List of Archived Posts

2006 Newsgroup Postings (04/15 - 04/19)

IBM 3380 and 3880 maintenance docs needed
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
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News Release
The Pankian Metaphor
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The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
Taxes
TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
The Pankian Metaphor
TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
Why are smart cards so dumb?
Why are smart cards so dumb?
Why are smart cards so dumb?
Why are smart cards so dumb?
The Pankian Metaphor
Old PCs--environmental hazard
Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)
Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)
News Release
The Pankian Metaphor
Taxes
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
The Pankian Metaphor
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REP cards
The Pankian Metaphor
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IBM 3380 and 3880 maintenance docs needed

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM 3380 and 3880 maintenance docs needed
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 17:05:31 -0600
Phil Payne wrote:
I've mentioned this before, but Fundamental Software has a huge collection of manuals and old equipment. When I was there once I wandered around their lab and saw just about every device I could remember. They have the old parallel channel cable assembly machine and all sorts of prehistoric stuff. I know they have the maintenance carts for most equipment and there's just a chance they have some duplicates.

I remember the 3880 rollout, since the damn thing plays fast and loose with the channel timings - it doesn't conform to the OEMI. I think the actual tag timing it uses is in the Functional Characteristics manual.

There also used to be a contraption called a "Holly Box" for checking a controller's tag timing.


bus&tag supposedly max'ed at aggregate channel cable distance of 200ft and 1.5mbytes/sec ... although i seem to remember actual devices like 2305 had more like 80ft cable distance. there was end-to-end handshake on every byte transferred.

datastreaming relaxed requirement for end-to-end handshake on every byte ... which allowed it to double the aggregate channel cable distance to 400ft and the data rate to 3mbyte/sec.

the 3880 controller supported datastreaming and 3mbyte/sec transfer (for 3380 drives). the 3880 disk controller went from the (fast) horizontal microcode engine in the 3830 handling everything to a split operation with vertical microcode engine jib-prime handling control functions and a special hardware path for data transfer in the 3880.

the 3880 supposedly was required to pass a product performance acceptance test of being within 10% of 3830. for the test they used as a two-drive VS1 system doing identical job stream with 3830 controller and then replaced with 3880 controller (using same 3330 drives).

there was a problem with the jib-prime having higher latency processing commands and control operations than the 3830 ... and so they tried a little slight-of-hand. They raised operation complete to the channel before all the control unit functions had completed. For the VS1 acceptance benchmark, this allowed the completion of controller operation cleanup to be overlapped with the VS1 interrupt process and i/o handling (reflecting it back up to the application, and the application scheduling the next operation).

I had done this rewrite of the input/output supervisor for engineering lab (bldg. 14) and the product test lab (bldg.15)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk

they had tried doing hardware development testing of single unit (testcell) in an MVS environment ... and the i/o operation anomolies and errors resulted in 15min. mean-time-between-failure for the MVS system. My rewrite of input/output supervisor was so that the system wouldn't ever fail (because of anomolies and/or errors for i/o activity) doing concurrent testing of multiple devices and at the same time running under the table computer services for the engineers (i.e. prior to that all testing had been stand-alone bare machine ... on several dedicated processors).

since i was responsible for the software ... when there was significate anomolies with development hardware ... i would be the first to be blamed (i.e. software not hardware) and would have to diagnose the problem.

about 10am one monday, i got a call from the engineers in the product test lab. they a 3033 (something like the second engineering machine from the pok plant). we had gotten it configured with a bootlegged 3830 controller and 16 3330 drives for private timesharing computing service ... in addition to its function of concurrent product test of several development devices (which previously had to be done one at a time with scheduled, bare machine time). The product test stuff rarely accounted for a couple percent of the machine ... so the rest of machine we could use for our own purposes.

In any case, the monday mid-morning call was that the timesharing thruput and response had gone all to pieces and "what had I changed over the weekend". Since I hadn't changed anything, I had to discover what changes they had made (which they initially denied doing any changes at all).

So a lot more diagnosing and eventually found over the weekend that the engineers had replaced the 3830 disk controller (for the 16 3330 drives) with a new product test 3880 controller. Lots more diagnostic and strobing regarding what the 3880 controller was doing turned up a real performance problem with the 3880 controller. While the two-pack VS1 performance acceptance test had the gimmick that the 3880 was presenting completion early ... allowing some of the 3880 processing latency to be overlapped with VS1 I/O processing .... the VS1 was essentially doing sequential, serialilzed disk i/o.

The 16 3330 drives and any reasonable set of concurrent activity ... was finding that when the 3880 completion was handled by the interrupt processor ... I would frequently have queued I/O activity and immediately redrive the 3880 with a new operation (while it was still busy trying to cleanup from the previous request). The result was that the controller had to reflect controller busy (cc=1, csw stored, SM+BUSY) to the i/o initiation. That met that I had to requeue the request that I had just attempted to start (on the pending queue). Finally when the 3880 had completed whatever it was doing, since it had reflected SM+BUSY, it now had to present a (new) control unit end (CUE) interrupt indicating that it was now free. This caused a lot of extra processing in both the 3880 controller and also in the software ... as well as resulting in significant additional delays for I/O operations.

So it was back to the drawing board ... trying to make the 3880 control function processing more efficient and closer to that of the previous 3830 disk controller. Fortunately, at the moment, we were still six months away from 3880 first customer ship.

By first customer ship, processing had gotten better, but some things weren't as good as 3830. Both 3880 and 3830 had provisions for multiple channel interfaces. However, there was an enormous amount of 3880 processing and latency when switching from one channel interface to another channel interface (on two consecutive i/o requests coming in on different channel interface). I had done this really nifty and super-efficient multiple channel thruput and load balancing support (being able to maximize use of all possible channel interfaces from the same processor). However, the channel switching overhead in the 3880 controller was so enormous that I had to fall back to much simpler alternate path processing when dealing with 3880.

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 17:31:35 -0600
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor

somewhat along the theme of metrics, instrumentation, analysis, benchmarking, being able to correlate projected results with actual outcomes, auditing, etc ... recent article

Decision-Support Systems: Lessons from the Military
http://www.cioinsight.com/article2/0,1540,1949797,00.asp

which then drifts into a Boyd story about critique of new heads-up display for F16
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#4 Future architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#49 "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto?

misc. past posts mentioning boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
misc. post from around the web mentioning boyd.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2

i've mentioned before there was extensive instrumentation and metrics in support of implementing the dynamic adaptive resource control algorithms. also, as i've mentioned there was also extensive measurement and benchmarking calibrating and validating the operation of the resource management product. One sequence of 2000 benchmarks in preperation for product release took 3 months elapsed time to run
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bench

misc. recent posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#22 A very basic question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#30 A very basic question

a lot of the work I had done as an undergraduate in the 60s were incorporated into cp67. However, some amount of that work was dropped in the morph from cp67 to vm370. It was re-introduced in the resource management product ... 30th anniversary of the product announce coming up on May 11th
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#45 VM/370 Resource Manager

the resource manager also had the distinction for guinea pig for charging for kernel software. charging for (application) software sort of started with the unbundling announcement on 23jun1969. However, the explanation to the gov was that kernel software was required for the correct operation of the hardware therefor remained bundled (i.e. "free"). Because of a number of factors (that i've discussed before), by the mid-70s, attitudes were changing towards charging also for kernel software. misc. past posts on the subject
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:36:48 -0600
greymaus writes:
A lot of heavy trucking is owner operated, which is very efficent costwise.

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor

... the issue is that the significant subsidy of the road system for the benefit of heavy trucking distorts the true aggregate trucking infrastructure costs (road costs attributed to heavy trucking might even be the majority of fully loaded infastructure costs for heavy trucking operation)

the issue in the heavy trucking is that the majority cost of the road system is almost totally heavy trucking related (aka driving factor in design, building and cost of road system is driven by its use by heavy trucking ... modulo city streets and bridges that limited the weight of vehicles).

portions of heavy trucking can appear to be much more efficient costwise ... only if the road costs (attributed to heavy trucking) is totally discounted.

in one of the past threads, somebody mentioned that a major driver in the interstate road system was for military purposes ... you might make the case that engineering roads for heavy vehicles were actually driven by national defense and military use ... and that heavy trucking was able to make a niche for itself off (at least the original design ... however, a major portion of ongoing maintenance is directly heavy trucking driven)

trains tend to have the costs of the track bed fully accounted for (and therefor in the prices they charge). however, the road system ... is amortized across all possible users of the road system ... even tho nearly all of the costs are driven by heavy trucking use. so heavy trucking costs as fuel, equipment and people time accounted for in their costs (and prices) ... but the road system costs related to heavy trucking (i.e. road design, building and maintenance is nearly all driven by its use by heavy trucking).

transportation prices charged by heavy trucking would be significantly different if the fully loaded infrastructure costs (associated with heavy trucking) was fully apportioned to heavy trucking use (as opposed to being spread over all road uses, mostly in the form of gov. taxes).

one might hypothosis that the facade of cheap trucking (significantly subsidized from other sources) may be a good national policy ... helping integrate different physical regions. However, the significant subsidizing of trucking costs ... and therefor prices ... would unnaturally bias customer choosing to ship by truck rather than by other methods of transportation (like rail).

these references
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel

go into detail about factors (and costs) considered for road design being solely related to use by heavy trucking.

one of the considerations from a national policy viewpoint, is somewhat analogous to the reference to distortion of distribution tables for evaluating tax activity. a national policy evaluation of national distribution of goods (and the effect on the economy) would be inaccurate if it only looked at truck and fuel costs. the road costs are possibly the majority of the actual, fully loaded costs for shipping goods by heavy truck (and aren't being directly accounted for). not correctly apportioning the real road costs to heavy trucking operation could result in incorrect assuptions and any resulting decisions being wrong.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 09:27:02 -0600
greymaus writes:
The old idea of the gambler covering 'insider knowledge' gambling under a cover of random choices, leaving enough profit to make it worthwhile. True randomness would be very hard to achieve.

so true randomness may be hard to achieve ... all it has to be is practically random ... and in the case of something like page replacement algorithm ... have sufficiently random characteristics that the choice is better than an extremely deterministic implementation (like least recently used) ... when the assumptions inherit in the deterministic implementation are wrong, i.e. LRU is based on the assumption that storage used in the recent past will be in the near future. The LRU assumption is correct across many operational environments and workloads ... but may be incorrect for something like sequentially accessing some data.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#wsclock

this is one of the areas that I got tss/360 with my cp67 enhancements ... both operating systems ran on the same 360/67 hardware.

they were testing early version of tss/360 at the univ. on the same 360/67 that I was using for testing cp67. tss/360 had a one-level-store paradigm for disk/file operation .... not only were binary executables memory-mapped but all files (even data files with sequential access patterns) were memory-mapped. however, tss/360 only had LRU-like algorithm for page replacement ... and no special provisions for doing things like recognizing sequential access of data files.

anyway, the univ had a lot of work that was fortran test ... i.e. fortran compile, load, and execute. we put together a representative fortran workload and ran it under both tss/360 and cp67 (using the same hardware). for tss/360 test, it ran four simulated "users" all executing the same fortran workload. On cp67, I ran 30 simulatated "users", all concurrently executing the same fortran workload. The avg. interactive response on tss/360 for four users was several seconds. The avg. interactive response for cp67 for 30 uses (running the same workload) was subsecond.

One of the interesting gambling examples is comparison of Los Vegas and gov. lottories. Supposedly the psuedo randomness in the Los Vegas slots is setup to return something like 98-99 percent of bets. The casinos slots keep only one to two percent on each slot played. The casinos make their money on the churn ... expecting the slots to be played over and over. On one hundred plays, the slots randomness would supposedly retain 1-(.99**100) or about 1-.37 = .63 of the money.

Now a number of the state lottories claim to return on the order of 80precent (keeping 20percent on each play). Doing a similar type of analysis (used for slots) of a weekly lottory ... if it were four weeks of churn ... then it would be 1-(.8**4) or about 1-.4 = .6 of the money (assuming constant starting amount for buying tickets and no new money introduced each week).

Governments seem to have a strong preference for such lottories, especially big winning lottories, since they also get to tax the lottory winnings as income. As a result, the actual amount of money retained by the gov. in each weekly lottory play is probably closer to 40 percent (20 percent that they take directly off the top as part of the play and possibly another 20 percent that they take in taxes on the lottory "winnings"). That makes the government take on four week (weekly) lottery churn calculation closer to 1-(.6**4) or about 1-.13 = .87.

In the slots churn, an individual might start with hundred dollars in quarters and after one hundred plays (on the avg), only have 37 dollars left. The weekly gov lottory churn calculations is somewhat obfuscated being spread across a large number of individuals and with "new" (additional) money typically being introduced into the lottery ticket infrastructure each week. Attempting to translate the gov. lottery analysis into the casino slot scenario ... the example might be a community decides to allocate $1m for buying lottery tickets. After the first drawing, the gov. keeps $200k and returns $800k in winnings to the community. However, the gov. also possibly gets another $200k in taxes on the $800k distributed in winnings ... so effectively there is only $600k to buy lottery tickets the next week. This continues for four weeks. In theory, after four weeks, the gov. has $870k (of the original $1m) ... in effect, the gov. gets to skim on the order of 40percent of the total bet each week (in a combination of what it takes off the top and what it gets to take as taxes on winnings treated as income).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 09:43:41 -0600
greymaus writes:
It would be almost impossible to decide which jobs are subsidised vis-a-vis those which are not.. Currency fluctuations would have a big part in this, as in the case where the US dollar is the main, if weakening, world currency. Some years ago the Argentinian currency collapsed, which would make their produce, mostly agricultural, VERY competitive on world markets. One of the main strengths of the US economy is large-scale food exports, do you let that die, or help it in some way. Suppose some town away in the middle of nowhere loses its main industry, say a defence one, and there are people there who can't move easily.. (This is more a problem in Europe than the US).. Do you make spurious jobs for these people, keeping them in the habits of employment?.. I know one place near here, where people have settled into the the round of the off-licence, bookies shop, casual jobs, petty crime thing.. If you provide too many of these 'soft' jobs, employers look at the figures for that area, and think that there are not enough free people available for employment..

for economic analysis and policy decisions ... you don't have to know exactly which jobs are subsidized. statistics and correlation can determine a lot about an infrastructure ... w/o requiring that you have exact information about any single item.

an example is my recent postings about performance analysis and multiple regression analysis
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#22 A very basic question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#40 A very basic question

there was an example of long term analysis and pro-active operation vis-a-vis purely firefighting and re-active.

there was an article in (I think) boston globe in the 70s about the failing shoe and garment industries in new england and people being put out of work with the closing of plants. they pointed out that little or no economic planning is typically done in the US ... somewhat leaving it purely to market forces and trying to react after the fact ... rather than planning ahead. They contrasted this to economic planning done by Swedish gov. starting in the early 50s. The gov. did detailed analysis of their industries ... calculating the value of work provided by an individual in different industries. They then established an economic policy for desired per person standard of living. For industries where the value of individual work was less than the target standard of living ... they created gov. incentives for the companies to move to some other operation (where the worker value did met the desired standard of living) ... modulo industries that were deamed "strategic" ... where they specifically allocated the budget and resources to subsidize.

Part of this was whether you take a pro-active position and economic planning to deal with the anticipated situation ... or you wait for it to happen and react to it after the fact.

a couple old posts on the subject:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#28 Offshore IT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#52 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 13:46:27 -0600
ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor

the previous posting makes reference to standard road design being predicated on the number of heavy truck axle-loads. There is a lot of information of cost of building and maintaining miles of road design for different heavy truck axle-loads. Therefor it should be possible to normalize heavy truck related road building and mainteance costs by dividing the per mile costs by the heavy truck axle-load design for the road. That gives heavy truck infrastructure related costs normalized to cost per heavy truck mile-axle-load.

aka
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel

there is also a lot of data available on gals./mile burned by different kinds of heavy trucks. that also can be normalized by dividing the heavy truck gals/mile by the number of axles for that kind of heavy truck.

given that you have costs normalized per heavy truck mile-axle-load and the gals used normalized per heavy truck mile-axle-load ... then it is possible to divide
cost/mile-axle-load cost -------------------- = --------- gals./mile-axle-load gal. used

to come up with cost/gals-used. If the infrastructure wanted to recover the heavy-truck road infrastructure related costs via a fuel tax, the above calculations could be used to come up with the approx. tax/gal for fuel sold for use in heavy trucks. At one time, I did rough calculations that this might be on the order of $50/gal.

with modern technology ... it would be possible to install some sort of gps black box in each truck and have weight stations read out the value for mile-axle-loads and levey a direct road use fee (as opposed to recoverying the heavy truck infrastructure related costs via a fuel tax).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 13:58:53 -0600
Keith writes:
How do you come up with this figure? At $50/gal they'd be paying $10-$20/mile. That seems high for the maintence costs.

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor

the issue is whether or not you choose to treat the cost of building a road for specific number of axle-loads as part of the heavy truck infrastructure costs ... in addition to the heavy truck related maintenance costs.

... aka it is possible to design a road for military heavy vehicle use against a number of heavy military vehicle axle-loads ... however the major costs isn't against designing for a specific maximum load limit ... but actually for the number of heavy truck axle-loads (i.e. the number of times a heavy truck travels the section of road). In which case, it is likely the road design would apportion a relatively small part of road building costs to military heavy vehical axle loads ... and the majority of the road building costs are still then apportioned to regular commercial heavy truck useage (number of commercial heavy truck axle-loads).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:03:51 -0600
ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor

aka ... if you choose to recover costs thru fuel tax and choose to charge less than the fully loaded calculated heavy trucking infrastructure costs/gal ... then that is an economic policy decision to subsidize commercial heavy trucking. It isn't necessarily a good or bad thing ... but it should be recognized as an explicit economic policy decision.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 12:04:13 -0600
greymaus writes:
Sweden is a poor pointer. there was a meeting locally about something of concern to the area, and a Swedish person spoke, telling us how the Swedes had dealt with a similiar problem.. One of the locals replied, 'You trust your government, we don't trust ours'.. A basic problem. I agree the Swedes have controlled their society's progress in a socially beneficial way, but that is part of their being Swedish. How they will manage with the new Baltic states, and Poland, providing low-wage industries is what they will have to deal with now, they are already having to halt competition from these countries to stop wages in Sweden collapsing.. Here, Ireland, there is no bar on anyone coming in, but they must be paid at Irish basic rates. Education is the best answer.. but technical education, rather than liberal arts..

so are you arguing that you shouldn't have methodology of ecomonic planning because sweden had did such a bad job ... or are you commented that sweden just didn't do a good job. the issue of sweden attempting economic planning is at least documented (indepdently of whether they were experienced and/or did a good job). ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#4 The Pankian Metaphor

the point of the boston globe article (from the 70s) was that at least sweden attempted to anticipate and be pro-active about some of the problems ... where the new england situation was purely a react after the fact ... as if it was not possible to predict such events in any way. There may be a secondary issue that people are actually too stupid to ever be successful at doing such predictions and therefor it should always be left to market forces adjusting afterwards.

however, it might still be useful to consider hypothetical approach to the methodology (and then measure results, and then afterwards have evidence whether humans are innately unable to correctly perform such calculations). again, even if there are short comings as in the comment about ability of humans to never achieve true randomness (it doesn't negate the usefullness):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#3 The Pankian Metaphor

theoritically you take GNP for the country with best technology available adjusting for existing GNP calculations.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#42 Votes are coins stamped with the Red Queen's head

divide that by the number of people ... and that is first order approximation to the best possible average standard of living (modulo temporary abberations by borrowing against the future and/or depleating long term resources).

repeat similar methodology for individual industries (aka industry specific gnp divided by number of people).

set a national economic policy for overall average per person.

companies in industries below that level are incented to move into other businesses. industries deemed strategic below the threshold will be subsidized (either via price supports or augmented employee benefits with gov. payments). However, the gov. funds for the subsidies have to come out of excess revenues in other economic areas of the country. For that excess to exist ... the non-strategic, non-subsidized industries will actually require economic operations above the targeted threashold in order to provide margin for the gov. to use in subsidizing the strategic industries.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 14:33:58 -0600
ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#4 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#8 The Pankian Metaphor

the other argument that might be made is that sweden might have been significantly worse off if it hadn't adopted explicit economic policies and/or adoption of explicit economic policies were done because the alternative projects indicated a significantly worse outcome (i.e. attempting action ahead of time ... rather than waiting until afterwards ... in attempt to mitigate specific economic outcomes).

however, as raised in the references
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#41 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#1 The Pankian Metaphor

to the comptroller general's talk
http://www.gao.gov/cghome/nat408/index.html America's Fiscal Future

... the talk mentioned that there is a problem that most economic policies have poor metrics, instrumentation and audits to be able to check whether they have actually accomplished anything at all in addressing/meeting the stated objectives.

one might even claim that any general consensus about lack of proper outcomes by gov. operations is analogous to bad outcomes by publicly traded companies (making the news the past couple years) .... and similar transparency and audit rules should be applied to gov. operations (as are being enhanced for publicly traded corporations). this would even further support the point in the comptroller general's talk about lack of proper metrics, instrumentation and metrics in gov. operations; although his point was related to gov. policies somewhat specifically related to policy decisions with respect to taxes and benefits.

It might be possible to extend the principle to nearly all gov. operations ... modulo Boyd's observation regarding Guderian's use of verbal orders only ... past posts mentioning the subject:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#120 atomic History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#29 Review of Steve McConnell's AFTER THE GOLD RUSH
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#16 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#36 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#38 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#33 Star Trek: TNG reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#51 employee motivation & executive compensation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#27 The BASIC Variations
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#24 Timeless Classics of Software Engineering
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#86 Organizations with two or more Managers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 15:44:25 -0600
ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#7 The Pankian Metaphor

so for another method of coming up with first order approximation, is to move all existing fuel taxes to just heavy trucking fuel use.

the detailed road design articles claim that the number of heavy truck axle-loads is the driving factor and that all other types of vehicle use can be ignored. so first order approximation is to recover the same current total fuel taxes by just taxing fuel used by heavy trucks. the 2nd order approximation is that fuel taxes only cover a portion of road building and operations. to get better approx.of total heavy truck related infrastructure cost, divide the the initial approxmimation by the fraction of total road build and operation costs covered by fuel taxes.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel

so some guesses about actual values and then the formula ... and then initial approximation.

first we need to know the current avg. fuel taxes/gal, lets say is sixty cents for estimated avg. per gal. combined/total fuel taxes.

then we need to know the percent of total fuel consumption by heavy trucking ... for calculations I'll use a maximum of .05 and a minium of .01 (i.e. heavy trucking industry accounts for somewhere between 1percent and 5percent of total vehicle fuel consumption).

then first order approximation (moving nearly all fuel taxes from all vehicles to just heavy trucking as first order approx) is within the range of

$.60/(max .05, min .01) = (min $12/gal, max $60/gal)

so the 2nd order approx. is what portion of total road costs (build and operate) is covered by fuel taxes. for calculations lets assume that it is somewhere in the .3 to .5 range (the rest funded by general revenues). the improved calculation then is

(min $12, max $60)/(max .5, min .3) = (min $24/gal, max $200/gal)

so an initial guestimate as to transferring fully loaded heavy trucking infrastructure costs to the heavy trucking industry via the use of per gal. fuel tax comes up to be in the range of between $24/gal and $200/gal,

your actual mileage may vary if you come up with more accurate values to my guestimates.

For instance, if you use a value of $.40/gal for total fuel tax, the range drops to

$.40/(max .05, min .01) = (min $8/gal, max $40/gal) and (min $8, max $40)/(max. .5, min .3) = (min $16/gal, max $133/gal)

If it turns out that the heavy trucking industry only accounts for half percent of total vehicle fuel consumption, it changes the calculation to

$.60/.005 = $120/gal and ($120/gal)/(max .5, min .3) = (min $240/gal, max $400/gal)

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:11:11 -0600
greymaus writes:
I think that the state lotteries are really aimed against the 'numbers' racket (does that still exist?).. Here, lottery winnings are not (AFAIK) taxed, which is an unnecessary burden, as the lower income earners that comprise the majority of winners are inclined to splurge on rubbish that yields large taxes for the government anyway..

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#3 The Pankian Metaphor

federal treats gambling and lottery winnings as income ... modulo recorded losses and expenses (like money spent on lottory tickets). states tend to follow federal definition of income, but nominally taxed at a fraction of the federal rate.

one of the reasons that govs. tend to like the large individual lottory winnings is that only a tiny fraction of the lottery win will be offset by individual costs/expenses (making nearly the whole win taxeable).

the state lottories have tended to make a big deal that retained lottery income (after expenses) is used for really important things like public schools; modulo some number of news reports about whether lottory operation expense charges are excessive and/or whether actual embezzlement is going on ... slightly related thread at:
https://www.financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/000699.html
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#0 Separation of Roles - an example

however, they normally don't mention that govs. are possibly taking in as much into the general fund with taxes on the winnings (as they are skimming "off the top" in the initial take).

with regard to the casinos that are cropping up around the country on "Indian reservations" ... there is getting to be more and more publicity about gambling addictions (and significant increased social infrastructure costs dealing with the problem)

for a little drift back to computing ... one of the first early adopters for our ha/cmp product
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

was a new, very large gambling casino opening on Indian reservation in conn. (supposedly compete w/atlantic city). There supposedly was going to be an initial one week shake-out of all the operations (ha/cmp system was being used to manage cash and supporting dataprocessing for pit boss tasks). However, 24hrs after starting tests, they decided to go live and opened the doors.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 17:14:28 -0600
greymaus writes:
True, but the road system is very adaptable. An atomic attack on a rail nexus would stall things a bit, trucks could use minor routes to bypass black spots..

so there may or may not be a conscious policy decision to create an enormous subsidy (in extensive roads built specifically for very large number heavy truck axle-loads) ... as increasing the country's ability/agility to deal with various kinds of conflicts, exploits, threats and vulnerabilities.

however, one might still want to have accurate information regarding the actual magnitude of such a subsidy and also possibly do a risk/benefit or cost/benefit analysis as part of economic and competitive policy decision making.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#7 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor

for some drift .... following collection of posts are mostly about financial fraud, exploits and vulnerabilities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#fraud

but there are some comments about general threat modeling and countermeasures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki13 CFP: PKI research workshop
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki14 CFP: PKI research workshop
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki15 CFP: PKI research workshop
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#cfppki19 CFP: PKI research workshop
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#2 Is cryptography where security took the wrong branch?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#3 Is cryptography where security took the wrong branch?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#8 Is cryptography where security took the wrong branch?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#17 New authentication protocol, was Re: Tinc's response to "Linux's answer to MS-PPTP"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#26 SSL, client certs, and MITM (was WYTM?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#28 SSL, client certs, and MITM (was WYTM?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#11 Difference between TCPA-Hardware and a smart card (was: example: secure computing kernel needed)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#3 Non-repudiation (was RE: The PAIN mnemonic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#47 authentication and authorization ... addenda
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#60 Using crypto against Phishing, Spoofing and Spamming
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#9 E-commerce attack imminent; Sudden increase in port scanning for SSL doesn't look good
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#10 E-commerce attack imminent; Sudden increase in port scanning for SSL doesn't look good
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#12 dual-use digital signature vulnerability
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#17 should you trust CAs? (Re: dual-use digital signature vulnerability)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#18 Any TLS server key compromises?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#20 RPOW - Reusable Proofs of Work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#24 public-key: the wrong model for email?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm18.htm#25 public-key: the wrong model for email?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#5 Do You Need a Digital ID?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#46 the limits of crypto and authentication
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#28 solving the wrong problem
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#1 Is there any future for smartcards?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#5 Is there any future for smartcards?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#6 Clearing sensitive in-memory data in perl
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#11 Payment Tokens
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#27 X.509 / PKI, PGP, and IBE Secure Email Technologies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#28 X.509 / PKI, PGP, and IBE Secure Email Technologies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#33 X.509 / PKI, PGP, and IBE Secure Email Technologies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#34 X.509 / PKI, PGP, and IBE Secure Email Technologies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#12 thoughts on one time pads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#16 serious threat models
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#23 FraudWatch - Chip&Pin, a new tenner (USD10)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#33 Meccano Trojans coming to a desktop near you
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#59 Security in RADIUS (RFC2865)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#20 which CPU for educational purposes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#37 Security of Oyster Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#20 Dumb anti-MITM hacks / CAPTCHA application
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#29 passwords
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#39 SSL certificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#4 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#5 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#16 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Ceritificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#17 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004i.html#18 New Method for Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#34 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004m.html#9 REVIEW: "Biometrics for Network Security", Paul Reid
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#57 Ancient history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#2 Innovative password security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#24 Hi-tech no panacea for ID theft woes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#43 Security of Secret Algorithm encruption
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#42 feasibility of certificate based login (PKI) w/o real smart card
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#31 AMD to leave x86 behind?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#31 Caller ID "spoofing"

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

News Release

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: News Release
Newsgroups: comp.security.firewalls
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 18:48:12 -0600
"Cliff" writes:
Many many reports. Any of the older generals that were considered "the cold warrior" have a different mindset than Rumsfeld. they have fought with him all the way. Rumsfeld believes in a light, fast army with good use of special forces instead of battalions fighting it out in open warfare. The "old guard" believes in a massive miltary and overwhelming superiority of numbers which just does not fit into todays scenarios.

this predates the current conflict and owes a lot to Boyd's influence.

a lot of anecdotal accounts have John Boyd being responsible for the battle plan in the earlier Iraqi conflict (in quite a bit of conflict with the old guard) .. an older post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#61 If you're going to bullshit, eschew moderation

a couple articles from around the web:
http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c455.htm
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_32_18/ai_91210683 Insight on the News: How Col. John Boyd beat the generals

there were supposedly subsequent comments about the biggest problem with the current conflict is that John Boyd had died in 1997.

a few recent posts mentioning John Boyd:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#42 Votes are coins stamped with the Red Queen's head
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#41 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#1 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#9 The Pankian Metaphor

Another conflict involves the Crusader. a couple posting/articles on the subject
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#14 Dangerous Hardware
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bbmilitary/jan-june02/crusader_6-19.html
http://www.carlylegroup.net/thebigguns.htm
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1304652

There are similar issues for both Abrams and Crusader with regard to rapid air deployment and transition to Boyd's maneuver warfare.

another article on the paradigm change:
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/Pentagon-Rumsfeld-Preemptive11mar05.htm

although Boyd was extremely instrumental in the F16 ... he was a strong proponent behind the principles involved in the F20/Tigershark, which significantly reduced the maint. requirement per hour flown as well as level of technology and skill level needed to support the F16.

articles on Boyd and 4th generation warfare:
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/003037.php
http://www.d-n-i.net/second_level/fourth_generation_warfare.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/lind03082003.html
http://www.emergentchaos.com/archives/2005/01/boyds_relevance.html
http://www.dcmilitary.com/navy/tester/8_16/commentary/22780-1.html
http://www.tradeobservatory.org/library.cfm?filename=Fourth_Generation_Warfare.htm

lots of past postings mentioning John Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
numerous articles from around the web mentioning John Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 07:57:52 -0600
greymaus writes:
I note that the Toyota car company (according to a newspaper report a few weeks ago) is capitalized at 14 times the total of Ford and General Motors... Is it time for the US to start spending on research and development for ordinary peacetime uses, rather than wartime.

past reference to proposal for 100% unearned profit tax on us automobile industry:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#41 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#52 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#2 Internet today -- what's left for hobbiests
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#23 auto industry

past reference to being called in to participate on c4 effort (i.e. to aggresive apply dataprocessing to automobile industry competiveness):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#41 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#43 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#44 IBM 610 workstation computer

as to percent of spending ... see comptroller general's talk previously referenced:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#41 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#9 The Pankian Metaphor

and for a little recent topic drift
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#13 News Release

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:22:41 -0600
greymaus writes:
What would replace the heavy trucks for the hauling that the railways can't do?...

there is no suggestion that heavy trucks be replaced ... there is just a suggestion that the heavy trucking industry is possibly heavily subsidized for one reason or another ... and if hauling by heavy trucking industry accurately reflected the total infrastructure costs ... then there migth be different economic trade-off decisions. one is there might be more use of railways for long haul ... reducing the overall magnitude of the heavy truck mile-axle-loads i.e. the subsidy appears to be proportional to mile-axle-loads ... so long haul trucking would appear to be major contributor to total aggregate mile-axle-loads (since the longer the distance, the greater the mile-axle-loads) ... and they would seem to be the major beneficiary for any related mile-axle-load proportional subsidy.

rail would possibly be a major alternative choice for long haul trucking ... especially if both (rail and heavy trucking) had to price based on fully loaded infrastructure costs.

the issue isn't about replacing heavy trucking ... it is just a suggestion that if heavy trucking hauling rates accurately reflected fully loaded infrastructure costs ... that there might be some different economic decisions ... or they might not ... they might just pay the higher price.

more detailed discussion of mile-axle-loads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor

another example of skewed decisions based on subsidized pricing ... was large conglomerates growing rice in the delta near san francisco ... even during past draughts. For whatever reason, water was being provided charged 1/10th to 1/20th to certain organizations what was being charged to most of the rest of the infrastructure ... even during periods of draught and most of the rest of the infrastructure on water restrictions and rationing. part of the issue was that rice growing is an extremely water intensive operation. However, with certain organizations having access to quantities at far below market value ... growing rice represented the maximum return-on-investment (difference between the price they had to pay for growing rice and the revenue they could get for that rice). In effect they were being encouraged to use enormous amounts of water on an extremely water intensive activity ... even during periods of significant water rationing. The alternative might have been to grow a significantly less water intensive crop.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:29:27 -0600
greymaus writes:
Any big problems? (knowing that you have identified the casino fairly narrowly, (are there that many Indian owned casinos in Conn?)), I would understand that massive f***ups would not be mentioned.

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#11 The Pankian Metaphor

also, i believe it may have also been the first in the state ... which narrows it even further.

no, things went smoothly ... but there was a lot of anxiety during the period and a sense that adequate testing had been sacrificed. However, looking at the lost opportunity costs (the avg. profit they nominally make per 24hrs for days they aren't operating), six days turned out to be significant.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:02:35 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
This approach bothers me a lot. Eventually, if not sooner, all innovation is punished until nonexistence. Innovation requires a small time window w.r.t. reaction. Government controlled anything has to remove reacting to any stimulus for its policies to work. This is the problem with socialism and 100% removal of capitalism. Society stagnates.

the Boyd scenario is somewhat the lower/closer the decision is made, the greater agility and adaptability. the first approximation is that doing economic analysis to show that certain industries can only support a specific worker standard of living ... w/o subsidies is at least having informed decision making process. Creating a policy that encourages businesses in activities with economic reward below specific level to move to some other activity (possibly over 20 year period) still isn't really bad. Having environment where there is rigid top-down decision making usually is less adaptable and therefor frequently less competitive ... again the boyd scenario about us corporate structure in the 70s and 80s. misc. references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#120 atomic History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#29 Review of Steve McConnell's AFTER THE GOLD RUSH
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#45 A beautiful morning in AFM.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#16 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#59 Computer Naming Conventions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#38 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#33 Star Trek: TNG reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#21 MP cost effectiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#51 employee motivation & executive compensation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#27 The BASIC Variations
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#86 Organizations with two or more Managers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#3 Computerworld Article: Dress for Success?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor

on the other hand it could be done in such a way that benefits. there is the scenario that suggestion 100% unearned profit tax on the us automobile industry ... with the explanation that the US gov. had taken certain actions to allow the industry breathing room to remake themselves ... and they didn't appear to be following those assumptions. recent reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor

a different example is one of the countries on the other side of the pacific ... sometime (by at least the early 80s), they had made a determination that IT was going to be an extremely important and profitable part of world economy and they wanted to be the leader by something like 2010 or 2020 (as well as provide industries with a competitive advantage in almost every kind of operation). They established that every company should invest some percent (X) of their profits in IT ... and if they didn't, the gov. would take it in tax. so in the late 80s, you saw things like steel and ship building companies (from this country) investing heavily in IT startups in the US (and other places in the world). One such was in the late 80s, there was an announcement that one of these large heavy industry corporations was buying half of Oracle corporation. However, the next quarter, Oracle finances significantly improved and the deal was canceled (Oracle had signed an enterprise license for an extremely large number of seats with a large international corporation).

misc. past postings mentioning Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
other URLs from around the web mentioning Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:25:05 -0600
Joel C. Ewing wrote:
My impression of the PC clock is that it was never intended for any purpose other than maintaining wall clock time, and as such has appropriately low resolution. My other impression is that there is some Operating system involvement in maintaining its value on the PC: that the clock may run "slow" on a system that is totally maxed out or unable to service interrupts for an extended period. On the original S/360 introduced in 1964, I believe a System Timer, which also required periodic interrupt servicing, was used to track clock time and it had similar drift problems. I believe the hardware TOD clock was introduced with the following IBM S/370 architecture, so it has been around for at least 30 years.

360 clock was full word at location 80 in storage. low-end 360s tic'ed about at approx. 3mills. high-end 360s had high-resolution timer feature that tic approx. 13micros. the period of the clock was the same, high resolution clock tic'ed the lowest bit ... lower-resolution clock tic'ed one of the other bits.

the clock making transition would generate an external interrupt ... so could be used for things like time-slices (cp67 used it for maintaining wall-clock, interval timing, and time-slices).

370 went to register paradigm ... and three separate constructs, the tod clock, the clock comparator (interrupt when tod clock passed certain time), and timer ... which could be used for time-slices and/or cpu useage accounting. this lowered the software burden ... trying to make a single time construct serve multiple different purposes.

the other issue for the change was main memory contention ... since the 360 timer hardware had to get the memory bus to update location 80.

i had done some amount of work on cp67 as an undergraduate in the 60s, redoing the terminal support including adding ascii/tty terminal support and was trying to make the 2702 terminal controller do some stuff that it couldn't quite do (i.e. both automatic terminal recognition as well as automatic baud rate). somewhat as a result, the univ. started a project to build a clone controller (someplace there was an article that blame us for the pcm controller business)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#360pcm

the 360 channel interface was reverse engineered, a channel interface card was built and put in an Interdata/3 minicomputer programmed to emulate 2702 functions. one of the early debugging problems was attacking to the 360/67 channel and "red lighting" the 360/67 ... stopping the processor. Turns out that the high resolution timer tics and schedules an update of location 80 timer value, if the timer tics again before the previous update has happened, it treats it as a hardware error and stops the machine. It turns out that the channel interface card had signaled the channel to obtain the memory bus for transfer ... and needed to periodic interrupt the transfer to allow other access (like the timer) to the memory bus.

As to timers in other processors ... we were doing high-speed networking in the 80s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt

and were doing various things ... like I added RFC 1044 support to the standard mainframe tcp/ip product. at the time, the standard product would get about 44kbytes/sec aggregate sustained thruput with high pathlength overhead (full 3090 processor at 44kbytes/sec). In some tuning of RFC 1044 support at cray research ... between a cray and a 4341-clone ... we were getting 1mbyte/sec aggregate sustained using only a fraction of the 4341 processor.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#1044

we also had deployed our own high-speed backbone ... although when NSFNET backbone RFP was published (operational precursor to current internet), we weren't actually allowed to bid (although we were allowed to act as the technology redteam with alternative technology proposal). However, we did get a technology audit from NSF that concluded what we already had operational was at least five years ahead of all bid submissions for NSFNET backbone RFP. minor ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#38
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#12

one of the things we had done in our backbone implementation and deployment was rate-based pacing ... which we claimed was significant improvement over the windowing-based stuff for congestion control.

in fact, the month that the slow-start talk (windowing-based congestion control) was given at the IETF meeting ... the annual sigcomm proceedings had a paper how windowing-based congestion control was none stable in larger heterogeneous networks (for a number of reasons). The issue was that rate-based pacing required the availability of reasonable set of timer-functions (in order to implement "rate" construct ... i.e. activity per unit time).

A lot of the tcp/ip implementations in the period were on platforms that lacked any reasonable set of timer features ... and so therefor it was somewhat necessary for them to do a purely event-based paradigm ... rather being able to implement a time-based paradigm.

of course, it helped doing rate-based stuff with also having been heavily involved with dynamic adaptive resource management as an undergraduate in the 60s ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:50:03 -0600
greymaus writes:
Where in this system is the contribution from private autos.. I was amazed the last time I was in the US at the amount of roadbuilding going on.. The massive networks of roads around US cities are really private auto projects.. At what point from the cities would you start to count.. to consider that the highways are mainly for heavy truck use.?

the design and cost of the majority of the road systems are based on heavy truck mile-axle-load requirements. consumers have somewhat been encouraged to participate and make use of the infrastructure ... in part because the current infrastructure is being paid for by fuel use tax levied across all users of fuel (if consumers are using 99-plus percent of the fuel ... that gives an enormous base to spread the costs across).

I didn't say that the highways are mainly for heavy truck use ... i said that the design, cost, and maintenance are almost all drive by heavy truck (axle-load) useage

I don't know where you came up with highways are mainly for heavy truck use.

I have said that the design, cost, life-cycle, buidling, maintenance, aka ... nearly everything ... is driven by the number of heavy-truck axle-loads. The highway building and standards document i've frequently recently referenced state the highway design criteria is solely based on target number of heavy truck axle-loads ... that any use by consumer vehicles is immaterial; aka consumer vehicle use has no impact.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor

you appear to have misread what I have wrote.

If one conjectures there is a policy to have a subsidized extensive highway network with high heavy truck axle-load design point .... and that consumer vehicle use has little or no impact on such highway operation or design ... then it might be desirable to encourage lots of consumer vehicle use so that they are relatively complacent in paying possibly 99plus percent as a road use fuel tax ... as opposed to an infrastructure cost fee ... which might shift nearly the entire bill to the heavy trucking industry.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:32:51 -0600
greymaus writes:
One report on the French riots this year blamed the high degree of automation in the car plants there for the decline in the sort of jobs needed by socio-economic groups such as the rioters belong to.

so one might conjecture that you trade-off gov. advanced, pro-active economic planning that attempts to start 20 years earlier ... attempting to make the transition over a much longer & graceful period of time ... as opposed to relying on market forces which frequently may operate as discontinuites.

the issue with disruptive change is that business/commercial parties may have significant vested interest in maintaining the status quo as long as possible ... or at least possibly until they have retired.

individual gov. officials may have less vested interest in maintaining the status quo long after things should have adapted and changed; however what they decide may be incorrect based on insufficient or inaccurate data and/or lack of experience.

so sometimes there is trade-off between having vested interests with the skill and experience to make better decisions about change (but refuse to do it) and people w/o a lot of vested interest in the status quo and aren't adverse to change ... but don't necessarily have the skill and experience to make quality decisions about change.

part of the writeup by the census department wasn't about socio-economic grouping ... the correlation turned out to be with level of training and education ... as improving the ability to change and adapt. the socio-economic grouping may turn out to be a result of the difficulting in changing and adapting (and correlated with level of training and eduction) as opposed to the cause of any difficulting in being able to change and adapt (you may be in a socio-economic group because of inability to change and adapt ... as opposed to being unable to change and adapt because you are in any specific socio-economic group). The census report also had something about half of the highschool graduate aged people were functionally illiterate (very low level of education and skills) ... and the trend was that the percentage was increasing (in part because the complexity of society was increasing and therefor the level of skills and education, needed to be functionally literate, was increasing).

given the premise in the reference calling for 100% unearned profit tax
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#41 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#52 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#2 Internet today -- what's left for hobbiests
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#23 auto industry

the referenced census department report (from the early 90s) about half of jobs in manufacturing are subsidized ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor

might have included automobile manufacturing workers ... since according to the 100% unearned profit tax article ... the gov. was limiting competitive imports as a means of increasing/subsidizing the automobile industry profits ... which the industry was to turn around and use to remake itself. The point of the 100% unearned profit tax article was that the industry wasn't using the increased industry profits to remake itself into more agile and competitive operation. It wasn't until almost 15 years later that there was even the C4 effort billed as remaking the industry to be more competitive
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#14 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#41 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#43 Reason Japanese cars are assembled in the US (was Re: American bigotry)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#44 IBM 610 workstation computer

and that was approx. 15 years ago.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Taxes

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Taxes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:25:55 -0600
Charles Richmond writes:
I *know* that I had a damn good programming job during the Clinton years. And I know that job went to India or China.

the various census reports in the early 90s based on the 1990 census indicated that the jobs were likely going in any case. I remember being in HK in the early 90s and reading a newspaper article that did somewhat of a competitive analysis of the ability of India in the outsourcing market vis-a-vis the Chinese province right across from HK.

Part of the early 90s reports said that half of all technical Phd graduates from cal. institutions were foreign born and had some probability of returning home at some point in the future. What happened was the presence of all those foreign born technical experts helped sustain the internet boom that took off in the later half of 1990s. That boom created quite a strain on dataprocessing skill base.

It also happened to correspond with a major dataprocessing project bubble involving Y2K remediation of core legacy business processes. Since a lot of the dataprocessing skill base was being siphoned off to the internet boom, many corporations were forced into outsourcing the y2k remediation of their core business processes. At the time, a lot of industry viewed it as not very attractive career track ... since it had a specific end (and the internet explosion was obviously going to go on forever).

The issue was then that the internet boom faltered soon after the y2k remediation projects finished. You now had a bunch of internet gurus competing for jobs with people that had worked on y2k remediation ... and a lot of these jobs were associated with the long term core business processes (which had been around before the internet boom, around during the internet boom, and around long after the internet boom). Who had a lot of the skills to deal with these long term core business process systems? ... the companies in India and China that had earlier taken the Y2K remediation work (that lots of people weren't interested in). The business relationships built up as part of Y2k remediation projects (as well as skills acquired) served these outsourcing companies well afterwards (helping accelerate a lot of other outsourcing).

The other point made was that the half of the skill base that had contributed to making the internet boom possible (i.e. the foreign born technical experts) ... where now finding that returning home was starting to look a lot more attractive ... aka whole industry activities were moving out of the country.

In the early 90s when we were doing some technical recruiting at cal. univ., we were finding that the ONLY 4.0 students were from foreign born countries. In the mid-90s, I saw stories about a significant number of these foreign born students were on gov. scholorships (from their native country) and that they were expected to graduate (preferrably w/4.0), enter various critically identified industry jobs ... and after a period of 5-10 years ... return home, bringing skills back with them. I was told about some areas in major us corporations that had whole departments (in specific areas, one such cited was optics; aka optical computing, fiber-optics, lasers, etc) totally staffed by foreign born individuals that had been on (their native gov.) funded scholarships and expected to return home at some point.

I got bits and pieces recently of somebody reporting economic analysis (on Bloomberg?) that included some numbers about current engineers/technical graduates. The numbers that I believe were China was now graduating something like 400,000, Russia (I may have gotten that wrong, possibly it was India instead) was now graduating something like 300,000 and US was currently graduating only something like 20,000.

the issue for possibly at least the last 20 years wasn't if it would happen, but when. the competition created by the internet boom and y2k remediation (happening concurrently) helped make it sooner rather than later (since companies were being forced to ship y2k remediation work, for core business processes, overseas, in part because so much of the us computer skills were being siphoned off into the internet boom; this in turn laid in place numerous outsourcing business relationships ... that should have otherwise taken much longer to evolve).

past postings commenting about outsourcing y2k remediation work laying much of the business groundwork for continuing outsourcing activity.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#57 OT: The dynamics of the Indian IT industry
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#56 Offshore IT ... again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#2 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#16 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#24 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#29 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#32 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#37 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#38 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#42 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#43 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#50 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#52 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#18 IT jobs move to India
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#19 IT jobs move to India
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#14 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#18 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#39 Who said "The Mainframe is dead"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#5 I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain the Middle East to you
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#18 Low Bar for High School Students Threatens Tech Sector
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#22 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#30 Many engineers lack even a four-year degree
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#30 I am an ageing techy, expert on everything. Let me explain the
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#52 360 longevity, was RISCs too close to hardware?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#66 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005.html#20 I told you ... everybody is going to Dalian,China
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#16 Outsourcing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#16 Is a Hurricane about to hit IBM ?

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:04:09 -0600
Shmuel Metz , Seymour J. wrote:
The interval timer caused interference with memory accesses, which was more of a problem for I/O channels than for the CPU. It was an autodecrement word in low storage, and caused an interrupt when it hit zero. The largest possible interval was a matter of hours, so OS/360 used something called the 6-hour pseudo clock to deal with wraparound issues.

somewhat idle observation about memory contention ... but the 360/65 and 360/67 were essentially the same hardware with dynamic address translation (DAT) box added to the 360/67. The 360/67 could be run with plain vanilla os/360 operating system (w/o activating DAT) and it appeared to act in all respects like a 360/65.

the 360/67 multiprocessor was a different animal. it had provisions for multi-ported memory (processors and i/o access concurrently to memory). It also had a "channel controller" ... allowing all processors to access all channels ... something not seen again until 3081 with 370/xa.

the multi-ported hardware introduced about a 10percent additional memory access latency (but reduced memory contention). a 360/67 "half-duplex" running purely compute bound application ... had a "MIP" rate that was about ten percent less than a "simplex" 360/67 (or 360/65).

However, cambridge science center
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech

had an opportunity to replace a 360/67 "simplex" with a 360/67 "half-duplex" ... running the identical same software, workload, and configuration. The "half-duplex" had approximately 20 precent higher processor thruput than the "simplex". This would appear to imply that on a standard 360 (65 or 67) that I/O memory contention could have possibly 30 percent impact on processor thruput (aka the "half-duplex" with no memory contention was nominally ten percent slower than simplex ... but under normal i/o load and memory contention, memory contention appeared to have slowed down a "simplex" processor until it was approx. 20% slower than "half-duplex" ... rather than 10% faster).

TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:24:44 -0600
for a detail description of architecture operations ... the reference is principles of operation
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/CCONTENTS?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DN=SA22-7832-03&DT=2004050412120

section 4.6 timing
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/4.6?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822

section 4.6.1 time-of-day clock
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/4.6.1?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822

section 4.6.1.1 format
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/4.6.1.1?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822&CASE=

section 4.6.1.4 setting and inspecting the clock (including some description of UTC)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/4.6.1.4?SHELF=EZ2HW125&DT=19970613131822&CASE=

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:21:41 -0600
greymaus writes:
My point, and what I was trying to say, is that costs should be proportional to use..

and my point is that "prices" should be proportional to costs. if you have "prices" significantly different than costs you can be encouraging extremely bad/poor economic behavior. If it costs $2 to grow something in a greenhouse next door and it costs .25 to grow the same something in San Janquine valley ... and the price of shipping something from San Janquine valley to your location is .25 ... then you might have somebody selling that something in your local area for .75.

this would be poor economics if the fully loaded infrastructure costs to transport the something from San Janquine valley to your location is $5 (the overall infrastructure would have to cover the difference in some kind of subsidy in support of bad/poor economic behavior).

another case might be corporations being encouraged to grow rice during a draught period when everybody else is having their water rationed.

the fully loaded cost of a consumer vehicle using the highway is negligable ... other than possibly apportioning some small fraction of the original build costs of the highway. the fully loaded costs of a heavy truck using a highway is enormous ... since the whole highway design, build costs, and depreciation (wear & tear) is totally related to the number of heavy truck axle loads. in this scenario is that the cost of a heavy truck using a highway is enormously larger than the cost of a consumer vehicle using the highway. however, the road use fuel tax method results in only a trivial differentiation between consumer vehicle use and heavy truck use.

the closer corollary is flat-rate pricing ... say two people submit jobs to be run in dataprocessing service ... one job consumes a few seconds of processor time, no i/o, no disk space ... the other job consumers days of processor time, enormous amounts of i/o, and huge disk resources. since they both have used the system by submitting jobs, a flat-rate pricing would charge both of the jobs exactly the same.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:29:17 -0600
greymaus writes:
Reports from Germany are that second generation Turks are becoming alienated from German society .. retreating into Turkish ghettos.. Some only able to speak Turkish.. Must enquire further. Not a good development, if it proves to be true. Same thing happening among the Moroccan and Algerian immigrants in France.. Again, bad direction.

the "guest worker" issues in various parts of Europe date back at least two decades (at least based on remembering business trips and seeing articles in the local press). I remember being on a business trip in Zurich 10-15 years ago and they had a large population of guest workers from a country that had just won the world cup. there were large celebrations that night which somewhat then contributed to number of guest worker articles in the press.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:45:30 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
This method bothers me. It doesn't include a consumer's part of the cost. I may never use a road but I sure as hell use the products that are trucked on that road. To dump the costs of development and maintenance on the truckers seems to be an inefficient way of funding the infrastructure. It implies that the payments of these costs have to filther through more hands (trucker->depot->distributor->retailer->consumer->garbage).

the issue is that if an infrastructure has enormously hidden subsidies ... consumers might not make valid informed economic buying decisions. The transportion of goods increase their costs ... if those costs aren't directly exposed ... people may be encouraged to consume significant amounts of goods with enormous (hidden) transportation costs.

It is possible that a certain level of transportion infrastructure is in the national interest ... not just for invidiual consumers ... and therefor should be subsidized. However, roads are designed, built, and maintained based on the number of heavy truck axle-loads.

Completely hiding the true subsidized costs ... might encourage consumers to make economic buying decisions that increase the number of heavy truck axle-loads by a factor of ten or hundred times more than what was deamed necessary in the national interest. This could lead to enormous and unnecessary expediture of resources ... far in excess of what had been anticipated in any original policy planning decision.

If heavy trucking had to pay fully loaded infrastructure represented by their mile-axle-load activity ... the price of goods they transport would then be increased. then consumers would be better able to make informed buying decisions. this would be market forces at work and potentially result in more optimimal use of resources. when true infrastructure costs are hidden and not exposed ... then the efficiency of market forces to optimally utilize resources can be significantly subverted.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:56:43 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
Now learn where the monies of the auto makers are going. They cannot afford R&D. The US can't afford R&D for the same reasons. The US doesn't spend most of their money on war; they spend the most money on dying people. According to the people I heard on CSPAN last night, it's a trillion US dollars/year.

the comptroller general talk had something about there being enormous increases in gov. spending as a percent of gnp over the past 50 years ... however the defense budget as percent of gnp is the same as it was 50 years ago.
http://www.gao.gov/cghome/nat408/index.html America's Fiscal Future

there was some other article for long-existing US steel companies ... that something like 50percent of their current costs come from retirement benefits that they are now paying. this somewhat comes from the long years of NOT having fully funded retirement plans (rather than fully contributing during the years that the retirement obligation were incurred, leave it to paying out of future operating revenue). Some number of companies are declaring backruptcy just to get out from under the enormous retirement benefits ... that they had dutifully avoided fully funding for so many years (effectly transferring the burden to the gov).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:00:40 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
Yes. However, there are applications where this conservatism is the ideal method; military is an example. You cannot have the strategy for winning the war (I think I'm using the correct term) decided at the grunt level. hmm...Now I've just mixed me all up. I may actually be learning this stuff.

Boyd scenario is that the overall strategic objectives are decided at the top and the low-level tactical decisions are made as low as possible (in part, how to actually go about doing something). The heavy, top-down structure makes both the strategic and any local, tactical decisions at the top.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:05:39 -0600
I remember various visits to Sweden and the apparent dichotomy faced by gov. liqueur stores. The gov. had taken over the selling of liqueur and imposed enormouse taxes to discourage consumption (as national policy?). However, the gov. liqueur stores were also running TV advertisements for their products.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:09:46 -0600
"Tim Shoppa" writes:
Interesting. So the hardware clock is actual ticks since the beginning of the epoch, and the programmer is responsible for adding in leap seconds etc.

i got to spend 3 months on a timer "task force" with others in the early 70s as part of defining 370 clock. the two major discussions that i remember were

1) the epoch was original stated as being the start of the century ... so was the time since 1jan1990 or 1jan1990

2) what to do about leap seconds.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:49:48 -0600
oops, finger slip

should have been: 1jan1900 or 1jan1901

the problem with the original definition is that most people thot that the century began 1jan1900 ... when it actually began 1jan1991. so do you enforce the original definition or just go with the public.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:16:14 -0600
lets say you have a heavily loaded highway infrastructure that was built for a specific number of heavy truck axle-loads; i.e. the highway design specifications say that highways are designed and have lifetimes based purely on the number of heavy truck axle-loads. futhermore, consumer vehicle use has no impact on the design, wear and tear, lifetime, etc of the highway.

Nominally "use" based pricing involves an assumption that "use" is proportional to cost/overhead related to the use. The assumption is not valid if there is strong bi-model distribution of use ... where majority of "use" has nearly zero cost and the other major distribution "use" involves effectively all of the cost. A nominal objective is to have the total revenue cover the total costs.

if longhaul goods appear cheaper than local goods (possibly because of the heavy transportation subsidy), consumers could decide to increase their purchase of distance goods by a factor of 100 (because the heavy subsidy is distorting efficiency of market forces). Increasing the purchase of distance goods by a factor of 100 could increase the number of heavy truck axle-loads by a factor of one hundred. Increasing the number of heavy truck axle-loads by a factor of one hundred can result in the road wearing out 100 times faster (than possibly the original subsidy decision had budgeted for).

in the current subsidy infrastructure, the primary way of increasing the subsidy by 100 times is by encouraging consumer vehicle traffic to increase 100 times (resulting in consumer vehicles using 100 times more fuel and paying 100 times more road use fuel tax). since consumer vehicle use of the highway is stated as having negligable effect on the highway ... nearly all consumer vehicle use and the related road use fule tax for consumer vehicle use is pure revenue (having neglible effect on highway lifetime, maintenance, etc costs at all).

Therefor the total amount of the revenue from consumer vehicle use of the infrastructure (which has neglible cost impact on that infrastructure) can be used to offset the cost impact attributed to the number of heavy truck axle-loads (which is the primary factor/thing that affects use-cost for highway design, maintenance, and lifetime).

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#2 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#24 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: TOD Clock the same as the BIOS clock in PCs?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:24:38 -0600
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
finger slip

1jan1990 or 1jan1991

the problem with the original definition is that most people thot that the century began 1jan1990 ... when it actually began 1jan1991. so do you enforce the original definition or just go with the public.


manage two different finger slips

1jan1900 or 1jan1901

the problem with the original definition is that most people thot that the century began 1jan1900 ... when it actually began 1jan1901. so do you enforce the original definition or just go with the public.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:52:04 -0600
Walter Bushell writes:
But the cost to consumers would be distributed by how much shipping they use and not by how much driving they do. It would mean farming in NY state would be much more attractive relative to California.

Fair cost accounting is necessary for free markets to behave properly. Not charging the damage to the roads by trucking to the truckers damages the railroads, and takes money out of people who drive.


the other way of looking at it is that the market derives its efficiency from supposedly being a dynamic adaptive feedback system.

i had done a lot of dynamic adaptive feedback systems as an undergraduate in the 60s ... my implementations being picked up and shipped in products. some of the implementation was dropped in the morphing from 360s to 370s in the early 70s ... but a couple years later I was allowed to reduce it as separate Resource Manager product ... the 30th ann. of the "blue letter" announcement coming up on May 11th.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare

so a big part of a dynamic adaptive feedback systems is

1) the decisions are based on accurate information (requirement for good metrics and instrumentation)

2) effective control mechanisms.

The efficiency of the market feedback control system is, in part, based on what the market (consumers frequently, but not necessarily exclusively) are willing to pay (as an effective control merchanism, from #2 above). The problem is that subsidies can significantly distort the accuracy of the information (true, fully loaded infrastructure costs ... as opposed to some price that may have little or nothing to do with fully loaded infrastructure costs).

So not charging the fully loaded price ... can significantly skew the market behavior as well as the efficiency of the market paradigm.

A trivial example goes back to one of the opening examples about provisions in the tax code for certain types of tax-free bonds i.e. like in support of miniciple water purification plant. There becomes a gov. policy that the building of miniciple water purification plants should be encouraged for the good of the community and nation. Maing the bonds for building miniciple water purification plants mean that the local district doesn't have to pay as much to attract investment (reducing the cost to build the plants).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#43 The Pankian Metaphor

For a little drift from dynamic adaptive feedback market forces ... you can have quiet a bit of confusion in legislative bodies when they have difficulty in reconciling

1) policies encouraging the building of water treatment plants through the provisions for tax-free bonds (lowering the cost and overhead to attract investment for the building of the miniciple water treatment plant)

2) policies where everybody should pay minimum (same or larger) percentage tax on earned income (regardless of the source of the income).

Back to dynamic adaptive feedback market forces ... the market as a dynamic adaptive feedback system can have a very short period (possibly because lots of people have difficulty looking ahead and/or they lack any long term memory ability).

Subsidies can adversely affect the efficiency of dynamic adaptive feedback market by distorting the information (aka prices) that decisions are based on (in effect, efficiency of the market is based on prices having something to do with the associated fully loaded infrastructure costs).

However, dynamic adaptive feedback market .... even with accurate data may result in less than optimal results if the window that it operates over is too small.

Part of calibrating the resource manager was a set of couple thousand automated benchmarks that took three months elapsed time to run.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bench

After the initial thousand or so benchmarks (large variations in configurations, workloads, and control functions), the remaining benchmark characteristics were under the control of a variation of the performance predictor (implemented in APL).

One of the things that the performance predictor implementation was programmed for was "hill climbing" algorithm that basically varied some number of benchmark characteristics looking for optimal solutions. A well recognized characteristic of such a methodology, is that if you take into account too small a scope ... you may find the top of a local hill (i.e. local optimal solution) ... but fail to find the top of the highest hill (global optimal).

sometimes, gov. polices can be characterized as totally distorting information (possibly via subsidies) used by the market to arrive at solution ... resulting in totally undesired outcomes. other times, gov. policies may skew the information used by the market to assist it in arriving a more optimal (global) solution ... by skewing the market information (subsidies, tax credits, etc) based on larger scope (time) calculations than the market normally operates with.

One might postulate that the example of the country insisting that all major companies invest at least X percent of their profits in IT innovation (or the gov. would take it as taxes) might be example at attempting the later.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#17 The Pankian Metaphor

misc. past posts mentioning the performance predictor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#46 Withdrawal Announcement 901-218 - No More 'small machines'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#64 ... the need for a Museum of Computer Software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#45 cp/67 addenda (cross-post warning)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#28 Origin of XAUTOLOG (x-post)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#15 Disk capacity and backup solutions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#29 Sun researchers: Computers do bad math ;)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#42 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic constants]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#31 capacity planning: art, science or magic?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#10 Multi-processor timing issue
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#1 Self restarting property of RTOS-How it works?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#6 [Lit.] Buffer overruns
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#33 Thou shalt have no other gods before the ANSI C standard
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#48 Secure design
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#1 Single System Image questions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#15 Exceptions at basic block boundaries
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#12 Performance and Capacity Planning
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005k.html#17 More on garbage collection
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#30 auto reIPL
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#34 Not enough parallelism in programming
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#15 {SPAM?} Re: Expanded Storage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#17 {SPAM?} Re: Expanded Storage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#22 A very basic question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#30 A very basic question

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:36:33 -0600
greymaus writes:
Last time I was in the States, in Washington (!), I asked one of the locals how far one would have to drive to see real countryside... He said, 40-50 miles, inside that big fed outfits (Fort Meade).. country estates, stud farms... Airports.. I remember vegetable farms on Staten Island, any there now?. All based on cheap transport.

transportation has gotten significantly less expensive than it was many years ago. for a large physically distributed country ... overcoming distance sensitive issues is good policy.

there are trade-offs. some of the cheap transport can because it has actually gotten cheaper and less expensive.

However, some may appear to be less cheaper than it actually is. My original post on this subject
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#42 The Pankian Metaphor

referenced the (state of cal. transportation) documents (that claimed to be industry standard) for the criteria for building highways ... aka criteria for building highways is based on the number of planned heavy truck axle-loads ... and that considerations like normal consumer and other light vehicle use has no impact.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel announces "CT" aka

subsequent posts proposed some methodologies for estimating the quantitive effects (i.e. the basis for the qualitative factors are somewhat established in the highway design documents) ... and some guesses for the range of possible values (and suggestions for obtaining more exact values for the calculations)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor

for a little drift, in the past couple years that has been a number of articles about the highway infrastructure in Wash DC (as oppsed to the state of washington) ... that maintenance on significant portions of the highway infrastructure was deferred for a large number of years. As a result, certain parts of the highway infrastructure is now in danger of failing ... like some of the bridges; regular application of paint was deferred so now some of the structural members may bave been allowed to nearly rust through. As a result there is some possibility that some of the existing structures may have to be torn down and replaced.

this may have analogies to other varieties of funding deferrals ... like choosing to not have fully funded pension plans ... and carrying pension payments out of existing operating revenue
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#27 The Pankian Metaphor

a similar but different story was in the news a couple years ago, the utility (gas and electricity) company in the state of cal. was getting an allowance from the state public utilities company (as part of what they were allowed to charge customers) for cutting back brush and tree limbs around power poles. the company had gotten into the habit over a period of years of taken the allocated amount and paying it to executives in the form of bonuses. then came a series of storms with higher than recently experienced winds. There was a high incidence of power outages because of wind blowing limbs and taking out power lines. Some number of these events, in turn, resulted in fires and other types of things associated with electrocutions.

various past postings mentioning other types of deferring activities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#7 Big Brother -- Re: National IDs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#41 TGV in the USA?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#7 OT Global warming
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#28 Penn Central RR computer system failure?

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:54:01 -0600
greymaus writes:
Happening all over. Even in well managed companys, a combination of the Internet bubble, and present low interest rates are causing problems. Why, even some accounting companys are in trouble..

however, the severity of the problems are significantly different for companies (and their employees) that have fully funded pension plans ... vis-a-vis industries that continued the practice of paying pensions (at least partially) out of existing operating revenues.

the fully funded pension plans have corporations depositing money over the years that the obligation is created (i.e. as part of the person working). companies w/o fully funded pension plans are paying for pensions out of existing operating revenues. This can effectively make current earnings look better and defers the obligation to later time. If the amount of earnings and number of retirees is steady state function over long period of time ... there can be little difference between fully funded pension plans and non-fully funded pension plans. However, most industries are seeing a significant increases in number of people in the pension plans (compared to when a lot of these plans were originally created). In such a situation, non-fully funded plans create significantly deffered obligations (making current profit look much better than it actually is ... and moving the problem for others to deal with a couple decades down the road). In the past, the motivation for executives making such decision was to significantly increase their personal bonus ... since there are no corrective forces in most executive bonus plans to take into consideration significant problems that they may have created that don't come to light until decades later. this is analogous to the discussion regarding scope of dynamic adaptive feedback control mechanisms ... if the scope (time period) is too short, the market can arrive at extraordinarily non-optimal solutions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#34 The Pankina Metaphor

anyway, for the heck of it ... a couple random URLs from search engine looking for the phrase fully funded pension plan
http://www.cppib.ca/why/cpp/index.html
http://www.ucalgary.ca/HR/uapp/info.html

there is a big difference between making good/bad decisions regarding investment for fully funded pension plan ... and companies that are paying for current pensions out of current operating revenue.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Why are smart cards so dumb?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why are smart cards so dumb?
Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:43:47 -0600
davids writes:
Seriously, why does it seem that all of the smart cards I've looked at are missing the most incredibly obvious and essential features? Can it be that what I need or want is so totally different from what everyone else needs or wants?

smart cards were largely the invention of the 1980s ... technology had miniturized computing chips to the point that they could be really portable (much more than than the portable PCs of the era), but the technology for computing input/output was still not there (aka the portable PCs of the era). as a result, smartcards had a big standardization phase ... where international standards were passed so that there would be some expectation of interoperability between fixed input/output stations/terminals and the portable computing devices ("smartcards").

during this period various govs. and industries invested large billions in the technology. however, because the products could really come to fruition ... technology advanced and you could actually get real portable computing with its own associated input/output ... in the form of various PDAs and cellphones. This pretty much eliminated the original target market.

since then, there has been lots of effort to come up with market niche uses that could hopefully recoup at least some of the original investment billions.

part of the issue is that the smartcard opportunities are pretty much capped at the top with the PDA and cellphones ... given significant amount of memory and processing capability ... would a consumer prefer to have it in a form factor with its own input/output capability (pda, cellphone, etc) ... or a mute, dumb, and deaf device that requires you to search for some station to make it useful.

so that pretty much just leaves the extremely low-end and various extremely specialized market niches driven by smartcard form factor. even some of the specialized market niches (like point-of-sale payments) that appeared to continue perpetrate the original 80s design point ... may also now be falling to cellphones and PDAs

With the advances in wireless communication ... all of the requirements for physical form factor interoperability with things like point-of-sale terminals is disappearing (again, one of the few market niches left over from the 80s smartcard market assumptions).

some of this we started looking at in the mid-90s with the aads chip strawman ... predicting (physical) form factor requirements were rapidly disappearing and with it many of the remaining smartcard specific market niches (contributed by the advances in portable input/output capability eliminating the original target market)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#straw AADS strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm1 AADS strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm2 AADS strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm3 AADS strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm4 AADS strawman

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Why are smart cards so dumb?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why are smart cards so dumb?
Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:05:55 -0600
davids writes:
1) The ability to store an object on the card, along with an object identifier, version, and signature. The smart card should only allow the object to be replaced by an object with the same identifier, later version, and signed by the same key (or key signed by same cert).

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#37 Why are smart cards so dumb?

one of the few remaining market niches left for smartcards is authentication. from the 3-factor authentication paradigm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#3factor
something you have
something you know
something you are


the generic nature of tokens (including those in smartcard form factors) is a unique something you have. There is some mechanism for prooving that you have a unique, registered physical object. One such methodology involves public/private key technology. The token is certified as uniquely containing a specific public/private key pair. The chip then uses the (certified unique) private key to perform a digital signature. The relying party can validate the digital signature with the corresponding, registered public key. If the digital signature correctly validates with the corresponding public key, the relying party can assume that the party possesses the corresponding physical object.

in this scenario, you may be able to replace a shared-secret based paradigm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#secret

that has registered passwords (as something you know authentication) with the registration of a public key that is certified to be associated with a specific physical object (for something you have authentication). the improvement is that shared-secret infrastructure is extremely vulnerable to numeruous kinds of evesdropping and secruity breaches intended for replay attacks (i.e. obtaining the shared-secret allows the attacker to be correctly authenticated and impersonate).

This methodology can also be applied to physical door access ... creating a digital signature as proof of possessing the specific physical object (where the physical object is certified as uniquely containing the private key that generates the digital signature ... that in turn, is validated with the registered public key).

As a pure something you have authentication mechanism, nothing more is required.

Some of the authentication tokens (regardless of form factor) may also require a PIN (aka something you know) authentication as a countermeasure to lost/stolen token. This supposedly provides higher integrity because multi-factor authentication is involved (i.e. both the token something you are and PIN something you know authentication). Conversely the token as a physical something you have authentication is countermeasure to various kinds of electronic (or otherwise) evesdropping threats against "somthing you know" authentication.

Note there is an implicit assumption regarding multi-factor authentication having higher integrity which involves the different factors being subject to different threats and vulnerabilities. However, there have been instances in the past involving multi-factor authentication infrastructures ... where technology evolved and the different factors became subject to common, identical exploit/vulnerability (negating implicit integrity assumptions about multi-factor authentication being "higher" or "better").

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Why are smart cards so dumb?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why are smart cards so dumb?
Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:30:49 -0600
Andreas Jellinghaus writes:
germany is about to create new health insurance smart cards for each citizen (which will be more or less dumb cards), and new health professional cards with crypto functionalty.

some people insisted that emergency data can be stored on each patients card. and then some people decided that this data should be only readable with a heal professionals card. that requires card to card authentication.

what a stupid idea. sure, it is complex, a special feature, can be implemented and companies will make lots of money for that features.


ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#37 Why are smart cards so dumb?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#38 Why are smart cards so dumb?

we did some consulting in the early 90s for one of the gov. agencies that had been instrumental in a lot of smartcard technology development ... they were looking at moving technology into the commercial marketplace (it turns out there was a lot of new gov. activity that went on in the early 90s attempting commercial "technology transfer").

one of the efforts was large technology transfer open houses (not just involving smartcard technology) ... one was targeted at health care and medical industry.

one of the scenarios was large memory smartcards with enormous amounts of personnel medical history that could be used by emergency medical personnel.

the first issue was that anything but really trivial data ... isn't really usable by emergency medical personnel (in the field at scenes of accidents, etc). it turns out, that isn't their job ... they typically don't have the time to read through a couple hundred pages of medical history.

the next issue, for anything of more than extremely trivial nature, emergency medical personnel typically are wired for online, realtime communication with some established medical facility (even back then). any significant amount of medical information wouldn't be used by the emergency medical ... but evaluated by the staff at the medical facility ... who, in turn, authorize the emergency medical personnel on the spot to perform certain procedures.

eventually it came down to an online system with all the necessary privacy and access controls ... what the person carried was some sort of database index mechanism (bar-code, account number, etc) and possibly some counter-counterfeiting mechanism (say token with public key and a private key ... where the public key might be registered and disclosable by the token ... and the value of the public key could also be used as an index value). the proof of person or proof of token is electronically transmitted to the medical facility ... and the proper medical personnel use it to for gaining access to the appropriate medical records.

Except for some extremely trivial scenarios ... all the scenarios claiming that the duplicate medical records in the token could be used when the online infrastructure failed ... involved scenarios where the medical records could provied little or no benefit ... like when the emergency medical team's online access to the medical facility was not operational (in nearly one hundred percent of such cases, the emergency medical team also wouldn't have the equipment and/or skills to deal with any extensive medical records in a token).

so the next scenario was a smartcard for doctors to carry around lots of the schedule and other activity information. since PDA technology was just starting to emerge at the time ... it was pointed out that PDA would offer significant more value to a doctor than a deaf, dumb, and mute smartcard. the argument became more pronounced as the feature/function of PDAs (and smart cellphones) increase ... including be able to provide continuous, online, wireless connectivity to the hospital infrastructure.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Why are smart cards so dumb?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why are smart cards so dumb?
Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:24:32 -0600
Andreas Jellinghaus writes:
also if you want high security, you dictate that a pin must be entered on a class 3 reader (with pinpad) and that pin is only valid for a single operation. this does already exist and works quite well for security. a led does not help very much I think.

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#37 Why are smart cards so dumb?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#38 Why are smart cards so dumb?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#39 Why are smart cards so dumb?

this is the eu finread standard scenario ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#finread

in the financial scenario ... it basically required the it was a certified pin entry device (low probability that pin is evesdropped and/or trojan reproducing a fraudulently entered pin) ... but also that the value of the transaction displayed is actually the same value that is being aggreed to.

one of the issues in the parameterised risk management scenario (somewhat related to the recent scenario about RSA adaptive authentication) ... is that while the EU finread standard specifies they physical characteristics of a EU finread terminal implementation .... it doesn't actually provide for proof that an EU finread terminal was actually used for any specific operation.

the x9a10 financial standards working group was given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastrucutre for ALL retail payments (not just internet, not just point-of-sale, not just credit, ALL) ... in the work on x9.59 financial standard
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#x959

the body of the standard specifies the format for an authenticated transaction. there was a lot of work done on the authentication of each transaction by the originator of the transaction (consumer in a point-of-sale or internet transaction).

however, a lot of thought went into the standard that additional authentication could also be added to the transaction ... like the terminal environment that was involved in the transaction could also apply its authentication. the dynamic adaptive parameterised risk management could then evaluate the authenticate of the orginator of the transaction as well as the environment the transaction occured in.

note that some of the terminal/smartcard ambiquity is eliminated if the consumer uses a cellphone/PDA ... where their privately owned display is used to display the value of the transactions ... as well as their privately owned entry device is used for the entry of a PIN (or possibly biometric) ... aka a lot of effort was put into the standard to not make any assumptions about particular environments and form factors that would be used for doing a x9.59 transaction (aka form factor agnostic).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:26:03 -0600
greymaus writes:
That depends on how plentiful food is. Do we provide water for swimming pools, or for food?.

as far as i know, during this period, the golf courses paid full price for their water as well as subject to various water rationing ... some number of the golf courses i'm aware of got extremely "brown".

the issue with the rice growing ... wasn't that it was for food ... but the subsidy extremely skewed market forces especially towards a food that was extremely water intensive/extravagant compared to some other possible food choices

some discusion in this thread about subsidies skewing the effectiveness of market forces
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#34 The Pankian Metaphor

in theory, if gov. policy wanted to optimize/skew market forces to using water for growing food they should have also tried to bias things to less water intensive food growing.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Old PCs--environmental hazard

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Old PCs--environmental hazard
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:19:07 -0600
"Dennis Ritchie" writes:
As for offices, our older medical insurance cards (thinner than credit cards) worked OK. We spent an evening examining the stuff in the NJ Bell local outpost. One prize, looked at but not stolen, was a technician's manual for payphones. Back when pay phones were more common and a cash source, stolen keys were also more common. The manual disclosed that high-risk phones could be equipped with a "key seizer" that trapped any key used in it.

at the science center
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech

i use to be in the habit of just going over the top thru the false ceiling

however one weekend i had been at it more than 24hrs straight in the machine room. i ran into a problem and needed to get a backup tape to restore some information. for some reason the internal office (inside the machine room) that was being used for tape library had the door locked. i was feeling a little tired and cranky, so i just kicked the door (once). it was solid wood commerical door with commercial hardware ... however the grain ran straight horizontal from top to bottom and just split along the grain. turns out that the reason the door was locked was because they had moved out all the tapes and moved in all the HR records. i eventually found all the tapes moved someplace else.

they moved the door to a science center conference area and laid across two file cabinets for use as a table ... and a reminder to me that i shouldn't go around kicking in doors.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:56:55 -0600
Chris Mason wrote:
Eric,

Similar but not identical.

A REP card belongs to the days when you had a 2540 card reader/punch connected to your machine in the good old days of the 360 and 360 GT (aka 370).

You submitted the compile job and went off to the coffee lounge. When you came back the object deck was in the card punch stacker. You wrapped it in a "link and go" job and tried it. One you had analysed the dump, you saw that you had made just one most trivial mistake. Rather than go though that long compile job again, you went over to the 029 card punch and "fixed up" the error with a REP card, slipped the card into the object deck just before the END card - or RLD cards - and tried again.


my first student programming job was to reimplement 1401 MPIO program on 360/30 ... which was unit record<->tape front end for 709 (the 360/30 had hardware 1401 emulation mode and the original MPIO program could have been run directly ... after the 30 replaced the 1401).

after about two months, i had 2000 statement assembler program. i got to invent and implement my own tasking monitor, interrupt handlers, device drivers, dynamic storage management, etc. it took 30 minutes elapsed time to assemble my 2000 card assembler program. Before i learned about "REP" cards, i had learned how to read the "hex" punch holes in the TXT cards and could fan a "binary" text deck, pick-out the TXT card for the storage area (reading the hex punch codes in the TXT storage address field) and multi-punch correction into "duplicated" TXT cards on 026 card punch (aka binary patch)

i added conditional assembly statements where the same source instead of generating a totally stand-alone monitor would generate code that would run under os/360 with open/close, get/put, and DCB statements. With conditional assembly set, it would assemble five DCB macros ... which were particularly difficult for os/360 (circa release 6) on the 64kbyte 360/30. You could recognize from the light pattern on the 30 front panel when the assembler was processing a DCB macro ... each one taken approximately six minutes to process aka the os/360 flavor with DCB macros took approx. an extra 30 minutes to assemble (a total of hour elapsed time).

misc. past posts about MPIO and 12-2-9 TXT and REP cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#4 1401 overlap instructions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#14 IBM Model Numbers (was: First video terminal?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#28 Is anybody out there still writting BAL 370.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#31 Is anybody out there still writting BAL 370.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005c.html#54 12-2-9 REP & 47F0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#52 Software for IBM 360/30
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#17 IBM 610 workstation computer

Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:07:36 -0600
Ed Gould wrote:
Sometime in the past there was an option to use rep cards as input to the linkage editor (now called Binder). The reports on here seem to indicate that these rep cards are no longer valid . The rep cards as you spoke are for amaspzap (like you said) . Two different IBM programs.

There seems to be conjecture that it was an early OS (MVT/MVT) that accommodated them. And in some past time was taken out of the OS.


os/360 PCP supported REP cards ... but i first encountered them in BPS ... aka basic programming system ... which was a purely card based infrastructure for 360 ... all software and programs were on cards (although you could play some games with BPS cards as card images on tape and boot/ipl the card images from tape rather than from real cards). Some number of stand alone card programs are out of BPS infrastructure.

misc. past post mentioning BPS ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#15 cp disk story
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#9 ** Old Vintage Operating Systems **
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#135 sysprog shortage - what questions would you ask?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#23 Linux IA-64 interrupts [was Re: Itanium benchmarks ...]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#26 HELP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#27 HELP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#38 Playing Cards was Re: looking for information on the IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#35 Computers in Science Fiction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#2 Where did text file line ending characters begin?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#62 PLX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#71 bps loader, was PLX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#72 bps loader, was PLX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#26 Alpha performance, why?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#38 Virtual Cleaning Cartridge
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#45 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic constants]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#10 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#16 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#52 Software for IBM 360/30
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#50 Various kinds of System reloads

News Release

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: News Release
Newsgroups: comp.security.firewalls
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:51:25 -0600
"Cliff" writes:
You are asking the wrong person to resign and therin lies the problem. People in leadership that make tough decisions nowdays are always a target. Just because of taking a tough job a person can have his life ruined. This is what you are doing to Rumsfeld...Oh I know he is the evil incarnation of the devil and the root of all of our supposed failures :)

during the televised senate hearings on the Abu Ghurayb Prison situation ... there were a number of senators that went on for great length about what they felt had happened. numerous times a senator's question was preceeded by 10-15 min. statement about what the senator felt had happened. numerous times the people testifying observed that what the senator may have felt had happened, in no way corresponded with any available facts and testimony. Some of the senators afterwards acknowledged that their preliminary feeling statements about the facts, had been based on no information what-so-ever (other than possibly the sensational headlines that had been playing in the press).

however, one senator went so far as to say that his version of the facts and the version of the facts from testimony would both be published in the congressional record.

another senator apparently was so irritated about all of his statements (about what he felt the facts were) being methodically refuted by extensive testimony and explanation (publicly on live TV) ... on his way out after the session, was caught live on TV, commenting to the person next to him, that he was going to personally see that Rumsfeld was removed from office. It didn't appear that he believed that there was false testimony or any wrong doing by the administration ... other than possibly showing up a senator on public TV.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 23:29:11 -0600
David Scheidt writes:
Roads are the same way. A bridge built to support a 40 ton truck costs a whole lot more than one that only has to support cars. There are, of course, costs associated with making the road three lanes wide, because there are so many cars, instead of just one, if it were only truck traffic. These are trickier to allocate, but the burden is placed more on light vehicles. (No body is paying the true costs, because there's zero accounting for air pollution, noise, health costs, environmental degradation....)

it isn't so much the maximum tons ... as mentioned before. it is the number of heavy truck axle-loads that define highway as "consumed" (used up) by heavy truck traffic. the cost of that heavy truck traffic is propotional to the amount of mile-axle-loads ... i.e. total cost of a highway is somewhat proportional to the number of miles. the amount of a road that is consumed by heavy truck axle-loads is proportional to the amount (or miles) of highway consumed (actually used). the specification claims that consumer and other light vehicles have no impact on highway "consumption" (using it up).

So a long-haul six-axle heavy truck trip of 2500 miles ... represents a highway consumption (using up the highway resource resulting in needing maintenance and/or rebuilt) of 15000 mile-axle-loads. A consumer or other light vehicle trip of 2500 miles has highway consumption ("use") of zero mile-axle-loads (there is no consumptioin of the highway resource by consumer and other light vehicles)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor

Basically highways are designed and built for specific number of heavy truck axle-loads (which represent a consumption of the highway resource ... aka wear & tear using up or consuming the highway).

other previous posts in this thread mentioning heavy truck axle-loads:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Taxes

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Taxes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 00:13:40 -0600
ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#21 Taxes

additional drift:
http://www.informationweek.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=ZAXUHEDWM5SOKQSNDBOCKH0CJUMEKJVN?articleID=185303797

IT Employment Reaches Record High In U.S.

Apr 18, 2006

An InformationWeek analysis of government labor data shows 3.472 million Americans employed in IT through the end of the first quarter.

More Americans are employed in IT than at any time in the nation's history.


... snip ...

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:09:49 -0600
greymaus writes:
We will have to differ on this, my thesis is that having a healthy trucking system is a _good thing_ , adding flexibility to the transport system, and preventing either labour or owners having a neck-lock on transport, as they would if railways were the preferred means of long distance transport. I will look uo those Californian costings when I have time, interesting stuff.

You apparently haven't understood what I wrote. I never claimed that there shouldn't be a healthy trucking opeation or claimed that there shouldn't be a healthy rail system. I've repeatedly wrote that a good transportation system was good ... especially for a country that covers a large physical area.

what I'm claiming is that if infrastructure costs are not being accurately accounted for ... then there can be bad decisions based on inaccurate information. heavy trucking prices are heavily skewed and subsidized. it is possibly considered a beneficial policy that some percentage of transportation system is subsidized in the national interest. however, if true costs aren't accurately represented, then bad decisions will be made based incorrect information.

for instance, if heavy trucking costs are incorrectly accounted for, then the prices will probably also no representive of the actual costs ... and as a result decisions may be made to transport some things by truck when it would actually be in the national interest to do something else (i.e. rely on equivalent local goods or use train transportation).

there is qualitative statements about good or healthy transportation infrastructure. there is nothing that translate that qaulitative statement into hard quantative numbers. I've claimed that there are significant hidden subsidies specifically for the heavy trucking industry which can significantly bias decisions/solutions in the favor of heavy trucking transportation. Without accurately accounting for the hidden subsidies for heavy trucking activity ... there is no way of quantitatively calculating how much is heavy trucking actually benefiting, how significant is the resulting transportation decision bias in the trucking industry, whould it be in the national interest if the transportation decision bias to be greater or lesser?

it is possible that there would still be a healthy trucking system if the hidden subsidy was significantly less (and therefor the biasing of transportation decision processes and related "market" forces was much less). I'm claiming that correctly accounting and representing all the actual facts can result in better informed decisions and more efficient operation of the "market" system. Even when there is national policy to bias the "market" system in specific direction (thru subsidies) ... it is better to accurately account for that bias in a quantitative fashion (rather than just leaving it to simplistic statements about good or not good; "some" may be good, however w/o quantitative information you aren't able to even guess if "too much" turns out to be bad).

correct information about mile-axle-load costs and highway infrastructure consumption by the heavy trucking industry is one part of having accurate quantitative information about the true infrastructure costs related to heavy trucking. nearly always, having the correct, true information is usually almost better than having wrong and incorrect information.

misc. past posts mentioning heavy trucking axle-load effects on highway wear and tear "consuming" the highway infrastructure:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:06:02 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
I disagree with this assumption about no consumption, especially in the snow belt. It ain't trucking that wrecks the roads. It's snow plows. And most of that hasty plowing is done not done for the trucking industry.

there was comment recently in comp.database.research about anecdotes don't make a generalization.

the cal. state highway design and specification documents (that I've repeatedly referenced and claim to be industry standard) that that the overall effective road design and lifetime calculations are based on heavy truck axle-loads ... and that consumer and other light vehicles have no effect on that. past posts mentioning industry standard accepted highway factors and the use of heavy truck axle loads as the driving calculation (the primary driving factor to the point that nearly all other factors can be ignored)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#48 The Pankian Metaphor

basically something like a pounds per area threshold that results in something like compression/decompression (aka heavy truck axle-loads) of the material in the road. consumer and other light vehicles have no effect on the highway material (surface, subsurface, road bed, etc). the compression/decompression of the road material is what accounts for the majority of the wear and tear of the highway (not just the surface, but the whole structure). in effect, wear and tear of the whole highway material structure by driving heavy trucks over the road, "consumes" the road. I'm not inventing the documents, I just thought it might be interesting to calculate the economic implications of what the documents are stating.

so there are specific places where a plow can damage the road. it is also possible for a hot vehicle fire to damage the road. the issue is the percentage maintenance costs because of such events compared to the wear&tear of the complete highway infrastructure caused by a heavy truck repeatedly driving over it. For instance the constant compression/decompression of the road material can precipitate cracks in the road surface material. In winter regions, water getting in such cracks will go through freeze/unfreeze cycles ... which accelerate the cracking and decomposition of the surface material. Further heavy truck axle-loads over previously damaged and cracking surface material can result in chucks of the material to break off (especially if the heavy trucking axle-load compression/decompression of the subsurface material has also resulted in inconsistencies and possibly minor voids which accelerate the disintegration of the road surface material above it via repeated application of heavy truck axle-loads. The increasing road surface imperfections (attributed to heavy truck axle-loads) would also be more susceptible to getting caught by snowblades passing over. However, the documents claim that the overall driving factor in all of this is the number heavy truck axle-loads causing wear&tear and therefor "consuming" the road infrastructure.

I don't think that the highway design and road building documents claim that it is impossible to damage road material via other mechanisms. Highways have washouts. landslides, and other natural effects.

I remember driving cross-country in the winter and coming to the mass turnpike. The trip had included driving on snow covered county (not even state) mountain roads. The mass pike highway condition was by far the worst of the trip. It had an enormous amount of frost heave damage and sections of the highway was something like 35mph. Highway design calls for much thicker road bed in areas subject to frost heave.

Part of this is that heavy truck axle loads can cause compression/decompression material damage going down fairly deep. Areas subject to subsurface moisture repeated freezing cycles is aggravated by inconsistencies (voids for the moisture) attributed to heavy truck axle-load repeated compression/decompression of the material.

Somebody half-jokenly told me that if the mass-pike had been built "to spec" in frost heave areas ... that then there wouldn't need to be a contract to go through and resurface those sections of the road every year.

Apparently, while there can be specific anecdotal events regarding damage, that such damage, in aggregate, is relatively insignificant compared to the overall road material wear&tear damage that is the result of repeated heavy truck axle loads. I'm somewhat conjecturing is that the inconsistencies and cracks that are the result of the repeated heavy truck axle loads are aggravated in winter climates Since moisture can accumulate in the voids and cracks that result from the repeated heavy truck axle loads and thru repeated freezing/unfreezing aggravate the effects of the repeated compression/decompression that is caused repeated truck axle loads.

One might conjecture that the repeated freezing/unfreezing of moisture (accumulated in voids, imperfections, cracks, etc that are the reasut of the repeated application of heavy truck axle loads) has similar effects to the repeated compression/uncompression of the same material by repeated application of heavy truck axle loads. The freezing/unfreezing of moisture in the voids, cracks and imperfections (resulting from the repeated application of heavy truck axle loads) is possibly causing compression/decompression of the surrounding road material ... also causing break down of the highway material (similar to that caused by repeated heavy truck axle loads). The possible issue with design documents indicated that heavy truck axle loads are the driving factor is the number of compression/decompression heavy truck axle-load cycles is enormously greater than the number of moisture freezing/unfreezing cycles (and also tend to cover a significantly greater area).

The highway design and specification documents, that I've repeatedly referenced, give the overall consideration for highway design being driven by the number of heavy truck axle loads (and consumer and other light weight vehicles having no effect).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#48 The Pankian Metaphor

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:09:52 -0600
Donald Tees writes:
Having worked in the industry all my life, I can state that *all* axle loads are considered. In fact, the definition of "commercial vehicle" is based on axle weight, here in Ontario. The rate of wear on a pavement is proportional to the pounds per square inch of the load on that highway. Unless a car weighs nothing, or it's tires do not contact the road, then it wears on the roadbed Since the wear is somewhat exponential, the higher truck loads are particularly important, and road taxes (Trucks *do* pay road tax when they get their licences) are often based on axle loading.

all i can say is read the design and specification documents for highways. the documents say that it is purely based on heavy truck axle loads and that consumer and other light weight vehicles have no effect. if you can find a document that says something different, i would be happy to read it.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#48 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#49 The Pankian Metaphor

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:38:21 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
I'm questioning the premise that says a piece of infrastructure, public infrastructure, can be assigned to one single business sector. Isn't the reason a piece is public is because 1. it is too expensive for a single entity to fund and 2. it has to benefit more than one sector in order for the politics to provide the funding.

I'm saying that if that the design and overall wear&tear of some infrastructure is primarily based on certain subset of activity ... then the fully loaded costs of that wear&tear and other considerations should be accurately accounted to that activity.

If you did accurate economic accounting for resource consumption (amount being used up by different activities) ... then you could make better economic decisions.

For instance the current road use fuel tax spreads the highway infrastructure costs relatively evenly spread across all kinds of vehicle traffic (there is some differentiation ... but it is not significant). If a specific kind of vehicle activity accounts for the majority of the infrastructure costs (the highway design documents that roads are predicated on the number of heavy truck axle loads, then one might assume that the road lifetime is based on the number of heavy truck axle loads ... which can be translated into each heavy truck axle load "consuming" a portion of the highway lifetime ... and other types of vehicle activity has very little effect on highway lifetime).

So simple economic/math question

1) if heavy truck axle load is the primary factor in "consuming" highways

2) if heavy truck taxes only account for a small percentage of total funds gathered for repleneshment of "consumed" highway (by heavy truck axle loads), five percent?, one percent?, .1 precent?

3) what happens if the number of heavy truck axle loads increase by a factor of ten times?

4) if the number of heavy truck axle loads increase by a factor of ten times (possibly because of various economic decision related to trade-offs related to cheap transportion ... aka it is cheaper to buy it somewhere else and move it across country than to buy it locally) ... what happens if that increase in the number of heavy truck axle loads actually increase the "consumption" (wear&tear) of the highway by ten times?

5) if the number of heavy truck axle loads increase by a factor of ten times and the wear&tear on the highway increases by a factor of ten times, is the highway wearing out ten times faster?

6) if the highway is wearing out ten times faster ... is the increase in heavy trucking activity by a factor by ten times (causing the highway to wear out ten times faster) also increasing the requirement for total highway revenue for building and operating highways increasing by ten times?

7) if heavy trucking is only contributing one percent (five percent?, .1 precent?) of total revenue for building and operating highways, then increasing heavy trucking activity increases the total revenue by 10*1 (10*5, 10*.1) or 10 percent (50 percent?, 1 percent?)

8) if increasing by ten times the number of heavy trucking axle loads increases the wear and tear on highway by ten times and if increasing the wear and tear on highways by ten times, causes the highway to wear out ten times faster, does the cost for building and operating highways increase by ten times?

9) if increasing heavy trucking activity by ten times only increases the total revenue for building and operating highways by 10 percent (50 percent?, 1 percent?) and if increasing heavy trucking activity by ten times causes the highways to wear out ten times faster, resulting in needing ten times as much money for building and operating the highways ... where does the additional funds come from?

10) lets say that increasing heavy trucking activity by ten times only causes the highways to wear out five times faster (rather than ten times), then is there only a requirement for five times the current total highway revenue for building and operating highways?

11) If the increase of revenue (from the increase in heavy trucking activity by ten times) only accounts for 50percent (or 10percent or 1percent) of total existing highway revenue, then what covers the requirement for having 500percent more total highway revenue for building and operating highways. Is 50percent (or 10percent of 1percent) of total existing highway revenue more than 500precent of total existing highway revenue?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#48 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#49 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#50 The Pankian Metaphor

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:18:50 -0600
the referenced documents for design and building road basically say that the driving factor is the target number of heavy truck axle loads ... and that consumer and other lightweight vehicles have no impact on the design (effectively causing no wear&tear because their weight/area is insufficient to affect the road material).

if heavy truck axle loads are the primary wear&tear considerations for roads ... that sort of implies that they are the primary cost factor.

the revenue to cover that cover the cost of road building and operation is from the fuel tax (and some from general funds).

so the assertion is that the primary cost factor for roads wearing out is the number of heavy truck axle loads ... but the majority of the revenue is from consumer and other light vehicle fuel taxes ... not from the heavy trucking fuel taxes. that implies that the majority of the costs is the result of heavy trucking but the majority of the revenue is not from heavy trucking (i.e. heavy trucking is paying less than what they are consuming).

the analogy is a company selling a product at below cost. normally a company can do that if they have other products that they sell above cost (and therefor can cover the shortfall created by selling one of their products below cost).

the company can still come out ahead if the amount lost by selling one product at a loss can be made up by revenue from other products sold at greater than cost.

the marketing organization doesn't know that the particular product is being sold at a loss and starts a $1m incentive for the sale team to start pushing the product (being sold at below cost).

Say that this particular product is being sold at $50 below cost and they are currently selling 10,000/annum; for total annual loss of $5m/annum, which they are currently able to cover by profits on other product lines.

Lets say the sale tean is really successful and is able to increase the sales to 100,000/annum increasing the per annum loss to $50m (plus the $1m for the sales incentive program).

the company may have a perfectly valid economic strategy for selling 10,000 units/annum at $50/unit loss. but failing to fulling inform the members of the company could increase the aggregate loss from $5m/annum to $50m/annum ... which the corporate financial structure is unable to accomodate resulting in the company failing.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:58:27 -0600
the other scenario is consumer and lightweight vehicle traffic is cut in half ... potentially cutting overall fuel tax revenue nearly in half (since majority of fuel is still consumed by consumer and lightweight vehicles).

the news today is that oil is at $71/barrel and several economic talk shows are predicting that the gov. isn't going to do anything about it ... that the US consumers are going to have to get use to high gas prices ($3/gal) and will have to adjust their profligate ways.

so, say one result is that the consumers cut their miles traveled and fuel consumption in half ... resulting in the fuel tax revenues being cut nearly in half (since the majority of fuel is consumed by consumer & other light vehicles)

however, there is possibility that heavy trucking just keeps along at the same pace ... that would mean that the miles-axle-loads per annum continue the same, that implies that highways continue to wearout at the same rate, because of the axle-load wear&tear hasn't changed ... therefor the overall spending for highway building and operation stays about the same ... but the revenue for highway building and operation (from fuel taxes) could be cut nearly in half.

who makes up the shortfall?

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:29:52 -0600
part of the possible problem in comprehending the situation is an implicit false assumption that the "use" of fuel is directly proportional to the "use" of highway (wear&tear, aka consumption of the highway) and the same for all vehicles that use fuel and drive on the road. the funding for "consumption" of highway resources (building and operating expenses) comes from a tax on the use of fuel (and is therefor proportional to fuel consumed not wear&tear caused to the highway).

such a false assumption then would result in believing that if any vehicle (what ever kind) doubled their fuel use, the associated fuel tax would totally cover the cost the related increase in costs of building and operating roads.

the current situation is that the vast majority of fuel taxes come from consumer and other light vehicles but nearly none of the highway wear&tear comes from consumer vehicle use.

a small fraction of fuel taxes comes from heavy trucking use, but nearly all highway wear&tear comes from heavy truck miles-axle-loads.

so consumer driving can double, the revenue nearly double and there is no change in highway wear&tear. consumer driving could be cut in half, the revenue nearly is cut and half and there is no change in highway wear&tear.

heavy trucking driving can double, there is only a small increase in revenue but the highway wear&tear doubles (and possibly the cost of highway building and operation doubles)

what happens if consumer traffic is cut in half, resulting in nearly cutting revenue in half (but doesn't changed the highway wear and tear since consumer driving is only insignificantly contributing to highway wear and tear) ... and at the same time heavy trucking traffic doubles (and miles-axle-loads, aka highway wear and tear doubles) ... requiring twice as much revenue for highway building and operation (rather than half as much).

even assuming that heavy trucks consume ten times as much fuel (per mile driven) as a consumer vehicle ... that difference in revenue for fuel use per mile driven ... still isn't sufficient to cover the difference in mile-axle-load wear&tear difference between consumer vehicles and heavy trucks.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:33:22 -0600
greymaus writes:
Road through Phoenix Park in Dublin is blocked to commercial traffic. Nice place to drive, park and just look around on a sunny evening.

there is an interesting battle shaping up by conservationists in cal. about proliferation of super-SUVs being bought for personal use.

They are feeling especially irate since commercial vehicles have qualified for up to a $100k tax benefit, which is automatically determined just by gross vehicle weight (therefor purchase of any of these super-SUVs automatically qualifies).

The counter they've come up with, is if the super-SUVs can take advantage of the $100k tax benefit, ... then all the other laws should also be enforced ... like the ban on commercial vehicles making regular use of residential streets ... which would imply that the people owning the majority of the super-SUVs for personal use ... are prohibited from driving them to/from their home.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:22:45 -0600
Donald Tees writes:
It would be far more realistic to say that any load approaching the maximum the road was designed for is going to cause the most damage.

my original post on the subject in the thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor

references two earlier posts as containing information on the subject taken from published sources
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#20 Parallel programming again (Re: Intel announces "CT" aka

reproducing portions of those posts which had been previously posted in this newsgroup in thread on Transportation in 2002:

--------------------------------------------------------------
misc ref on fuel tax:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html

misc road construction ref:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm#i603

603.1 Introduction

The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or the structural section for specific projects.

Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

Traffic information that is required for structural section design includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.


--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:25:24 -0600
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#56 The Pankian Metaphor

of possible interest in the referenced specification paragraph is the last sentence
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

REP cards

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: REP cards
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:13:26 -0600
glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
In the stories I remember, but never actually did or saw anyone do, one punched TXT cards to write over the mistake bytes.

As far as I remember TXT have a start address and length such that one could do it. A table of the 256 possible punch combinations and the resulting bit patterns would be needed, though.

The description I know of for the object module format is in the Linkage Editor PLM, for sale by IBM up until a few years ago. It should also be on bitsavers.org.


as mentioned in previous post ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#43 Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#44 Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)

i got quite accomplished at reading and multi-punching (hex) punch codes in TXT cards ... having memorized all possible punch codes and their hex counterpart and hex codes for all instructions; also served in reading printing hex storage dumps and/or examining the contents of storage using the front panel lights.

I have old CMS Program Logic Manual (360D-05-2-005, Oct, 1970), starting pg. 292 and CP67/CMS User's Guide (GH20-0859-0), pgs 521-523 which has format description for ESD, TXT, RLD, END, REP, ICS, SLC, etc cards which i've partially reproduced sections of in previous posts.

detail of ESD card format (from posting in bit.listserv.ibm-main in 2001):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#8 finding object decks with multiple entry points

detail of SLC, ICS, REP, ESD formats from posting to alt.folklore.computers in 2001
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#14 IBM Model Numbers (was: First video terminal?

detail of TXT format (from posting to alt.folklore.computers in 2001)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#60 Text (was: Review of Steve McConnell's AFTER THE GOLD RUSH)

from above:


col
1               12-2-9 / x'02'
2-4             TXT
5               blank
6-8             relative address of first instruction on record
9-10            blank
11-12           byte count ... number of bytes in information field
15-16           ESDID
17-72           56-byte information field
73-80           deck id, sequence number, or both


in 360 assembler, the first TITLE statement with a non-blank name field would place that name field in cols 73-80 of all output object cards/records.
the above description is repeated in
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#45 Commenting Sytles

(posted to alt.folklore.computers in 2001)

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:50:04 -0600
"Gerard Schildberger" writes:
Not necessarily. US 75 (the part I know, in Minnesota) has still got some of the original cement, laid down (I think) right after WWII -- maybe before, and it's still NOT broken up (of course, parts of it are).

They laid down one heck of a good base for that road. Some roads doen't even last five years before breaking up. Too cheap to put in a good base, or the cement isn't thick enough, or the grade of cement is bad, or the mixture, overloading ... lots of reasons. _______________Gerard S.


ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#56 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#57 The Pankian Metaphor

which makes repeated reference to the earlier postings ... partial extract from the content of previous posting:
misc ref on fuel tax:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html

misc road construction ref:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm#i603-

603.1 Introduction

The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or the structural section for specific projects.

Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

Traffic information that is required for structural section design includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.
... snip ...

from the previous posting extract on the "design of pavement structural section" the paragraph:
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

... snip ...

the last paragraph in the referenced paragraph comments that
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

... snip ...

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:05:23 -0600
sidd@situ.com () writes:
i am told by a civil engineer that a tractor trailer in the USA does on average 8000 times more damage to the highway than a midsized passenger vehicle.

is the figure wildly inaccurate ?


ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#56 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#57 The Pankian Metaphor

which makes repeated reference to the earlier postings ... partial extract from the content of previous posting:
misc ref on fuel tax:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html

misc road construction ref:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm#i603-

603.1 Introduction

The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or the structural section for specific projects.

Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

Traffic information that is required for structural section design includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.


... snip ...

from the previous posting extract on the "design of pavement structural section" the paragraph:
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

... snip ...

the last paragraph in the referenced paragraph comments that
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

... snip ...

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:19:26 -0600
David Scheidt writes:
Roads are the same way. A bridge built to support a 40 ton truck costs a whole lot more than one that only has to support cars. There are, of course, costs associated with making the road three lanes wide, because there are so many cars, instead of just one, if it were only truck traffic. These are trickier to allocate, but the burden is placed more on light vehicles. (No body is paying the true costs, because there's zero accounting for air pollution, noise, health costs, environmental degradation....)

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#44 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#42 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#56 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#57 The Pankian Metaphor

which makes repeated reference to the earlier postings ... partial extract from the content of previous posting:
misc ref on fuel tax:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html

misc road construction ref:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm#i603-

603.1 Introduction

The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or the structural section for specific projects.

Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

Traffic information that is required for structural section design includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.


... snip ...

from the previous posting extract on the "design of pavement structural section" the paragraph:
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

... snip ...

the last paragraph in the referenced paragraph comments that
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

... snip ...

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Pankian Metaphor

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pankian Metaphor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:21:34 -0600
Donald Tees writes:
I would not dispute, based on the data provided, that highways are being underdesigned for modern truck traffic. I would conclude, though, that we are being poorly served by the engineers designing roads inadequate for the purpose. Not that car drivers are getting a break.

Building a road happens once. Maintenance goes on forever.


I have seen highways that have been substantional rebuilt after a service lifetime on the order of 50 yrs.
misc road construction ref:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/oppd/hdm/chapters/t603.htm#i603-

603.1 Introduction

The primary goal of the design of the pavement structural section is to provide a structurally stable and durable pavement and base system which, with a minimum of maintenance, will carry the projected traffic loading for the designated design period. This topic discusses the factors to be considered and procedures to be followed in developing a projection of truck traffic for design of the "pavement structure" or the structural section for specific projects.

Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

Traffic information that is required for structural section design includes axle loads, axle configurations, and number of applications. The results of the AASHO Road Test (performed in the early 1960's in Illinois) have shown that the damaging effect of the passage of an axle load can be represented by a number of 80 kN ESAL's. For example, one application of a 53 kN single axle load was found to cause damage equal to an application of approximately 0.23 of an 80 kN single axle load, and four applications of a 53 kN single axle were found to cause the same damage (or reduction in serviceability) as one application of an 80 kN single axle.


... snip ...

from the previous posting extract on the "design of pavement structural section" the paragraph:
Pavement structural sections are designed to carry the projected truck traffic considering the expanded truck traffic volume, mix, and the axle loads converted to 80 kN equivalent single axle loads (ESAL's) expected to occur during the design period. The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

... snip ...

the last paragraph in the referenced paragraph comments that
The effects on pavement life of passenger cars, pickups, and two-axle trucks are considered to be negligible.

... snip ...

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/


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