies, are pushing $1/BIPS.

Mainframe channel FICON is heavy-weight protocol layer on top of industry standard fibre-channel, that drastically reduces throughput (compared to native fibre-channel throughput; for instance the latest high-performance, high-capacity tapes aren't even announced for mainframes). some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon

IBM CKD DASD hasn't been manufactured for decades, but premium priced simulation built on industry standard fixed-block disks. some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dasd

IBM financials has the mainframe group earning over six times total revenue for every hardware processor dollar (large fees for software, services, and storage) ... increasing mainframe operational costs from several hundred thousand per BIPS to millions per BIPS.

other posts in the ibm-main thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#2 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#4 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#5 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#6 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#7 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#8 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#9 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#10 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#11 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#12 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#13 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#15 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#16 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#17 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#20 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#46 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#85 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#86 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#87 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#89 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#93 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#95 Demonstrating Moore's law

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 07:05:48 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
other trivia ... there had previously been standards meetings for supporting documents held at one of the mortgage industry lobbying groups (across the park from IMF and Worldbank in DC) ... which may have been part of the path to MERS.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#105 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#0 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#1 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

while there hasn't been criminal referrels, criminal posecution, and people going to jail ... there has been press about settlements involving tens of billions in "fines". In many cases, the fines are structured such that they are suppose to be spent aiding the victims of mortgage fraud and foreclosure fraud.

In crony capitalism, this can mean using the money (aka "fines") to hire a firm of your buddies to aid/compensate the victims ... however like some non-profit charities, possibly 90% or more of the actual funds can be skimmed w/o actually getting to the victims. The "fines" have also been used by the hired firms to lobby legislatures to reduce the aid ... recent example from yesterday
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/09/10/15463/homeowners-steamrolled-florida-c

recent posts mentioning foreclosures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#57 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#70 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#46 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#47 Stolen F-35 Secrets Now Showing Up in China's Stealth Fighter
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#64 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#78 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#59 GAO and Wall Street Journal Whitewash Huge Criminal Bank Frauds
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#70 Obama Administration Launches Plan To Make An "Internet ID" A Reality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#0 Tim Geithner Redux - Here's the what American Bankers Association has to say on the subject
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#54 Has the last fighter pilot been born?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#111 Maine Supreme Court Hands Major Defeat to MERS Mortgage Registry
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#14 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 07:39:10 -0700
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
That seems to be the way to a fortune in this company. Create a company that makes products with integrity and after building up good will sell out to a large firm which will cheapen the product and depend on the accumulated good will to sell the product. Eventually the good will evaporates, but by then the executives have gotten their bonuses and perhaps moved on to another company. So they get rich too.

MBA "optimized", professional CEOs and private-equity managers looking for opportunities to loot/skim value ... and then move on ... sort of leaving (sherman's) scorched earth in their wake. Another scenario is "stock buybacks" ... sort of a variation on pump&dump ... but over longer period ... the "stock buybacks" are a form of pumping w/o adding any value ... eventually tbere is day of reckoning ... but the responsible executives figured they will have had their bonuses and moved on.

posts in thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#105 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#0 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#1 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#3 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

recent posts mentioning "stock buybacks"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#48 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#14 IBM to invest 1.2B into Cloud Data Centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#16 IBM to invest 1.2B into Cloud Data Centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#25 IBM Asian Revenues Crash, Adjusted Earnings Beat On Tax Rate Fudge; Debt Rises 20% To Fund Stock Buybacks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#34 IBM sells x86 server business to Lenovo (was Levono)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#48 IBM Dumps Its Server Business On Lenovo For $2.3B
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#79 Shocking news: Execs do what they're paid to do
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#93 Maximizing shareholder value: The Goal that changed corporate America
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#101 Defense Department Needs to Act Like IBM to Save Itself
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#104 Defense Department Needs to Act Like IBM to Save Itself
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#24 IBM sells Intel server business, company is doomed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#54 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#55 Maximizing shareholder value: The goal that changed corporate America
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#31 Apple's long IRS-Irish history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#91 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#75 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#77 Why IBM Is Tumbling: BRIC Sales Plunge, Total Revenue Lowest Since 2009
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#1 Why IBM Is Tumbling: BRIC Sales Plunge, Total Revenue Lowest Since 2009
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#33 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#43 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#48 IBM hopes new chip can turn the tables on Intel
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#54 IBM Sales Fall Again, Pressuring Rometty's Profit Goal
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#57 Fed's stress tests were a confidence-rattling comedy of errors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#80 IBM Sales Fall Again, Pressuring Rometty's Profit Goal
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#84 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#111 The Decline and Fall of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#0 The Decline and Fall of IBM

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Demonstrating Moore's law

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From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler)
Subject: Re: Demonstrating Moore's law
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 11 Sep 2014 08:55:05 -0700
latest update on tick-tock for moore's law

PowerPoint Presentation - RH_Event_May_2014_-_Intel.pdf
http://www.emergent360.com/images/uploads/brands/RH_Event_May_2014_-_Intel.pdf

following mentions V3 is "tock" on 22nm tech and some comparison with V4 ... a "tick" on 14nm technology ... intel currently spending $5B on 14nm fab.

Intel Haswell-EP Xeon E5 V3 Processor Pictured - Only Compatible With LGA2011-3 Socket
http://wccftech.com/intel-haswell-ep-xeon-e5-v3-processor-pictured-compatible-lga20113-socket/

... tick -- shrinking chip to new technology; tock -- redesign chip for new technology ... tick-tock part of keeping up with moore's law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Tick-Tock

Intel Xeon E5-2600 V3
http://www.tomsitpro.com/articles/intel-xeon-e5-2600-v3-cpu-grantley-deep-dive,1-2167.html
IDF: Intel unveils its Haswell Xeon E5-2600 V3 server processor
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2363801/idf-intel-unveils-its-haswell-xeon-e5-2600-v3-server-processor
Intel Xeon E5-2600 v3 Processor Overview: Haswell-EP Up to 18 Cores
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Intel-Xeon-E5-2600-v3-Processor-Overview-Haswell-EP-18-Cores
Intel Xeon E5-2600 v3: Haswell-E Hits The Server Space
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-xeon-e5-2600-v3-haswell-ep,3932.html
Latest Intel Xeon Processors Accelerate Data Center Transformation for the Digital Services Era
http://newsroom.intel.com/community/intel_newsroom/blog/2014/09/08/latest-intel-xeon-processors-accelerate-data-center-transformation-for-the-digital-services-era
Intel Xeon E5-2600v3 Haswell -- Advanced Clustering Technologies
http://www.advancedclustering.com/technologies/intel-xeon-haswell/
Intel Ups Performance Ante With 'Haswell' Xeon E5 Chips
http://www.enterprisetech.com/2014/09/08/intel-ups-performance-ante-haswell-xeon-chips/
Intel launches Xeon E5-2600 v3 with up to 18 cores to power data centre workloads
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2363991/intel-launches-xeon-e5-2600-v3-with-up-to-18-cores-to-power-data-centre-workloads
Intel Xeon E5 Version 3: Up to 18 Haswell EP Cores
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8423/intel-xeon-e5-version-3-up-to-18-haswell-ep-cores

old ibm-main posts about e5-2600(v1 ... 32nm technology) ... compared to z196&ec12
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#20 X86 server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#28 X86 server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#30 X86 server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#34 X86 server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#42 I.B.M. Mainframe Evolves to Serve the Digital World
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#51 Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#56 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#81 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#87 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#88 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#90 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#100 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#3 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#4 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#5 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#13 Intel Confirms Decline of Server Giants HP, Dell, and IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#28 I.B.M. Mainframe Evolves to Serve the Digital World
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#43 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#25 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#5 mainframe "selling" points
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#6 mainframe "selling" points
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#7 mainframe "selling" points
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#8 mainframe "selling" points
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#10 FW: mainframe "selling" points -- Start up Costs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#5 SAS Deserting the MF?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#7 SAS Deserting the MF?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#79 Why does IBM keep saying things like this:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#50 Mainframe On Cloud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#51 Mainframe On Cloud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#53 Mainframe On Cloud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#54 Mainframe On Cloud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#94 SHARE Blog: News Flash: The Mainframe (Still) Isn't Dead

past posts in this thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#2 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#4 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#5 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#6 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#7 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#8 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#9 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#10 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#11 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#12 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#13 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#15 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#16 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#17 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#20 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#46 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#85 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#86 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#87 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#89 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#90 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#91 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#93 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#95 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#96 Demonstrating Moore's law

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech  Was Like In 1984
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 07:00:35 -0700
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> writes:
Ha. Around here, many rural and semi-rural lines run through dense stands of trees -- conifers, maples, tall poplars and others -- that haven't been trimmed as you describe for over 20 years. Every little "breeze of wind" drops branches or whole trees on power lines. Moreso, of course, if the breeze of wind includes wet snow.

during enron period ... cal. public utility was buying excess power at cheap rates on spot market ... in place of building new power plants ... until market changed and there wasn't excess power (nobody building new plants) and the spot market inverted and rates went sky high.

there were also a number of fires caused by electrical sparks and destroyed bldgs. investigation was that the incremental fees allowed the public utilities for tree & brush clearing was being used to pay executive bonuses instead. some hands were slapped ... but it wasn't clear that it was in any way sufficient to change the culture.

posts mentioning enron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#enron

old reference in thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#50 fraying infrastructure

and this reference asking if privitized infrastructures, if executives would be held liable for loss, injuries, and/or deaths
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#61 What Makes a bridge Bizarre?

part of change in US executive culture ... extreme focus only on short-term self-interest ... and extracting, looting, skimming everything possible

recent refs to fraying infrastrucutre, looting and skimming diverting funds
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#44 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#46 What Gates Didn't Get Done
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#48 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#49 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#54 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#55 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#56 Washington Post on Target store data thefts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#77 In a Cyber Breach, Who Pays, Banks or Retailers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#81 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#6 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#69 Why is the US a decade behind Europe on 'chip and pin' cards?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#1 If We Don't Keep The F-22 Raptor Viable, The F-35 Fleet Will Be Irrelevant'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#17 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#32 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#41 UK government plans switch from Microsoft Office to open source
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#47 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#49 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#100 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#107 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#108 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#3 Let's Face It--It's the Cyber Era and We're Cyber Dumb
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#105 After Target, Neiman Marcus breaches, does PCI compliance mean anything?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#107 Bank of America to pay $9.3 billion to settle mortgage bond claims
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#6 Credit Card Breach at California DMV Provides Yet Another Warning of Cyber Insecurities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#72 Three Expensive Milliseconds
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#75 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#78 How the Internet wasn't Commercial Dataprocessing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#1 Why IBM Is Tumbling: BRIC Sales Plunge, Total Revenue Lowest Since 2009
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#18 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#42 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#74 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#91 Open Books Stop Self-Dealing and Corruption
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#94 Why Financialization Has Run Amok
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#28 weird trivia
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#37 Married Couples and the Financial Mess
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#22 The SDS 92, its place in history?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#105 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#1 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#3 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#4 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler)
Subject: Re: Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 12 Sep 2014 07:39:27 -0700
john.archie.mckown@GMAIL.COM (John McKown) writes:
This is not about the z, per se, but is interesting. I don't think that any of the IBM systems have this type of "filesystem". Hum, perhaps the i?

original CMS filesystem from mid-60s ... was somewhat brought over from CTSS ... would simulate fixed-block on CKD dasd (somewhat inverse of the current situation where there hasn't been any CKD DASD manufactured for decades and simulated on industry standard fixed-block). The default was to not replace/update existing record ... but write to newly allocated location ... then periodically update alloction map, file directory (aka VTOC) ... also to new location and then rewrite the MFD record (in-place, single write that would flip between the old set of records and the new set of records).

however, ibm CKD dasd had a peculiar power failure mode ... that might occur in the middle of a write operation ... there would be sufficient power to complete a write in progress ... but not sufficient power to continue transmitting the data from processor memory over the channel ... so the controller completed the write operation with all zeros (and no indication of a read/write failure). As a result, in the mid-70s, the CMS extended file system had fix ... which change to a pair of MFD records and would alternatively write to the pair of records. On initial startup ... it would check both records to see if both records had been written correctly (no zeros propagated at the end of the record) and choose the most recent valid record. As far as i know, none of the other mainframe systems made any software provisions to handle this particular failure mode of ibm ckd dasd.

UNIX filesystem has been notorious for writing records in arbitrary order ... especially the filesystem control information (metadata) and after a shutdown/failure w/o "clean" shutdown (all records cleanly written to disk) ... a start up after non-clean shutdown would have to reread all records looking for inconsistencies ... which might take large tens of minutes.

Circa 1990, aixv3 for rs/6000 enhanced the unix filesystem with logging changes to the file directory information (metadata) ... a side-effect was aix could almost immediately recover/startup ... by rerunning logged information (it doesn't do anything for consistency of file data ... but does fix the unix filesystem integrity problem). AIX JFS filesystem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFS_%28file_system%29
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6268

the original implementation relied on special hardware in 801/risc where the unix filesystem control information (metadata) was placed in memory area that was specially identified to catch all changes. then all changes to filesystem was captured and journaled ... w/o having to change all the unix code to explicitly call the journaling/logging facility. The original claim was that the hardware implementation was also faster than putting in explicit logging/journaling calls. However, when the ibm paloalto group was porting JFS to generic hardware (w/o the 801/risc features), they had to put in explicit logging/journaling calls for changes. When they back ported that implementation to rs/6000, it turns out the explicit calls ran faster than the original implementation.

as an aside, we relied on JFS for faster restart when we did ibm's ha/cmp (high availability, cluster multiprocessor) ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

past posts mentioning 801/risc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

recent references to Jim Gray credited with formalizing transaction semantics and ACID properties
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#2 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#14 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#15 Is it time for a revolution to replace TLS?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#38 Fifty Years of BASIC, the Programming Language That Made Computers Personal
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#2 Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems

From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler)
Subject: Re: Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 12 Sep 2014 09:17:35 -0700
tony@HARMINC.NET (Tony Harminc) writes:
That's a not unreasonable implementation of an architected behaviour on the B&T/OEMI channel to CU interface, independent of power failure. If an I/O reset is received by the control unit while a write is in progress, it completes the write with zeros. What would be a more reasonable behaviour on a disk with little or no buffering? So in theory it's possible to corrupt data on disk just by hitting System Reset (or Load) during a disk write. If you look at the probability it's pretty unlikely, but I worked at one place that had a strict rule about hitting stop and waiting a few seconds before doing the reset or load.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#7 [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems

part of the issue was that incomplete write ... with propagated zeros ... would also (then) rewrite the error correcting codes for the record (with propagated zeros) ... so there wouldn't even be an error indication that the write was performed incorrectly (installation wouldn't even know to perform restore because of write error).

later fba disks ... especially in conjunction with raid ... had requirement that single block write would complete correctly once started. before raid and with fba-512 blocks and 4k-byte logical blocks ... the hardware guarantee only applied to the physical 512byte block ... which could result in an inconsistent 4k-byte logical record (8 physical 512byte blocks) with no error condition. As a result, there had to be special software provisions by filesystems with 4k-byte logical records mapped to fba-512.

this particular issue has been eliminated with the recent move from fba-512 to fba-4096 ... so 4k-byte logical block filesystems now match the physical block size. part of the move from fba-512 to fba-4096 is that rather than eight error correcting codes per 4k-bytes ... there is only single error correcting code ... increasing the effective data space on disk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format

past posts mentioning fba, ckd, multi-track search, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dasd

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler)
Subject: Re: Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 13 Sep 2014 11:26:03 -0700
jcewing@ACM.ORG (Joel C. Ewing) writes:
If the hardware knows it has incomplete information to write an entire block because of some abnormal hardware condition, then something should be done to guarantee that any later attempt to read that block will produce an error indication. If that is not the case, this would appear to be a violation of one of the major tenets of mainframe design: that any data errors resulting from hardware issues should be at least detectable, if not correctable. Writing a "valid" block with trailing zeros in such a case sounds a bad design decision.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#7 Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#8 Fwd: [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems

*and* generating a valid error correcting code for the propagated zeros

at one point i was asked to audit some of the early raid5 vendors ... and there were some cases where i had to give presentations on what "no-single-point-of-failure" means (having found single points of failure).

nearly decade earlier, i was involved in working with NSF on interconnecting NSF supercomputer centers (later evolves into the NSFNET backbone, precursor to the modern internet) ... some old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet

in part because had internal (HSDT) project with T1 (1.5mbit/sec) and faster links ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt

one of the people working on the effort had been graduate student of Reed at jpl/caltech and did a lot of the original work on reed-solomon (error correcting code). Also got to work with cyclotomics up in berkeley (on of the founders was berlekamp) ... cyclotomics did a lot of the reed-solomon stuff that shows up in the cdrom standard ... during this period, they were bought by kodak. a couple recent posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#75 non-IBM: SONY new tape storage - 185 Terabytes on a tape
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#68 No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984

reed-solomon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed%E2%80%93Solomon_error_correction

as previously mentioned ... one of the justifications for the industry moving from fba-512 to fba-4096 was reducing space taken up by error correcting code:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format

past posts mentioning fba, ckd, multi-track search, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dasd

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 08:07:53 -0700
Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> writes:
We lost an entire 10 large multi story building for about 2 hours when a contractor back hoed a main inter-substation circuit. Some face time with power company afterwards about contractual no SPOFs ensued. The back hoe operator was uninjured, but the bucket on the hoe definitely showed signs of "rapid wear"

The lines were not where they were supposed to be...


there is infamous case of new england internet going offline because of backhoe someplace in Connecticut. originally, something like 9 different physically diverse routed 56kbits were carefully selected (for no-single-point-of-failure). over the years (with nobody paying attention) ... the different links with physically diverese routing were consolidated ... until all links were going over the same physical fiber optic cable.

normally, high availability datacenters will have physical diverse lines coming into the building for different physical directions (going to different telco offices) ... as well as different power from different substations entering the building from different directions.

there is case of nyse/siac having selected bldg. in nyc for datacenter that had service from four different telco offices from four different directions, power from four different substations from different directions and two different water mains on opposite sides of the bldg. they shutdown one day when transformer exploded in the basement and the bldg. had to be evactuated (pbc contamination).

recent post/thread (in ibm-main mailing list) mentioning no-single-point-of-failure
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#9 [sqlite] presentation about ordering and atomicity of filesystems

past posts mentioning telco provisioning and/or diverse routing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#21 Reliable Connections Are Not
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#39 Interesting bit of a quote
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay4.htm#miscdns misc. other DNS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#34 Mainframes & Unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#158 Uptime (was Re: Q: S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#164 Uptime (was Re: Q: S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#85 Mainframe power failure (somehow morphed from Re: write rings)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#51 The Weakest Link.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#28 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#32 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#44 Calculating a Gigalapse
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#24 Computers in Science Fiction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#5 Dumb Question - Hardend Site ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#48 InfiniBand Group Sharply, Evenly Divided
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#53 Microsoft worm affecting Automatic Teller Machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#54 Microsoft worm affecting Automatic Teller Machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#52 diffence between itanium and alpha
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#9 Whatever happened to 'University Computer Centers'?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#16 Anyone Still Using Cards?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#53 360 longevity, was RISCs too close to hardware?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#52 [Lit.] Buffer overruns
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#30 Data communications over telegraph circuits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#24 is a computer like an airport?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#18 IBM 610 workstation computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006i.html#29 Which entry of the routing table was selected?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#28 Storage Philosophy Question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#29 Storage Philosophy Question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#41 Windows: Monitor or CUSP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#34 what does xp do when system is copying
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#63 To what extent do IP networks meet the stringent requirements of High Availability (HA) where the target performance is 99.999%? What performance is obtained in practice
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#67 Is SUN going to become x86'ed ??
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#0 Is SUN going to become x86'ed ??
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#1 Is SUN going to become x86'ed ??
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#29 Check out Computer glitch to cause flight delays across U.S. - MarketWatch
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#9 The IETF is probably the single element in the global equation of technology competition than has resulted in the INTERNET
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#29 Dennis Ritchie's Wonderful Web Pages
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012d.html#77 Pre-Friday fun: Halon dumps and POK Resets
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#38 Did this 1985 film coin the phrase 'information superhighway' and predict Siri?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#19 X86 server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#61 The cloud is killing traditional hardware and software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#20 How about the old mainframe error messages that actually give you a clue about what's broken

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 08:19:35 -0700
hancock4 writes:
I noticed in photos of brochures from the early 1950s (fascinating reading) that there is often an oscilloscope shown in the picture. I'm not sure if this was used to display output information or to be handy for maintenance adnjustments.

I think some of the IBM SAFE manuals included images of some oscilloscope screens to aid in checking the circuits.


ibm field engineering had bootstrap process for diagnosing/repair problems that started with being able to "scope" components ... and working on up larger & larger sub-assemblies.

starting with 3081, TCMs were introduced where it was no longer possible to do bootstrap diagnostic (& repair/replacement). As a result, field engineering required the introduction of "service processor" ... which had diagnositc leads into all the TCMs ... and TCM problems could be diagnosed with service processor. Part of the issue was each TCM was a really expensive units ... and didn't want to go around replacing TCMs until things started working again.

The service processor was (scopeable) uc (similar to what was used in 8100s and 3705) and required lots of roll-your-own operating system developed from scratch.

For the 3090, it was decided to use a (scopable) 4331 running a modified version of vm370 release 6, as the service processor. Eventually this was replaced with a pair of (non-scoped) 4361s ... running the same software.

past posts mentioning 3090 service processor:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#41 IBM 4361 CPU technology
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#61 Living legends
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#62 Living legends
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#108 IBM 9020 computers used by FAA (was Re: EPO stories (was: HELP IT'S HOT!!!!!))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#50 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#51 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#76 Is a VAX a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#26 Superduper computers--why RISC not 390?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#83 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#2 Alpha: an invitation to communicate
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#13 Parity - why even or odd (was Re: Load Locked (was: IA64 running out of steam))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#61 Google Archive
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#45 VM and/or Linux under OS/390?????
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#32 First DESKTOP Unix Box?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#44 PDP-10 Archive migration plan
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#42 Beginning of the end for SNA?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#5 What goes into a 3090?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#19 What goes into a 3090?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#79 Fw: HONE was .. Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#28 ibm history note from vmshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#7 What is microcode?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#10 What is microcode?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#58 IBM S/370-168, 195, and 3033
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#59 IBM S/370-168, 195, and 3033
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#40 Linux paging
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#53 MVS History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#65 801 (was Re: Reviving Multics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#12 Why are there few viruses for UNIX/Linux systems?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#62 IBM Manuals from the 1940's and 1950's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#17 which CPU for educational purposes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#10 Dyadic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#11 Dyadic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#45 A quote from Crypto-Gram
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#37 Wars against bad things
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004n.html#10 RISCs too close to hardware?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#27 IBM 3705 and UC.5
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#36 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#37 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#41 IBM 3614 and 3624 ATM's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005b.html#51 History of performance counters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#13 Today's mainframe--anything to new?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#29 Documentation for the New Instructions for the z9 Processor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#39 FULIST
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#0 EREP , sense ... manual
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#2 Mount a tape
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#18 Change in computers as a hobbiest
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#6 Not Your Dad's Mainframe: Little Iron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#8 Not Your Dad's Mainframe: Little Iron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#27 A Day For Surprises (Astounding Itanium Tricks)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#24 IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#18 IBM sues maker of Intel-based Mainframe clones
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#24 How to write a full-screen Rexx debugger?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#39 Just another example of mainframe costs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#1 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#15 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#30 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#16 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#1 Has anyone ever used self-modifying microcode? Would it even be useful?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#22 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#23 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#39 FBA rant
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#43 FBA rant
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#20 Does anyone know of a documented case of VM being penetrated by hackers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#36 Writing 23FDs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007p.html#37 Writing 23FDs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#9 Open z architecture and Linux questions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#46 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#54 Throwaway cores
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#60 z10 presentation on 26 Feb
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#13 How fast is XCF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#80 Microsoft versus Digital Equipment Corporation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#10 Different Implementations of VLIW
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#22 Evil weather
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#77 Z11 - Water cooling?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#50 Mainframe Hall of Fame: 17 New Members Added
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#49 Old-school programming techniques you probably don't miss
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#66 Mainframe articles
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#44 Z/VM support for FBA devices was Re: z/OS support of HMC's 3270 emulation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#47 Z/VM support for FBA devices was Re: z/OS support of HMC's 3270 emulation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#18 "Portable" data centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#24 How to reduce the overall monthly cost on a System z environment?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#49 "Portable" data centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#51 "Portable" data centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#43 What was old is new again (water chilled)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#32 Need tool to zap core
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#34 Need tool to zap core
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#38 Need tool to zap core
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#44 Need tool to zap core
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#76 LPARs: More or Less?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010g.html#32 Intel Nehalem-EX Aims for the Mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#42 IBM 029 service manual
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#43 IBM 3883 Manuals
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#55 z millicode: where does it reside?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#71 Fujitsu starts shipping 800 rack 80,000 chip 'K' supercomputer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#33 IBM S/360 Green Card high quality scan
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#47 IBM S/360 Green Card high quality scan here
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#18 Melinda Varian's history page move
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#71 IBM and the Computer Revolution
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#62 3090 ... announce 12Feb85
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#20 New job for mainframes: Cloud platform
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#31 TCP/IP Available on MVS When?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#32 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#42 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not happened
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#68 IBM Mainframe (1980's) on You tube
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#13 Last card reader?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#21 Supervisory Processors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#58 An approach to Dump formatting of Control Blocks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#60 Has anyone successfully migrated off mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#58 Why can't the track format be changed?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#23 M68k add to memory is not a mistake any more
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012d.html#2 NASA unplugs their last mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#38 A bit of IBM System 360 nostalgia
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#63 Typeface (font) and city identity
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012f.html#53 Image if someone built a general-menu-system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012f.html#76 Time to competency for new software language?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#23 VM Workshop 2012
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#83 How smart do you need to be to be really good with Assembler?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#82 zEC12, and previous generations, "why?" type question - GPU computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#99 PDP-10 system calls, was 1132 printer history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#0 PDP-10 system calls, was 1132 printer history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#8 a clock in it, was Re: Interesting News Article
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#64 Should you support or abandon the 3270 as a User Interface?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#68 Should you support or abandon the 3270 as a User Interface?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#37 Regarding Time Sharing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#25 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#33 What Makes code storage management so cool?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#27 Getting at the original command name/line
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#32 Getting at the original command name/line
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#71 OT: NYT article--the rich get richer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#15 OT: NYT article--the rich get richer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#91 rebuild 1403 printer chain
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#30 GUI vs 3270 Re: MVS Quick Reference, was: LookAT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#31 Hardware failures (was Re: Scary Sysprogs ...)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#81 Pensions, was Re: Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#14 23Jun1969 Unbundling Announcement
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#20 IBM 8150?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#70 How the Internet wasn't Commercial Dataprocessing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#13 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#21 Complete 360 and 370 systems found

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 08:31:01 -0700
Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> writes:
The poster blames his spelling checker a story that he will stick to as long as it holds.

Is there a web site reference that cites the site of the hole in the ground that was within the sight of the target for the Norden bomb sight.

In practice they were better than nothing but until the bombs had guidance on the way down they weren't effective unless aiming errors overlapped blast zones.

Some of the Vietnam war smart bombs kept the computer in the plane that told the bomb where to go with wire, or other communications.

In a afc tradition of bouncing around topics. For wire guided bombs or missiles with separation speeds approaching 400Kts, unrolling the wire without breaking is an interesting problem.


there was study done of effectiveness of heavy multi-engine strategic bombing in ww2 (something like 1/3rd of total ww2 military spending went to strategic heavy bombing) ... and found it was almost totally ineffective (almost zero roi for 1/3rd of all ww2 military spending). along the way they found air force was enormously exaggerating effectiveness of heavy bombing.

past posts referencing ww2 strategic bombing study
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#10 America's Defense Meltdown
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#62 Early use of the word "computer"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#18 Air Superiority: Advantage over enemy skies for 60 years
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#67 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#54 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#73 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#90 Friden Flexowriter equipment series
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#91 Friden Flexowriter equipment series
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#92 Off topic screeds (was Re: Friden Flexowriter equipment series)

most effective was single-engine CAS (close-air-support) ... precursors to modern day A10s.

it may have been a good thing that 3/4ths of german ww2 war effect went against the soviet union ... leaving all the rest of the allies to only deal with 1/4th ... past refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#10 The Knowledge Economy Two Classes of Workers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#60 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#77 What Makes collecting sales taxes Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#70 OT: "Highway Patrol" back on TV
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#38 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#70 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#34 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Question concerning running z/OS LPARs under z/VM

From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler)
Subject: Re: Question concerning running z/OS LPARs under z/VM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 16 Sep 2014 08:47:07 -0700
Allan.Staller@KBMG.COM (Staller, Allan) writes:
z/VM solved the nested paging issue the late 80's. Usually by making the guest image so large that paging never became an issue. There was also the "preferred guest" feature.

The problem was worse than you can ever imagine. I pontificated a lot about this in the mid-70s

I had done a lot of paging algorithm stuff as undergraduate in the 60s ... and got into tiff with the POK crowd when they started adding paging to MVT (something they thought was benefit ... was actually picking shared, high-use linkpac pages for replacement before lower-use private data pages ... which didn't get fixed until well into the MVS release cycle).

The other problem was running under vm370 ... most page replacement algorithms assume some flavor of LRU ... least recently used ... the page that has been least recently used in the past is assumed to have the lowest probability of use in the future. When MVS is running some flavor of LRU ... it is looking for the page with very low usage to use its real storage location.

when running under vm370, with both vm370 and mvs running some flavor of LRU ... the apparent page use behavior of MVS running in vm370 virtual machine ... is the least recently used page (from vm370 point-of-view) is the most likely to be used next (not least likely) ... because MVS is out looking for the leased recently used for its next likely to be used aka a LRU algorithm running under a LRU algorithm starts to look a lot like an MRU (the least recently used page is the most likely to be used).

This also comes up with large DBMS record caches which also tend to be managed with least-recently-used replacement strategies ... and why large DBMS record caches also tend to have to be PIN'ed (because the operating system will have a tendency to replace the least recently used page ... which has high probability of being needed by the DBMS).

misc. past posts about page replacement algorithms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#clock

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Cyberspace KISS

From: lynn@garlic.com
Subject: Cyberspace KISS
Date: 16 Sept, 2014
Blog: Facebook
In computer security, complexity is frequently associated with obfuscation, misdirection and snakeoil (and quote is exploits are frequently proportional to complexity) . in the 90s, i would take a lot of hits in standards meeting for eliminating unnecessary stuff ... typical vendors purely looking at inflating profit. Complexity also frequently implied that the people hadn't really analyzed/understood the problem .... other times i would make reference to people with answers in search of a problem.

I have several long winded posts about before cyberspace, banks charged heavy fee on retail electronic financial transactions ... and the introduction of electronic commerce mapped the fees to the highest fraud rates. Large institutions may have 40-60% of their bottom line based on these fees .... and eliminating all such fraud could cut justification for those fees by 90%. The other issue is that the value of account number to crooks is the account balance or credit limit (hundreds to tens of thousands). The value of the account number to the merchant is the profit on the transaction (possibly only a few dollars). As a result crooks/attackers can afford to outspend the defenders by 100:1 or more. Recognizing this, in the 90s we did a financial transaction standard that slightly tweaked the paradigm and eliminated the value of the account number to crooks. It did nothing to prevent breaches, but eliminated the financial fraud motivation for the majority of the breaches in the world ... but could have also cut bottom line of many large financial institutions by 1/3rd to 1/2.

in the early 90s, we were brought in as consultants to small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on their server, they had also invented this technology called "SSL" they wanted to use ... the result is now frequently callled "electronic commerce". Somewhat in the mid-90s we were asked to participate in the x9a10 financial standard working group that had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for *ALL* retail payments (which resulted in the financial transaction standard mentioned above). Now the major use of "SSL" in the world today is to hide account numbers in electronic commerce transactions ... the new standard eliminated the need to hide the account number (no longer could be used by crooks to perform fraudulent financial transacionts) ... and so would have also eliminated the major use of "SSL" in the world today.

past references to x9a10 financial standards working group
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
discussion of account number vulnerabilities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#harvest
more discussion
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#secrets

They other issue in the existing paradigm is that account number is dual-use ... it is required in dozens of business processes at millions of locations around the world ... and is effectively (something you know) authentication ... we've periodically commented even if the planet was buried under miles of information hiding crypto ... it wouldn't stop leaks.

references to 3factor authentication model
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#3factor
--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

MVS

From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler)
Subject: Re: MVS
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 17 Sep 2014 16:22:52 -0700
edjaffe@PHOENIXSOFTWARE.COM (Ed Jaffe) writes:
IIRC, "OpenEdition MVS" (aka OMVS) was introduced with MVS/ESA 4.3 ca. 1993.

I've periodic told the tale in late 80s, about senior disk engineer getting talk scheduled at the annual, world-wide, internal communication group conference ... supposedly on topic of 3174 performance, but open the talk with statement that the communication group was going to be responsible for demise. of the disk division. The communication group had stranglehold on the datacenter with corporate strategic responsibility for everything that cross the datacenter walls ... and were violently fighting off distributed computing and client/server trying to preserve their dumb terminal paradigm. The disk division was starting to see data fleeing the datacenter to more distributed computing friendly platforms with drop in disk sales. The disk division had come up with a number of solutions to correct the situation ... but they were constantly being vetoed by the communication group. some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#terminal

his boss (disk division executive in charge of software) then started trying a number of ways to bypass the communication group ... he started investing in startups that would produce distributed computing products for the mainframe ... and also was responsible for project that got unix subsystem operation shipped in mvs. we had worked with him several times in the past ... and he would periodically ask us in to give a hand on some of the efforts.

one of the startups he invested in was spinnoff from NCAR that in mid-80s, had done a distributed filesystem for supercomputers using hyperchannel, mainframe disks and mainframe acting as sort of NAS/SAN controller ... and we were asked to monitor their progress and lend a hand where we could. some semi-related past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt

i had become something of corporate hyperchannel resource ... having done channel-extender support using hyperchannel in 1980 for STL and the IMS group.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:22:18 -0700
hancock4 writes:
Although by the time of S/360 little _hardware_ support was needed (as opposed to the old days and for routine maintenance), IBM still provided plenty of software support, with libraries of packaged programs for various industries. Indeed, they had done with even in the 1930s with tab machines.

there were number of things done for cp67 to accomodate online 7x24 operation ... opening up the system for offshift online use had problem that machines were on rent ... monthly charge was based on number of hrs recorded by the "system meter" that ran whenever processor &/or any channel was active ... and use had to justify the rent (and initially there was very little offshift use, difficult to justify the system meter hours). one gimick was to have the system prepared to take incoming characters ... but otherwise appear as if channel was idle (if nothing actually going on) ... which allowed the system meter to come to stop.

another ... ondemand, 7x24 was routine maintenance. at least one of the virtual machine based online commercial service bureaus enhanced the system for cluster (mainframe: loosely-coupled) operation ... which would support non-disruptive workload migration from 360/67 system that needed to be taken down for routine maintenance (and then non-disruptive added back to the cluster) some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare

the "system meter" had feature that everything had to be idle (processors and all channels) for 400ms before it would coast to a stop. I've periodically mentioned that POK's favorite son operating system (MVS), well after machines were being sold rather than rented, still had event that went off every 400ms ... guaranteed that if the system was up, regardless of what else was going on ... the system meter would never stop.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:55:08 -0700
hancock4 writes:
I don't know what level of PC would be competitive to a 360-40, but IMHO the S/360 channel architecture allowed greater throughput than that of a PC. I believe that if the peripherals of the S/360 were hung onto a PC--1,000 line per minute card reader, 1,000 line per minute card reader or floppy drive equivalent, 240 meg disk (eight 29 meg 2314's), two tape drives--the PC would be slow driving all of the peripherals while simultaneously running an application program.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

I've pontificated quite a bit about ibm channels. it appeared to offload a lot of channel program processing to the channel ... but on lower-end models, they were integrated channels, so the native processor engine was shared between emulating 360/370 and the channel functions. the big thing was that it obfuscated the enormous interrupt & task-switching processing overhead of os/360 (effectively it was done at the much more efficient microcode level) ... eliminating per byte interrupt processing offloading to the channel microcode.

low-end, inexpensive PC had some per-byte interrupt processing exposed up in the software ... but as electronics became cheaper ... much of that overhead was offloaded into cheap electronics.

the other issue was the channel architecture was half-duplex, per-byte, end-to-end handshake between the channel processor, out to the controller (and frequently out to the device). this became an increasingly throughput issue as i/o configurations got bigger and faster ... and end-to-end latency became significant throughput issue.

supposedly channels were viewed as concurrent shared resource per i/o device ... but this was at high-level ... the byte-to-byte level had the channel waiting for the end-to-end per-byte half-duplex, handshake. This was slightly relaxed with data-streaming introduced for the 3mbyte/sec channels with 3880 controllers and 3380 disks (multiple bytes could be transferred per end-to-end handshake).

However, the 3880 exhacerbated the half-duplex problem ... it had enormously high processing overhead per control operation ... during which the (half-duplex) channel had to wait doing nothing (and could not be used by any other resource). the 3090 product realized that this enormously cut the effective channel throughput (compared to what they were expecting with the introduction of data-streaming and 3mbyte channels). They had to significantly increase the number of channels (to offset the controller busy idle time) in order to get desired aggregate I/O throughput.

A lot of the folklore about enormous mainframe channel throughput comes from the 3090 timeframe attempting to obfuscate the real reazon for the enormous increase in the number of channels for 3090.

I've also mentioned in 1980, getting con'ed into doing channel extender support for the IBM STL (now silicon valley) lab and the IMS (dbms) group that was moving 300 people to offsite bldg ... and found remote (3270) online support (to dataprocessing back in the stl datacenter) totally unacceptable. Baiscally a channel emulator was put at the remote end and the channel programming and half-duplex hand-shaking only went between the remote channel emulator and the remote 3270 controller. The protocol for the link between the datacenter and the remote location was dual-simplex, asynchronous, concurrent large block transfers ... started by transferring the channel program from the mainframe to the remote channel emulator. With multiple channel emulators at the remote end ... and local 3270 controller offloaded to the remote channel emulators, and high-performance channel extender box that attached directly to real channels ... the total i/o throughput went up significantly and the real channel overhead was reduced ... such that typical system throughput was able to increase by 10-15%. Prior to the change, the datacenter channels had been configured with a mix of 3270 controllers and disk controllers across all the channels. The direct attachment of 3270 controllers were replaced with a high-performnace channel extender box that drastically reduced real channel busy (for the same operation) ... allowing for increase in disk throughput. some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#channel.extender

early 1981, the channel extender vendor attempted to get ibm to allow release of my channel extender support to be released ... but it was blocked by group in (mainframe) POK that were playing aroaund with some fiber stuff ... and they were worried that if it was in the market, it would inhibit bering able to get their stuff released (it wasn't until 1990, they they were able to get it out in the market as ESCON with the es/9000 ... when it was already obsolete).

In 1988, I had been asked to help LLNL get some of the asynchronous I/O stuff they had, released as standard ... which finally shows up as fibre channel standard. It does dual-simplex asynchronous operation supporting downloading of i/o programs to the remote end ... reducing lots of i/o program protocol chatter and latency.

Later IBM channel engineers define a mainframe channel program protocol layer running over fibre channel standard ... that drastically reduces the native fibre channel throughput (in large part because of latency of all the protocol back&forth handshaking) that was released as FICON. Recently IBM published a "peak i/o" benchmark for z196 that used 104 FICON to achieve throughput 2M IOPS ... at about the same time a native fibre channel was announced for e5-2600 blade claiming over 1M IOPS (two native fibre channel having higher throughput than 104 FICON layered on 104 fibre channel). past posts mentioning ficon
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:31:44 -0700
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

fibre channel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibre_Channel

we were planning and deploying fibre channel in customer shops with ha/cmp scaleup by mid-92 ... old reference to discussion in Ellison's conference room jan1992
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

some old email on cluster scaleup
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

other posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

but by the end of jan1992, the scaleup part was transferred, we were told we couldn't work on anything with more than four processors, and it was announced as ibm supercomputer (for scientific and technical *ONLY*)

the wiki article mentions SSA,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Storage_Architecture

(as mentioned in Ellison reference) we were working on precursor to SSA and was trying to converge it to fibre channel standard ... starting with fractional fibre channel bandwidth ... but the supercomputer thing interferes and we decide to leave.

some discussion of more recent mainframe leveraging lots of "PC" technologies (also some of the more recent PC technologies drew on the earlier fibre channel work):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#40 Has anyone successfully migrated off mainframes?
and
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#61 IBM to announce new MF's this year

other old posts mentioning the subject:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#78 Q: Is there any interest for vintage Byte Magazines from 1983
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#35 IBM's mini computers--lack thereof
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#46 IBM's mini computers--lack thereof
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#46 "25th Anniversary of the Personal Computer"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#61 Serial vs. Parallel
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#57 Mainframe Hall of Fame: 17 New Members Added
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#2 Blades versus z was Re: Turn Off Another Light - Univ. of Tennessee

other
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#channel.extender
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

High CPU Utilized

From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler)
Subject: Re: High CPU Utilized
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 19 Sep 2014 09:12:57 -0700
norman.hollander@DESERTWIZ.BIZ (Norman.Hollander) writes:
Absolutely agree! I've done various tech sessions, and customer presentations on this for years. As long as you know what happens when your system runs at 100%, it's a good thing. There are NO roll over minutes. What you didn't use a minute ago, is not available in the next. If important work is meeting its goal, why not get your money's worth?

slightly modulo the SAPs (system assist i/o processors). Published peak I/O numbers for z196 has all SAPs running at 100% being able to handle 2.2M SSCH/sec ... however recommendation is that the SAPs be kept to no more than 70% busy (or 1.5M SSCH/sec). so far published ref is that ec12 will have 30% increased peak i/o throughput compared to z196.

part of the issue may be some serialized throughput operations ... where latency becomes an issue ... where having immediate resources available (rather than waiting in queue) to reduce latency can become important.

past posts discussing FICON (and some SAPs)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:09:31 -0700
How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea
http://www.businessinsider.com/ellison-grew-rich-from-ibms-idea-2014-9

past posts mentioning original sql/relational
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr

other history here
http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/

some recent posts that mentions ellison:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#35 OODA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#72 11 Years to Catch Up with Seymour
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#96 11 Years to Catch Up with Seymour
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#52 [CM] Ten recollections about the early WWW and Internet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#7 Last Gasp for Hard Disk Drives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#11 Can the mainframe remain relevant in the cloud and mobile era?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#70 How the Internet wasn't Commercial Dataprocessing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#39 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#81 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#83 Slashdot this day in history: Microsoft Asks Slashdot To Remove Readers' Posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#40 Fifty Years of BASIC, the Programming Language That Made Computers Personal
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#16 Emulating z CPs was: Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#21 Is end of mainframe near?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#33 Can Ginni really lead the company to the next great product line?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#99 The SDS 92, its place in history?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#5 The SDS 92, its place in history?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#76 No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#96 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?

From: lynn@garlic.com
Subject: Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?
Date: 19 Sept, 2014
Blog: Mainframe Experts
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#101 Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#2 Flat (VSAM or other) files still in use?

How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea
http://www.businessinsider.com/ellison-grew-rich-from-ibms-idea-2014-9

past posts mentioning original sql/relational
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr

more history here
http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/

In the 70s, there was something of back&forth between the IMS group in STL and System/R group in SJR (SJR was on main plant site, STL was few miles down the road). IMS criticized RDBMS for doubling physical disk space and increasing I/O operations (involved with index). System/R criticized IMS for requiring lot more administrative and human management (record pointers were exposed as data, application could go directly ... instead of indirectly reference using index). Going into the 80s, disk price/mbyte dropped significantly ... mitigating the doubling of disk space for index ... and system memories increased significantly ... allowing much of index to be cached ... significantly reducing I/Os to access record. At the same time human resources became scarce and expensive for managing IMS (minimum resources ... human and otherwise ... for RDBMS was significantly less).

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:32:14 -0700
hancock4 writes:
But what about 360-DOS, as opposed to 360-OS? Did DOS have the big overhead, too?

For the model 40, I'm not sure if there was channel or controller electronics to do some of the work, or if it was all done by the CPU. (I always wondered what our "controller" did--it was a big box that controlled the printer, reader, and punch. It was normally never touched, except when we upgraded our printer chain from 48 char to 64 chars*, and the char set had to be loaded.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

i didn't compare directly to dos ... but my cp67 pathlength was significantly better than os/360 (and later svs/mvs), vs1, and dos/vs. I retrofitted some of the pathlength reductions to vm370 ... especially when i did the i/o reliability enhancements for the disk engineering lab
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk

part of it was drastic cleanup of the vm370 i/o supervisor and significantly cutting the pathlength to handle and interrupt and redrive the device with any pending i/o. one of the gimicks they tried to mask the enormous increase in controller overhead/latency with 3880 ... they attempted to mask some of the problem by presenting operation complete early (aka ending i/o interrupt) ... before the 3880 was fully done (expecting that the additional overhead could be hidden while the software was handling interrupt). This worked with simple thread operation where there wasn't actual queue of requests ... but software had to handle interrupt and application then generate next request. in heavily loaded system with multiple requests queued concurrently for different devices on the same controller ... I had gotten the redrive latency (interrupt to next start i/o) to very small value ... which caught the 3880 with its pants down ... and it had to return control unit busy ... and then generate anohter interrupt when it really was done (which resulted in also driving up the operating system overhead since not only the delay but overhead of processing two interrupts for every operation under heavy load).

however, it wasn't anywhere near the processing that the microcode could do supporting integrated channels ... switching between doing 360/370 instructions and doing channel programming instructions. dos/360 was less than os/360 ... but I had shorter pathlength than any ... and it wasn't nearly what microcode was.

cp67 i got avg. aggregate pathlength to handle page fault between 500-600 instructions; handle page fault interrupt, select existing page to be replaced, schedule read i/o for missing page, take page read interrupt and redispath the task. also included was prorated pathlength where in 60% of the cases, a page write for the selected page to be replaced had to be written out. a decade later, vm370 was several times that but still less than dos/vs, vs1, and mvs (which was around 10k instructions).

hypothetical less say dos/360 interrupt handling was only 100 instructions (which it wasn't) ... and is doing byte-at-a-time channel processing ... then on 100KIPS 360, it would be able to handle 1000 bytes/sec (with processor totally saturated doing i/o interrupt handling and nothing else).

some 360/40 which would have it at 100KIPS or less.
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP2040.html

generalized 360 processing has bunch of overhead with saving and restoring registers handling interrupts. specialized microcode hardware can have two separate modes with two sets of registers and just switch back and forth between the two modes (native processor doing 360/370 instructions emulation and integrated channel processing).

it wasn't until you get to 360/65 (& 360/67) were you get to separate hardware box doing channel processing (smaller models were integrated channels with native microcode engine doing double duty).

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:48:41 -0700
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

a little more digression ... in 1975 i was asked to work on 370 to do a lot of kernel microcode stuff ... different, but concurrent with the 138/148 ECPS work ... ECPS ref.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#21 370 ECPS VM microcode assist

where queues were put into the microcode interface ... and could handle dispatching in multiprocessor configuration (somewhat akin done later by intel i432) as well as both device and channel request queues .... so redrive of queued requests could occur almost immediately w/o needing latency involved in operating system interrupt processing.

for the disk engineering lab ... part of the exercise was to see how close I could come in operating system software latency to the microcode version.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk

with the death of FS ... past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

there was mad rush to get products back into the 370 pipeline ... kicking off 3033 and 370/xa (3081) in parallel ... both using warmed over FS technology
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm

it wasn't until decade later with 3090 that something really new appears.

part of 370/xa was to define SSCH (enhanced SIO) to offset the tremendous latench and pathlength overhead with i/o redrive in MVS (during which i/o resources are sitting idle ... and i/o throughput quickly becoming major bottleneck in system). At the disk engineering lab ... I wanted to show I could come very close to SSCH latency with plain vanilla 370 software programming. recent reference in ibm-main mailing list mentioning SSCH
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#19 High CPU Utilized

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 23:35:07 -0700
hancock4 writes:
My math is rusty, but is 625 nanosecs equal to 0.625 MIPS? (the -40's cycle time.)

Anyway, since you're saying the model 40 CPU did all the channel work, then could a PC (8088), with a suitable operating system, drive disks, floppies (for reader punch), and a printer at the equivalent speeds and throughput?

The five inch floppies seemed to process awfully slow. But that's hard to compare to card speeds, since a 360k floppy disk is holding 4,500 80-character card images. Reading all that in would take 4.5 minutes, and I think a PC could read in an entire floppy in that time (not sure). Admittedly, when handling 4,500 cards, there was a reasonable chance of the reader jamming on a card, requiring operator attention and thus slowing down the processing.


re
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

reference:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP2040.html

it says that the machine cycle time is 625nanosec ... but that isn't the 360 processing speed ... that is the native machine cycle time ... the question is what is avg. machine cycles per 360 instruction.

the has arithmetic instructions between 5,400-133,300 per second (100kips or less)

it has memory cycle time of 2.5microseconds with data width of 16bits/2bytes

to do a full-word add requires two memory fetches for the instruction (four bytes) or 5microseconds plus another two memory fetches for the full-word data (four bytes) or 5microseconds for a total of 10microseconds (just the instruction and data fetch, 8bytes takes equivalent of 16machine cycles) ... plus whatever time it takes to execute the add instruction.

dhrystone mips is the ratio of interations/sec to reference standard interations/sec of 370/158 ... assumed to be 1MIPS processor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second

this has IBM 360/40 at only 40-75KIPS (not 100KIPS) 360
http://www.roylongbottom.org.uk/cpumix.htm

and 360/50 at 133-169KIPS, and 360/65 at 540KIPS

if you assume that 360/40 native microcode engine executed one native instruction per machine cycle ... then the native engine is around 10**9/625 or around 1.6MIPS ... then at 75KIPS 360, it is doing avg. of 21 native instructions per 360 instruction. However, heavy I/O would have integrated channel "cycle stealing" from 360 emulation ... resulting in lower MIPS throughput (most MIPS benchmarks are done with no other activity).

the integrated channel on the low-end 360&370 did all the channel work on same processor emulating 360/370 instructions ... including the channel program operation and per-byte handshake with the controller. the controllers also perform quite a bit of out-board processing.

for instance 2701/2702/2703 telecommunication controllers had line-scanners for each port/line that handle the signal rise/fall and converted it into bits that were stuffed into byte for (byte-at-a-time) transfer to the channel.

The MIPS wiki has 8088 at .75MIPS or about ten times the 360/40 360 MIPS rate and possibly half the 360/40 native processing rate. However some of the 8088 i/o interfaces were more like low-level channel with processor doing byte-at-a-time.

xt/370 was a little more like larger 360/370s ... it ran modified version of vm370 on 68k processor used for 370 emulation getting about 100KIPS 370 throughput. however, I/O was message requests to cp88 running on native 8088 (aka cp88 & 8088 operating more like 360/65 external channel) ... which would then perform the i/o using xt hardware. The problem was that the pc/xt hard disk did 100ms per record ... significantly slower than mainframe disks.

By the time you get to 486 in the late 80s, it is 9MIPS (better than 100 times 360/40) and starting to see more sophisticated i/o interfaces that don't require the 486 for doing byte-at-time processing. you also started to see PC hard disks starting to surpass the mainframe disk throughput ... and mainframe disks were increasingly CKD dasd simulation on top of industry standard fixed-block disks (and real CKD DASD haven't been manufactured for decades).

past posts mentioning xt/370:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#42 bloat
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#23 Old IBM's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#5 IBM XT/370 and AT/370 (was Re: Computer of the century)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#29 Operating systems, guest and actual
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#75 Mainframe operating systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#52 Why not an IBM zSeries workstation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#55 Why not an IBM zSeries workstation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#89 database (or b-tree) page sizes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#28 IBM's "VM for the PC" c.1984??
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#19 Very CISC Instuctions (Was: why the machine word size ...)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#20 Very CISC Instuctions (Was: why the machine word size ...)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#24 HP Compaq merger, here we go again.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#43 IBM 5100 [Was: First DESKTOP Unix Box?]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#45 IBM 5100 [Was: First DESKTOP Unix Box?]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#4 IBM Mainframe at home
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#44 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#49 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#50 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#52 Mainframes and "mini-computers"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#76 HONE was .. Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#8 Alpha performance, why?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#56 ECPS:VM DISPx instructions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#40 IBM system 370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#29 BLKSIZE question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#7 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#10 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#11 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#13 Whatever happened to IBM's VM PC software?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#9 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#6 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#10 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#10 How to restore VMFPLC dumped files on z/VM V5.1
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#2 using 3390 mod-9s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#36 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006m.html#56 DCSS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#5 Not Your Dad's Mainframe: Little Iron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#14 RCA Spectra 70/25: Another Mystery Computer?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#29 "The Elements of Programming Style"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#30 "The Elements of Programming Style"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#1 "The Elements of Programming Style"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#14 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#23 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#7 Has anyone ever used self-modifying microcode? Would it even be useful?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#25 modern paging
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#5 Is computer history taugh now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#41 z/VM usability
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#61 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#43 Intel Ships Power-Efficient Penryn CPUs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#22 Was CMS multi-tasking?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#9 3277 terminals and emulators
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#73 Microsoft versus Digital Equipment Corporation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#33 What if the computers went back to the '70s too?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#38 "True" story of the birth of the IBM PC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#46 pc/370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#68 New machine code
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#2 Happy DEC-10 Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#18 Processes' memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#20 Processes' memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#24 Processes' memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#36 Processes' memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#42 Mythical computers and magazine reviews
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#46 Mythical computers and magazine reviews
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#70 LPARs: More or Less?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#8 What was the historical price of a P/390?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#10 What was the historical price of a P/390?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#78 Notes on two presentations by Gordon Bell ca. 1998
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#27 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not happened
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#64 JCL CROSS-REFERENCE Utilities (OT for Paul, Rick, and Shmuel)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#91 Has anyone successfully migrated off mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#27 M68k add to memory is not a mistake any more
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#42 Where are all the old tech workers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#74 zEC12, and previous generations, "why?" type question - GPU computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#77 zEC12, and previous generations, "why?" type question - GPU computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#79 zEC12, and previous generations, "why?" type question - GPU computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#8 AMC proposes 1980s computer TV series Halt & Catch Fire
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#10 AMC proposes 1980s computer TV series Halt & Catch Fire
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#13 AMC proposes 1980s computer TV series Halt & Catch Fire
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#18 "Highway Patrol" back on TV
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#30 model numbers; was re: World's worst programming environment?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#31 model numbers; was re: World's worst programming environment?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#8 'Free Unix!': The world-changing proclamation made30yearsagotoday
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#67 Is coding the new literacy?

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 00:01:18 -0700
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

as upthread,
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

after FS failure
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

there was mad rush to get products back into 370 pipeline (during FS period, internal politics were killing off 370 product efforts) ... 3033 and 3081 ... both using warmed over FS technology
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm

the 3033 was 168-3 logic mapped to 20% faster chips ... that also had tens times the circuits ... initially unused. late in the process, there was remap of some critical section to increase onchip operations ... getting 3033 to 1.5times 168-3 (instead of only 1.2times).

part of the 303x effort was an external (dedicated) "channel director" ... six external channels ... a 3033 might have three channel directors ... to get max. 16 channels.

the 303x "channel director" was actually the integrated channels from the 370/158 (but w/o the 370 simulation).

a 3031 was a repacked 370/158 microcode engine with just the 370 emulation and a second 370/158 microcode engine (as channel director) with the 370/158 integrated channel microcode. A 3031 tends to benchmark faster than 370/158 ... even tho it was the same microcode engine ... but it wasn't being shared with integrated channel microcode ... it has a 2nd 370/158 microcode engine for that.

a 3032 was a repackeged 370/168-3 using 303x channel director for external channels (instead of 2860s, 2870s, 2880s)
https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_ibm370syst68GuideUpdFeb76_2427999/GN20-3575_370-168_Guide_Upd_Feb76_djvu.txt

from above:
2870 Multiplexer Channels and attachment feature, 2860 Selector Channels and attachment feature, and 2880 Block Multiplexer Channels (one 2860, one 2880, or one 2870 with one selector subchannel is required)

... snip ...

recent posts mentioning 303x channel director:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#31 Hardware failures (was Re: Scary Sysprogs ...)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#62 Imprecise Interrupts and the 360/195
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#7 How many EBCDIC machines are still around?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#21 Write Inhibit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#24 IBM ACS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#21 Complete 360 and 370 systems found
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#83 Costs of core
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#103 Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#20 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#5 The SDS 92, its place in history?

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950:  Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 18:56:52 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
the 303x "channel director" was actually the integrated channels from the 370/158 (but w/o the 370 simulation).

a 3031 was a repacked 370/158 microcode engine with just the 370 emulation and a second 370/158 microcode engine (as channel director) with the 370/158 integrated channel microcode. A 3031 tends to benchmark faster than 370/158 ... even tho it was the same microcode engine ... but it wasn't being shared with integrated channel microcode ... it has a 2nd 370/158 microcode engine for that.

a 3032 was a repackeged 370/168-3 using 303x channel director for external channels (instead of 2860s, 2870s, 2880s)
https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_ibm370syst68GuideUpdFeb76_2427999/GN20-3575_370-168_Guide_Upd_Feb76_djvu.txt

2870 Multiplexer Channels and attachment feature, 2860 Selector Channels and attachment feature, and 2880 Block Multiplexer Channels (one 2860, one 2880, or one 2870 with one selector subchannel is required)


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

there was another case involving channel program processing latency and speed of the channel, channel transmission, and controller.

vm370 spooling/paging on 3330s formated three 4k records per track (I had done chained processing for both 2301&2314 and ordered seek queuing for 2314 for cp67 ... which was carried forwared to vm370).

trick in dynamically building page/spool channel program was to transfer all queued requests for the same cylinder on 3330 in one channel program and optimize the channel program to transfer maximum number of records per 3330 device revolution.

there could be queued record for slot1 on one track, slot2 on different track and slot3 for a 3rd track (all on the same cylinder). the issue was channel protocol required processing a seek-head ccw between transfer request for the previous record and the transfer request for the next record (on different track). to increase the revolution latency between the end of one 4k record and the start of the next, the actual track was formated with short "dummy" records to increase the latency ... allowing the channel to complete processing the seek-head ccw ... before the start of the next record had revolved passed the read/write head.

the elapsed latency channel processing specs for handling seek-head CCW required a 110-byte dummy record (in order to do transfers in one revolution). However, the 3330 track size only allowed for 101-byte dummy records.

I did a test program that varied the dummy record size and tested if the transfers were done in single revolution or required multiple revolutions. I then tested it on various machines in the disk engineering lab ... 145, 148, 4341, 158, and 3033 ... and also got some customers to run it on various configurations ... some involving non-IBM processors and/or non-IBM disk controllers.

145, 148, 4341 (integrated channels) and 168 (external channels) all could do the head-switch processing within the latency of 101-byte record rotation. Some configurations were able to do the head-switch processing in as little as a 50-byte dummy record. However, 158 and 3033 were only able to do head-switch 20-30% of the time (within the latency of 101-byte record rotation). Aka the 158 integrated channel was one of the slowest of the 370 line ... and carried forward to all the 303x machines (aka 168 with its 28x0 channels, did better than 3032 using the 303x channel director).

the 4341 integrated channel processing was so fast that it even did (3880/3380) 3mbyte/sec data streaming with small tweak.

past posts mentioning the channel head-switch CCW processing latency issue
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#7 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#9 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#11 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#12 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#3 YKYGOW...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#17 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#22 303x, idals, dat, disk head settle, and other rambling folklore
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#64 System/360 40 years old today
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#65 System/360 40 years old today
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#66 System/360 40 years old today
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#41 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#43 Hard disk architecture: are outer cylinders still faster than inner cylinders?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#55 IBM 3330
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#22 MVCIN instruction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#40 REAL memory column in SDSF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#33 Why magnetic drums was/are worse than disks ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#19 old vm370 mitre benchmark
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#23 The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#17 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#55 TOPS-10
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#52 Computer History Museum
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#74 Disksize history question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#12 Secret Service plans IT reboot
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#30 SHAREWARE at Its Finest
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#36 What was old is new again (water chilled)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#15 History of Hard-coded Offsets
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#74 relative mainframe speeds, was What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#61 32760?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#24 IBM ACS

other posts in thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 09:27:30 -0700
greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
Great Britain in the early 19th century (before the repeal of the Corn Laws) probably was the best farmed country ever, things like crop rotations, easily weeded row crops, etc, made increases in yields sustainable.Allowing cheap food in from the Dominions broke that, but it could be recreated. Limitations like lack of the main fertilizers (phosperous, kainit) would be hard to make up (probably, analogous to oil, lower quality deposits would be exploited.)

for the fun of it, i recently finished reading "An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations" (free ebook on kindle) ... which had a lot to say about corn laws.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:08:54 -0700
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
And faster. e.g. 780 ns on 360/91.

instruction timing for all models of 360
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/360/A22_6825-1_360instrTiming.pdf

originally announce were 360/60 and 360/70 (see above) ... and then they improved memory from 1mic to 750ns and changed model numbers to 360/65 & 360/75.

from above, a (full-word) load is 30:32ms, 40:11.88ms, 50:4ms, 60:2.69ms, 62:1.62ms, 70:1.04ms

functional characteristics give individual timing
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/360/funcChar/

65 (&67) and 75 had 8byte fetch. instruction times included prorated part of instruction fetch (i.e. 2byte instruction includes 1/4th of 750ns) plus the time for operand accesses.

67 was basically 65 with the addition of address translate hardware ... in non-translate mode ... memory access times were same as 65, aka 750ns. In address translate mode, 150ns was added, increasing access time to 900ns (for latency in doing each address translation through the hardware associative array ... of course if the address wasn't in the associative array, there would be additional latency loading resolving address requiring memory accesses to the segment and page tables).

on 360/65, a full word load instruction would have half the 750ns plus 750ns operand or 1.125msecs ... plus instruction time ... including calculation of address from base register, index register, and displacement. 360/65 functional characteristic has load at 1.3msecs

The 360/75 functional characteristic has load at .80msecs ... less than the memory access. pg5 describes interleaving, independent storage unit operation, and sequential access gives effective rate of 400ns per double word (logical storage operation of 16bytes wide):
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/360/funcChar/A22-6889-0_360-75_funcChar.pdf

on 360/67 (in address translate mode) it becomes half the 900ns plus 900ns operand or 1.350msecs

this explains channel to controller interface .... for 3rd party building their own controlleres.
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ibm/360/A22-6843-3_360channelOEM.pdf

I've mentioned before, as undergraduate in the 60s ... adding tty/ascii terminal support to cp67 (which ibm turned around and distributed in standard product) ... and I had tried to make the 2702 terminal controller do something it couldn't quite do. Somewhat as result, univ. had a clone controller project, started with interdata/3 with channel interface board and programed to emulate 2702. Later it was enhanced to cluster with interdata/4 handling the channel interfaces and multiple interdata/3s doing line/port scanning. four of us get written up as responsible (for some part of) clone controller business. some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#360pcm

this claims major motivation for Future System effort was countermeasure to clone controllers (by former IBM executive)

The rise and fall of IBM
http://www.ecole.org/en/seances/CM07

from above ("react" reference is to clone controllers):
IBM tried to react by launching a major project called the 'Future System' (FS) in the early 1970's. The idea was to get so far ahead that the competition would never be able to keep up, and to have such a high level of integration that it would be impossible for competitors to follow a compatible niche strategy.

... snip ...

past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

internal politics during the FS period resulted in suspending and/or killing off 370 efforts ... and the lack of 370 products during the FS period is credited with giving the clone processors a market foothold.

posts in thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#26 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:13:53 -0700
greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
China, famously, do not eat raw vegetables. An Americans memory of the Korean war, "Everything smelled of shit"

I've mentioned before my wife's dad was posted to china (after end of hostilities europe) as advisor to Chiang Kai-shek and got to take his family with him to Nanking. Her mother's letters home to her mother talk about some of this (I've been able to scan most of them, although not OCR). There was comment that anything from local fields had to be soaked overnight in clorine water.

recent refs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#41 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#70 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#19 UK government plans switch from Microsoft Office to open source
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#29 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#58 RR songs, was Re: e50th/60th anniversary of SABRE--real-time airline reservations computer system

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 17:27:16 -0700
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
And since the idea of FS was to keep the applications away from the hardware by an extra layer, the AS/400 put that idea into practice when the technology was ready - still here today, using PowerPC chips, as the System i.

A fitting letter, given as it's the most IBM-ish of the options, whereas System x is getting ready to be crossed out and sold to Lenovo.

So they don't throw away an idea, even if it is unripe the first time - as with the STRETCH, a pipelined disappointment, and the Model 91, their second try.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#26 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#28 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

and I've periodically mentioned that is part of what killed FS ... the many layers between the hardware and the application enormously affected throughput. study was done about ACP/TPF (airline control program) running on 370/195 ... if moved to FS machine built from same/fastest available technology would have throughput of 370/145 ... around factor of 20-30 times reduction in throughput.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

the folklore is after failure of FS ... a few retreated to rochester and did the system/38 ... low-end FS. In the very low-end market there wasn't the throughput issue that constrained things in the mid-range and high-end. Also, for the low-end market they were able to simplify a lot of things ... which then wouldn't have been able to scaleup.

as/400 was initially supposed to be 801/risc chips ... converging s/34, s/36, and s/38 (and dropping some of the more difficult FS features). For various reasons the 801/risc effort ran into problems and they dropped back to more traditional cisc chip. A decade later they do move to 801/risc with powerpc chips.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_i

I've also periodically mentioned that I would continued to work on 360/370 stuff and periodically ridicule what they were doing ... as well as claiming some of the stuff I was doing was significant better than some of their fanciful bluesky

part of FS was one-level-store ... all files mapped as memory object ... with a lot seemingly pulled from tss/360. I had been involved in some benchmarking between tss/360 and cp67 at the univ on the same 360/67 ... with synthetic script doing fortran program, edit, compile, execute ... cp67 with 35users had better throughput and response than tss/360 with four users doing same script. When I was doing paged-mapped virtual filesystem in the early 70s ... I considered I was not doing all the stuff that I had observed being done wrong in tss/360 (and FS & S/38 would continue to do). I could show three times the throughput for moderate filesystem i/o benchmark (compared to standard cms filesystem) ... but it was never shipped ... possibly contributing factor was the bad repuation that memory mapped filesystems got in the wake of FS (again filesystem throughput wasn't issue for s/38 customers) misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap

recent posts mentioning as/400 &/or s/38
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#23 Scary Sysprogs and educating those 'kids'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#11 Mac at 30: A love/hate relationship from the support front
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#68 Salesmen--IBM and Coca Cola
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#84 CPU time
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#75 Bloat
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#76 assembler
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#7 Last Gasp for Hard Disk Drives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#48 Before the Internet: The golden age of online service
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#50 The mainframe turns 50, or, why the IBM System/360 launch was the dawn of enterprise IT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#53 The mainframe turns 50, or, why the IBM System/360 launch was the dawn of enterprise IT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#39 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#49 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#96 IBM architecture, was Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#97 IBM architecture, was Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#9 With hindsight, what would you have done?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#69 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#70 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#72 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#73 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#74 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#87 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#18 IBM Programmer Aptitude Test
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#96 Demonstrating Moore's law
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#100 No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:02:58 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
VM definitely flies, but its simplicity brings its own set of problems. DCSS are kludges, with the systems programmer forced to map memory himself to avoid conflicts. A lot of things have been done since early VM/370 days to facilitate sharing. The Shared File System is a performance dog, or was when I last saw it. I don't think shared read/write memory is possible outside of GCS.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#30 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

part of mad rush after death of FS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

possibly contributed to decision to pickup a lot of stuff that I had been doing during the FS period and release for vm370 ... some old email:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#email731212
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750102
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email750430

however, the page-mapped filesystem wasn't going to be released (even tho it was significantly more efficient and higher throughput than standard cms filesystem). however, they still wanted a lot of the stuff that I had done for putting cms into r/o shared segments ... so they came up with the DCSS kludge and forced a lot of the stuff into DCSS.

in the original ... anything that was in a cms filesystem had the option of being loaded shared (modulo it would actually work in shared environment). the full implementation included the same instance being shared at different locations in different virtual address spacess ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon

DCSS required a unique address across the whole complex ... and the total possibly number of shared things exceeded the 24bit, 16mbyte virtual address size (s/38 used something similar but got around the unique requirement by going to 48bit virtual address) ... which resulted in some DCSS things being assigned the same virtual address range ... and not being able to be used concurrently.

some amount of the pieces were picked up and shipped in standard vm370 release 3. Then decision was made to package other pieces as guinea pig for starting to charge for kernel software (lots of the stuff was originally being shipped in cp67 but got dropped in the simplification from cp67 to vm370)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare

original 23jun69 unbundling announcement (outgrowth of all the litigation) including starting to charge for application software, but they managed to make the case that kernel software should still be free
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle

however, with the rise of clone processors (in large part because of lack of 370 products during the FS period), the decision was made to start charging for kernel software (and my resource manager was the first guinea pig). They couldn't just switch from all kernel being free to it being charged for ... so they started charging for new code that was incrementall addons ... and over a period of a few years, increasingly having more things charged for (and fewer free).

besides the periodically mentioned destruction of corporated culture (change to make no waves and sycophancy) ... other unintended consequences of FS was the rise of clone processors and starting to charge for kernel software.

also as i've mentioned periodically another flavor worked on as part of system/r (original releational/sql)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr

was DWSS (read/write sharing) ... but when went to do technology transfer to endicott for sql/ds ... endicott didn't want any vm370 modifications. a few past posts mentioning DWSS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#18 Computer of the century
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#55 Multics dual-page-size scheme
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#23 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#26 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#16 Is the teaching of non-reentrant HLASM coding practices ever defensible?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#39 Why these original FORTRAN quirks?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#11 long ago and far away, vm370 from early/mid 70s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#26 moving on
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#14 more shared segment archeology
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#19 Mainframe running 1,500 Linux servers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#97 History of copy on write
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#32 REFRPROT History Question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#37 PDP-10 byte instructions, was What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#56 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#75 Still not convinced about the superiority of mainframe security vs distributed?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#110 IBM mainframes, was PDP-11 architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#82 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses

other past posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#26 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#28 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:12:29 -0700
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
Hey they squeezed more work out of the workers for less money. Surely that warrants more compensation?!

one of the periodic refs
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/09/04/opinion/04reich-graphic.html?ref=sunday

one of the metrics raised is family income ... the percentage increase in two-worker families being used to obfuscate stagnation of individual compensation (and increasingly corporate profit as a result of enormous increase in productivity being skimmed off by those at the very top).

past posts mentioning growing inequality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#inequality

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:07:11 -0700
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#32 Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak

reference to ceo to avg worker pay ratio
http://johnhively.wordpress.com/2014/01/08/ceo-pay-an-international-comparison/

past inequality posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#inequality

past references to top executive to avg. worker pay ratio having exploded in the US to over 400:1
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#73 Should The CEO Have the Lowest Pay In Senior Management?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#24 To: Graymouse -- Ireland and the EU, What in the H... is all this about?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008j.html#76 lack of information accuracy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008k.html#71 Cormpany sponsored insurance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#25 Taxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#33 Taxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#53 Are family businesses unfair competition?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#93 What do you think are the top characteristics of a good/effective leader in an organization? Do you feel these characteristics are learned or innate to an individual?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#2 Blinkylights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#58 Traditional Approach Won't Take Businesses Far Places
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#14 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#17 realtors (and GM, too!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#61 The vanishing CEO bonus
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#5 Greed - If greed was the cause of the global meltdown then why does the biz community appoint those who so easily succumb to its temptations?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#41 Executive pay: time for a trim?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#44 Executive pay: time for a trim?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#50 Greed Is
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#80 Are reckless risks a natural fallout of "excessive" executive compensation ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#25 The recently revealed excesses of John Thain, the former CEO of Merrill Lynch, while the firm was receiving $25 Billion in TARP funds makes me sick
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#41 The subject is authoritarian tendencies in corporate management, and how they are related to political culture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009d.html#3 Congress Set to Approve Pay Cap of $500,000
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#73 Most 'leaders' do not 'lead' and the majority of 'managers' do not 'manage'. Why is this?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009f.html#2 CEO pay sinks - Wall Street Journal/Hay Group survey results just released
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#44 What TARP means for the future of executive pay
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009o.html#37 Young Developers Get Old Mainframers' Jobs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#48 Opinions on the 'Unix Haters' Handbook
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#8 search engine history, was Happy DEC-10 Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#39 Agile Workforce
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#33 The 2010 Census
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#62 Dodd-Frank Act Makes CEO-Worker Pay Gap Subject to Disclosure
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#67 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#22 60 Minutes News Report:Unemployed for over 99 weeks!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#59 They always think we don't understand
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#66 They always think we don't understand
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#71 They always think we don't understand
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#10 OODA in highly stochastic environments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#80 Chinese and Indian Entrepreneurs Are Eating America's Lunch
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#53 Productivity And Bubbles
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#13 The Seven Habits of Pointy-Haired Bosses
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011j.html#69 Who was the Greatest IBM President and CEO of the last century?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#28 computer bootlaces
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#147 The Myth of Work-Life Balance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#25 You may ask yourself, well, how did I get here?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#26 What's your favorite quote on "accountability"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#12 Sun Tzu, Boyd, strategy and extensions of same
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#19 "Buffett Tax" and truth in numbers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#26 Strategy subsumes culture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#31 PC industry is heading for more change
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#43 Where are all the old tech workers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#44 What's the most interesting thing you do in your non-work life?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#90 IBM Doing Some Restructuring?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012d.html#16 IBM cuts more than 1,000 U.S. Workers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#91 The Fractal Organization: Creating sustainable organizations with the Viable System Model
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012f.html#77 Vampire Squid
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#73 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#81 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#84 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#3 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#31 How do you feel about the fact that today India has more IBM employees than US?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#32 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#41 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#36 Race Against the Machine
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#40 Core characteristics of resilience
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#87 Cultural attitudes towards failure
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#65 General Mills computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#64 IBM Is Changing The Terms Of Its Retirement Plan, Which Is Frustrating Some Employees
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#33 IBM Spent A Million Dollars Renovating And Staffing Its Former CEO's Office
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#10 The Knowledge Economy Two Classes of Workers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#28 Flag bloat
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#50 IBM Furloughs U.S. Hardware Employees to Reduce Costs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#51 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#91 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#14 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#15 Why IBM Is Tumbling: BRIC Sales Plunge, Total Revenue Lowest Since 2009
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#29 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#81 The Tragedy of Rapid Evolution?

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:30:10 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
Yes, not unique addresses across the complex, but segments which might be used by the same application must have unique addresses. (of course you know this, but just for the record)

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#31 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

each DCSS required unique address across the complex. when somebody wanted to use something like APL (in a dcss) and SCRIPT (gml, document formater in a DCSS) that had been defined for the same address range (because of other requirements for concurrent operation) ... the system people would define multiple different DCSS for SCRIPT and/or APL at different addresses.

rather than use the default DCSS for the operation ... people would have to know about the alternative DCSS and which ones happened to interoperate with each other (and not conflict). This reduces the effectiveness of having shared pages .... since each DCSS instance had its own unique set of shared pages. in the worst case scenario ... it degrades to every running task having its own set of resident pages ... while technically shared ... they weren't because the different running tasks had selected their own unique combinations of DCSS.

my original implementation allowed a "shared module" image (from page-mapped filesystem)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap

to be loaded at arbitrary address. an individual running virtual address space could have any combination of shared images up to the maximum of 16mbyte virtual address space.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon

with DCSS the system managers predefined the available DCSS at specific addresses ... starting off selecting unique addresses for every DCSS ... until exceeded 16mbyte limit ... then they started defining some DCSS at virtual address overlapping other DCSS ... attempting to choose DCSS with overlapping addresses that they felt had low probability of users wanting to use concurrently.

then they started defining multiple different versions of the same application in different DCSS at different address ranges ... to satisfy requirement that different users might want different combinations of applications concurrently (or even the same user at different times). This typically required user awareness of all these details so that they could select the appropriate combination of specific DCSS for different operations.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 15:21:53 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
How did you get around the relocation problem? That's what TSSs PSECT did, and Linux stole the idea for PIC. Without segmentation the program requires special coding to handle being mapped at different addresses in different address spaces (virtual machines).

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#31 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#34 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

as repeatedly discussed ... i had to write a lot of special code ... especially several parts of CMS heavily leveraged os/360 which had no provision for disk resident executable images having address independent (os/360 "relocatable adcons" always required preloading the executable images and running through swizzling all the "relocatable adcons")
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon

the code dropped into vm370 for dcss for the stuff was small subset of the original w/o the paged-mapped support and with the dcss diagnose hack (and lot more responsibility/work placed on system administrator).

in many ways the cms code went directly in ... even one hit to CMS low core NUCON kernel table that was specifically for address independence (even tho the rest of vm370 side didn't go in) ...

past posts mentioning the CMS NUCON change for address independence leaking into CMS release:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#32 Alpha performance, why?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#27 SYSPROF and the 190 disk
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#23 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#62 Study: Data breaches continue to get more costly for businesses
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#91 Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:32:47 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
Segmentation starts all addresses in a segment at 0, so no relocation is ever necessary.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#31 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#34 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#35 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

360&370 used segment and page tables for virtual memory . each virtual address space had segment table ... and the running virtual address space was identified by the address of the origin of its segment table (aka STO) loaded into control register. The machines had associative array or table look aside buffer (TLB) that kept the most recent used mappings for virtual page to real page. The higher end machines TLBs kept around information for multiple virtual address spaces (so that all information in hardware TLB wasn't lost everytime switched virtual address space). 165/168 had a 7-entry "STO-stack" (seven most recently used virtual address spaces). Each TLB virtual page to real page mapping was taged with 3bit flag as to which STO it beloned to.

later with access registers in the 80s ... there were multiple control registers for virtual address spaces, with the default/home virtual address space and other virtual address spaces accessable. It was used by hardware tables that controlled calls to semi-privileged subsystem functions (w/o having the overhead of having to go thru kernel call). A "program call" could be made (analogous to library call using BALR instruction) ... and the hardware table could control which swap address space pointers and enter a different address space at called address. The semi-privileged subsystem then could access storage in the non-privileged calling applications. I've pontificated before about os/360 & descendents being tightly bound to pointer-passing API ... and MVS subsystems had horrible hack with "common segment/system" for doing pointer-passing API (I've pontificated quite a bit about growing problem that MVS had with the CSA solution).

360/67 just had 1mbyte segments and 4k pages ... 370 introduced 1mbyte and 64kbyte segments options along with 4k and 2k page options (control register bit would select 16 1mbyte segments or 256 64kbyte segments and 2k or 4k pages). running in 1mbyte mode, the top 4bits of the 24bit virtual address would index a four byte segment table entry which points to page table. If 4k page option, the next 8bits would index a 2byte page table entry ... which would provide the real 12bit page number (for that 12bit virtual page number).

"segments" could be used as unit of sharing ... multiple different segment tables pointing to the same page table. There was nothing in the hardware that required that the segment table entry offset for the same page table pointer, had to occur at the same address in every virtual address space.

however, os/360 real memory conventions were carried over into virtual address space environment ... where the virtual address space was treated as single contiguous area (and os/360 address constant convention effectively PINed any virtual shared objects at the same virtual address across all virtual address space). MVS slightly modified that ... every application was given its own 16mbyte virtual address space ... with the first 8mbytes (8 1mbyte segments) occupied by "shared" image of the MVS kernel. Each virtual address space also required CSA (initial common segment area, then common system area as size exceeded single 1mbyte segment). In order to pass argument to semi-privileged ... space had to be acquired in the CSA, and then kernel call be made to transfer control to the subsystem. The subsystem then acquires the parameters out of the CSA (pointed to by the passed pointer). The size of the CSA became somewhat proportional to the amount of concurrent activity (number of applications running) and the number of subsystems. Larger 3033 systems (before access registers & 370/xa), some customer CSAs werre threatening to exceed 6mbytes i.e. application 16mbyte virtual address space, MVS kernel image takes 8mbytes, size of CSA takes 7or8 mbytes ... leaving only 1mbyte (or zero) for the application,

MVS in the 3033 timeframe was also getting increasingly horribly bloated and 16mbyte real memory was becoming a real bottleneck. They did a special hack that allowed up to 64mbyte real memory ... on machine that only did 24bit addressing. The 370 halfword (16bit) page table entry (PTE) had two undefined bits. Those two undefined bits were used for a 14bit (4k) real page number ... allowing mapping of 24bit virtual address to 26bit real address (stuff above the 16mbyte line could only be addressed with 24bit virtual addresses mapped to 26bit real address). They also did a hack with IDALs ... 370 extension to I/O CCW that provided for a full-word address data pointer (so i/o could be done above the 16mbyte line).

Original 370 architecture also included R/O segment protect bit defined in the segment table entry i.e. a shared segment could have multiple STE pointers ... some could have the STE protect bit on and other could have r/w access. This could be used for server/client type operation with the server virtual address space having r/w access to a segment that all the client virtual address spaces only had r/o access. As I've periodically mentioned, retrofitted all the 370 architecture to 370/165 was threatening a six month schedule slip in announce ... and they decided to eliminate several 370 architecture features ... including bit in the STE that provided segment protect. Other machines that had already implemented the full 370 architecture had to eliminate the dropped features ... and any software that had been written (like vm370/cms) had to change their implementation dependent on the dropped features (mostly dropping back to the 2k storage protect keys from 360).

My issue doing CMS segment sharing in conjunction with page-mapped filesystem was a CMS user might have 8mbyte virtual machine address space (128 64kbyte segments) leaving 128 64kbyte segments for sharing. Original implementation allowed any combination of shared segments to packed into the 128 64kbyte segments. In the DCSS change each shared object (one or more 64kbyte segments) had to have a fixed, predefined address across the whole complex. The total number of things that might be defined at unuque, fixed address for DCSS quickly exceeded the available space ... so installations started having to define various DCSS things at the same virtual address ... precluding that they be used concurrently. A user might have more than enough available virtual address space to concurrently use different combinations of DCSS shared objects ... but couldn't because they had fixed, predefined virtual address conflicts.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
and
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon

recent posts mentioning access registers, dual address-space mode, and/or common segment/system area
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#54 Difference between MVS and z / OS systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#62 Difference between MVS and z / OS systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#40 The mainframe turns 50, or, why the IBM System/360 launch was the dawn of enterprise IT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#22 Complete 360 and 370 systems found
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#83 Costs of core
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#86 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses

other recent posts mentioning DCSS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#33 Warnings for the U.S. military about innovation and the information age: The Pentagon looks like a minicomputer firm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#22 23Jun1969 Unbundling Announcement
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#91 Fifty Years of nitpicking definitions, was BASIC,theProgrammingLanguageT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#85 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#86 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses

other recent posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#26 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#28 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#30 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

OT this guy salary one dollar

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: OT this guy salary one dollar
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 09:52:21 -0700
rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) writes:
Indeed, the language used is often something like "for $1.00 and other valuable considerations"...

Note that the "other valuable considerations" *can* be cash, but by phrasing it that way sometimes companies don't have to disclose the amount in their 10-K/10-Q filings.


later part of 90s, we did consulting on the dataprocessing change-over for 2000 census for the commerce dept. for free ... but did it through subcontractor.

closest of anything official was when commerce dept has having big audit/review ... and I was asked to stand-up in front of the room and answer an all day session of questions.

we then offerred to do something similar for VA dataprocessing ... but that apparently was way too threatening to the big beltway bandits.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:05:50 -0700
greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
Even in my time, say 60 years ago or so, crop failures were common, Things like `turnip fly' could devestate brassicas, and grasshoppers could eat out whole areas in the US. (In that case, the cure (DDT) was almost as bad as the disease)

combine groups would make the harvest circuit in the midwest ... farmers that couldn't justify buying their own combine(s) would contract with them for the harvest. some years, the harvest was so bad, that the yield didn't even cover paying for the harvesting (less than 3bushels/acre, good yr 4-5bushels/acre). then I read an article about the palouse hills in SE washington where they got 100bushels/acre. past refs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#42 Farm kids
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#52 Big Brother -- Re: National IDs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#38 IBM/Watson autobiography--thoughts on?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#41 dollar coins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009e.html#68 School traditions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#75 taking down the machine - z9 series

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 10:31:17 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
I thought we'd discussed this, sorry. But... if one VM wants to load the code at '200000'x and the other at '400000'x what happens? The ADCONs have to be relocated for each load address, so you can't share the relocated image between the two VMs. OS/2 solves this problem by having a "shared arena" where shared code is loaded which is mapped into all address spaces; is this what you did?

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#35 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#36 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

... nope, I removed (os/360) relocatable adcons from the code. The biggest problem in straight CMS code was svc202 which had provision for (unalighed, "al4") 4byte error return address following the svc202. If the first byte following svc202 was zero, it was assumbed to be the error return address ... no error and 1st byte zero ,,, it would return plus four, error and 1st byte zero, it would load the assumed address and to to that address, no error and 1st byte non-zero, it would return +0, error and 1st byte non-zero it would return but take a system defined error processing. my hack that leaked into the regular system was to define a svc202 instruction in low-core NUCON ... application could stuff (virtual address specific) error return address and BAL r14,svc$202
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon
and
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap

for instance, theo did fulist, browse, and ios3270 ... old email with theo ... about moving fulist, browse, and ios3270 to relocatable (location independent) shared segment ... had to first remove all internal data/scratch areas and then remove all relocatable adcons.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#email781010
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#email781011
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#email790316
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#email791012

posts mentioning theo, fulist, browse, ios3270
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#8 Theo Alkema
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#9 Theo Alkema
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#63 creat
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#14 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#39 FULIST
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#0 IBM 360 Model 20 Questions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#21 paged-access method
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#32 Getting at the original command name/line

As previously mentioned MVS addressed the issue with having both an 8mbyte kernel image in every 16mbyte application virtual address space as well as (initially) 1mbyte CSA/common segment area (later threatening to grow to 8mbytes as common system area ... threatening to leave no space at all to the application).

S/38 addressed the problem of having unique system-wide assigned virtual address for everything (files, programs, data) ... by moving to 48bit virtual addresses (a s/38 was relatively small scale operation with little danger of exhausting 48bit virtual address space).

posts mentioning futuresys
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

trivia: ... there had been situation where the PROFS (officevision) group had originally taken a very early source version of VMSG for the PROFS email client. when the author of VMSG offerred them an updated version, the PROFS group tried to get him fired (the group having taken credit for everything in PROFS). The whole thing somewhat quieted down after the VMSG author showed that every PROFS email in the world had his initials in a non-displayed field. Both Theo and VMSG author got caught up in situation that they weren't going to get credit for their work ... until it was pointed out that both individuals were members of the EU where workers' rights were different than the US.

other triva ... the VMSG author had also done parasite/story ... a HLLAPI-like 3270 programming language ... predating the IBM/PC ... parasite/story examples:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#35 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#36 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:03:36 -0700
hancock4 writes:
Did the "Oracle" database originally run on IBM mainframes years ago? I seem to remember ads for it, but aren't sure.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#20 How Larry Ellison Became The Fifth Richest Man In The World By Using IBM's Idea

mentions some of the history ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_DB2

it now runs on ibm mainframe linux:
DB2 for z/OS arguably has fewer direct competitors. Oracle is attracting customers to its Linux on System z products, although apparently not at the expense of DB2. Oracle has a 31-bit RDBMS available for z/OS (Oracle Database 10g Release 2), but Oracle found it difficult to compete with DB2's feature set on z/OS. Oracle has announced it will support 10g on z/OS as long as customers wish, but the company will not introduce future versions of its database product on z/OS. CA-Datacom and Software AG's ADABAS are competing databases for z/OS, and there are certain niche products as well (Model 204, SUPRA SQL,[9] NOMAD, etc.) Non-relational databases that "compete" include IMS, and CA-IDMS, among others. At least some open source databases are ostensibly compatible with z/OS UNIX System Services.

... snip ...

the official dbms for ibm was going to be EAGLE ... was able to do System/R tech transfer to endicott for SQL/DS "under the radar" with the corporate attention on EAGLE ... when EAGLE imploded there was request for port of systemr/sqlds to MVS ... which become DB2 ... originally announced for analytics and business decision support (*ONLY*).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr

more sql/rdbms & system/r history
http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2013/11/20/ibm_system_r_making_relational_really_real/

1985 computerworld ... Oracle originally designed for IBM mainframe and DEC superminis.
http://books.google.com/books?id=h81aecuhbNMC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=ibm+mainframe+oracle+1983&source=bl&ots=2P4H-H5iG4&sig=u8XwYmE_vjA1bkJuyxyUz2Ic34E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=87whVKj5GsPtoATdi4HABg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=ibm%20mainframe%20oracle%201983&f=false

from aug2009, "Oracle Database Abandons z/OS"
http://www.longpelaexpertise.com/ezine/Oracle_zOS.php

oracle official history ... mostly business history, but does have item that oracle version 3, rewritten in C is first RDBMS for mainframes, minicomputers, and PCs
http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/history/index.html

more oracle history ... but much the same
http://www.dba-oracle.com/t_history_oracle.htm

more oracle history ... but comment about mainframes still mostly the same
http://www.orafaq.com/wiki/Oracle_Corporation

from above:
1986 - Oracle 5 released. Featured true client/server, VAX-cluster support, and distributed queries. First DBMS with distributed capabilities.
1987 - CASE and 4GL toolset
1988 - Oracle 6 released - PL/SQL introduced. Oracle Financial Applications built on relational database.
1989 - Released Oracle 6.2 with Symmetric cluster access using the Oracle Parallel Server
1991 - Reached power of 1,000 TPS on a parallel computing machine. First database to run on a massively parallel computer (Oracle Parallel Server).


... snip ...

I've periodically referenced jan1992 meeting in ellison's conference room
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

about doing oracle for ha/cmp
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
cluster scaleup ... some old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

as part of the effort, I had done distributed lock manager that supported vaxcluster API ... to make the port easier (however, both oracle & ingres people contributed analysis about the major things that vaxcluser had done wrong which needed correction to improve throughput).

the mainframe DB2 people started complaining that if we were allowed to go ahead, our ha/cmp cluster scaleup with oracle would be at least five years ahead of them. that possibly contributed to cluster scaleup was transferred by the end of jan1992 (and then announced as IBM supercomputer for technical and scientific *ONLY*) and we were told we couldn't work on anything with more than four processors. This was significant factor in the decision to leave; trivia ... some of the same executives had been earlier involved in not allowing us to bid on what becomes the NSFNET backbone (precursor to modern internet) ... some old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet
and past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#nsfnet

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Neon vs. incandescent indicator lights; The Lonely Computer; electron excitement

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Neon vs. incandescent indicator lights; The Lonely Computer; electron excitement
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:58:29 -0700
hancock4 writes:
It seems that computer consoles always used neon lights. However, telephone switchboards and telephone sets always used tiny incandescent lights for signals and lighting (until LEDs were perfected).

In electric shop we built a NIM board came, and we used neon indicator lights.

Could anyone explain why neon vs. incandescent would be used as an indidcator in a particular application? Or, why were incandescents used as computer indicators or neons in telephone switchboards and sets?

Along those lines is a story from GE Computer history about "The Lonely Computer". They had an early machine that ran fine during the day shift, but overnight would be out gibberish. They couldn't figure out the problem. Finally they realized that having the room lights turned on was necessary to proper functioning. The neon lights on the console, a critical part of the J/E flip flop circuit, were sensitive to ambinet lighting, with the "ionization potential" shifting between light and darkness.


i've periodically retold the UCB cdc6600 story about thermal shutdown sametime every (tues?) morning. turns out it coincided with weekly lawn watering and interval between classes ... when lots of people were flushing toilets ... dropping water pressure and cutting cooling to the machine.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#20 He Who Thought He Knew Something About DASD
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#96 A Blast from the Past
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009j.html#72 A Complete History Of Mainframe Computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#26 EPO's (Emergency Power Off)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#33 Interesting News Article

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:14:24 -0700
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
The machines are POS so they should not hesitate to replace them with something better. The hacking is going to become more frequent and eventually they will have to be replaced anyway.

there was large US rollout of the chip"smart" credit cards in 2000 ... however they actually made fraud worse .... before the rollout I tried to explain to them the problem ... but they were so myopicly focused on something else, they couldn't understand what i was saying.

old report of presentation at cartes2002 (i have softcopy of the presentation but it says confidential all over it) ... gone 404, but lives on at the way back machine ... the yes card description is at the bottom of the page.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030417083810/http://www.smartcard.co.uk/resources/articles/cartes2002.html

a FED LEO gave description at 2003 spring ATM integrity task force ... and somebody in the audience spontaneously exclaimed that they managed to spend billions of dollars to prove that chips have more fraud than magstripe.

in any case, all evidence of the US deployment appeared to disappear w/o a trace. speculation is that it was going to take quite awhile before another attempt was made in US (have repeated problem deployments in smaller countries where it wasn't as expensive).

some of the deployments in europe created incentive for the merchants and financial deployments by getting the burdon of proof in dispute, reversed (instead of institution having to prove the individual was responsible, the individual had to prove they weren't responsible, saving institutions enormous amount ... but would violate current REG-E in the US). In the UK the financial institutions even told the customers not to report fraud to the legal authorities ... but to report it to the financial institution. In the past, I was contacted by legal representative of person involved in one such dispute in the UK who claimed they weren't responsible for an ATM withdrawal ... it was now their responsibility to produce the ATM surveillance video proving that the withdrawal was made by some other person.

past posts referencing YES CARD
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard

disclaimer: in the mid/late 90s, i designed and prototyped chip that had none of the vulnerabilities and exploits that have appeared in various versions of other products ... part of presentation here, i commented that i started with $500milspec part and aggressive cost reduced it by 2orders (by 2001, 3orders) of magnitude ... while improving its integrity and security. 21st National Information Systems Security Conference (981007)
http://csrc.nist.gov/nissc/1998/index.html

also presentation at intel developers conference in the tpm/tcp track (gone 404, but lives on at wayback machine) Assurance Session at Intel Developer's Conference (20010227)
http://web.archive.org/web/20011109072807/http://www.intel94.com/idf/spr2001/sessiondescription.asp?id=stp+s13

patent portfolio on the subject ... all asigned
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadssummary.htm

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:05:46 -0700
simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
When was this? UK law has said for some years that the burden of proof lies with the card issuer.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

the possible scenario/justification was that transaction done with chip&pin was sufficient proof (drastically reducing institutional costs in dispute, and motivation to deploy support)

from 2007: Financial Ombudsman on Chip & PIN infallibility
https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/2007/02/08/financial-ombudsman-on-chip-pin-infallibility/

from above:
The right of parties in dispute to see the evidence involved is a basic component of justice systems, but the Financial Ombudsman has clearly not heard of this, but then again they are funded by the banks. While the bank can have their own experts examine the evidence, the customer cannot do the same. Although the Financial Ombudsman service can review the evidence, giving it to the customer would allow them to pursue further investigation on their own.
post referencing the 2007 article (or others)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#28 sizeof() was: The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#84 The hands-free way to steal a credit card
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#38 Top 10 Cybersecurity Threats for 2009, will they cause creation of highly-secure Corporate-wide Intranets?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#56 Credit cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012d.html#62 Gordon Gekko Says

Card fraud -- are banks doing the right thing?
http://conversation.which.co.uk/money/credit-debit-card-fraud-banks-report-scam/

from above:
But is it what actually happens? The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) recently said it was concerned that card providers are failing to investigate certain instances of fraud. It said that many people have contacted them complaining that their banks won't help them, simply because a correct PIN was used. However, under the Directive, use of a correct PIN alone is not enough proof that the cardholder has acted negligently.

... snip ...

a few more references in the past 2-4 yrs

Now banks are trying to pin the blame for card fraud on you Customers are increasingly being refused a refund after their bank card was stolen or accounts hacked
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/may/04/banks-pin-card-fraud
Victim of chip-and-pin fraud? It's all YOUR fault, insist the banks as they refuse payouts
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-2215223/Victim-chip-pin-fraud-Its-YOUR-fault-insist-banks.html
Card fraud: don't make victims pay
http://conversation.which.co.uk/money/bank-credit-card-fraud-victims-scam/
New flaws in chip and pin system revealed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/newsnight/susanwatts/2010/02/new_flaws_in_chip_and_pin_syst.html

past references to yes card
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard

some of the other URL refs from a 2007 post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#28 sizeof() was: The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?

Card victims told 'don't call police'
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/credit-and-loans/idfraud/article.html?in_article_id=418947&in_page_id=159
Concern over new fraud reporting
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/6513835.stm
New rules to report fraud announced
http://www.moneyexpert.com/News/Credit-Card/18106248/New-rules-to-report-fraud-announced.aspx
Anger at card fraud reporting changes - Law & Policy
http://management.silicon.com/government/0,39024677,39166633,00.htm
Banks charging to the top of the hate parade
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=508912007
Anger at card fraud reporting changes
http://www.silicon.com/financialservices/0,3800010322,39166633,00.htm
Financial institutions to report on card fraud
http://www.gaapweb.com/news/135-Financial-institutions-to-report-on-card-fraud.html
UK Tells Consumers To Report Financial Fraud to Their Banks
http://www.paymentsnews.com/2007/04/uk_tells_consum.html

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 17:57:01 -0700
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
<sigh> How different things are here in Canada. One day someone made some fraudulent purchases in Richmond (20 miles from here in a direction we never go). The bank phoned _us_ to ask whether the transactions were legitimate. They're good at spotting things that are out of the ordinary, and quick to straighten them out.

Sounds like the American banking system needs a thorough overhaul.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

those URLs (in the 2nd post) were in response to question about deployment in the UK ...

at one time, i had dbms with something like half million merchants ... out of something like 4million in the US ... ... from single POS terminals merchants ... to national chains of stores with large number of POS terminals in each store. At the time, the estimate was it would take $1B to replace every POS terminal in the US.

the first post was about large US deployment in 2000 ... during the yes card period ... with reference to chipcard/yes card fraud turned out to be worse than magstripe fraud ... in that wake, the deployment disappears with no trace. It then appears that the US will wait quite awhile before trying again (while all the glitches are worked out in smaller countries).

there is a separate issue in the US. over the years, the merchant "discount rate" (fees deducted from the amount reimbursed merchants) became heavily prorated by the associated fraud rate. The large US bank bottom line grew to 40% to 60% of their bottom line.

Doing this stuff with small client/server startup on what became known as "client/server" (they had also invented "SSL"), the business part mapped the MOTO-rules (mail order/telephone orders, which have traditionally had the highest fraud rate and the highest discount ... the least amount of money actually going to merchants) to "electron commerce"

In parallel with brick&mortar POS deployment around the start of the century ... there were several "safe" electronic commerce products pitched to merchants with high acceptance. Then the banks decided that rather than cutting the fee for "safe" transactions ... they would effectively add a surchage to the highest rate already being paid

Then came the cognitive dissonance, merchants have been indoctrinated for decades that primary factor in the high fees is associated fraud rate and were expecting that "safe" products would cut their rate by 90% ... instead they were told "safe" products (eliminating fraud) would have a discount rate that was a essentially large surcharge on top of the highest rate they were already paying ... and the whole things falls apart.

An article was written that by comparison, EU banks had only about 10% of their bottom line come from payment fees ... so a 90% hit to payment fees would only be around 9% of bottom line. However US banks that had 40%-60% bottom line from payment fees ... a 90% hit would be 36% to 54%. Some number of articles have been written about how the US banks have become addicted to their "fraud fees"

recent posts mentioning cognitive dissonance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#77 In a Cyber Breach, Who Pays, Banks or Retailers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#40 Missed Alarms and 40 Million Stolen Credit Card Numbers: How Target Blew It
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#17 Is it time for a revolution to replace TLS?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#37 Special characters for Passwords

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:31:05 -0700
"john james" <jj9801@nospam.com> writes:
Bet they don't, essentially because of Apple Pay.

While there are some who have said that they won't be bothering with Apple Pay, it remains to be seen if they will stick with that once it gets up a real head of steam as it looks very likely it will do, just like PayPal did.

Yes, what Google attempted flopped very badly indeed, but its unlikely that Apple Pay will do.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

part of the issue is that bank operating is setup from days when all transactions were done by humans ... typically dollar to several dollars. Dataprocessing has dropped electronic transactions to a couple penneys or much less ... with the banks keeping the difference as profit on their bottom line. Paypal came in to operate in the significant gap that opened up between what banks were charging and what it actually costs. Banks have been very ambivalent about Paypal ... they could have always come in and undercut Paypal ... but that would have accelerated the cannibalizing of their traditional business.

something similar was threatening traditional banking in mid-90s, articles and books written about how telcos/cellphones was going to take over finacial transaction business. The issue was spectre of micropayments ... the projected volumes were predicted to totally swamp the bank backends. The scenario was that telcos had developed technology to handle volume of cellphone call-records that ran 10+ times the transactions as banking did (using same hardware). The projected cellphone/telco costs to handle transaction was small fraction of penney ... so they had huge capability to undercut banking costs/profits (doing micropayments where banks couldn't compete and then moving up to take over the rest of the payment industry). So far, the micropayment business has yet to materialize and over past ten years, several financial operations have announced installation of technology that was originally developed for handling cellphone callrecords.

well it has been 15yrs since i tried to explain the problems to the guys doing the big US chip&pin deployment ... and they didn't get it, after deployment it started to dawn on them what the problems were (this was somewhat case, they didn't understand the explanation in the abstract ... they had to "experience" all the problems) ... and then the deployment disappears w/o a trace.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard

additional disclaimer ... the chip i did in mid/late 90s worked securely at point of sale, both contact & contactless ... and was required to work within the time & power constrain of transit turnstyle (aka "wave"). Other financial chips of the period consumed relatively enormous amounts of power&time to perform the transaction protocol ... and required contact to hide some security exposures and to supply the power. I had to have supper secure

transaction that could run wireless/contactless ... and perform a super secure transaction within the power supplied by the contactless transit terminal (and with the small subsecond time constraints).

Cellphone contactless/wirelss has less such constraints because it has battery to provide the power (not limited to the power that can be obtained from the RF signal from transit terminal, note in chip transaction protocol it is possible to somewhat trade-off power and time, significantly increasing power can used to reduce elapsed time, and battery in the portable device goes significantly helping with that).

newer, smaller, faster, lower-power circuits over the past 15-20yrs has made that easier ... but i had to do it within the chip technology available in the late 90s.

There was a different kind of EU contact chip that had deployment in NYC in the mid-90s ... it was "stored-value" (logically like the magstripe gift/merchant cards in the US) so was billed more like electronic money. they were pushing it for things like taxi-cab transactions. The consumer chip and the taxi-cab chip were place in terminal and value was transferred from one to another. As some point the taxi-cab chip would do transaction with financial institution terminal and transfer value to a bank account. Consumers would have to periodically do "loading" transactions. The idea was to enable ATM machines for this loading&unloading operations. We were asked to design&cost the backend dataprocessing system that could handle the whole USA. It turns out that working thru the numbers ... almost all the value went to the international authority over this particular chip ... in the form of float. The international authority sold value to national authority which sold it to banks in that country which sold it to consumers. It was somewhat null transaction for the national entities, with the float value flowing from the end-consumer to the international authority.

Then at one point, the EU banking authority declared that stored-value operators would have to start paying interest on the unspent value ... and the whole business case collapses ... and within a couple years it has disappeared (i.e. the chip technology and other stuff was somewhat to obfuscate & misdirect away from the fact it was just mechanism for giving the international authority the float on unspent value).

This particular operation was asked to look at the transit contactless operation ... (their chip power/time profile was nearly identical to all the financial chips of the period). They came up with a sleeve that could do the RF communication and draw power from contactless transit terminal. However they required an 10ft long electro-magnetic tunnel leading up to the transit terminal that people walked slowly through (to provide power/time to perform transaction). Adding a battery to the sleeve (more like a cellphone) would have mitigated some of the problem ... but they still couldn't make the small subsecond time constraints. a couple past posts mentioning the transit tunnel solution
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#7 EMV
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#28 taking down the machine - z9 series
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#50 What will contactless payment do to security?

so the constraints that i had to operate on in the mid/late 90s was using chip technology of the time, it had to be enormously more secure than any other financial transaction of the period with none of their vulnerabilities, be able to work contact & contactless, be able to work within the power & time of contactless transit terminal (where RF from the contactless transit terminal provided both communication and power for the operation), work with contact POS, contactless POS and through the internet.

other trivia, one of the EU chipcard operations was Digicash ... which set up an operation in silicon valley. when they ran into trouble, we were brought in to evaluate their patent portfolio for sell-off (trivia EEPROM they used in period had limited lifetime of 10k-30k stores, lots of the patents were minimizing number of EEPROM stores required per transaction; they were becoming quickly obsolete as EEPROM lifetime increased dramatically).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#57 The fundamental _barrier to entry_ in the business of payment systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#26 Fixing SSL (was Re: Dutch Transport Card Broken)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay6.htm#erictalk Announce: Eric Hughes giving Stanford EE380 talk this
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay6.htm#erictalk2 Announce: Eric Hughes giving Stanford EE380 talk this
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#39 "Trusted" CA - Oxymoron?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#53 Digital cash is the future?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#81 history of Programming language and CPU in relation to each other

some past posts mentioning the EU chip stored-value pilot in NYC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#1 Is there any future for smartcards?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#23 Payment systems - the explosion of 1995 is happening in 2006
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#31 On-card displays
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#41 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#49 Price point
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm6.htm#digcash IP: Re: Why we don't use digital cash
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm7.htm#idcard2 AGAINST ID CARDS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#12 US fiscal policy (Was: Bob Bemer, Computer Pioneer,Father of ASCII,Invento
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#10 Revoking the Root
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#27 sizeof() was: The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#9 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008i.html#53 Digital cash is the future?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#46 pc/370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008s.html#34 How do group members think the US payments business will evolve over the next 3 years?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#73 A mighty fortress is our PKI, Part II
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#84 CARD AUTHENTICATION TECHNOLOGY - Embedded keypad on Card - Is this the future
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011j.html#57 Graph of total world disk space over time?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#7 Selectric Typewriter--50th Anniversary
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#65 Reject gmail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#33 8080 BASIC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#20 Steve B sees what investors think
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#69 Why is the US a decade behind Europe on 'chip and pin' cards?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#47 TCP/IP Might Have Been Secure From the Start If Not For the NSA

some past posts mentioning micropayments (& telcos possibly taking over payment business):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#3 Is Time Right For Micropayments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#42 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#32 How does the smart telco deal with the bounty in its hands?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#imicro Authentication in eCommerce applications
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#21 Solving the problem of micropayments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#27 Solving the problem of micropayments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#28 Solving the problem of micropayments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#smrtcrd Smart Cards with Chips encouraged ... fyi
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay8.htm#epso ePSO-N 10 available on Internet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ansiepay.htm#micropay Micropayments & IETF ... fyi
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/ansiepay.htm#mapchng Suggested changes to Annex B, 8583 mapping
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#80 Authentication in eCommerce applications
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#1 Effective micropayments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#90 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009c.html#37 The 20th Century of Central Banking is over
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#46 SAP recovers a secret for keeping data safer than the standard relational database
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#12 U.S. operators take on credit cards with contactless payment trial
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011o.html#85 David Wheeler and the Subroutine
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#14 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#15 Is it time for a revolution to replace TLS?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#65 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#76 Did these tech and telecom companies assess the risk and return with respect to Anti-Money xLaundering challenges?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#48 Mainframe on NCIS

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 11:01:15 -0700
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

other trivia ... the institutions in the late 90s that the banks were really worried about was walmart and microsoft getting into the payment business (and undercutting the profit/botton-line that it represents to the financial industry). rhetoric on the floor of congress regarding GLBA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramm%E2%80%93Leach%E2%80%93Bliley_Act

was the primary purpose was to prevent Wallmart and microsoft from getting banking charter (if you already have a banking charter, you get to keep it, if you don't already have a banking charter, you can't get one) ... of course GLBA is now better known for repeal of Glass-Steagall
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#Pecora&/orGlass-Steagall
enabling too big to fail, too big to presecute and too big to jail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail

which leads to moral hazard where individuals feel there is no serious risk/consequences in fraudulent activities (gaming theory calculating probability of fine, size of fine ... compared to the enormous profits)

Then there was a lot of press in the early part of decade about the prospect of walmart buying a Utah ILC as workaround to GLBA (loophole where state institution can operate nationally). Walmart wanted it to be its own merchant transaction processor (eliminating the fees it was paying to its current merchant transaction processor, one of the too big to fail). The press was trying to get all the small community banks to write congress about the threat of wallmart to their business (obfuscation to it really being a threat to one of the too big to fail, walmart does something like 25-30% of US POS transactions ... so it would have been an enormous hit to the too big to fail bottom line). They eventually prevailed and blocked walmart's attempt to acquire utah ilc (although there are a lot of other interesting institutions that own Utah ILCs).

more trivia: as part of bailing out wallstreet, the federal reserve was giving out banking charters to various instituions (theoritically in violation of GLBA) ... TARP is mostly obfuscation ... being only $700B ... when it required large trillions to cover the too big to fail

past posts mentioning Utah ILCs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#36 3 of the big 4 - all doing payment systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#42 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#47 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#58 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#12 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#25 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#19 Does anyone know of merchants who have successfully bypassed interchange costs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#28 Why Asian companies struggle to manage global workers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#54 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#20 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#76 Did these tech and telecom companies assess the risk and return with respect to Anti-Money Laundering challenges?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#37 Married Couples and the Financial Mess
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#84 Support Senator Warren's Postal Banking Proposal
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#37 Sale receipt--obligatory?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#39 Sale receipt--obligatory?

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:38:34 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
other trivia ... the institutions in the late 90s that the banks were really worried about was walmart and microsoft getting into the payment business (and undercutting the profit/botton-line that it represents to the financial industry). rhetoric on the floor of congress regarding GLBA was the primary purpose was to prevent Wallmart and microsoft from getting banking charter (if you already have a banking charter, you get to keep it, if you don't already have a banking charter, you can't get one) ... of course GLBA is now better known for repeal of Glass-Steagall
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#Pecora&/orGlass-Steagall
enabling too big to fail, too big to presecute and too big to jail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail

which leads to moral hazard where individuals feel there is no serious risk/consequences in fraudulent activities (gaming theory calculating probability of fine, size of fine ... compared to the enormous profits)


ew:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

at one point i was asked to look at if walmart could do financial services within the current regulatory infrastructure (congress hasn't passed sufficient laws to cover all possibilities of competing with the wallstreet financial industry and their enormous profit margin ... w/o requiring a banking charter).

supposedly the #1 constantly requested item in walmart consumer surveys is for financial services. part of the issue is that they have a large "unbanked" base ... that are largely below the profit margin of standard banking business model (even tho dataprocessing has enormously reduced the costs and services could easily be provided at 1/10th currently and still make a profit). walmart does have bank branches in many of the stores ... but they are traditional financial institutions renting space inside walmart store.

so real banking services have been required to be done by dedicated tellers that are carefully restricted in what else they can do.

checkout lanes can do a whole set of services with gift/merchant stored-value cards (add value, buy value, subtract value by buying stuff, etc). it is even possible to do a traditional financial transaction to add value to merchant card.

so the secret was to define a walmart merchant/gift card that had a corresponding registerd banking account ... and define all the set of transactions merchant card transactions (at checkout lanes) that were equivalent of standard financial transactions ... and then design a set of automated backend dataprocessing push/pull transactions between the merchant card backend and traditional banking infrastructure. That way there are no traditional banking transactions being done at checkout lanes ... but through the magic of modern day banking dataprocessing, transactions at checkout lanes could be mapped into such banking transactions (w/o violating any existing laws and/or regulatory rules).

This would allow the large, low-margin unbanked population to be provided financial services at very low cost while still making a reasonable profit (w/o violating laws or regulations ... at least until the wallstreet financial lobbiests go to work on congress to fix such loopholes).

walmart would have to find a financial institution (with banking charter) that was willing to warehouse the matching/registered real bank accounts ... and accept bulk settlement transaction (rather than real separate financial transaction for each account, a batch settlement between the walmart merchant/gift card backend and the bank's backend ... with item level detail for each account; something that banks and merchants already do in the ACH system).

it is probably not surprising that almost nobody has heard of such a solution.

part of evolution of the too big to fail payment industry was being able to set fees proportional to fraud (with heavy profit margin) where the merchants are forced to pay the "fees". A merchant based system would view fraud purely as a cost item (rather than something to make profit on) and be much more incented to deploy the highest security implementation necessary.

for other trivia/drift some recent too big to fail items

5 U.S. Banks Each Have More Than 40 Trillion Dollars In Exposure To Derivatives
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-25/5-us-banks-each-have-more-40-trillion-dollars-exposure-derivatives
The SEC Coverup for Private Equity: Worse Than for TBTF Banks
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/sec-coverup-private-equity-worse-tbtf-banks.html
Secret Fed Tapes Recorded Goldman's Capital Game
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-26/secret-fed-tapes-recorded-goldman-s-capital-game
Why The Fed Doesn't Care About The Poorest Half Of Americans (In 1 Simple Chart)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-25/why-fed-doesnt-care-about-poorest-half-americans-1-simple-chart
Last Time this Happened, the Housing Market Crashed
http://wolfstreet.com/2014/09/25/last-time-this-happened-the-housing-market-crashed/
The Secret Recordings of Carmen Segarra
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/536/the-secret-recordings-of-carmen-segarra
Goldman Sachs Moral Compass?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-27/goldman-sachs-moral-compass
How Goldman Controls The New York Fed: 47.5 Hours Of "The Secret Goldman Sachs Tapes" Explain
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-26/how-goldman-controls-new-york-fed-475-hours-secret-goldman-sachs-tapes-explain
The Secret Goldman Sachs Tapes
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-09-26/the-secret-goldman-sachs-tapes
Protecting Power & Privilege Has Doomed Regimes Throughout History
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-26/protecting-power-privilege-has-doomed-regimes-throughout-history
Warren Calls for Hearings on New York Fed Allegations
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-26/new-york-fed-denies-allegations-of-bank-supervision-lapse.html
Tapes showing meek oversight of Goldman are about to rock Wall Street
http://nypost.com/2014/09/26/tapes-showing-meek-oversight-of-goldman-are-about-to-rock-wall-street/

this somewhat tries to spin FED as timid ... as opposed to "captured"

Why the Fed Is So Wimpy
http://blogs.hbr.org/2014/09/why-the-fed-is-so-wimpy/

posts mentioning regulatory capture:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011i.html#25 Happy 100th Birthday, IBM!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#7 FDR explains one dimension of our problem: bankers own the government
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#39 Greek knife to Wall Street
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#54 PC industry is heading for more change
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#20 The Big Fail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#35 Adair Turner: A New Debt-Free Money Advocate
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#25 Senator Sherrod Brown Drops a Bombshell in Mary Jo White's Hearing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#89 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#94 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#20 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#86 What Makes a thread about the European debt crisis Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#1 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#2 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#34 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#36 Fed proposes annual assessments for large financial companies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#55 OT: "Highway Patrol" back on TV
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013i.html#89 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#14 Barclays, Traders Fined $487.9 Million by U.S. Regulator
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#15 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#78 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#26 The agency problem and how to create a criminogenic environment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#29 The agency problem and how to create a criminogenic environment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#32 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#38 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#52 The agency problem and how to create a criminogenic environment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#1 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#7 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#48 Ex-Wall Street chieftains living large in post-meltdown world
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#52 Lehman Brothers collapse: was capitalism to blame?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#76 The Scholars Who Shill for Wall Street
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#77 OCC Replies to Elizabeth Warren Reveal Extent of Regulatory Capture on Derivatives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#8 copyright, was Re: 'Free Unix!': The world-changing proclamation made 30 yearsagotoday
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#90 Elizabeth Warren Responds To Third Way Attack By Asking Wall Street To Disclose Ties
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#81 Academics Who Defend Wall St. Reap Reward
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#3 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#50 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#68 Economists and our responsibilities to society

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:08:36 -0700
Dave <g4ugm@btinternet.com> writes:
I personally think DFS sucks as well. Its just too complex, and a typical response to "Marketing Pressure" to glue hierarchical files into a system which didn't understand them...

.. i it true itrs basically the SQL/DS database storing data as "BLOBS"... like Microsoft Sharepoint... Which also sucks....


several of the people from cambridge science center move out to san jose ... i move out to san jose research in the 70s about same time the person responsible for the interal network (and the technology used in the corporate sponsored univ BITNET). A little later, two of the people responsible for the invention of GML in 1969 ... the "G" and the "L" in GML move out to ibm san jose. trivia "L" did a lot of the early work on blobs in RDBMS ... but that was in the R-STAR timeframe

original tech transfer to endicott for sql/ds was system/r (original relational/sql implementation ... that was made available to some customers in joint studies ... but not as "real" product for various internal political reasons). R-STAR was follow-on to system/r that was for running in distributed environment.

system/r included DWSS ... sort of extension to my earlier shared segment work ... but allowing some virtual address space to have "write" access to the shared segment (instead of all just be r/o protected). This allowed for sort of client/server paradigm using shared segments ... server be able to r/w while clients just read.

in the tech. transfer to endicott ... they dropped DWSS because they wanted to ship w/o any changes to vm370.

posts mentioning paged-mapped filesystem work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap
posts mentioning difficulties getting code compatible with same shared segment executable images appearing concurrently at different virtual addresses in different virtual address spaces (or even in the same virtual address space)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#adcon

i've mentioned before that internal politics during FS period were killing off 370 efforts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

then with the demise of FS, there was a mad rush to get products back into the product pipelines (which likely contributed to decision to pick up pieces 370 stuff i was doing all during the FS period, for release) At the same time, the head of POK convinced corporate to kill-off vm370 product and transfer all the people from the burlington mall vm370 development group to POK or otherwise mvs/xa wouldn't ship on time (some 7-8 yrs later).

Endicott managed to save the vm370 product mission but had to reconstitute a development group from scratch. vmshare comments that vm370 still was suffering code quality issues as a result ... vmshare archives
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare

... into the period that sql/ds was being done ... which likely contributed to endicott decision to release sql/ds w/o any new vm370 dependencies/changes (vm370 release 3 was first release out of the burlington group after demise of FS with bits and pieces of my stuff, then separately priced released was made later in release 3 timeframe with a lot more of my other stuff, resource manager, page system rewrite, lots of changes to vastly improve integrity, misc. changes that had been done in restructuring logic necessary for multiprocessor support).

it is interesting that they are still trying to resolve some of this issues almost 40yrs later.

another example was SPM done by the ibm pisa science center for cp67 and then ported to vm370 ... which was integrated superset of the combined released IUCV and SMSG ... recent mention
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#1 Application development paradigms [was: RE: Learning Rexx]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#48 Before the Internet: The golden age of online service
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#93 Costs of core

posts mentioning science center
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
posts mentioning internal network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
posts mentioning BITNET (&/or EARN in europe)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet
posts mentioning GML ... precusor to SGML and HTML
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml
posts mentioning original relational/sql
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr

past posts in this thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#11 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#12 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#16 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#17 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#18 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#22 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#23 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#24 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#25 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#26 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#28 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#30 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#31 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#34 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#35 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#36 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#39 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 13:17:35 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
at one point i was asked to look at if walmart could do financial services within the current regulatory infrastructure (congress hasn't passed sufficient laws to cover all possibilities of competing with the wallstreet financial industry and their enormous profit margin ... w/o requiring a banking charter).

at the time of GLBA (claims on the floor of congress that the primary purpose of GLBA was to keep competition out of the banking business, especially walmart and m'soft) and for period afterwards we were on 18m temp. assignment living in Redmond area on joint project related to online financial transactions. part of what was going on was a joint subsidiary with m'soft that was providing "online bill pay" outsourced services for financial institutions (didn't directly need bank charter since was purely operating as dataprocessing outsourcing for financial institutions with existing bank charters).

m'soft had started out with spec that the servers be NT based. However, the business plan called for ramping up number of accounts that were far in excess of what could be handled by NT ... but was well withing the capability of various unix platforms. None of the m'soft employees wanted to explain the problem to the chairman of m'soft ... so i got elected. However, just before i was scheduled to give the explanation to m'soft chairman, some m'soft executives changed the business plan to limit the ramp up of the number of accounts to what could be handled by NT servers.

say bill pay was to electric company at a different financial institution ... all that day's payment transactions to that electric company would be aggregated into a single ACH transfer to the electric company's financial account with addenda record giving breakdown of ammounts for each of the electric company's customers. The electric company then gets a copy of the addenda record to update their billing system.

i was basically able to use such bulk/aggregated ACH operations in the specification for transfers between walmart merchant card operation and the corresponding registered back accounts (single aggregate transfer between walmart account and the hosting bank giving breakdown of individual bank account numbers ... breakdown of amount into an account and amout out of account) for highly economical translation of checkout counter transactions into banking account transactions.

past posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:27:41 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
which leads to "moral hazard" where individuals feel there is no serious risk/consequences in fraudulent activities (gaming theory calculating probability of fine, size of fine ... compared to the enormous profits)

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

latest update:

William R. Black on Prosecuting Criminal Banker CEOs: Obama and Holder Don't Even Care Enough to Fake It
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/william-r-black-prosecuting-criminal-banker-ceos-obama-holder-dont-even-care-enough-fake.html
Fed Whistleblower Carmen Segarra, Snowden, and the Closing of the Journalistic Mind
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/fed-whistleblower-carmen-segarra-snowden-closing-journalistic-mind.html
Bank CEOs are the New Drug Lords
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-29/bank-ceos-are-new-drug-lords

past posts on too big to fail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
and money laundering
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laudering

too big to fail getting their hand slapped caught money laundering for drug cartels and terrorist (smaller institutions would be shutdown and executives doing jail time)

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 10:24:41 -0700
simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
Is chip and PIN a perfect system? Good grief, no. Could it be improved? Certainly. Is it nonetheless better than mag stripes and signatures? Of course it is.

note that earlier refs are start of the century up through 2007, the laters refs are 2012-2013.

The yes card vulnerability was understood from chip&pin original design in the mid-90s ... but it was deployed anyway. There was myopic focus on lost/stolen ... but the increasingly fraud from early 90s was skimming and counterfeit cards. basically the same technique used to compromise POS/ATM for skimming magstripe was used for chip&pin ... and as outlined in the cartes2002 presentation, the ease of creating a counterfeit chip&pin from skimmed data was on the same difficulty as creating counterfeit magstripe (using same skimming technology/compromise).

the chip&pin protocol had the business rules moved into the chip ... which became fatal from fraud standpoint ... since a counterfeit chip was now in control of the transaction. POS terminal asks a chip&pin if 1) was correct pin entered, 2) should the transaction be performed offline and 3) is the transaction within the account credit limit.

yes card comes from a counterfeit card always answers "YES" to all three questions (it is not even necessary to skim the "PIN" since regardless of what was entered, a counterfeit yes card always answers "YES").

The presentation by secret service to the ATM integrity task force ... resulting in the comment that "they" manage to spend billions of dollars to prove that chips are less secure than magstripe comes from the "yes" to the 2nd two questions. Countermeasure to counterfeit magstripe is to deactivate the account, and after that, transactions are no longer approved. In the yes card scenario, the counterfeit card always tells the terminal to do an offline transaction *AND* that transaction is always within the credit-limit (deactivating the account had no impact on yes card fraud).

past posta mentioning yes card
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard

it is one thing to say that they deployed something that they didn't know had major vulnerabilities ... but it is another to deploy something that was well understood to have major vulnerabilities ... this starts to smack of the Success Of Failure scenarios (not just limited to beltway bandits and MICC for-profit companies)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#success.of.failure

posts in thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:54:58 -0700
simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
Fair point. But, given that the rest of the world has pretty much gone with chip and PIN (flawed, but better than mag stripe and signature), what would you suggest the USA does? Carry on using the old technology until the rest of the world realises that chip and PIN is hopeless and decides to replace it? You're in for a rather long wait if so...

part of the US 2000 deployment issue was that the us bankers were told that everything was perfect with chip&pin and they spent a huge amount of money for deployment only to find out it was actually worse than magstripe. the speculation was then that it would be quite awhile before it was tried again ... since there was now credibility issues with claims ... "newer" attempts would have to be deployed and actually proven for some time elsewhere. posts mentioning "yes card"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard

disclaimer: behind the scenes in the 2nd half of the 90s, the technical discussion was (static) SDA and (dynamic) DDA authentication. Static had the same vulnerabilities as magstripe (plus the enormous hole that crooks could drive a train through because business rules moved into the chip).

they used an enormous power hungry chip that could barely do SDA with contact power source and still took quite a bit of time. They were claiming that the business couldn't deploy DDA because it would enormously increase chip cost along with further significant increases in power requirements and transaction elapsed time.

what i was asked to do at the time (2nd half of 90s) was design chip&protocol that could do full DDA in the power&time limitations of contactless transit gate, chip have significantly higher integrity than any of their SDA chips (or any DDA chip) *AND* have significantly lower cost than their SDA chip (and enormously cheaper than their DDA candidates).

This was demo'ed in a couple booths at the 1999 BAI (world-wide retail banking show) held in south beach (miami). part of the downside was that it was such high integrity and so cheap ... that the same chip/card could be used for transit, pos financial, internet financial, door-entry, etc. Besides the industry being addicted to making profit off of the fraud related charges ... they are also addicted to branded cards. I showed how branded cards were obsolete artifact from older technology (a person-centric authentication model replacing the institution-centric authentication model). The chip interests were also threatened since it removed nearly all profit from their existing financial industry business models. The major real benefit was to consumers and merchants which have had little effective control over the business.

some old references to 1999 BAI:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#217 AADS/X9.59 demo & standards at BAI (world-wide retail banking) show
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#224 X9.59/AADS announcement at BAI this week
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#229 Digital Signature on SmartCards

past posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:20:45 -0700
"john james" <jj9801@nospam.com> writes:
That doesn't appear to be the case with Apple Pay which is in fact being rolled out as we speak in the US first.

While some majors like Walmart are currently saying that they don't plan to use it, it remains to be seen how long they will be able to hold out on that if consumers start using it in their competitors' stores.


just posted in mailing list discussion ...

The issue was that account number had evolved into dual-use, it is used in dozen of business processes at millions of locations around the world (and needed to be readily available) and it was also something you know authentication (which required that it be kept completely confidential and never divulged). We've often commented that even if the planet was blanketed by miles of information hiding crypto, it still wouldn't have prevented information leakage.

We were brought into the x9a10 financial standard working group that had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for *ALL* retail payments (not simply internet) and were co-author of payment transaction standard (for *ALL* retail payments) that slightly tweaked the current paradigm, separating account number from authentication.

It did nothing directly to address breaches, skimming, evesdropping and/or other exploits ... but since crooks could no longer use account number for fraudulent transactions ... it eliminated the motivation forsuch activity (and necessity of hiding the account number ... which is a major use of SSL in the world today).

Another issue with the account number in the current paradigm is the value of the information to the crooks is the account balance and/or account credit limit ... typically several hundred to possibly tens of thousands. The value of the information to the merchant is the profit from the transaction (possibly a few dollars, and only a few cents to transaction processor). As a result, the attacking crooks can afford to outspend the defending merchants/processors by a factor of 100 times or more.

Merchants have been heavily indoctrinated for decades that the interchange/discount fee they pay on every transaction is heavily prorated based on fraud rate for that type of transaction. Basically internet transactions started out using the highest category fraud rate for fees paid by merchants (there is frequent discussion that financial institutions heavily pad this rate, as a result making significant profit off of "fraud").

In 2000 timeframe several internet "safe" transaction products were pitched to all the major internet merchants with very high acceptance. They had been expecting that such products would possibly result in 90% reduction in the fees that they pay (because of enormous reduction in fraud). However, then the cognitive dissonance sets in when the financial institutions tell them that instead of reducing their fees, they would pay basically a surcharge on top of the highest fee that was already being paid (the highest fraud rate fee plus substantial increase for reducing fraud) ... and the whole effort collapses.

.... snip ....

In the 2000 timeframe there was (at least) three payment related events that happened 1) the illfated POS deployment in the us ... severely damaging the credibility of the associated organizations, 2) the attempted introduction of "safe" internet product wanted by the merchants ... but fee structure made it totally unacceptable, and 3) ill-advised deployment of internet chipcard that gave away free obsolete serial-port based cardreaders (and resulting consumer support issues totally tanked the effort ... resulting in rapidly spreading opinion in the financial industry that chipcards weren't practical in the consumer internet market ... when it was actually a serial-port cardreader problem).

In will be interesting to see what the Apple Pay transaction fee structure is and how merchants react to it.

As i've periodically mentioned that in the mid-90s, the proprietary, consumer, online dialup banking were giving pitches about moving to the internet ... primarily motivated by the enormous customer support costs related to serial-port modem operations (which effectively got offloaded to ISPs). Then within five years, the institutional knowledge about difficulties with consumer serial-port device support had all but disappeared when they did the free give-away of obsolete serial-port (cardreader) devices. posts posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#dialup-banking

NACHA piloted a debit internet product based on the work we did ... but it then ran afaul of both the financial industry pullback from chipcards for internet consumer payments (resulting from the free give-away of the obsolete, serial-port cardreader) ... as well as financial industry decision to turn industry on its head and do fee surcharge for "safe" products (on top of the highest rate paid for fraud).

nacha rfi response, we weren't nacha members so submitted on our behalf (14Sept1998)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/nacharfi.htm
results of the pilot, gone 404 but lives on at the wayback machine (see 23july2001 entry)
http://web.archive.org/web/20070706004855/http://internetcouncil.nacha.org/News/news.html

turns out that they did the trial with their own chip.

past posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 08:51:15 -0700
simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
Interesting. It's common over here to see businesses (especially, but not exclusively, small ones) refuse to accept cards[0] for purchases of less than X (5 or 10 GBP are common), which suggests that they at least find the costs of dealing with cards *higher* than those of dealing with cash...

[0] especially credit cards, which have significantly higher retailer fees than debit cards


one of the big US merchant antitrust cases against the credit card associations (where the merchants prevailed) ... was the credit card associations created a from of debit card transaction called signature debit ... that ran through the credit network and merchants were charged the much higher credit network fees (and didn't run through the debit network that charged the much lower debit network fees, also the credit network and debit networks were operated by different business entities).

as i've mentioned before, over the years, electronic payment transactions have greatly reduced costs compared to manual payment transactions (cash, checks, etc) with electronic having ongoing decreasing costs, but financial infrastructure has kept electronic transaction fees artificially high. origins of some of this was in the early days they had to put in proprietary, value-added-network to interconnect something like 30,000 financial institutions. Advances in technology, consolidation, and outsourcing had nearly eliminated all of this infrastructure ... for instance over 90% of transaction are being processed in six datacenters that have their own interconnects and don't use card association network (however credit card association still bills merchants as if the transactions were still going through their original network). Note merchant POS terminals and associated network are operated by the merchant processors. The original card association network was to interconnect the 30,000 financial institutions to get a transaction from the merchant processing institution to the issuing processing institution and back.

there was study from the middle of last decade that card fees account for over half of convenience store expenses (ahead of labor) ... articles unfortunately no longer on the web ... past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#37 3 of the big 4 - all doing payment systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#26 Debit Cards HACKED now
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#23 Value of an old IBM PS/2 CL57 SX Laptop
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#27 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#38 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007

recnt posts in thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

past posts mentioning signature debit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#22 FraudWatch - Chip&Pin, a new tenner (USD10)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#6 Citibank e-mail looks phishy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#40 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#18 Lack of fraud reporting paths considered harmful
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#25 middle banking in a english muddle
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#44 Realistic dynamics of contactless
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#77 How safe do you feel when using a debit or credit card?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm28.htm#81 not crypto, but fraud detection
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#14 AMD to leave x86 behind?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#16 AMD to leave x86 behind?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#4 When *not* to sign an e-mail message?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#21 Debit Cards HACKED now
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#24 Debit Cards HACKED now
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#48 New attacks on the financial PIN processing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#1 New attacks on the financial PIN processing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#0 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#64 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#18 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#51 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#59 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#15 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#60 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#12 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007o.html#29 EZPass: Yes, Big Brother IS Watching You!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#40 Is the media letting banks off the hook on payment card security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#64 Is the media letting banks off the hook on payment card security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#37 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#58 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#67 Govt demands password to personal computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#68 Govt demands password to personal computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#3 Govt demands password to personal computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#38 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#45 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#48 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#54 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#55 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#59 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#73 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#75 Should online transactions be allowed on credit cards without adequate safeguards?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008n.html#90 Credit Card Security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#64 In your experience which is a superior debit card scheme - PIN based debit or signature debit?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008o.html#70 What happened in security over the last 10 years?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#79 PIN entry on digital signatures + extra token
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#83 Residual Risk Methodology for Single Factor Authentication
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#11 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#0 ATM Skimmers: Watch Out for Electronic Theft Devices
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#23 What is the level of security in payment systems (credit and bank cards) nowadays?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#25 Wrong Instrument for Recurring Payments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009b.html#21 ICSF and VISA/MasterCard?amex reference list
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009f.html#60 Cobol hits 50 and keeps counting
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#62 Solving password problems one at a time, Re: The password-reset paradox
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#78 Kansas City Fed Chief Espouses ACH for Debit Card Processing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#46 64 Cores -- IBM is showing a prototype already
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#50 64 Cores -- IBM is showing a prototype already
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009j.html#50 How can we stop Credit card FRAUD?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009l.html#39 Network Rivalry Sparks 10-Year Quadrupling of PIN-Debit Pricing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009m.html#2 Does this count as 'computer' folklore?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#98 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#11 PC history, was search engine history, was Happy DEC-10 Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#21 Credit card data security: Who's responsible?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#44 Can't PIN be mandated in normal POS machines ? to avoid Losses / Frauds / NPA's ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#45 Swipe this card; shopping could be cheaper
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#7 taking down the machine - z9 series
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#27 taking down the machine - z9 series
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#59 Question: Why Has Debit Grown So Quickly?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#40 The Credit Card Criminals Are Getting Crafty
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#58 Pipeline and Network Security: Protecting a Series of Tubes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#34 System/360--50 years--the future?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#34 The United States is leaking 1TB of data daily to foreign countries

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:52:19 -0700
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> writes:
"Wiring money" isn't the same either. It seems to be the domain of scamming now. I know I once had to have some money wired to me, so that's another thing less likely to have need of because of the rise of ATMs.

i've mentioned before merger with FDC and first financial in the 90s where FDC had to divest moneygram as part of gaining western union from first financial. western union had been somewhat on downturn ... but by middle of last decade ... with the huge spike in illegal workers sending paychecks home, western union had grown to half FDC bottom line ... and was spun off in its an IPO (at one point the president of mexico had invited the CEO of FDC to mexico to be put in jail)

in 1992, a lot of dataprocessing (and misc. other stuff) had been spun off from a large financial institution (Gerstner had been president of the company) as FDC ... in the largest IPO up until that time (15yrs later a large private equity company took FDC private in the largest reverse-IPO up until that time) posts mentioning Gerstner
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#gerstner

recent posts mentioning western union, moneygram, fdc, etc:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#47 McCain: Send Petraeus back to Iraq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#48 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#93 Maximizing shareholder value: The Goal that changed corporate America
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#55 Maximizing shareholder value: The goal that changed corporate America
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#74 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#49 Sale receipt--obligatory?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#73 Remembering Space Shuttle Discovery, 30 years later
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#88 No Internet. No Microsoft Windows. No iPods. This Is What Tech Was Like In 1984

recent posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#54 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:27:21 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
We was brought into the x9a10 financial standard working group that had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for *ALL* retail payments (not simply internet) and were co-author of payment transaction standard (for *ALL* retail payments) that slightly tweaked the current paradigm, separating account number from authentication.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#54 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#55 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

about the time that the card associations were doing the original specification for a POS payment solution (heavily focused on lost/stolen physical card) ... they were also doing a completely different & unrelated specification for internet payments ... which was also about the same time x9a10 financial standards working group were doing a standard for *ALL* retail payments (including both POS and internet)

part of the analysis of their internet payment specification was it was enormously computational intensive and had enormous payload ... while prividing very little additional reduction in possibly exploits (compared to SSL electronic commerce).

The internet payment specification computation was on the order of 100 times more than standard ISO8583 and the payload size was 100 times or more larger than standard ISO8583 packet (with little or no additional benefit). The humongous increase in computation and packet size resulted in internet gateways doing all the processing and then sticking a bit into standard iso8583 packet claiming that all operations had been performed correctly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8583

The card associations then specified a discount/lower fee for packets carrying that bit. This created an enormous incentive for operations to add this bit to other ISO8583 packets ... even when no such processing had been performed. After it had been deployed a couple years, one of the card assocation business executives gave a presentation about the percent of packets coming through with the bit set where they could prove that no such processing had been performed (however, the processing and payload was so humongous for little additional reduction, it never really caught on). ... misc past posts mentioning its payload bloat
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#bloat

disclaimer: part of the requirements placed on x9a10 working group was not only a standard for *ALL* retail payments ... but it was also light-weight enough to provide end-to-end integrity (both the card association specifications for POS and internet were relying on external processing that then set bit in ISO8583 packet claiming that such processing had been performed correctly ... w/o actually providing any end-to-end integrity, aka any integrity information was stripped away and processed at boundaries of the financial network, and some processors were taking advantage of the lack of end-to-end integrity).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#x959

one speculation about the lack of end-to-end integrity in card association specifications is that it may be done to help continue justifying existance of their proprietary networks.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:07:31 -0700
On 2014-09-30, hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
That applies only to high volume businesses where faster transactions would mean the saving of establishing a second check out aisle.

In low volume establishments, and, where many customers are paying cash, the incremental savings don't occur in way to create any substantive savings.

Some toll road facilities have gone cashless. All motorists must have the electronic system or they are billed for the toll--along with a significant service charge. The savings from complete elimination of toll collectors--and associated support facilities--can be significant.

The authorities do not mention how many of such bills go uncollected, but some news reports suggest that the amount could be considerable.

There has been negative publicity from motorists who don't drive very often and find themselve stuck with a high bill due to the service charges. Some motorists--correcting citing privacy concerns*--do not want a toll transponder in their car.


we flew to family reunion this summer and were driving a rental car. we turned onto bridge and didn't realize that it had changed from free to automated "toll" (with no toll booths) ... so never realized it was toll. later, the toll operator sent bill to rental car company (license plate reader), who then turns it over to another company that puts a charge on our card (used for the rental car) with a 1000% surcharge. i disputed the charge since i didn't recognize the company, its home address, the description of the company, the amount, or anything to do with the transaction.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:36:11 -0700
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
Being out of town, I encountered a five dollar charge for withdrawing cash, plus a limit of $200. Ouch!

ATM charges got so lucrative that 3rd party operators got into the business ... placing them at all sort of locations.

there is periodic news items about public being on the lookout for skimmers attached to such ATM machines (used by crooks to get information for creating counterfeit cards). posts mentioning harvesting information for counterfeit cards and fraudulent transactions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#harvest

however there have also been cases of criminal organizations acquiring ATM machine builders ... and installing the data collection inside the machine at time of manufacturing ... these usually don't make the press, since the industry doesn't actually want to alarm the public with things that they have no control over and might inhibit the use of such devices (loose trust in the infrastructure). Not limited to ATM, but also POS terminals, at one point there was claim that 1/3rd of POS terminals sold during some period in the EU were coming from such operations (they were underselling the competition)

this is also along the lines of there being proportional more news coverage of armed robber getting a couple hundred dollars ... than various white collar crime involving billions (or in some cases trillions) ... for instance recent posts mentioning too big to fail (too big to prosecute, too big to jail)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail

money laundering for drug cartels and terrorists
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering

posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#54 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#55 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#56 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#57 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:53:32 -0700
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
I have a card reader for online banking that is self contained (it looks like a cheap calculator) you put the card in, select a function, key in your PIN, key in a challenge number from the online banking form and the type the response displayed on the reader into the form. I suspect there would be nasty security issues with letting this functionality out to merchants unless it was done like 3DSecure with the bank handling the authentication and sending an OK by a back channel to the merchant.

old references about visiting company that makes the devices (half-way between Amsterdam & Brussels)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#57 Q: Internet banking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#55 I-net banking security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#3 Bank security question (newbie question)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#8 Bank security question (newbie question)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#9 Bank security question (newbie question)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#10 Secure web logins w random passwords
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#43 Windows Monitor or CUSP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#67 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#2 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#41 Special characters for Passwords

and then the CEO driving us down to Brussels for EU FINREAD standards meeting.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#finread

FINREAD standard was developed in the EU during the 2nd half of the 90s as countermeasure to long list of vulnerabilities involving compromised PC. It was ("hardened") cardreader with its own display and pinpad. A compromised PC wouldn't be able to display one transaction and execute another ... or sniff the keyboard pin-entry and then perform stealth fraudulent transactions w/o the user's knowledge.

It was part of the collaterial damage with the financial industry pullback from card-based infrastructure (for consumer internet) as result of the disastrous deployment of obsolete serial-port cardreader effort.

recent mention of the serial-port fiasco
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#32 The dark side of digital banking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#44 The dark side of digital banking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#64 How the IETF plans to protect the web from NSA snooping
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#8 Is cybersecurity the next banking crisis in the making?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#17 Online Debit, Credit Fraud Will Soon Get Much Worse
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#17 Is it time for a revolution to replace TLS?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#43 Oil Co. Wins $350,000 Cyberheist Settlement
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#59 A computer at home?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#60 A computer at home?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#62 A computer at home?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#21 The SDS 92, its place in history?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#22 The SDS 92, its place in history?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 11:53:06 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
and then the CEO driving us down to Brussels for EU FINREAD standards meeting.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#finread

FINREAD standard was developed in the EU during the 2nd half of the 90s as countermeasure to long list of vulnerabilities involving compromised PC. It was ("hardened") cardreader with its own display and pinpad. A compromised PC wouldn't be able to display one transaction and execute another ... or sniff the keyboard pin-entry and then perform stealth fraudulent transactions w/o the user's knowledge.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#59 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

trivia ... one of the issues with FINREAD was that while it closed a significant number of vulnerabilities ... there was no way that an authorizing institution could tell that a FINREAD device was actually used for transactions ... and therefor could do (parameterised) risk assessment for the transactions.

one of the things in the x9a10 transaction standard was provision for "co-authentication" ... the transaction could be authenticated by the users smartcard (and carefully defined so it could flow for end-to-end integrity within the ISO8583 payload constraints) ... but could also have additional authentication information. In the FINREAD case, the standard was adapted to allow a tamper-evident embedded chip in FINREAD to also co-authenticate the transaction ... providing authorizing institution with higher level of confidence about the environmental conditions where the transaction was taken place.

we've had metaphor comparison with the current paradigm of "naked payments" (analogy to shooving people out of airlock in open space w/o space suit) ... which is at the root of enormous amount of fraud that swirls around the current payment industry. the enormous hardening of transaction (done with enormously lightweight technology) providing end-to-end integrity goes away to eliminating much of existing fraud.

The downside is that there is a lot of vested interests in providing proprietary, valued-added networks that provide partial protection for "naked payments" (although leaving enormous security gaps in the infrastructure). misc. past references to the existing paradigm "naked payments" metaphor (x9a10 transaction standard metaphor was providing enormously lightweight, enormously secure, end-to-end integrity "space suit")
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

zOS 1.13 – CPU latent demand

From: lynn@GARLIC.COM (Anne & Lynn Wheeler)
Subject: Re: zOS 1.13 – CPU latent demand
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 1 Oct 2014 12:16:22 -0700
gibney@WSU.EDU (Gibney, Dave) writes:
In my opinion, back in the day, there as a benefit of going to fewer/faster engines. But, with a deep drop off a precipice when fewer reached one.

Never again will I willingly agree to be on a single CPU machine.


in the past, multiple engines have been beneficial

1) constraining ill-performing tasks, partially compensating for poor resource management software.

2) increasing importance of cache hit ratios ... careful control of task switching can significantly improve cache hit ratios and aggregate throughput. multiple engines can also help poor resource management software minimizing task switches resulting in having to change cache contents each time.

large mainframes use to have large penalty going from one processor to two processor (and enormous penalty going to four processors). two processor 370 hardware used to be only 1.8 times single processor (clocks slowed down to handle cross-cache invalidation) and throughput typically rated at 1.3-1.5 times single processor (because of enormous operating system multiprocessor overhead).

in the mid-70s, i managed to do some slight of hand where got nearly 2.0 times throughput with two processors (over one processor), it was some superfast operating system pathlength for management of two processors along with careful task switch management ... that improved cache hit ratio improving throughput compensating for the 20% hardware slowdown (part of it was logically a little like SAPs where I/O interrupt handling could be partially batched on same processor, improving interrupt handling throughput because of cache affinity of the interrupt handler and improving cache hit ratio of applications on the other processor with fewer interrupts).

past posts mentioning smp (&/or compare-and-swap)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2014 16:00:31 -0700
Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
The bridge company should have conspicuous notices in place warning people about the tolls before it's too late to turn aside or turn around, and more detailed notices about what the tolls are and how they can be paid. Otherwise, it isn't a toll, it's robbery. Or something.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#57 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

i had taken the bridge periodically in the past ... before it became toll ... getting on the last onramp ... they had sign saying that it was going to become a toll bridge at future date ... and i didn't bother to read any further. never saw a toll booth or the signs that it was electronic only. i assume that if i had gotten on earlier, i would have seen signs saying it was electronic only and signs indicating that it was a toll road (as opposed to signs saying it was going to become toll road/bridge at a date ... that apparently had already passed) ... and given a chance to exit at the interchange where i entered.

the interesting is the 1000% surcharge by the company used for placing toll transaction on credit card (same credit card as used to rent the car) ... presumably it would have been too simple for the rental car company to directly place toll on the credit card itself (you get no record but the name of the company and the amount shows on the statment).

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2014 10:19:08 -0700
simon@twoplaces.co.uk (Simon Turner) writes:
If it actually costs *more* in bank charges to get cash into your account than a same-value card payment (after you've paid both card processor *and* bank credit charges), then it's clearly a different matter.

recent post that card fees now represent over half expenses for convienence stores (greater than labor)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#57 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

... electronic processing enormously drop costs to banks ... compared to manual transactions ... but there wasn't corresponding drop in fees ... difference going into banks bottom line. that has partly led the industry to be attractive target for competition ... the enormously growing gap between what is being charged and the actual costs (plenty of opportunity for competition to undercut banks fees ... and still make enormous profit). the result is that banks resorting to lobbying congress (like GLBA) and other measures to protect their position and keep out competition. with lack of competition, the institutions have great deal of latitutde to set fee structures however they want.

part of the public spin on justification for the enormous fees ... even with very low cost ... is the prospect of fraud ... and the trust that public has in financial institutions in handling fraud. this has led to 1) accounts that financial institutions make enormous profit using spectre of fraud as excuse and 2) trying to carefully manage their trust image ... folklore about head of too big to fail eliminating the institution's CSO ... saying that fraud was much more cost effectively handled through press/public relations office. It also had supposedly outsourced much of its Y2K remediation to the lowest bidder ... which turned out to be a front for a criminal organization. They later found code for stealth fraudulent transactions embedded in the Y2K fixes ... like large wire transfer to offshore accounts that didn't show up in log records (but as it turns out fraud by the too big to fail enormously dwarfs those fraud examples).

I've posted before about very early in the century, reviewing a periodic industry publication that gave the averages of large number of different operational costs for top regional banks compared to the top national banks (on their way to becoming too big to fail). Turns out that the top regional banks had better fee structures and were more profitable (ROI) than the top national banks. The conjecture was that the only justification for the national banks was that top executive compensation was proportional to size of the institution (not its operational efficiency). There was enormous personal motivation for top executives to grow their institutional size (even though it was counter to interests for the rest of society).

one of the issues was lots of industry electronic processing has been outsourced to a few, very large operations (accounting for previously mentioned 90% of card transactions processed by six datacenters) ... so there is little difference in the costs for the smallest financial institution and the very largest.

other conjecture about the too big to fail being less efficient than the top regional banks were 1) too big to fail executives focused on their personal compensation, 2) too big to fail too large to efficiently operate, 3) regional banks could better focus on important issues.

posts mentioning too big to fail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
posts mentioning too big to fail laundering money for drug cartelss and terrorists
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering

recent articles

Bank CEOs are the New Drug Lords
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-29/bank-ceos-are-new-drug-lords
William R. Black on Prosecuting Criminal Banker CEOs: Obama and Holder Don't Even Care Enough to Fake It
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/09/william-r-black-prosecuting-criminal-banker-ceos-obama-holder-dont-even-care-enough-fake.html

so is this a carefully spun article sponsored by the financial industry (attempt at obfuscation and misdirection):

Zero Hedge: Wall Street's daily dose of doom and gloom
http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/25/investing/zero-hedge-wall-street-blog-finance/index.html

past posts mentioning periodic industry publication giving operational costs (which turned out to show regional institutions more efficient than too big to fail)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#51 The 2010 Census
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#52 Our Pecora Moment
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#16 Fake debate: The Senate will not vote on big banks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#21 Fake debate: The Senate will not vote on big banks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#43 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#7 What banking is. (Essential for predicting the end of finance as we know it.)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#82 What is your most memorable Mainframe security bug, breach or lesson learned?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#22 Slouching toward Weimar
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#18 Selectric Typewriter--50th Anniversary
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#39 Kabuki Theater 1603-1629
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#67 computer bootlaces
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011o.html#83 The banking sector grew seven times faster than gross domestic product since the beginning of the financial crisis and Too-Big-to-Fail: Banks Get Bigger After Dodd-Frank
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#25 You may ask yourself, well, how did I get here?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#92 The PC industry is heading for collapse
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#1 The Dallas Fed Is Calling For The Immediate Breakup Of Large Banks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#77 Just for a laugh... How to spot an old IBMer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#9 JPM LOSES $2 BILLION USD!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#84 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#62 Any cool anecdotes IBM 40yrs of VM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#99 PDP-10 system calls, was 1132 printer history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#10 OT: Tax breaks to Oracle debated
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012p.html#33 Historians: The Paper Trail through History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#44 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#51 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#54 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#48 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#2 IBM Relevancy in the IT World

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

a couple old ibm picutres

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: a couple old ibm picutres
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2014 10:33:43 -0700
The NSA and Me
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/02/the-nsa-and-me/

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:08:08 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
there was large US rollout of the chip"smart" credit cards in 2000 ... however they actually made fraud worse .... before the rollout I tried to explain to them the problem ... but they were so myopicly focused on something else, they couldn't understand what i was saying.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

predating the large rollout in the US in 2000, one of the first rollouts was done by IBM & UK safeways in 1997 (getting close to 20yrs ago, and nearly a decade before most people consider there was a UK rollout). past posts referencing the 1997 rollout
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#16 Fraudwatch - Chip&PIN one-sided story, banks and deception and liability shifts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#43 THIS WEEKEND: VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL 5.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#33 Google Architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#64 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#26 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#84 CARD AUTHENTICATION TECHNOLOGY - Embedded keypad on Card - Is this the future
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#3 The Credit Card Criminals Are Getting Crafty
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#7 XML-based formats vs. ISO8583

ohter posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#54 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#55 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#56 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#57 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#58 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#59 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#60 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#62 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#63 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 13:02:18 -0700
"john james" <jj9801@nospam.com> writes:
And are doing that because the difference between what they pay in interest on deposits and what they charge in interest on mortgages is lower than it used to be. Wafer thin with some operations. The one I get the best interest rate on deposits with pays me 4.17% and charges 4.62% on mortgages.

TARP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program

was supposedly to buy the toxic assets of the too big to fail,
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail

however only $700B was allocated which was barely drop in the bucket, end of 2008 just the four largest too big to fail were carrying $5.2T in toxic assets
Bank's Hidden Junk Menaces $1 Trillion Purge
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=akv_p6LBNIdw&refer=home

"off book/balance" ...

Miracle Man (Who Invented Off-Balance-Sheet Financial Engineering that's still Sinking Companies Today)
http://wolfstreet.com/2014/09/28/miracle-man-who-invented-off-balance-sheet-financial-engineering-thats-still-sinking-companies-today/

... that summer/fall 2008 a few tens of billions in toxic assets had gone for 22cents on the dollar. if the assets had been brought back on book at market value (or purchased for market value), the institutions would have been declared insolvent and had to be liquidated.

so to keept them in business, the FED Reserve behind the scenes 1) allowed them to keep the toxic assets off-book, 2) gave banking charters to several too big to fail investment banks, 3) for too big to fail with banking charters, tens of trillions in nearly free "loans" (which they could then use to buy treasuries and make huge profits on the spread), and 4) started buying the toxic assets at 98cents on the dollar.

At one point Bernanke made the comment that he had anticipated that the banks would use the free money to loan to mainstreet (stimlating the economy) ... but they didn't and he had no way of forcing them to loan to main street (instead of buying treasuries). Note something similar had happened after the crash of '29 ... and Bernanke has been touted as a great depression expert (supposedly part of selecting him for the position) ... so he should have never really anticipated that the too big to fail would lend to mainstreet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#bernanke

Why would they bother to pay interest on deposits when they can get nearly unlimited funds for free from federal reserve.

I've also commented before that instead of FED providing free money to the too big to fail, so they could make enormous profits buying treasuries (on the spread), the FED could buy treasuries directly for zero percent interest and fund the federal debt at zero cost.

There was 2010 CBO report that the baseline budget had all federal debt retired by 2010 ... but after congress allowed the fiscal responsibility act to expire in 2002, tax revenue was cut by $6T and spending was increased by $6T for a $12T budget gap
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#fiscal.responsibilty.act

first major such legislation was early 2003, with Medicare Part-D which was described as enormous gift to drug industry and a $40T long-term unfunded mandate ... CBS 60mins had segment that the 18 majority party congressmen and staffers that orchestrated the bill through, resigned after the bill passes and were on durg industry payroll
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#medicare.part-d

It was after such congressional efforts that in the middle of last decade that comptroller general started including in speeches that nobody in congress was capable of middle school arithmetic for what they were doing to the budget
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#comptroller.general

I've mentioned before that jan2009, I was asked to HTML'ise the (30s senate) Pecora hearings (that resulted in lots of jail time) ... with lots of internal cross-links and URLs between what happend then and what happened this time ... comments about some anticipation that the new congress would have appetite to do somehting. I work on it for awhile and then got a call that it wouldn't be needed after all ... references to enormous piles of wallstreet money totally blanketing capital hill.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#Pecora&/orGlass-Steagall

ref to economic mess last decade was 70 times larger than the S&L crisis where there were 30,000 criminal referrals and 1000 jail terms ... but this time there has neither been criminal referrals nor jail time.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#30 Qualitative Easing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#84 Support Senator Warren's Postal Banking Proposal
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#10 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#27 How Comp-Sci went from passing fad to must have major
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#77 Settlements and Fines from TBTF Institutions Since the Crisi

and of course, to keep them in business, they are also not being shutdown and presecuted for a large number of other criminal activities ... money laundering for the drug cartelss and terrorists
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering
criminal manipulating funds and exchanges like libor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#libor

past posts in thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#42 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#43 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#44 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#45 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#46 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#47 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#49 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#50 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#51 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#52 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#53 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#54 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#55 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#56 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#57 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#58 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#59 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#60 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#62 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#63 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#65 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 19:19:30 -0700
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#66 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

BillMoyers doing update tonight
http://billmoyers.com/

Full Show: Too Big to Jail?
http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-big-jail/

note that there was more than $27T done during the period
Evil Wall Street Exports Boomed With 'Fools' Born to Buy Debt
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&refer=home&sid=a0jln3.CSS6c

too big to fail, too big to prosecute, and too big to jail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail

misc. recent posts mentioning Bill Black
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#6 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#7 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#59 GAO and Wall Street Journal Whitewash Huge Criminal Bank Frauds
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#60 GAO and Wall Street Journal Whitewash Huge Criminal Bank Frauds
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#0 Tim Geithner Redux - Here's the what American Bankers Association has to say on the subject
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#58 Credit Suisse, BNP Paribas at Risk of Criminal Charges Over Taxes, Business With Banned Nations
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#19 Instead of focusing on big fines, law enforcement should seek long prison terms for the responsible executives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#45 Sale receipt--obligatory?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#52 Bill Black on Bank Fraud: The Wall Street Journal's Choleric Rant about Cholera and Bank Fraud Epidemics

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2014 09:55:16 -0700
Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
On one hand checks are easier to deposit and you don't get a visit from the Infernal Revenue Service, for a sequence of large cash deposits. Can be explained, of course, but who wants to attract attention? I rather imagine owning an apartment building has been used more than once to launder underground cash.

modulo drug cartels and terrorists using too big to fail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
and
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 13:51:13 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
BillMoyers doing update tonight
http://billmoyers.com/

Full Show: Too Big to Jail?
http://billmoyers.com/episode/full-show-big-jail/


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#67 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

one of things black talked about was testifying in mortgage fraud cases in cal. where the court found in favor of the borrowers and agaisnt the lenders.

Bill Black Discusses Too Big to Jail on Bill Moyers
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/10/bill-black-discusses-too-big-to-jail-on-bill-moyers.html

there have been past articles about the industry managed to convince the FBI that the definition of "mortgage fraud" only involved borrowers (and there was no definition of "mortgage fraud" with respect to lender activity) ... recent reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#64 Wells Fargo made up on-demand foreclosure papers plan: court filing charges

i've mentioned before getting threat from some investment bankers because we were criticizing technology involved in some upcoming internet IPOs ... we went to some LEOs. One of the FBI commented that various of the investment bankers involved in "junk bonds" during S&L crisis walked away untouched ... and were then involved in the internet IPO bubble and were predicted to get into mortgages (after the internet bubble bursts). a couple recent refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#61 Association Of Certified Fraud Examiners Release 2014 Report On Fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#94 Why Financialization Has Run Amok

also references to the "junk bond" industry trying to improve its image in the early 90s, change name to "high yield bonds" and calling themselves "private equity"
http:://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#private.equity

another issue was that other industries observed the enormous profit in financial services ... especially as things became increasingly computerized. in some cases it just involved adding group that provided financial services (like GE) which then also got involved in offering dodgy subprime loans, packaging them up, paying rating agencies for triple-A rating and selling them off to gullible buyers ... like large institutional retirement and sovereign funds that were restricted to only dealing in "safe" investments ... major reason why over $27T done last decade
Evil Wall Street Exports Boomed With 'Fools' Born to Buy Debt
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&refer=home&sid=a0jln3.CSS6c
in triple-A rated toxic CDOs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#toxic.cdo

Auto got into offering computerized (subprime) auto loans and redoing the books that nearly all of the profit comes off of the loan and the manufacturing is nearly break-even or loss ... which also provides leverage in dealing with labor in the manufacturing segment. The airline industry did something similar shifting nearly all the profit to (computerized) ticket operations (parent company can make significant overall profit from ticket operations that more than offsets losses in the actual airline operation).

misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#62 Why Is Finance So Big?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#77 Interesting News Article
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#86 Should the IBM approach be given a chance to fix the health care system?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#33 Management Secrets From Inside GE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#50 IBM Furloughs U.S. Hardware Employees to Reduce Costs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013k.html#51 What Makes a Tax System Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#37 Sale receipt--obligatory?

the dodgy triple-A rated was another way of raiding the large retirement funds along with other means. article on heist of the ibm retirement plan
http://www.ibmemployee.com/RetirementHeist.shtml
posts mentioning Gerstner
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#gerstner

recent posts mentioning above
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#45 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#48 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#84 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#37 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#48 IBM Dumps Its Server Business On Lenovo For $2.3B
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#50 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#57 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#79 Shocking news: Execs do what they're paid to do
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#93 Maximizing shareholder value: The Goal that changed corporate America
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#101 Defense Department Needs to Act Like IBM to Save Itself
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#12 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#24 IBM sells Intel server business, company is doomed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#54 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#55 Maximizing shareholder value: The goal that changed corporate America
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#91 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#10 Can the mainframe remain relevant in the cloud and mobile era?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#75 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#32 upcoming TV show, "Halt & Catch Fire"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#47 Barbarians at the Gate
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#48 IBM hopes new chip can turn the tables on Intel
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#54 IBM Sales Fall Again, Pressuring Rometty's Profit Goal
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#111 The Decline and Fall of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#89 IBM, Lenovo server deal potentially scuppered over security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#33 Power grid groans, blackouts roll through L.A. area as heat wave nears peak

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: LA Times commentary:  roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2014 19:51:09 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
first major such legislation was early 2003, with Medicare Part which was described as enormous gift to drug industry and a $40T long-term unfunded mandate ... CBS 60mins had segment that the 18 majority party congressmen and staffers that orchestrated the bill through, resigned after the bill passes and were on durg industry payroll
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#medicare.part-d


re: http//www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#66 LA Times commentary: roll out "smart" credit cards to deter fraud

cbs 60mins just now, doing (update) segment on the high-cost of medicine in the us ... several references to (congress prohibiting) medicare not allowed to negotiate prices (as a result the the price of the drug can be four times that of identical drugs in other countries).

in the earlier on 60min segment on medicare part-d, the 18 from the majority party adds a one sentence in the bill at the last hour and prevents CBO from distributing report of the effect of the addition (or even informing the rest of congress about the change) ... this one liner preculdes medicare from negotiating prices and/or competitive bidding. 60mins showed side-by-side, identical drugs from medicare and VA (which allows competitive bidding) ... the medicare drugs were three times the cost of the same drug from VA.

this segment didn't make any reference to the earlier segment (other than a couple periodic references that medicare is prohibted from negotiating prices)
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-cost-of-cancer-drugs/

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 09:37:48 -0700
hancock4 writes:
The IBM histories touch on the role of pure research vs. R&D as appropriate for the company. Over time, there were varying attitudes toward "Research", such as what its definition was, and its role to the company. Management had various expectations, some of which were contradictory. Researchers had their own expectations.

development was expected something like 12-36months out, advanced-technology something like 36months-72months out, research out past adtech

that changed after the failure of Future System
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

in the mad rush to get stuff back into the 370 product pipelines (which had been shutdown during the FS period), most of advanced technology groups were pulled into development ... and adtech pretty much disappears.

I've commented attending adtech conference spring of '77 where 801 group presented risc and we presented 16-way multiprocessor 370. There had been regular adtech conference ... but the next one wasn't until the one i put on spring 1982 ... old reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#22
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4a

I've mentioned before the 16-way was going great guns ... we even managed to co-op some of the 3033 engineers to work on it in their spare time (much more interesting than remapping 168 to 20% faster chips) ... then somebody tells the head of POK that it might be decades before the POK favorite son operating system had support for 16-way ... at which point several of us are invited to never visit POK again.

note that the mad rush kicked off q&d development of 303x in parallel with development 3081 (& mvs/xa) ... which was 7-8yrs later (it was development, but time-scale was more along the lines of adtech & research). when the 3033 was out the door, that group switches to 3090 ... which is also 6-7yrs. some discussed here:
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm

3090 only goes up to six-way (3090-600)
https://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP3090.html
http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1985/09/02/66396/index.htm

then in 87, mendolbrot resigns over research (also) eliminated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benoit_Mandelbrot

other ibm history presentation at share
https://share.confex.com/share/116/webprogram/Handout/Session9022/SHARE%20116%20Session%209022.pdf

old post about es/9000-982 w/8procs 1993, 9672 w/12procs 1999, z900 w/16 procs dec2000
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#10

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

*uix web security

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: *uix web security
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 09:53:12 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
At least someone is thinking about this. Look at what happened to the Iranian nuclear program because of a virus. We're standing on the edge of disaster unless precautions are taken soon.

Would anyone use microsoft software for mission-critical applications? (open-source or not, it would seem like there are many better choices)


study jim did at tandem in early 80s, was that general purpose hardware was becoming so reliable ... that service outages had shifted to people mistakes and environmental issues (floods, earthquakes, power outages, etc)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/grayft84.pdf

at 1991 acm sigops (asilomar), jim gray and i get into something of dustup whether commodity hardware can be used for business-critical applications. recent ref.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#11 Can the mainframe remain relevant in the cloud and mobile era?

we were doing ha/cmp with unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

but he was still with DEC at the time (pushing vax/cluster), then with DEC dbms selloff, he goes on sabatical ... and then comes back running m'soft sanfran research. he then gets to get up on stage with ceo of m'soft, pushing NT clusters for business critical applications.

i've mentioned later (before he disappears), he cons me into interviewing for chief security architect in redmond ... the interview drags on for a couple weeks ... but we could never come to agreement. past refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#60 The 25 Most Dangerous Programming Errors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#28 Computer virus strikes US Marshals, FBI affected
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#22 My Vintage Dream PC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#15 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#40 The Great Cyberheist
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#56 Microsoft Wants 'Sick' PCs Banned From The Internet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#21 Closure in Disappearance of Computer Scientist
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012h.html#74 Interesting News Article
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#93 Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#14 The growing openness of an organization's infrastructure has greatly impacted security landscape
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013i.html#77 Insane Insider Threat Program in Context of Morally and Mentally Bankrupt US Intelligence System
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#44 the suckage of MS-DOS, was Re: 'Free Unix!

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2014 16:22:54 -0700
hancock4 writes:
FS failed because its _specific_ technology was too advanced for the hardware available in its day, and because it was extremely sophisticated, requiring a very substantial development effort. With S/360, the new advances in technology had at least some sort of reasonable base to grow from, while FS was too new.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#71 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
and
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

lots of FS were people blue skying ... there were whole sections that lacked any concrete content.

part of the object oriented stuff put lots of stuff into the microcode, somebody could could a machine "ADD" instruction ... and the hardware might have to do five storage accesses per operand to resolve the contents. this partially accounts for the performance evaluation done by the IBM houston scientific center ... that if a FS machine was built out of the fastest available technology then available 370/195 ... 370/195 applications ran on that FS machine would have throughput of 370/145 ... approx. factor of 30 times slow-down.

as mentioned periodically this wasn't a particular issue in the s/38 market place.

FS also somewhat took TSS/360 one-level-store ... straight over ... map a file into an address space and then page fault to fetch from disk to storage. this precluded enormous amounts of i/o overlap optimization done in 360 applications ... buffers larger than 4k, multiple asynchronous buffers with read-ahead and write-behind ... so application can overlap execution with i/o.

i've mentioned periodically i saw this with tss/360 at the univ. when I was playing with CP67. We did fortran edit, compile, execute sythentic script with simulated users for both tss/360 and cp67/cms. cp67/cms had better throughput and response for 35 simulated users than tss/360 did with four simulated users (on the same hardware) ... and this was before I had done an enormous amount of performance enhancements to cp67. part of presentation i made at fall '68 share meeting on some of the performance enhancements i had done over the summer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#18

also as previously mentioned, I continued to work on 360/370 during the FS period and periodically ridicule the FS activity ... includying what i already had running was significantly better than what they were blue skying about. Part of this was I had done a paged mapped filesystem for FS ... and felt I had learned quite a bit from TSS/360 on how not to do the implementation ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 09:35:30 -0700
Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:
That great single store stuff is in AS/400. You don't see large mainframe shops migrating to AS/400. At least I've never heard it.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#71 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#73 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

the FS single level store stuff wasn't so much a paradigm issue, it was a implementation serialized blocking issue .... single blocking page fault at a time eliminated doing all sorts of I/O optimizations ... enormously impacting throughput. os/360 move to virtual memory 370 was predicated on very low page fault rates and preserving the 360 i/o (and i/o asynchronous/overlap throughput) paradigm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

and as referenced, instructions become horrible complex and heavy weight ... requiring large number of storage references to resolve each operand. i've periodically commented that a lot of what John put into 801/risc was to go to the opposite complexity that happened in FS (instructions were highly optimized for hardware efficiency and lots of complexity moved out of hardware and back into compiler). past posts mentioning, 801, risc, romp, iliad, rios, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

i've made analogy with serialized instruction ... cache miss latency to memory ... measured in number of processor cycles ... is comparable to 60s disk i/o latency (measured in 60s processor cycles). high throughput 360 applications had a lot of asynchronous i/o overlap to achieve throughput. recent claim that significant part of mainframe processor throughput increase from z10 to z196 was introduction of out-of-order (non-strictly serialized) execution i.e. be able to execute other instructions while an instruction is stalled waiting for memory access (also z196 to ec12 is claimed to be further refinements in out-of-order and memory latency masking features).

i've periodically mentioned Fibre channel in connection with IBM's FICON channel i/o protocol layer built on top of fibre channel ... the half-duplex channel protocol was less of total bottleneck in 360 time-frame. the early work on fibre channel specifically addressed that end-to-end latency was becoming increasing bottleneck ... and fibre channel was designed to run outbound and inbound concurrently and asynchronous and to minimize the amount of serialized end-to-end protocol chatter per operation. I've referenced that peak i/o z196 benchmark used 104 FICON to achieve 2M IOPS throughput (FICON protocol layer on top of fibre channel) ... at the same time there was announce of fibre channel for e5-2600 claiming over 1M IOPS (two such fibre channel having higher native I/O throughput than 104 FICON ... layered on top of 104 fibre channel).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#ficon

recent fibre channel news
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2690805/data-center/32gfc-long-live-fibre-channel.html

aggregate throughput increasingly impacted by any protocol features that involve serialized, end-to-end latency.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 10:10:21 -0700
hancock4 writes:
From my brief sojourn on the AS/400, it seemed the organization was not very efficient. There was no object code--at least that an application programmer could see--but only rather something called "Licensed Internal Code". I would guess that LIC would need another layer to let it execute on whatever hardware was actually being used, and that in itself seems very inefficient.

I don't believe AS/400 application programmers had the option to program in an assembly language. They had to use the higher level languges, IIRC, RPG IV and COBOL; with RPG being the most popular.

I would've thought a small machine would have a simplified job control structure, but the AS/400 used something called "CL", and it was so complext that the manual for that took up two volumes. It was a lot more complex than MVS JCL.

The AS/400 programmer interface was automated in the sense that one didn't code compile JCL, but rather selected from options on the screen. The AS/400 screens made liberal use of all 24 PF keys. In addition, they had menus where one entered the number of a desired option (sometimes this was confusing with the PF keys).

The AS/400 did have one excellent on-line utility that I wish IBM would put out on its Z series: it was a combined copy/sort/count/accumulate/reformat and was very easy to use. It basically was an automated tabulating machine with easy field selection. (Sort of what Excel does now).

It has been a number of years since my AS/400 experience.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#71 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#73 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#74 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

folklore is that group from FS retreated to Rochester and did s/38
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

early target for 801/risc was as microcode engine simulating other architectures (programmers not having direct access) ... low/mid range 370s, original as/400 as well as controllers and other embedded processors. 801/risc Iliad architecture/chips had additional features for such emulation.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

for various reaons all of those efforts floundered and reverting to traditional CISC chips for emulation (some number of engineers then leaving, showing up on risc efforts at other vendors) ... including the original AS/400. AS/400 was combined follow-on for s/34, s/36 and s/38 ... and dropped some s/38 features. during the 90s, as/400 did move off CISC to 801/risc (power/pc)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_System_i

from above:
The IBM System i, then known as the AS/400, was the continuation of the System/38 database machine architecture (announced by IBM in October 1978 and delivered in August 1979). The AS/400 removed capability-based addressing.[3] The AS/400 added source compatibility with the System/36 combining the two primary computers manufactured by the IBM Rochester plant. The System/36 was IBM's most successful mini-computer but the architecture had reached its limit. The first AS/400 systems (known by the development code names Silverlake and Olympic) were delivered in 1988 under the tag line "Best of Both Worlds" and the product line has been refreshed continually since then.

... snip ...

ROMP was to be a different kind of closed system ... joint research/OPD chip targeted as follow-on for displaywriter. when that was canceled, they retargeted it to the unix workstation market ... but had to add hardware features for unix paradigm ... like hardware protection for kernel/application execution mode (requiring kernel calls for privileged operations that validating permissions, etc).

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

HP splits, again

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: HP splits, again.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 12:34:38 -0700
EDS was started by former IBM salesman ... folklore at Boeing in the late 60s ... he was on the Boeing account when 360 was announced at Boeing walked in with an order that made him the highest paid IBMer that year (on straight commission; Boeing claimed that he knew very little about 360 at the time, they just handed him the order). This supposedly led to IBM converting from straight sales commission to sales quota the next year ... given sales objective for the year ... and compenstation based on ratio of actual sales to quota. Boeing gave him additional orders and he made annual quota by end of Jan. ... at which time they "adjusted" his quota. This contributed to him leaving IBM and starting EDS.

I've mentioned 1990 C4 taskforce by the us auto industry looking to remake themselves to be competitive with foreign imports (supposedly decade earlier import quotas were to reduce competition and give them enormous profits to completely remake themselves ... but they pocketed the money and kept business as usual). Major part of C4 taskforce was to heavily leverage dataprocessing to make the business significantly more efficient ... and as part of that they invited reps from various IT vendors to participate (however, recent events show that C4 didn't work either, just continued business as usual) misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#auto.c4.taskforce

supposedly in line with that paradigm, GM buys EDS (1984) ... supposedly to leverage their mainframe dataprocessing expertise to make GM business significantly more efficient. However, it appears to have turned into more of a case of outsourcing traditional dataprocessing ... and they later spin off EDS (1996) ... with long term contracts for traditional dataprocessing outsourcing.

HP was bulking up ... acquiring compaq ... which had previously required some amount of DEC and Tandem. Then HP also acquires EDS.
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/press-release.html?id=169924

but then (from 2008 acquisition by HP to 2012)

How did EDS lose $8bn in value in four years?
http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240161906/How-did-EDS-lose-8bn-in-value-in-four-years

the above says EDS was set up in 1962 ... predating 360 ... so Boeing folklore appeared to confuse EDS founder with somebody else.

EDS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Data_Systems

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2014 16:51:13 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
This might be okay in a timesharing system where there are lots of users doing trivial stuff, but in a heavily batch-oriented system you don't want to switch tasks for every I/O. Of course there's no reason the system couldn't have optimized this and read in a bunch of pages at once, but the pages might still be scattered on disk - would have to optimize this as well.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#71 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#73 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#74 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#75 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

yep, i did that and a whole lot more with mmap'ed filesystem for cms. as i mentioned tss/360 hadn't ... and the FS people seemed to know less than the tss/360 ... and the s/38 is characterized has having (further) simplified what was in FS.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

later doing HSDT (high speed data transport)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt

not just tcp/ip in conjunction with NSF wanting to interconnect the NSF supercomputer centers ... which eventually morphs into NSFNET backbone ... precursor to the modern internet ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#nsfnet
also old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet

I also had to deal with internal network nodes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

the internal network technology had made some simplificatioin running under cp67 & vm370 ... using the "spool file interface" which shared lots of characteristics with single level store serialized, synchronous API ... it did 4k block reads & writes .... but was disabled from execution during the disk i/o. since the disks were shared with other activity ... it wasn't unusual to be limited to 5-8 4k transfer/sec (20kbytes to 30kbytes/sec). however with a few 4800 & 9600 links ... it wasn't noticable ... but it started to be noticed running several full-duplex 56kbit links (10kbytes/sec per link). HSDT was running serveral T1 (150kbytes/sec per direction, 300kbytes/sec full-duplex). I needed an disk i/o interface that delivered around 3mbytes/sec aggregate (higher with careful load balancing across multiple disks). I tweaked the interface for mmap cms filesystem
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap

for the vm370 spool file system ... supporting contiguous allocation, multiple block read ahead and multiple block write behind and asynchronous, no-blocking i/o operations (SFS for spool file system, not the SFS that they called the cms shared file system). i tried to get it deployed on the internal network backbone sites ... but it got sidetracked by the communcationg group ... they were spreading tales about how SNA/VTAM could be used for the NSFNET backbone ... some old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email870109

as well as other misinformation about how the internal network would stop working if it wasn't converted to SNA/VTAM (including precluding technical people from attending future internal backbone network meetings)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#email870302
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#email870306

old posts referencing SFS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#43 Migrating pages from a paging device (was Re: removal of paging device)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#7 More newbie stop the war here!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#44 PDP-10 Archive migration plan
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#26 Microkernels are not "all or nothing". Re: Multics Concepts For
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#63 SPXTAPE status from REXX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#19 HERCULES
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#3 History of C
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#38 Thou shalt have no other gods before the ANSI C standard
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#28 MVCIN instruction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#35 Charging Time
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#21 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#45 The Complete April Fools' Day RFCs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007q.html#26 Does software life begin at 40? IBM updates IMS database
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#22 Was CMS multi-tasking?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#63 Operating Systems for Virtual Machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009o.html#12 Calling ::routines in oorexx 4.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#26 Was VM ever used as an exokernel?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#35 Was VM ever used as an exokernel?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#25 Multiple Virtual Memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#29 Multiple Virtual Memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#18 VM Workshop 2012
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#23 VM Workshop 2012
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#24 Co-existance of z/OS and z/VM on same DASD farm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013n.html#91 rebuild 1403 printer chain

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 08:59:58 -0700
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
Of course, on a System/360, while base registers may _look_ like segment registers - they contain the starting address of an area of memory in which the displacement in an instruction points to things - they're not.

While segments are intended to be static, base registers are just a means of referring, with a shorter displacement, to locations in a larger area of memory. The bounds to the area of memory available to a program are determined by memory mapping hardware under supervisor control.


os/360 model was linear real memory. 360/67 had virtual memory with 1mbyte segments and 24bit & 32bit address space options ... that could be used for memory mapping files (single level store).

move to 370 added 64kbyte segment option but removed 32bit address space option. originally 370 virtual memory architecture had a lot more segment features ... but retrofitting virtual memory hardware to 370/165 ran into schedule problems ... the os/360 people said they weren't needed (original move of os/360 to virtual memory, "SVS" was single 16mbyte linear address space ... basically used to simulate 16mbyte real storage).

Next os/360 increment was "MVS", a 16mbyte virtual address space for each application ... however, os/360 was heavily pointer passing API, so an 8mbyte kernel image was mapped into every 16mbyte application address space (basically simulating os/360 with 16mbyte real storage with single application running). There was a problem with os/360 subsystem services that ran outside of the kernel ... where each subsytem was now in their own separate virtual address space ... which made it difficult for applications using the pointer-passing API. The hack was a global 1mbyte common segment area that appeared in every (16mbyte) virtual address space ... where an application could allocate space for parameter passing, make a kernel call to switch to a subsystem with pointer to the common segment area parameters. The amount of CSA space needed was somewhat proportional to the size of the system (number of concurrently running applications and number of different subsystems) and late in MVS/370 cycle, large installations were faced wtih CSA growing to 6 or 7 segments (or even 8) ... possibly leaving no room at all for application (16mbyte virtual address space, 8mbyte mvs kernel image, 8mbyte CSA image, 0mbyte for application)

follow-on architectures introduced 31bit virtual addressing ... but also instructions that addressed different virtual address spaces ... along with hardware support for call/return support for MVS subsystems that would perform address space swapping (w/o requiring overhead of passing through kernel) ... and more recently 64bit addressing. The MVS paradigm has continued to use mostly linear address space model with segments used for mapping single common system elements in each virtual address space (simulating original os/360 linear real storage as if each application had dedicated real machine). Various extensions for multiple virtual address space adressing come closer to what some other systems use segments for. some description
http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r11/topic/com.ibm.zos.r11.ieaa500/iea2a57012.htm
http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r11/topic/com.ibm.zos.r11.ieaa600/iea2a690158.htm
http://pic.dhe.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r13/topic/com.ibm.zos.r13.ieaa500/vio.htm

original 801/risc virtual memory segments come closer to base register. no hardware protection modes and applications could execute inline segment register change instructions as easily as changing base register; 32bit virutal addressesing, 16 segment registers with 256mbyte segments. segment registers were 12bit value ... original 801/risc literature talked about 40bit virtual address ... 28bit segments plus 12bit number of segments. it wasn't until the decision to target 801/risc for the unix workstation market ... that they had to add hardware protect mode and require kernel call to change segment values. however some of the 801/risc literature continued to use the original 801/risc artifact of application inline segment register value change (w/o kernel calls) as easily as changing base registers. RIOS/RS6000 literature continued to mention 52-bit virtual addressing ... 28bit segments and segment register doubled to 24bit (number of segments). some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

recent posts mentioning pointer-passing API, common segment, CSA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#54 Difference between MVS and z / OS systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#62 Difference between MVS and z / OS systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#83 Costs of core
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#86 z/OS physical memory usage with multiple copies of same load module at different virtual addresses
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#36 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#39 1950: Northrop's Digital Differential Analyzer

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Do we really need 64-bit addresses or is 48-bit enough?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Do we really need 64-bit addresses or is 48-bit enough?
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 09:51:52 -0700
John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> writes:
They say (approximately, it's been a while since I read it) that the 12 bit displacements are short enough to force all addressing through base registers, therefore they didn't need virtual memory address translation hardware because they could get the same effect by changing base registers. I am aware of one system that actually worked that way, APL\360, where all references to the current workspace were relative to a base register, which could change if the workspace were swapped out and swapped back in somewhere else. Everywhere else it didn't work, since programs store pointers in memory, and there's no convention for when you might be time sliced and your data moved.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#78 Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?

APL\360 typically had 16kbyte (or sometimes 32kbyte) real-memory workspaces (could be done with four or possibly eight registers) ... however APL\360 was purely interpreted so there was no real 360 instructions in a workspace.

at the science center, there were some issues porting APL\360 to cp67/cms and large virtual memory ... all the multi-tasking & swapping stuff could be eliminated ... but storage management initially was bear. APL\360 allocated new location for every assignment ... until it exhausted available workspace, and then it would do garbage collection and compact all allocated space ... and start again. this wasn't an issue in 16kbyte workspace that was swapped as single operation ... but caused severe page thrashing with workspace large virtual memories (hundreds of kbytes to multiple mbytes). Eventually for CMS\APL, the whole storage management and garbage collection had to be redone for demand paged virtual memory.

CMS\APL ... in addition to opening up workspace size to real-world applications also added API for system services ... being able to do things like read/write files, etc. This also led to some security issues at the science center. the science center cp67/cms operation was made available to students & staff at various univ. in boston/cambridge area ... however, the business planners in armonk corporate hdqtrs also loaded the most valuable corporate assets on the machine (detailed customer data) and started doing what-if business modeling (had to guarantee that there was no non-authorized access).

posts mentioning science center
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
posts mentioning APL (&/or HONE, large world-wide platform that used predominantly APL applications)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

HP splits, again

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: HP splits, again.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:00:06 -0700
greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
"Synergy" is one direction. "Returning to core values", is the other. (New holland made balers once.) I think that nowadays the design of things are done by commpanies with expertise , then the actual manufacturing is done by others, sometime in layers, on down, and then tax avoidence is implemented at whatever level is needed. China thrived on the bottom layers of manufacturing, but is building up higher expertise.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#76 HP splits, again

Volcker (former fed chairman) quote about disappearing civil enginneering jobs and univ. programs because of long term lack of spending on infrastructure "Confidence Men", pg290:
Well, I said, 'The trouble with the United States recently is we spent several decades not producing many civil engineers and producing a huge number of financial engineers. And the result is s**tty bridges and a s**tty financial system!

... snip ...

during the stimulus spending on "shovel ready projects" there were articles about needing to hire chinese civil engineering firms ... because of the lack in the US. recent references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#45 To Forgive Design: Understanding Failure
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#33 War or Jobs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#105 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms

On War: The beautifully reproduced illustrated 1908 edition, with introduction by Andy McNab, notes by Col. F.N. Maude and brief memoir of General Clausewitz (Carl Von Clausewitz and Andy McNab)
http://www.amazon.com/War-beautifully-reproduced-illustrated-introduction-ebook/dp/B00G3DFLY8

from intro of the 1908 edition ... loc394-95:
As long as the Socialists only threatened capital they were not seriously interfered with, for the Government knew quite well that the undisputed sway of the employer was not for the ultimate good of the State.

... snip ...

the government needed general population standard of living sufficient that soldiers were willing to fight to preserve their way of life. Capitilists tendency was to reduce worker standard of living to the lowest possible ... below what the government needed for soldier motivation ... and therefor needed socialists as counterbalance to the capitalists in raising the general population standard of living.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:02:34 -0700
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
It's a possibility. Another one, though, is IBM's NIH syndrome. Cf. "DASD", "pel", or "alphameric", for instance.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#71 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#73 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#74 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#75 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#77 Bell Picturephone--early business application experiments

at least DASD ... direct access storage device ... predates emergance of disks at the dominate form factor.

past posts mentioning getting to play disk engineer in bldgs. 14&15
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:23:46 -0700
nmm@needham.csi.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:
The 31 bit extension was MVS/XA, which I used. The 64 (actually 48) bit extension was MVS/ESA, and was somewhat segmented, in that > 32 (31?) bit addressing was done by concatenating multiple 32 (31?) bit sections. Done badly, at least initially. I lost contact after that.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#78 Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#79 Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?

"access registers" ... multiple virtual address spaces, were partially retrofitted to end of 370 life as dual-address space mode on 3033.

after the failure of FS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

there was mad rush to get stuff back into the 370 product pipelines (FS was completely different and was going to completely replace 370, internal politics during the FS period were killing off 370 efforts).

The 3033 (end of 370) & 3081/370xa (31bit, etc) were somewhat kicked of in parallel (370/xa got the internal label "811" for nov1978 date on all the architecture documents) using warmed over FS technology ... reference
http://www.jfsowa.com/computer/memo125.htm

MVS was getting increasingly bloated and pushing the limits of both real storage and virtual addressing. For 3033, they did hack with the 370 16bit page table entry ... and prepended two unused bits to the 12bit real page (4kbyte) number to get 14bits ... or addressing up to 64mbytes real storage (even tho all instruction addressing was limited to 16mbytes). There were various complications with storage that resided above the (real) 16mbyte line.

The common segment area (grown to common system area) was threatening to hit 8mbytes ... which along with the 8mbyte kernel image ... would have left nothing in each 16mbyte virtual address space for applications.

Subset of access registers was retrofitted to 3033 as dual-address space mode ... semi-privileged subsystem could access both its own (home) virtual address space and the calling application virtual address space (the call to the subsystem still passed thruough the kernel which also did address space register swapping) ... this was done by the person that later left and worked on HP's risc implementation and one of the principle people that worked on wide-word/Itanium (i have old email, some people were worried that I might go with him).

Some subsystem work transitioned to dual-address space mode, alleviating a little of the pressure threatening to force CSA to 8mbytes.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

HP splits, again

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: HP splits, again.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:25:08 -0700
Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> writes:
Historically there are lots of precedence for this. Go back only a few years to once powerful British Commonwealth.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#76 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#80 HP splits, again

other topic drift ... burma had one of the highest literacy rates in the world before the commonwealth/empire started looting the country.

and with respect to the previous observations about the us auto industry ... about the time that they were lobbying for the import quotas and afterwards when they were suppose to use the resulting windfall profits to reinvent themselves to be competitive for foreign makers (since they were just pocketing the windfall profits and continuing business as usual, there was call for 100% tax on those "unearned" profits) ... the US auto industry was spinning in the us media how poor the foreign competition were.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#auto.c4.taskforce

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

HP splits, again

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: HP splits, again.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:47:28 -0700
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
Though even in those areas, greater and greater portions of the manufacturing is being farmed out to suppliers. The estimate I see for the 787 is 30-40% outsourced.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#76 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#80 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#83 HP splits, again

I've mentioned as undergraduate ... getting brought in to Boeing the summer '69 as full time employee (one of the half dozen or so of the embryonic Boeing Computer Services) to help setup BCS ... consolidating Boeing dataprocessing into independent business unit with objective of better monetizing the investment. That summer, 747 #3 was flying the skies of seattle getting FAA flt certification. They talked about the cabin was moved above the nose so that it could be swung open in the freight version ... for easier onload/offload ... and had been bid for the C5A contract.

One of Boyd's acolytes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html

mentioned that he was employed with the C5A work and they considered that Boeing was the real winner of the contract. There were references that for-profit MICC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#military.industrial.complex

had learned to place bits of manufacturing in every important congressional district to make it more difficult for congress to kill a program. However, there was enormous problem bringing pieces form all of the place and getting them to asctual assemble. This really only works with long established, well worked out commodity parts with multiple different suppliers meeting the same spec. It fails miserably for first time efforts.

This MICC strategy apparently infected Boeing after merger with M/D ... not only getting political backing in the US ... but also placing outsourcing to operations in other countries ... to get foreign country backing also.

In the case of 787, one executive finally came out and gave the excuse that they had anticipated that the outsourcing would cut billions off the development and years off the lead time (obfuscation and misdirection away from the objective of getting political support) ... when it turned out to be/have the exact opposite effect (increasing costs by billions and adding years to the lead time).

past posts mentioning 787/dreamliner
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#54 Was FORTRAN buggy?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#43 Boeings New Dreamliner Ready For Maiden Voyage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#44 Boeings New Dreamliner Ready For Maiden Voyage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#45 Boeings New Dreamliner Ready For Maiden Voyage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#56 The real cost of outsourcing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#33 The real cost of outsourcing (and offshoring)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#65 End of an era
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#28 US military spending has increased 81% since 2001
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011l.html#38 movie "Airport" on cable
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#2 Did you see the one about the F-35 and F/A-18?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#91 IBM layoffs strike first in India; workers describe cuts as 'slaughter' and 'massive'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#14 Super Cane's Computers run Windows

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

HP splits, again

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: HP splits, again.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:16:02 -0700
greymausg <maus@mail.com> writes:
Actually, according to many reports, there is an anti-corruption drive going on in China, it was always a place where you paid to do business, they are trying to cut down on that.

some number articles online recently about fighting corruption in china.

Xi Jinping's Anti-Corruption Campaign Is Doomed to Fail
http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/xi-jinpings-anti-corruption-campaign-is-doomed-to-fail/
From Farmhouse to Fiji: Where Corrupt Chinese Officials Hide Out
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/10/08/from-farmhouse-to-fiji-where-corrupt-chinese-officials-hide-out/
To Stamp Out Pollution and Corruption, China Could Start With Legal Reform
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/10/08/to-stamp-out-pollution-and-corruption-china-could-start-with-legal-reform/
Anti-corruption campaign shows broad power of NDRC officials
http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2014-10/09/content_18710238.htm

one of the longer running themes is about "naked" officials ... those who have moved their assets and family out of the country.

America revealed as top spot for China's 'naked officials'
http://www.icij.org/blog/2014/08/america-revealed-top-spot-chinas-naked-officials

the too big to fail
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#too-big-to-fail
not only money laundering for drug cartels and terrorists, but also corrupt chinese officials
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#money.laundering

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#76 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#80 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#83 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#84 HP splits, again

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

HP splits, again

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: HP splits, again.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:57:10 -0700
Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> writes:
China has the ability now to _design_ finished products. I am starting to see innovative Chinese IP being developed. Besides the huge export market they have, they have a huge emerging middle class domestic market with disposable income. Foreign products are attractive to them but the domestic market is protected by import tariffs, something that North America eliminated a couple decades ago so we could send capital to China.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#76 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#80 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#83 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#84 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#85 HP splits, again

china passes US as world leading economy

China Overtakes US As World's Largest Economy
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-overtakes-us-as-worlds-largest-economy-2014-10
China's Economy Just Overtook The U.S. In One Key Measure
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/08/china-gdp-tops-us_n_5951374.html

has growing military capability (as well as a leading manufacturer of components for the world, DOD periodically raises issue of possible chinese backdoors in critical US military hardware)

China Touts Anti-stealth Radar
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20141004/DEFREG03/310040023/China-Touts-Anti-stealth-Radar
China considers a naval stealth fighter based on Chengdu J-20
http://defense-update.com/20141006_j20_carriers.html
China's Deadly Missile Arsenal Is Growing: What Should America Do about It?
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/chinas-deadly-missile-arsenal-growing-what-should-america-do-11406

I've mentioned in the past that in the early 90s study that at least half of advanced STEM degrees from cal. univ. went to foreign born students from the other side of pacific ... and at least half of the employees fueling the internet boom in the late 90s were such foreign born ... and there could be tipping point when new ones stop coming and those already here return home.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#41 How will current AI/robot stories play when AIs are real?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#63 OT (sort-of) - Does it take math skills to do data processing ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#33 [IBM-MAIN] NY Times editorial on white collar jobs going
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#31 Many engineers lack even a four-year degree
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#48 Mozilla v Firefox
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#21 Taxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#63 DEC's Hudson fab
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#7 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#45 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#51 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008.html#73 Computer Science Education: Where Are the Software Engineers of Tomorrow?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#37 was: 1975 movie "Three Days of the Condor" tech stuff
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008e.html#51 was: 1975 movie "Three Days of the Condor" tech stuff
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009o.html#63 U.S. students behind in math, science, analysis says
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010d.html#3 search engine history, was Happy DEC-10 Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#22 60 Minutes News Report:Unemployed for over 99 weeks!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#18 21st century India: welcome to the smartest city on the planet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#65 Can anyone offer some insight
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#18 Great Brian Arthur article on the Second Economy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#55 copyright protection/Doug Englebart
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#32 How Comp-Sci went from passing fad to must have major

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Do we really need 64-bit addresses or is 48-bit enough?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Do we really need 64-bit addresses or is 48-bit enough?
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 18:50:38 -0700
jgk@panix.com (Joe keane) writes:
which stuff was not included in 370 at first

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#78 Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#79 Do we really need 64-bit addresses or is 48-bit enough?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#82 Do we really need 64-bit DP or is 48-bit enough?

the mainstream os/360 was real storage paradigm with extensive pointer passing API (as previously mentioned). The latest incarnation was MVT ... which could run a "variable number of tasks" ... but its real (contiguous) storage management was horribly inefficient (basically four times the necessary contiguous memory had to be allocated) ... limiting the tasks that could be run concurrently.

as processors were becoming faster than disks were becoming faster ... systems were becoming increasingly i/o bound ... requiring more and more concurrent tasks to keep processor utilized.

this is reference to study that showed if virtual memory was added to os/360 MVT ... it could run four times as many tasks (16 instead of 4) in 1mbyte real storage (typical high-end configuration of the period) with little or no impact from paging ... which convinced upper management to deploy virtual memory on all 370s.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011d.html#73 Multiple Virtual Memory

the initial transition was laying out OS/360 MVT in single 16mbyte virtual address space (very similar os/360 MVT operations of the period running under cp67 virtual machine system with a 16mbyte virtual machine address space) ... this was referred to as OS/VS2 SVS (single virtual storage). It required a small hack to handle page faults and do page i/os. The biggest effrot was translating application channel programs ... created copies that used real addresses rather than virtual addresses ... initially they borrowed the corresponding routine from CP67 and cobbled it into the MVT EXCP processing.

staring in the mid-70s, i started pointing out the mismatch between increasing processing speed and the much slower improvement in disk thoughput. In the early 80s, I made that claim that the relative system throughput of disks had declined by an order of magnitude over a 15yr period (aka processor got 40-50 times faster, disks only got 4-5 times faster). disk division executives took exception to the statement and assigned their performance group to refute the statement ... after several weeks they basically came back and said that I had actually slightly understated the mismatch. old reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#31 Big I/O or Kicking the Mainframe out the Door

the performance group took the analysis and respun it for a SHARE presentation ... recommendations for optimizing i/o throughput
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#3 using 3390 mod-9s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#68 DASD Response Time (on antique 3390?)

other past refs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#43 Bloat, elegance, simplicity and other irrelevant concepts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#55 How Do the Old Mainframes Compare to Today's Micros?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#10 Virtual Memory (A return to the past?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#46 The god old days(???)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#4 IBM S/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#66 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#62 any 70's era supercomputers that ran as slow as today's supercomputers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#40 MVS History (all parts)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#61 MVS History (all parts)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#23 Smallest Storage Capacity Hard Disk?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#5 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#11 Microcode? (& index searching)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#20 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#8 What are some impressive page rates?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#9 What are some impressive page rates?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#39 100% CPU is not always bad

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

HP splits, again

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: HP splits, again.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:01:42 -0700
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
china passes US as world leading economy

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#86 HP splits, again.

Not Just The Largest Economy - Here Are 26 Other Ways China Has Surpassed America
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-09/not-just-largest-economy-%E2%80%93-here-are-26-other-ways-china-has-surpassed-america

other posts in thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#76 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#80 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#83 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#84 HP splits, again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014k.html#85 HP splits, again

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970






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