List of Archived Posts
2003 Newsgroup Postings (3/10 - 3/31)
- Resolved: There Are No Programs With >32 Bits of Text
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- When using SSL, are the GET arguments (QueryString in asp) also encrypted?
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- 'Boyd': A military Strategist's Emphasis on Speed
- PDP10 and RISC
- Resolved: There Are No Programs With >32 Bits of Text
- unix
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- unix
- unix
- unix
- unix
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- unix
- MP cost effectiveness
- MP cost effectiveness
- MP cost effectiveness
- MP cost effectiveness
- A Speculative question
- MP cost effectiveness
- shirts
- A Speculative question
- MP cost effectiveness
- MP cost effectiveness
- MP cost effectiveness
- A Speculative question
- A Speculative question
- Use of SSL as a VPN
- unix
- Use of SSL as a VPN
- Keeping old hardware alive?
- editors/termcap
- editors/termcap
- IETF meeting (Re: editors/termcap)
- Why we don't use homebrew crypto
- unix
- IBM 3174
- The Pentium 4 - RIP?
- Computer programming was all about:
- MP cost effectiveness
- Public key and the authority problem
- MP cost effectiveness
- MP cost effectiveness
- MP cost effectiveness
- A Speculative question
- MP cost effectiveness
- OT: Columbia, MD and the social impact of Ft. Meade/NSA?
- Reviving Multics
- Reviving Multics
- Reviving Multics
- Security in RADIUS (RFC2865)
- editors/termcap
- Security in RADIUS (RFC2865)
- reviving Multics -- Computer Museum
- hee-hee. I can do something about this spam
- reviving Multics -- Computer Museum
- reviving Multics -- Computer Museum
- reviving Multics -- Computer Museum
- 801 (was Re: Reviving Multics
- History of project maintenance tools -- what and when?
- The Pentium 4 - RIP?
- The Pentium 4 - RIP?
- Gartner Office Information Systems 6/2/89
- ARIDUS
- GOSIP
- GOSIP
- Security Certifications?
- Security Certifications?
- History of project maintenance tools -- what and when?
- History of project maintenance tools -- what and when?
- unix
- Microsoft strikes again - from comp.risks
- 801 (was Re: Reviving Multics
- "Super-Cheap" Supercomputing
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Resolved: There Are No Programs With >32 Bits of Text
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 03:05:54 GMT
hack@watson.ibm.com (hack) writes:
Many processors have bigger virtual addresses than effective addrs.
For example, 32-bit PowerPC has a 52-bit vaddr, 64-bit PPC has 80-bit
vaddr; 32-bit S/390 has 42-bit vaddr (in Access-Register mode) and
64-bit z/Series has 75-bit vaddr (in AR mode, which adds 11 bits).
i've always quibbled with romp's reference to 40-bit and
rios's reference to 52-bit.
if i compare 370 to romp .... a 370/168 had a sto-associative (aka
address space) tlb. it had a seven entry sto-stack (3bit) ... to
identify which address space a tlb entry was associated
with. basically a address space was identified by its segment table
origin (aka STO) address. when switching address spaces, it would
look to see if the STO was in the stack ... if not, it would scavanage
an entry and invalidate all the associated TLB entries.
801 used inverted tables ... so there was no STO to identify which
address space was being worked in. 801 went to segment associtive
(rather than address space) and used a 12bit logical identifier to
indicate which segment was being used. instead of a segment table
origin address loaded into a control register ... romp had 16 segment
registers that each got a 12bit logical identifier loaded. when
resolving a tlb entry ... a 32bit virtual address would be translated
into the first four bits to select a segment register ... and the
12bit logical segment identifier would be combined with the low 28
address bits to form a 40 bit associative value for tlb.
I've asserted that just because the associative bit structure was
exposed to program didn't make the associative bits part of the
virtual address. The equivalent logic would say that 370 had
addressing that included the maximum possible number of different
address space (segment) tables that could be created/built. While,
360/67 had both 24-bit and 32-bit address, the transition to 370 went
back to only 24-bit addresses. 31-bit (rather than 32-bit) didn't
reappear to 370/xa with the 3081. The minimum requirement for a
segment table was 64bytes ... or 64 segment tables per 4kbytes of real
storage. I would claim that I could reasonably create 16,384
unique/different segment tables (2**16) in one megabyte of real
storage. Using the romp logic, 2**16 unique tables plus 2**24 virtual
addressing should give 370 also 40-bit virtual addressing as well.
The explanation of 40-bit addressing in ROMP was somewhat justified
based on the original design point of an non/unprotected
execution/run-time environment ... where in-line application code
could change address-space values as trivially as floating point
register and address/general purpose register values (could be
changed). To some extent the logic was that if application code could
load different address-space value into a register and point to a
different address space .... as easily as a different address pointer
could be loaded into a general register ... then the application true
address space was the size of each individual address space times the
maximum number of different address spaces.
rios kept the romp/801 segment register logic, but doubled the size of
unique identifier from 12 bits to 24 bits. The resulting 28bit virtual
address plus 24bit segment/address-space identifier yields the 52bit.
So, if I built a kernel for 370 that always ran all code in supervisor
mode ... and never switched into problem mode for application
execution, then in-line application code could also change address
space register value as easily as they could change general purpose
registers ... and romp/801 and 370 would have the same number of
virtual address bits ... 40-bits.
Did 370 have 24-bit virtual address ... based on number of bits in
single address space .... or for 370/168 with 3-bit associative sto,
did the 370/168 have a 27-bit virtual address (aka 24-bit virtual
address per address space, plus the 3-bit address-space associative
indiciator), or did it have 40-bit virtual address ... 24-bit virtaul
address per address space ... plus possibly 16,384 (16-bit) unique
segment tables (address spaces).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 13:54:20 GMT
"Russ Holsclaw" writes:
You've mentioned the limitations of the 2702 frequently, but I
don't recall your mentioning the underlying reason why you
couldn't just switch baudrates on the '02 as easily as all that.
Were you aware of the inner workings of the 2702, with the
acoustic delay line, the "capture register", and all the stuff
that allowed the machine to "time-share" the same logic circuits
to concurrently run multiple communications ports?
You've suggested that what you wanted to do should have been a
matter of changing bit-rate clock frequencies. I hope you
realized why it wasn't as simple as all that. This machine
definitely had an interesting design!
the 2702 had SAD command that allowed different linescanners to be
switched between different lines. our 2702 initially had line scanners
for 1052s & 2741s installed. Later the IBM FEs did field upgrade to
install ascii/tty line-scanner .... the field installation kit for tty
came in boxes labeled heathkit.
cp/67 already had logic to dynamically determine terminal type between
1052, correspondance 2741 and PTTC 2741. When I added tty/ascii support
to cp/67, I rewrote the dynamic terminal type code to also be able to
distinquish tty. I even demo'ed the code showing being able to dial-up
2741 and tty terminals on the same address. The ibm field engineer
then told me that it wasn't spec'ed to actually work and I never did
enough testing to find that out; that while the 2702 supported
dynamically assigning the line-scanner to different lines ... that
they took some short cuts in the implementation and that specific
oscillators where hardwired to specific lines ... fixing their baud
rate.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:00:18 GMT
"Russ Holsclaw" writes:
You've suggested that what you wanted to do should have been a
matter of changing bit-rate clock frequencies. I hope you
realized why it wasn't as simple as all that. This machine
definitely had an interesting design!
past descriptions mentioning that i was told that the 2702 took
implementation short-cut and while it was possible to dynamically
associate different line-scanners with different lines, that the
oscillators were hardwired to specific lines fixing the baud rate.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#2 360/67, was Re: IBM's Project F/S ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#15 unit record & other controllers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#37 interdata & perkin/elmer machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#39 Mainframes & Unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#6 History of ASCII (was Re: Why Not! Why not???)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#53 Pre ARPAnet email?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#78 HMC . . . does anyone out there like it ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#43 QTAM (was: MVS History)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#30 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#38 Playing Cards was Re: looking for information on the IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#17 vax6k.openecs.org rebirth
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#73 Card Columns
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#70 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:30:07 GMT
jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes:
His point is that his was the first project to interface to the IBM
360 I/O channels, and that they did it without IBM's cooperation; in
fact, IBM would probably have wished at the time that they had not
done so. (Now? Who knows?) The task was nontrivial, to say the
least; I'm not sure how I'd go about it even today, knowing what I
know about the 360 channel interface. The PCM (plug-compatible
manufacturer) industry was definitely a problem, as IBM saw it at
the time, but there wasn't much they could do about it due to the
ongoing antitrust litigation.
two minor bugs(?) that we found in testing ...
first was that 360 had timer in location 80/x'50'. the machine would
"red-light" (hardware failure/stop) if there was a pending timer
update to location 50 and the timer tic'ed again. Holding the channel,
tied up the memory bus (preventing access to memory). The "normal"
timer tic'ed bit eight 1/300 second, every 3.3mills. The 360/67 had
high resolution timer which tic'ed the low bit position approx every
13microseconds. some early testing would red-light the cpu and the
channel board had to be reworked so that it released the channel at
frequent intervals (and the memory bus) so location 80/x'50' timer
could be updated.
past discussions of location 80 timer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#30 interdata and perkin/elmer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#37 interdata & perkin/elmer machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#39 Mainframes & Unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#40 360 CPU meters (was Re: Early IBM-PC sales proj..
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#21 vax6k.openecs.org rebirth
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#24 vax6k.openecs.org rebirth
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#25 vax6k.openecs.org rebirth
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#26 vax6k.openecs.org rebirth
the other problem was bit order. it turns that that ascii standard
transmits the leading bit first. the ibm linescanners take in the
leading bit of a byte and place it in the low-order bit position. when
ascii data is transferred from the controller to the 360 memory, each
byte is in bit-reversed format. all of the ibm official translate
tables for ascii->ebcdic took into account that 360 memory copies were
bit-reversed bytes (and the reverse happens with outgoing bytes). for
some reason that was overlooked and tty data was arriving in 360
memory in non-bit-reversed format. that required a quick fix.
past discussion of bit-reversed ascii
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#16 unit record & other controllers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#14 characters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#30 interdata and perkin/elmer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#37 interdata & perkin/elmer machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#39 Mainframes & Unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#34 ... cics ... from posting from another list
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#99 The Translate (TR) instruction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#133 EBCDIC binary Conversion Question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#78 HMC . . . does anyone out there like it ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#50 Flip the bits in a byte
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#52 Flip the bits in a byte
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#46 Big black helicopters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#44 PC/370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#51 History of HEX and ASCII
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:47:55 GMT
jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes:
His point is that his was the first project to interface to the IBM
360 I/O channels, and that they did it without IBM's cooperation; in
fact, IBM would probably have wished at the time that they had not
done so. (Now? Who knows?) The task was nontrivial, to say the
least; I'm not sure how I'd go about it even today, knowing what I
know about the 360 channel interface. The PCM (plug-compatible
manufacturer) industry was definitely a problem, as IBM saw it at
the time, but there wasn't much they could do about it due to the
ongoing antitrust litigation.
and as somewhat been previously aluded to, that possibly because of
federal litigation concerns, it was difficult to trivially respond to
the pcm threat. an initially response was supposedly FS that would
create an extremely sophisticated integration between various hardware
boxes ... significantly raising the bar for PCMs.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#futuresys
When FS was canceled (folklore has the amount sunk into FS would have
bankrupted any other computer company, probably the largest computer
project of the time, at least on par with 360 and effectively unkown)
... the CPD response could possibly be characterized by substituting
complicated integration (aka the pu5/pu4 interface between vtam and
3705ncp) for sophisticated integration.
Later in HSDT, we had a project that attempted to deliver a product
that would have obsoleted much of the san vtam/ncp stuff by taking an
implementation done at one of the babybells on S/1 (that remapped all
of the vtam RUs and layered them on a distributed control,
peer-to-peer packet network infrastructure) and ported it to RIOS.
minor refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#66 System/1 ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#67 System/1 ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#70 Series/1 as NCP (was: Re: System/1 ?)http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#12 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#28 diffence between itanium and alpha
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:14:26 GMT
Ben Hutchings <ben-public-nospam@decadentplace.org.uk> writes:
...and will you ever stop talking about it? You seem to drop this
into about every second article. We know.
well, i did start out with disclaimer which mentioned that the post
was actually cross-posted from vm/esa where i've relatively
infrequently posted &/or mentioned the origins of the pcm industry.
minor side observations .... controllers actually tended to have
computer processors of one sort or another. I would guess that thru
the '70s, that the PCM industry shipped more computer processors than
just about any other manufacter (except ibm itself).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: When using SSL, are the GET arguments (QueryString in asp) also encrypted?
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 15:34:26 GMT
Ulrich Boche writes:
The SSL handshake is done before any data is sent, so the URL is sent
encrypted.
aka the screen (with the URL) has been transmitted in SSL ... so the
transmission of the URL is encrypted. With the click on the URL, the
browser takes the host name, and resolves to ip-address (if necessary)
and then establishes a TCP connection with that ip-adress. Within the
TCP connection the browser then negotiates the SSL encryption with the
webserver. Once the SSL encryption has been negotiated/established
(within the TCP connection), then the HTTP protocol starts.
in standard HTTP, the TCP connection is established (w/o any SSL
encryption stuff) and the HTTP protocol starts flowing. With SSL, the
encryption stuff is established before any HTTP protocol starts.
also as part of the ssl protocol ... the browser will check that the
host name from the URL matches the domain name in the SSL certificate
returned from the webserver (during initial SSL negotiation).
the webserver, based on convention established for the port address
being connected to (aka 80 or 443) knows whether or not SSL
negotiation is required before starting HTTP.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:49:50 GMT
"Russ Holsclaw" writes:
When I went to CE "boot camp" for 360 Common I/O, in the fall of
'66, the first thing we learned in the course for the 2821 Control
Unit (Reader/punch/printer) was the I/O interface sequences. We
learned the function of every signal line in the cable, and the
sequence in which they were activated, for both Selector (burst)
mode and for Multiplexor mode. For many in the class, it was their
first exposure to electronic logic circuitry. Everything had been
relays up to that point -- sorters and keypunches. I never thought
it was rocket science, particularly.
i never really got to attend any ibm classes as student. the closest i
possibly got was the cp/67 class in beverly hill ... but i was roped
into helping teach it.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#72 cp/67 35th anniversary
about the same month, i had week of 2nd shift test time at an ibm
datacenter. i was at loose ends during 1st shift and found an os/360
control block and debugging class in the building. after correcting
the instructor a number of times, i was asked to leave.
later when hanging around bldgs 14 and 15 for san jose disk
engineering ... i had to pick up some more channel interface. There
were some wierd conference calls that i was asked to attend to mediate
between the pok channel engineers and the san jose disk controller
engineers (the excuse was that most of the senior san jose engineers
who normally handled this sort of stuff had wandered off over a period
of time to various startups)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk
Somewhere along the way, I did manage to succesfully acquire an CE
tool briefcase. I had to submit the order 3-4 times ... apparently
nobody out of field engineering is suppose to have them. It happens to
be sitting right here ... some number of pieces have disappeared over
the years. It has some of these hook things that I remember seeing
service people use on the innards of 2741s. It has misc. other things
like "IBM FIRST AID KIT, IBM P/N 453693", "IBM MINIPROBE ECN
NO. REV. O", a sharpening stone made in India with no other
designation,
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:17:20 GMT
"Russ Holsclaw" writes:
IBM published the complete specs for the 360 I/O interface in a
generally-available document (an "SRL") that described all the
electrical specs and interface sequences. The problem is that a
lot of folks couldn't read instructions, especially where timings
were concerned. I suppose it might be tough if you were trying to
retro-fit the channel interface onto a pre-existing device that
wasn't designed from the ground up to be connected to a 360
channel.
i remember some number of those documents that had titles like "OEM
interface this" (aka other equipment manufactur) or "OEM interface
that" ... but i don't remember any such publications at the time of
the first channel interface board for the interdata.
it must have been a reasonably good job. I ran into somebody that was
selling perkin-elmer machines into the federal government in the '80s
... and he commented that the channel interface wirewrap board looked
like it came out of the 60s (aka perkin-elmer had bought up
interdata).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:24:41 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
engineering ... i had to pick up some more channel interface. There
were some wierd conference calls that i was asked to attend to mediate
between the pok channel engineers and the san jose disk controller
engineers (the excuse was that most of the senior san jose engineers
who normally handled this sort of stuff had wandered off over a period
of time to various startups)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk
there was this joke
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#64 Design (Was Re: Server found behind drywall)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#29 checking some myths.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#10 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#11 Home mainframes
that i was working 1st shift in bldg. 28
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#systemr
2nd shift in bldgs 14/15
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk
3rd shift in bldg 90
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#33 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#34 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#55 Multics hardware (was Re: "Soul of a New Machine" Computer?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#69 So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#44 System vs. application programming?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#29 360/370 disk drives
and weekends at the hone complex in palo alto:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 'Boyd': A military Strategist's Emphasis on Speed
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:30:49 GMT
john_bailey@rochester.rr.com (john bailey) writes:
Is it possible to get a copy of his tactical air combat manual Aerial
Attack Study?
boyd once mentioned that the cia had obtained a copy of the russian
300 page fighter pilot manual ... when translated to english, was
word-for-word boyd's original ... except for things like changing feet
to meters. if you can't find it in the us ... you might be able to
find it in russia.
as an aside, look on the web for john warden, i've talked to him a
couple times ... he is much better known in the air force than boyd.
there have been some papers comparing warden & boyd strategies ... but
the recent attention to leakage via the web, many of the URLs have
gone 404 (aka try "warden", "boyd", and "air force" in a search
engine; also look for some of chuck spinney's articles).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PDP10 and RISC
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:53:32 GMT
"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
But... but... all _modern_ systems are INTERACTIVE! Batch programming
is a throwback to the dinosaurs! Nobody who wants to be With the
Program [tm] would think of using that archaic stuff!
<sigh> These silly people. They don't realize that all too often,
"interactive" is synonymous with "manual".
or worse?
effectively demons and the majority of servers (oltp, web, database,
etc) are batch programs. one of the major characteristics of
interactive platforms and interactive applications have been that they
expected to interact with a person (including when things went wrong
.... frequently just exiting with error code and expecting the human
to figure it out).
most of the batch platforms have evolved automagic facilities for
correcting for various types of life's unpleasantness. one of the
hardest things in the 90s was trying to convince some of the people
doing webservers ... that it would really be nice if servers could run
in large "lights out" datacenters for weeks at a time w/o human
intervention. unfortunately ... it wasn't just a question of the
application programming paradigm for implementing the webservers
... but frequently the platforms they were being run on lacked the
industrial strength, lights out facilities.
i had a trivial case in the mid-90s of a production korn shell on unix
platform .... involving sort piped to critical report generation. For
some reason the sort filled up disk space and stopped w/o any error
indication. imagine something like this happening for a large
corporate or gov. payroll ... being in the 50 percent of the people
that aren't getting their checks.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Resolved: There Are No Programs With >32 Bits of Text
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:00:31 GMT
hack@watson.ibm.com (hack) writes:
No, S/370 has a 24-bit vaddr; the number of possible segment tables
(or STO lookaside) has nothing to do with it. But Access Registers
in ESA/370 changed the story, because (unlike POWER segment registers)
the ARs are user-level registers, and a user-level program could load
any access token, of which 211 could be simultaneously defined in the
tables set up by the OS. This gives ESA/370 in AR mode a 42-bit vaddr
(11+31) using "far" pointers consisting of an ALET and an effective addr.
For z/Architecture in 64-bit AR mode, we get a 75-bit vaddr (11+64).
Clearly, this has to be mapped sparsely due to real-storage constraints,
but the tree-structured address-translation tables support that (as would
inverted or hashed tables, of course).
previous ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#0 Resolved: There Are No Programs With >32 Bits of Text
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801
original 370 architecture allowed for TLBs that were either STO
associative (address space) or STE associative (segment ... or page
table). there were also PTLB (purge look aside table), ISTO
(invalidate sto), ISTE (invalidate segment table entry), and IPTE
(invalidate page table entry) instructions. Because of some technical
difficulty on engineering upgrade to add virtual memory hardware to
370/165 ... all but the PTLB instruction was dropped. Later the IPTE
instruction was introduced with 3033.
on cp/67 and then migrated to vm/370, I had done page mapped file
system for cms (basically minimum mods to the cms old & then edf
filesystems layered on 4k paging paradigm). One of the changes
included creating program images (MODULES) with shared segment
specification ... aka when CMS went to load the program ... it would
not only use a api to the cp kernel page i/o system .... but the api
supported shared segment specification (a little slight of hand to
guarentee unique shared segment names). An example is that the APL
interpreter could be generated as a "shared" module out on the CMS
system disk ... and then everybody invoking that APL interpreter would
share the same (appropriate segments) memory image ... as an aside
this was also deployed for hone (extremely apl intensive):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#mmap
and it was do'able w/o any of the SAVESYS or DMKSNT definition gorp
(and anybody that could execute the GENMOD command could specify
shared segments ... and modulo resident on page-image filesystem and
some parameter checking it all worked).
that api provided CMS capability of updating segment entries analogous
to any kernel api provided on ROMP to update one of its segment
register value. There could be an arbritrary large number of "shared"
segments .... mapped into any number of segment table entry values
(aka pointer to unique page table) ... exactly equivalent to unique
segments IDs in the 801/ROMP architecture.
Now if the kernel had been running CMS w/o protection and allowed a
CMS application to address its own segment (address space) table and
make arbitrary changes to segment table entries ... is exactly
analogous to original 801 design point of allowing applications
to directly change 801 segment register values. The effect is
the same ... a (segment) section of a specific address space is
changed from one virtual segment defintion to a totally different
virtual segment definition.
Had there been 370 hardware implemented with STE-associative TLB (as
allowed for in the architecture) ... then the 370 hardware would have
been using the contents of the segment table entry for two distinct
purposes: 1) uniquely identify the segment (exactly equivalent to the
801 logical segment id) and 2) as a address pointer to a page table
(not done in 801) ... just because they are the same value doesn't
make the different & distinct uses any less true.
I assert that given number #1 (equivalence between 370 segment table
entry value as unique segment identifier and 801 logical
segment id as unique segment identifier) then if the number of bits in
the 801 logical segment id can be construed as additive to the number
of virtual address bits .... then I can construe that some number of
the bits in the 370 segment table entry are also additive to the the
number of virtual address bits.
There is two ways of looking at this .... given a specific instruction
at a specific instant in time .... what is the maximum number of
different addresses directly available to that instruction. The other
is that given any virtual memory mapping infrastructure .... what is
the maximum number of different things that can be mapped into any
single address space. If the memory mapped infrastructure supports 64k
different memory mapped objects ... are those 16bits additive to the
number of bits in a single address space.
370 was slightly constrained by having the unique segment identifier
also a pointer to page table ... and page tables needing to occupy
unique real storage locations. however, since I did get things like
some page'able tables shipped in the resource manager ... ref
(includes text of announcement letter):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#45 VM/370 Resource Manager
the actual number of definable shared segment/objects that could be
supported in the system then was significantly larger than the number
of pagetables that could be created in real storage at any moment
(just had to have judicious use of TLB invalidation). then the only
practical limitation was the amount of disk storage that could be
attached to the machine.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:17:43 GMT
bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes:
So let me get this straight--you're responsible for the PCM processor
market, and the PCM processor market precipitated restricted operating
system licensing.
Does that mean I can blame you for Windows XP?
we've been blamed for originating the PCM controller market .... not
the PCM processor market. PCM processor market didn't happen until
later in the '70s ... probably starting with Amdahl(?) (the stuff I
did as an undergraduate was using a interdata/3 to emulate a 360
telecommunications controller). He had left IBM and was giving
presentations about his business case justification for making
370-clone. I was at such a presentation in the early '70s in some
large MIT auditorium (a couple years before any amdahl processors were
shipping).
there is possibly some study showing that the cost of developing an
operating system and associated software infrastructure is
significantly larger (possibly by at least order of magnitude) than
the cost of developing a processor. If you are in a market that
effecitvely provides the most expensive components for free (operating
system, et al)... I would guess that eventually some number of people
might eventually realize there is a market niche for somebody to just
develop clone-hardware w/o incurring the expense of developing the
rest of a computing infrastructure. Such clone-developers should have
significantly larger ROI .... compared to somebody paying to develop
both the hardware and software ... and only charging for
hardware. They would only have to develop the hardware .... and get
their software for free.
Simplified, you have a market environment that all the players are
paying 1N to develop hardware and 10N to develop all the associated
software infrastructure. Their total development costs are 11N and say
are charging 15N for the hardware product and effectively providing
the software as unlicensed for free. Somebody comes along and
realizes that he can create a market-niche by only paying 1N for
hardware development and sells the product for 10N. This is somewhat
parasitic ... since if the players that actually were paying for
software development went out of business a lot of software
development stops, modulo some number of software developers who don't
need money, food, housing, etc.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:24:13 GMT
Joe Morris writes:
<chuckle>
Since this subthread is discussing (among other things) the channel-to-
control-unit interface, does the toolkit have the official IBM tool for
inserting serpent connectors into the bus/tag connectors? I'm asking
because I can still get a chuckle out of engineers by quoting a line
from the channel OEMI where it is documenting the wiring in the
connector block. While I don't recall the IBM part number involved, one
part of the text says something along the lines of "To insert the
serpent connector into the connector block, use IBM tool p/n 123456
or a number 2 darning needle."
there is something that looks a little like a darning needle ... but
it doesn't have a part number on it (and i don't know enuf about
darning to know a no.2 from any other).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:46:14 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
telecommunications controller). He had left IBM and was giving
presentations about his business case justification for making
370-clone. I was at such a presentation in the early '70s in some
large MIT auditorium (a couple years before any amdahl processors were
shipping).
remember in the era that amdahl left, ibm was looking at producing FS
.... which had totally different infrastructure and incompatible with
360/370.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#futuresys
so part of amdahl's presentation was that even if ibm stopped
producing 370 and switched to a totally different kind of machine
... what would happen to 370-clone business? (remember he is out
raising money from investors and they would ask such a question, no
direct reference to FS ... just what-if). So amdahl presents some
numbers about the size of the customer software application install
base in 360/370 software (aka software developed by customers). Memory
is little foggy ... but I believe he used a number of well over $100
(maybe $200) billion. In any case, his conclusion was that even if
IBM switched to totally different processor architecture that day
... it would take at least another 30 years before all that software
was replaced (disappeared). In the mean time, there would be a
reasonably profitable market-niche for him (maybe a small $5-$10
billion a year) even if ibm totally walked away from it.
of course, FS was canceled and ibm kept producing 360/370 compatible
machines and customers continued investing in developing 370 platform
software.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:09:11 GMT
bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes:
So let me get this straight--you're responsible for the PCM processor
market, and the PCM processor market precipitated restricted operating
system licensing.
Does that mean I can blame you for Windows XP?
... now you might make it a little more convoluted: 1) that if we
hadn't done a pcm controller, 2) ibm wouldn't have launced fs, 3) if
ibm didn't launce fs, maybe amdahl wouldn't have left ibm to do a pcm
processor, and 4) if there weren't pcm processors, hardware vendors
wouldn't have started charging for operating systems.
however (effectively given the size of the opportunity) there were
other pcm controller efforts ... as well as pcm processor efforts.
some acorn drift:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#79 Coulda, Woulda, Shoudda moments?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#31 diffence between itanium and alpha
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#9 IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#19 PC history, was PDP10 and RISC
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:15:11 GMT
bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes:
So let me get this straight--you're responsible for the PCM processor
market, and the PCM processor market precipitated restricted operating
system licensing.
part of story of first amdahl install at big, blue commercial
mainframe account:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#44 WHAT IS A MAINFRAME???
it was actually a little more complicated .... including getting told
that never, ever in my career would i get a promotion.
random other amdahl refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#2 IBM S/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#188 Merced Processor Support at it again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#190 Merced Processor Support at it again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#191 Merced Processor Support at it again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#209 Core (word usage) was anti-equipment etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#8 IBM Linux
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#48 WHAT IS A MAINFRAME???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#61 "all-out" vs less aggressive designs (was: Re: 36 to 32 bit transition)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#21 Competitors to SABRE? Big Iron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#58 Why not an IBM zSeries workstation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#11 Amdahl Exits Mainframe Market
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#12 Amdahl Exits Mainframe Market
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#68 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#69 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#18 Disk caching and file systems. Disk history...people forget
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#63 Are the L1 and L2 caches flushed on a page fault ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#12 Now early Arpanet security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#28 So long, comp.arch
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#56 Why SMP at all anymore?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#67 Original S/360 Systems - Models 60,62 70
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#73 7090 vs. 7094 etc.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#35 Imitation...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#70 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#19 SIMTICS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#35 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#23 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#17 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#18 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#47 five-nines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#22 Hercules, OCO, and IBM missing a great opportunity
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#83 CM-5 Thinking Machines, Supercomputers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#85 The demise of compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#90 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#24 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#44 Calculating a Gigalapse
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#50 Microcode?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#3 Chip Emulators - was How does a chip get designed?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#4 IBM Mainframe at home
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#14 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#48 flags, procedure calls, opinions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#51 IBM 360 definition (Systems Journal)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#68 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#0 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#73 Where did text file line ending characters begin?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#12 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#17 AS/400 and MVS - clarification please
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#19 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#20 MVS on Power (was Re: McKinley Cometh...)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#45 M$ SMP and old time IBM's LCMP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#46 M$ SMP and old time IBM's LCMP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#75 30th b'day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#58 IBM S/370-168, 195, and 3033
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#14 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#40 Linux paging
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#44 Linux paging
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#48 Linux paging
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#54 Newbie: Two quesions about mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#31 Collating on the S/360-2540 card reader?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#9 Mainframe System Programmer/Administrator market demand?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#36 mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#37 Calculating expected reliability for designed system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#56 Wild hardware idea
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#65 Amdahl's VM/PE information/documentation sought
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:36:02 GMT
"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
On the other hand, companies such as Amdahl merely exploited a
pricing structure that didn't accurately reflect costs. I'm sure
IBM didn't look upon it as a weakness at the time, but it was they
who created it. Amdahl just took advantage of it.
in some ways; ... however, nobody in the industry had any real
experience with separate pricing for software, not the manufactures and
not the customers. the industry, customers, and manufactures were all
comfortable with bundled, integrated, tested operational package
... hardware and software.
the gov. changed all that with the litigation and unbundling for ibm;
it took quite a while for both ibm and customers to adjust to separate
pricing and packaging for hardware, software, services, etc
the idea that you could get a computer from one company and the
operating system from some other company was pretty radical. the
concept that one company's operating system would even boot on another
company's computer was extremely radical.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: cp/67 35th anniversary
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:46:46 GMT
"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
When that happened to me, I had a smart instructor. He brought me
up to the front of the room and had me do the lecture, and sat back
and put his feet up.
i guess part of the problem was that i wasn't enrolled in the class, i
wasn't suppose to be there. i was at loose ends first shift ... so i
just wandered up and down the halls of the different floors of the
bldg. looking for stuff that might be interesting. he sort of
tolerated that i had wandered in ... and it was probably that some of
the stuff i mentioned was not understandable given the level of
understanding of the students.
later I used to do similar to that at the science center ... there
were all these MIT and BU (probably some others from harvard, tufts,
etc .... I just remember some MIT and BU now) students that had access
to the system (which was a real challenge since some of the
corporations most sensitive data also lived on that machine).
they would periodically come up with something of interest ... and the
tack was then assign them responsibility for it. It was also somewhat
wierd that these kids (at least early on) ... were all older than me.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 00:11:15 GMT
"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
On the other hand, companies such as Amdahl merely exploited a
pricing structure that didn't accurately reflect costs. I'm sure
IBM didn't look upon it as a weakness at the time, but it was they
who created it. Amdahl just took advantage of it.
and of course ... from the future system reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#16
ibm had significant higher R&D costs .... looking back at some of the
things 30, 40 years later .... it may not seem all that apparent that
possibly hundreds of person years went into arriving at some of the
things ... which were then picked up nearly for free by some of the
clones.
i don't think that even amdahl believed that there was long term
viability for specific cloning activity ... they could take advantage
of temporary niche and make some bucks (possibly several billion a
year) for a short window (maybe 20-30 years) of time.
also (at the mit auditorium presentation in the early '70s) there was
some accusation that amdahl's effort was being underwritten as a
market penetration study from another country (he didn't have to make
them money ... relatively inexpensive experiment testing the
opposition on what worked and what didn't work).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:42:38 GMT
Joseph Seigh writes:
You mean Frederick Taylor maybe? Management loved these guys because
their "studies" reinforced their views of workers and their proper place
in the scheme of things. It's no wonder labor hated them.
not only as machines ... but as interchangeable machines ... it is one
thing to train a person to do as well as possible ... it is a
completely different thing to treat that training as stamping out
identical, replaceable parts. the corollary is frequently then that
all effort has to be reduced to the lowest common denominator.
a mentioned before, the boyd scenario that the US going into WW-II had
few highly skilled warriors .... the training window was to turn out
large numbers of warriers with minimum skills as quickly as possible
... which then fit into a tightly controlled infrastructure to
maximize the few skilled warriors managing large numbers of minmally
skilled warriors as effeciently as possible. the thesis then was that
the officers that got their training in managing large organizations
in ww-II ... started coming of age as executives in commercial
companies by the '70s ... with tightly controlled/structured top-down
management with large numbers of replaceable, identically skilled
workers.
he somewhat used this in the contrasts presented in his talk, organic
design for command and control.
nytimes had recent book review of his latest biography.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:18:10 GMT
Terje Mathisen writes:
By always buttoning the shirt from the top down, it is much easier to
avoid off-by-one/fencepost errors (See! A comp.arch relevant idea!).
this reminds me a little of the full-screen editor wars in the early
'70s .... whether scroll up/down referred to the movement with respect
to the file (program centric) or with respect to the screen (as a
window over the file, person-centric). "scroll up" could mean moving
the file "up" ... so what was viewed was closer to the end of the file
... or moving the screen/window up so what was viewed was closer to
the top of the file.
with respect to micromamanagement ... as stated, boyd's thesis was it
was a left-over characteristic from ww-II ... where a few commanders
(with any experience) had to tightly control hundreds of thousands of
troops that had no idea what they were doing ... and large numbers of
young officers were given this indoctrination as being the best
example of how to run an organization.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 15:43:04 GMT
Pete Fenelon writes:
re: shirts - easiest to start from the bottom if like me you always wear
them open-necked. (I think it's about 18 months since I last wore a
tie).
i sometimes put on tie for corporate award pictures (somehow from long
ago and far away)
http://vm.marist.edu/~piper/party/jph-12.html#wheeler
but notice that i was wearing my red wool hiking shirt ... not a
jacket.
and from vm/370 30th b'day party at Share in san fran last aug.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/LynnWheeler023.jpg
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 16:45:51 GMT
eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:
He has more than one?
You and GAM pushing this book.
mind of war, john boyd and american security, hammond, 2001
boyd, the fighter pilot who changed the art of war, coram, 2002
refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
also
war, chaos, and business, modern business strategy
http://www.belisarius.com/
defense and the national interest
http://www.d-n-i.net/
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: A Speculative question
Newsgroups: alt.os.multics,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 18:55:59 GMT
"Charlie Spitzer" writes:
actually, since jobs ran next, what if he chose multics instead of
mach as the kernel?
mach had some experience about being portable across some number of
different platforms. random mach refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#45 Early attempts at console humor?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#14 IBM's announcement on RVAs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#27 OCF, PC/SC and GOP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#35 cc SMP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#73 Unisys A11 worth keeping?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#46 Horror stories: high system call overhead
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#50 Origin of Kerberos
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:09:56 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
i sometimes put on tie for corporate award pictures (somehow from long
ago and far away)
http://vm.marist.edu/~piper/party/jph-12.html#wheeler
also
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4a John Hartmann's Birthday Party
trivia from the above.
if DataHub project hadn't been canceled and the ip/work allowed to to
to the subcontracting company ... they may have been one less pc
company .... starts with an N ...
if the decision at the referenced PASC meeting had gone differently,
they would have been called IBM workstations ... instead of ....
the conference was 21 years ago last week ....
one of the things being looked at was 370 simulators on different
kinds of processors (sort of antecedent to current crop of '86-based
370 simulators)
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: shirts
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:45:38 GMT
Charles Richmond writes:
I don't know about rainy evenings, but Claude Shannon
used to ride unicycles...
we used to deal with company called cyclotomics ... which was bought
up by kodak. one of the founders was berlekamp ... was eventually told
(by number of people) that he was famous for riding unicycle around
campus. I can find references to berlekamp talking about shannon's
unicycles
http://www.calit2.net/news/2002/8-13-award.html
http://www.geometry.net/detail/scientists/shannon_claude.html
but no actual reference to berlekamp riding unicycle
http://math.berkeley.edu/~berlek/
http://math.berkeley.edu/~berlek/cyclo.html
http://www.ishipress.com/berlekam.htm
we also had former grad student of reed's from jpl/caltech on the
project (and stranger still, he remembered having taken class from
anne's father at mit) ... yes, it had something to do with
reed-solomon encoding
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#28 Log Structured filesystems -- think twice
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#115 What is the use of OSI Reference Model?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#210 AES cyphers leak information like sieves
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#80 Disks size growing while disk count shrinking = bad performance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#71 Encryption + Error Correction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#53 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#53 Free Desktop Cyber emulation on PC before Christmas
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: A Speculative question
Newsgroups: alt.os.multics,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:55:39 GMT
bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes:
This is definitely one of the more interesting accounts I've heard in
relation to Taligent's OS. I've been curious about different operating
systems since I was in college; on learning about Pink / Taligent, my
hopes were high for it, but then it disappeared from the radar.
somewhat analogous to pink morphing into taligent ... spring morphed
into java (and when taligent folded ... java soft moved into their
building ... some people claiming to have kept their same office).
random past:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#46 Where are they now : Taligent and Pink
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#6 Java as a first programming language for cs students
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#32 Whom Do Programmers Admire Now???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#76 Difference between Unix and Linux?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#60 The next big things that weren't
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#45 IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 04:12:30 GMT
"del cecchi" writes:
If you page forward or down in a book, you move towards the end of
the book. I still don't quite get the conflict. And I guess I was
too insulated inside the IBM reservation to conceive that hitting
PF8 (page forward) could have any meaning other than go towards the
end of the file. Did these bizarre folk open the file with the
window at end of file?
Please, identify the people on the other side of this "full screen
editor war" so I can stay far away from them.
long ago and far away ... edgar was early 3270 full screen editor
... and used program centric semantics.
original cms edit (possibly back to ctss?) semantics had line up/down
(up towards the top of the file and down towards the bottom of the
file) ... and then used page up/down in similar manner.
edgar moved the file up (so the view was towards the end of the file)
and the file down (so the view was towards the top of the file).
random ref: historical manuals ...
http://ukcc.uky.edu/~ukccinfo.391/cmsref.html
Fifth Edition, February 1984
· This edition replaces the UKCC CJS Reference and the UKCC CMS
Programming Supplement.
· Numerous changes have been made to reflect the new features
available with Release 3 of VM/SP.
· The default settings of PF10, PF11, and PF12 under XEDIT have
changed.
· XEDIT no longer supports EDGAR simulation mode, and the EDGAR and
ECOMMAND commands are no longer available.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 04:23:40 GMT
part of the issue was that positioning commands .... tended to move
the current position (cursor) ... as to the current position in the
file. if i'm just moving the current position within a screen
... moving the postion/cursor up tends to move the position/cursor
towards the start of the file, and moving the position/cursor down
tends to move the position/cursor towards the end of the file.
so program centric that scrolled/paged up/down ... was with respect to
moving the file ... would tend to have the "page up" move the file up
... and the cursor (current position) moved down towards the end of
the file. however if it was just cursor (current position) within the
screen ... you now are faced with moving the current position (aka
cursor) "up" actually means to move it down on the screen.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:43:24 GMT
jmfbahciv writes:
Thank you, thank you, thank you for talking about this. Now
I know why using that web stuff made me feel like my only
gear was reverse and all I want to do is plod forward. It
also explains (to me, anyway) why those pointers seem to
behave illogically (to me, anyway). Maybe I won't have to
wrestle anymore. :-)
i actually have a tv controller that sort of works in the reverse; if
i'm in the channel menu, pushing the up arrow, scrolls the menu
towards the lower numbered channels. however if i'm actually watching
a channel, pushing the up arrow, switches to the next higher numbered
channel.
for full screen edit ... the simplest comparison is start with a file
that completely displays on one screen. a person-centric view moving
the current position "up", moves towards the beginning of the file and
"down", moves towards the end of the file (bottom of the screen).
a program/file centric view moving the current position "up" moves
towards the bottom of the screen and the end of the file.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: A Speculative question
Newsgroups: alt.os.multics,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:08:51 GMT
westinnospam@graphics.cornell.edu (Stephen H. Westin) writes:
I figured it was doomed from the moment of the Apple/IBM technological
merger on the project. At least a year was lost, I'm sure, in
political maneuvers and competing technical approaches.
the person eventually put in technical charge on the ibm side had
recently moved from MCC (austin) to IBM (austin) ... effectively across
MoPac (and was at MCC from bellcore).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: A Speculative question
Newsgroups: alt.os.multics
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 17:27:51 GMT
westinnospam@graphics.cornell.edu (Stephen H. Westin) writes:
The "small systems" of the late '80s were, of course, in the same
class as the mainframes of the early '70s that defined Multics. I bet
that, in terms of code size and speed, Multics would have been more
efficient than Mach or Unix of the late '80s.
i claimed that I did paging better than multics during the '70s ...
(i was on the 4th floor of 545 tech. sq) and the machines of the late
'80s had significantly larger real storage. There were some number of
scaling thru the '80s & '90s. It wouldn't be a real issue on a
desktop machine that really wasn't expected to do a lot (for a
constrained environment, everything gets loaded into the larger real
memory and paging isn't an issue).
a total unrelated scaling example is the finwait list for unix's of
the mid'90s. there was trivial, small code for the tcp/ip finwait list
for checking on dangling finwaits.
http was basically a transaction protocol but built using tcp anyway
... previously tcp were long running sessions ... even with a large
number, the finwait list never was of a significant issue. With the
huge rate of tcp setup/teardown introduced with http ... some unixes
saw the finwait list grow to thousands and even tens of thousands and
for a time, some had over 90 percent of the CPU time spent in the
small, simple finwait scan.
I believe one of the first to fix this was sequent ... for a time it
seemed like netscape was adding unix servers every couple weeks
... and there was no front-end load-balance ... people were manually
selecting different "netscape1", "netscape2", etc. Somewhere along the
way, they replaced all the multiple servers with a single large-scale
sequent server.
in any case, scale-up issues can bite you unexpectedly ... trivial,
simple, efficient linear scans that use to work ... suddenly become a
major problem.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Use of SSL as a VPN
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:25:46 GMT
daw@mozart.cs.berkeley.edu (David Wagner) writes:
(The "V" refers to "Virtual". According to the story of the name
that I've heard, a VPN is intended to emulate the semantics of a
private circuit as you describe above, but without needing the private
circuit. I'm not a telecom engineer, and maybe they have some other
good claim to the term, but using VPN to refer to a PN sounds dubious
to me.)
I believe a paper on the thing commonly referred to as VPN in the
internet world was introduced in one of the IETF router committees in
the fall of '94 (san jose?) ... aka router-to-router traffic
encrypted (based on some work somebody had done deploying such an
implementation).
http://www.blueridgenetworks.com/about-history.html
http://www.nwfusion.com/newsletters/vpn/2002/01236841.html
the earlier definition was private internet with direct private
line between two known parties ... aka
http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/archives/WWW-TALK/www-talk-1994q3/0439.html
san jose meeting:
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94dec/toc.html
up until then, the primary IETF focus was ipsec providing end-to-end
authentication and encryption. the introduction of tunneling in the
router committee caused some amount of consternation in the ipsec
committee ... as well as with some vendors. Within a month of the
meeting .... there was at least one vendor that announced a new "vpn"
product ... that basically was a standard router box with standard
hardware link encryptors out-board of the box (as opposed to the
encrypted tunneling actually handled inside the router box). However,
there was also announcement that month of the rourter implementation
(see attached).
the ipsec/tunneling swirled some more .... eventually with the router
tunneling getting referred to as "lightweight ipsec" (or the regular
ipsec getting referrred to as "heavyweight ipsec").
In parallel with this was small client/server startup in menlo park
doing some encryption at the application level .... in part because
the end-to-end IPSEC was taking so long to show up in real
platforms. This thing called SSL .... allowed the startup to deploy
session encryption support totally contained within the products that
they were shipping (w/o having to rely on the availability of other
infrastructures). minor ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm5.htm#asrn2
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm5.htm#asrn3
IPSEC is still taking quite a while to appear on platforms .... so you
start seeing client-side tunneling (aka client VPN) products ... at
least one such from the person that introduced the original tunneling
paper in the '94 IETF meeting ... targeting business "road warriors".
recent discussion about a common key-exchange, encryption, and
authentication process for PPP, TCP, and SSL/TLS:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#38 How effective is open source crypto?
from my term->rfc index at:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Virtual private network (VPN)
see also encapsulate , security
3095 2917 2857 2764 2735 2685 2547 2451 2406 2405 2404 2403 2340 1851
1829 1827
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
form long ago firewalls mailing list:
From: Grant Miller <milleg@wabe.network.com>
To: Firewalls Mailing List <firewalls@greatcircle.com>
Subject: RE: Encrypting tunnels
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 94 13:14:00 CST
Sender: firewalls-owner@GreatCircle.COM
Michael Haberler wites...
>Is there anybody working on a
>{ip-authenticating,encrypting,CHAPing,DH-ing}
>
>point-to-point-tunnel ala plug-gw?
>
>This could solve some of the problems of database-access over firewalls
>(note that e.g. Oracle uses TCP out-of-band signalling and TCP keepalives,
>which probably should be catered for.).
>
>Something along the lines of a userland swIPe.
start commercial
Network Systems Corp. (NSC) has announced a security product called
"Data Privacy Facility" (DPF). It encrypts IP datagrams on a
per-packet basis, gives you the ability to select what gets encrypted
and what doesn't. DPF supports DES, IDEA, and NSC1 encryption
algorithms, MD5 for digi-signatures, uses RSA and Diffie/Hellman for
key exchange, works great, lasts long time. DPF runs on a router
(which means that you can not only encrypt traffic but establish/
control access policy as well.) There is no limit to the number of
end-stations that can use an encrypted tunnel. Encrypted packets can
be forwarded over any data-link that supports IP (frame relay, ATM,
ethernet, T/R, etc.) The first hardware platform to support DPF is a
router called (suprisingly enough!) the 'Security Router'. Future
platforms will be released that will support DPF. Cost? very
reasonable. Performance? 4 Mbs or better (depends on a bunch of stuff
- like how the thing is configured.) Want more info? www.network.com (look
for recent press releases), Contact NSC corporate HQ in lovely
Minneapolis, MN. or contact your local sales-weenie.
end commercial
Grant Miller
NSC - Bellevue, WA
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 01:06:57 GMT
eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:
I would not blame IBM or the Fed.
People were just clueless about how to price software everywhere.
somewhat later i got asked to help figure it out.
some of the stuff i had invented as undergaduate and other stuff had
shipped in official cp/67 releases. I then got offered the opportunity
to do the resource manager product .... if i would also do all the
work (packaging, documentation, be 1st, 2nd, & 3rd level problem
support for the first six months, etc). It was packaging of subset of
stuff that I had and was distributing to internal datacenters:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#45 Resource Manager
all the stuff that I had done for page mapped file system for CMS and
related performance and functional enhancements wouldn't ship. It did
include a lot of stuff that I had done for multiprocessing
structuring.
it shipped about the same time as the first PCM processor went into a
major commercial account (other than educational institutions).
in any case, I got told that it would be the first "priced" piece of
SCP code (aka kernel, operating system). Prior to this, application
software had been priced ... but this would be the first SCP pricing
.. and I got the glorious privilege of spending six months off & on
with the business people establishing the structure/rules for pricing
SCP software.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Use of SSL as a VPN
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:29:26 GMT
ediebur@rcn.com (Jerry Freedman) writes:
In early '95 I worked on a experimental gov't prototype ( TEED ) which
used SP3 tunneling ( actually SP3i if I remember correctly). This was
encryptor-to-encryptor tunneling where the encryptor was an
"invisible" device haveing no address of its own and protecting a
cluster of hosts. At that time and place the term used was Secure
Virtual Network ( SVN )
as per the attachment to previous post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#34
week after san jose ietf meeting in dec. 94, somebody from NSC posted
to firewall mailing list that NSC had announced the "secure router"
with the "Data Privacy Facility" (DPF) that did router-to-router
encrypted tunneling. At the same time, one of the other router vendors
announced a priced package which was standard router with (I believe
standard cylink) link encryptors.
ten years earlier, somebody had once told me that the internal network
had over half of all the link encryptors in the world (i think many
were cylink ... there was another name at the time, something like
california microwave?) ... aka all the internal network links that
left a bldg ... had to be encrypted (at the time, the internal network
was still larger than the internet, although the internet was now
catching up fast ... ever since the 1/1/83 switch-over).
misc posts on link encryptors & internal network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#56 Computer Naming Conventions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#9 Security Proportional to Risk (was: IBM Mainframe at home)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#11 Security Proportional to Risk (was: IBM Mainframe at home)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#52 "Slower is more secure"
some other info on internal network:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#22
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Keeping old hardware alive?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 16:43:53 GMT
andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) writes:
I used slide rules during my secondary schooling in the 1970's.
Also had a calculator then -- I think we could use either/both
in exams (and logbooks), but programmable calculators were not
allowed.
i saved up so i could buy the cheapest one from the sears catalogue
when i was 12 ... i think it was something like $3.89. no idea where
it is now.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: editors/termcap
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:00:24 GMT
nmm1@cus.cam.ac.uk (Nick Maclaren) writes:
You don't want to know, I can assure you :-) And you REALLY don't
want ever to come across the original TSO editor (to which I was
referring)!
But, since you ask, it was an IBM MVT (and MFT?) program that took
a dataset with sequence numbers in columns 73-80 and changed, deleted
or inserted records by sequence number. If the original file had them
out of order, heaven help you.
The TSO editor was similar, but had an extension by which the sequence
numbers were in columns 1-8 for variable length record files. I never
did discover anyone who found a use for that facility.
and the CMS "update" command started out similar (from mid-60s,
original CMS). it was also the basis that grew into the CP/CMS source
maintenance infrastructure.
misc refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#57 line length (was Re: Babble from "JD" <dyson@jdyson.com>)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#71 line length (was Re: Babble from "JD" <dyson@jdyson.com>)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#39 CMS update
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#2 IBM OS source code
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#62 Card Columns
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#44 filesystem structure, was tape format (long post)
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: editors/termcap
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:46:20 GMT
"Hank Oredson" writes:
Personally Developed Software
IBM Personal Computers
Personal Editor II
(C) Copyright IBM Corp. 1982,1985
Written by Jim Wyllie
wyllie was at SJR ....
45696 05-05-85 10:42 PE.EXE
5313 04-26-85 17:15 PE.HLP
2447 05-05-85 10:43 PE.PRO
34 05-13-85 12:21 SPELLCHK.BAT
4382 01-15-86 09:59 PE2DIR.PRO
7416 01-13-86 12:49 PE2COLOR.COM
7754 03-01-86 12:00 PE2.HLP
76304 11-02-87 10:49 PE2.EXE
5554 11-16-87 08:19 PE2SPELL.COM
35 11-12-87 11:30 PE2ADD.PRO
779 11-12-87 11:28 PE2TODO.PRO
9581 07-09-88 17:21 SPELLC.EXE
673 06-02-87 12:47 SPELLEX1.BAT
122368 06-03-87 01:17 US.DCT
119808 11-17-87 12:48 UK.DCT
12926 03-21-88 11:14 PE2.DEF
1459 03-01-86 12:00 PE2.PRO
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IETF meeting (Re: editors/termcap)
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 18:33:17 GMT
John Stracke writes:
You mean go to the meeting in San Francisco? FYI, it's not free
(somebody's got to pay for the hotel space). On-site registration is
$575, or $150 with student ID (source:
http://www.ietf.org/meetings/rsvp_closed.html).
a little more drift from IETF meeting (and some VPN & SSL):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#34 Use of SSL as a VPN
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#36 Use of SSL as a VPN
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why we don't use homebrew crypto
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:25:36 GMT
Carlos Moreno writes:
For some curious reason, cryptography seems notorious at
having apparently correct solutions that are wrong. (well,
Murphy's Law clearly establishes that universal rule; but
cryptography seems to do the best job at enforcing it :-))
consider cryptography to be engineering and compare with any other
engineering endevor .... say civil engineering and bridge
building. people have been building bridges for a couple thousand
years or so ... and they can still get it wrong and things fall down
(ever see the film of the tacoma narrows bridge? or the line about
soldiers breaking step when marching across a bridge?).
one might claim that data obfuscation is similar to almost any other
type of engineering endevor .... and there aren't a lot of people with
extensive training in failure mode analysis (not how things are
created, but how things fail). just consider the number of computer
and internet vulnerabilities .... i would contend that the general
internet has had significantly larger number of failure/exploits than
any cryptography.
somewhat related thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#26 How effective is open source crypto?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#27 How effective is open source crypto?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#28 How effective is open source crypto? (addenda)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#29 How effective is open source crypto? (bad form)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#30 How effective is open source crypto? (aads addenda)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#31 How effective is open source crypto? (bad form)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#32 How effective is open source crypto? (bad form)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#33 How effective is open source crypto? (bad form)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#34 How effective is open source crypto? (bad form)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#35 How effective is open source crypto? (bad form)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#36 How effective is open source crypto? (bad form)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#37 How effective is open source crypto?
slightly related:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#fraud Risk, Fraud, Exploits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#assurance
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 20:39:06 GMT
"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
(On the other hand, even Timex had to start over when watches went
digital. My cheapo 20-year-old Timex digital takes a licking and
keeps on... uhh...)
i got one of the original casio databank things .... the failure is
the band. the newer databanks have this light button which seems to
get hit enuf accidentally to cut the battery life by possibly a factor
of ten. so when i can't find replacement bands ... i've been known to
buy one of the new ones and switch its band to my old watch. the
problem now is that the holes in the case for the watch-band pin have
gotten so worn that doesn't take much for the pin to fall out.
some drift to failure mode analysis in sci.crypt subject:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#41 Why we don't use homebrew crypto
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM 3174
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 00:38:02 GMT
Joe Morris writes:
The async terminals running through the Yale Series/1 IUP ran rings
around the IBM boxes even though the same line speed was used. The
remote 3270 may have been good for filling in forms where relatively
little text had to be transmitted, but as full-screen interactive
terminals they sucked. (Now, local 3270s were wonderful, but I
suspect that few but the most dedicated collectors will have a CPU
to which they could be attached today.)
somewhere there was a really caustic comparison of 3174 ... i'm not
sure if i can find it.
timing comparison of 3272/3277 & 3274/3278
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#19 3270 Protocol
other 3270, dft/anr, fifo-boxes, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#49 Edsger Dijkstra: the blackest week of his professional life
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#28 IBM S/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#69 System/1 ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#63 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#23 IBM's mess
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#33 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#46 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#17 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#32 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#43 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#77 IBM 327x terminals and controllers (was Re: Itanium2 power
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#2 IBM 327x terminals and controllers (was Re: Itanium2 power
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#6 IBM 327x terminals and controllers (was Re: Itanium2 power
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Pentium 4 - RIP?
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:49:09 GMT
"Stephen Fuld" writes:
There are certainly perils from taking such information at face
value, especially for innovative products, but if you know that
going in, you can compensate to some extent for it.
snipped your "classic example"
we weere doing things with T1s in the early to mid '80s ... and had
some installed. The (official) communication division had product
that only supported multiple 56kbit links. they commisioned a study
that asked customers how many "parallel" 56kbit links that they were
running between two locations. The results showed no data points with
over five 56kbit links between (same) two locations. Based on the
results, they concluded that they wouldn't need a product supporting T1
for another 8-10 years.
Note 1: they didn't ask how many were running T1 between two
sites (using some other vendor's product); a trivial survey found
200.
Note 2: they didn't ask what the tariff was for T1; the avg. T1 tariff
tended to be somewhere around 5-7 individual 56kbit links. one of the
reasons that there were no data points with over five (parallel)
56kbit links, was that the tarrif for a T1 tended to be cheaper than
the tarrif for six (parallel) 56kbit links.
random refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt
then there was the workstation review at PASC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4a John Hartmann's Birthday Party
http://vm.marist.edu/~piper/party/jph-12.html#wheeler
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Computer programming was all about:.....
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 15:47:36 GMT
bbreynolds@aol.comedxedl (Bruce B. Reynolds) writes:
I'd put BASIC for the 1970's, and then C and Pascal for the 1980's.
'96 m'soft developers conference at mascone ... the banners and
message was all "preserving your investment" ... there was this "new"
thing with the internet .... but all of the legacy investment, skills
and training for VB was going to be preserved.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 15:39:06 GMT
Charles Richmond writes:
Right...it should say "mentally limited"...
Here the signs say "slow school"...and when I was a kid,
it really did seem like a "slow school".
and i've advocated for years a 2ftx2ft blue bumper sticker (very hard
to remove) to be placed on the driver's windshield ... with a picture
of a head with the round/crossed not-sign for those non-physically
handicapped parking in handicapped parking space (aka for those that
are handicapped but not physically-handicapped).
one morning, about a month ago ... i noticed three different instances
of somebody pulling into a handicapped parking space, whipping out a
blue handicapped tag and hanging it on the mirror ... and getting out
of the car and navigating with no obvious physical impairment. there
have been various newspaper reports of illegal business in handicapped
tags.
recent phrase i ran across were references to two-digit and
single-digit IQs. a dilbert story-line might be somebody going thru
the building after hours putting up large blue "head" handicapped
bumper sticker on various office doors.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Public key and the authority problem
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 17:04:12 GMT
"Shannon Moncure" writes:
Pragmatic stumbling block from a newbie:
1. Distributing a public key assures a friend who sends me a message
that only I can decrypt it, but isn't it possible that someone might
impersonate me, publish a key in my name, and intercept the
encrypted messages from my friend, thus compromising what my friend
thought was a secure channel?
2. If 1 is true, then what problem has public key cryptography
really solved in terms of secure communications? It seems that now
we might as well revert to a private key scheme since the purported
benefit of no shared-secrets doesn't give my friend any guarantees.
two processes are
1) web-of-trust ... like PGP, where there is a table of public keys,
who they relate to, and level of trust. basically the level of trust
information is updated using out-of-band information.
2) PKI .... where you keep a table of public keys that belong to
certification authorities. basically these tables are usually
preloaded by some application and usually the entries are all or
nothing ... something is in the table or not in the table ... so you
don't have the levels of trust for CAs that you have with various
web-of-trust implementations. CAs then issue credentials as to the
binding between public key and some assertion (like email address)
that they have used some process to certify. the incoming email has
these credentials attached as to the certification of the binding
between public key and some assertion (email address, etc). You trust
whatever assertions are certified by a trusted CA.
The issue with shared-secrets isn't that they don't work, but that
they have extremely difficult time scalling. There is a unique
shared-secret required for every domain, your friend might need a unique
shared-secret for every different entity that they communicate with
... since they don't one "friend" impersonating them with some other
"friend".
basically a shared-secret is used for both
a) originating a message/transaction
b) authenticating a message/transaction.
In the single isolated case, a shared-secret does the job .... but
adopting shared-secret as an infrastructure paradigm results in the
need for possibly hundreds of shared-secrets per entity. This also
shows up with shared-secret passwords where individuals might have to
track multiple tens of passwords. The "authenticating" entity deals
with the same number of authenticating objects (one per entity they
communicate with) ... but the originating entity instead of having a
single originating object (private key) ... has one per domain (shared-secret)
public key is asymmetric and can only be used for authenticating a
message/transaction, but not originating a message/transaction (modulo
secreacy vis-a-vis authentication). This provides the capability that
a single public key can be used across a large number of different
domains.
a trivial scenario is say RADIUS became pervasive for not only the
majority of PPP authentications (aka ISP connections) but also
webserver and other environmental operations requiring any sort of
authentication. RADIUS, on an account basis supports a number of
different authentication operations, but most "accounts" in the world
today are defined as password-authenticated. This probably is that the
shared-secret paradigm results in tens or possibly hundreds of
different shared-secrets for an individual to manage. Providing a
simple "digital signature" authentication option would allow an entity
to register their same public key in every domain .... rather than a
different, unique shared-secret in every domain (simple form is that
in place of registering a password at account setup, a public key is
registered at account setup .... the registration business process
doesn't change ... just some technology nits). misc. radius refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#radius
similarly, kerberos is the internet standard basis for windows and
other platform authentication; currently password (shared-secret)
based paradigm. However, there is pk-init internet draft for kerberos
that allows for initial authentication with digital signature (or
public key) that would allow registering a public key for the account
in place of registering a password (shared-secret). misc. kerberos
refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#kerberos
note that some number of the institutional exploits involving
fradulant password/shared-secret extracts are eliminated with
non-shared-secret paradigm ... like impersonation calls to obtain a
forgotten entry (aka extracting your public key from an institution is
significantly lower vulnerability than extracting your password).
random refs to shared-secrets and vulnerabilities/exploits:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#bio3 biometrics (addenda)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#bio7 biometrics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#17 Alternative to Microsoft Passport: Sunshine vs Hai
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#20 IBM alternative to PKI?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#57 eBay Customers Targetted by Credit Card Scam
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#60 signing & authentication (was Credit Card Scam)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#23 Certificate Policies (was Re: Trivial PKI Question)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#235 Attacks on a PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#4 Why trust root CAs ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#42 PKI and Non-repudiation practicalities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#54 PKI and Non-repudiation practicalities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#5 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#7 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#58 Net banking, is it safe???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#25 Net banking, is it safe???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#36 Net banking, is it safe???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#57 E-commerce security????
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#0 E-commerce security????
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#2 E-commerce security????
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#9 E-commerce security????
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#49 Are client certificates really secure?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#52 Are client certificates really secure?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#34 A thought on passwords
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#10 Opinion on smartcard security requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#18 Opinion on smartcard security requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#45 Biometric Encryption: the solution for network intruders?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#14 Symmetric-Key Credit Card Protocol on Web Site
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#18 Symmetric-Key Credit Card Protocol on Web Site
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#14 So how does it work... (public/private key)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#30 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#56 Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 22:29:10 GMT
D.J. writes:
I know someone with a hip replacement, she is under 30 years old,
and she doesn't look like she needs a handicap sticker. She can
walk short distances, but not very far, before she then needs a
cane. Sometimes she needs a cane, or wheelchair, or she can walk
without such aid. It depends on many factors.
young male, carrying something. another indication was that they
didn't have a handicapped license plate .... nor (as mentioned) drove
with the handicapped placard hanging from their mirror. they
specifically whipped out the handicapped placard and hung it from
their mirror as they were getting out of the vehicle.
it was combination of many factors .... 1) young, 2) male, 3) carrying
something, 4) not having permanently displayed handicapped indication
5) only leaving a handicapped indication when they weren't in the
vehicle, 6) recent series of articles on illegal traffic in handicap
placards.
There is an associated implication is that a healthy person would only
want the placard displayed minimum amount of absolutely necessary time
to reduce risk of identification ... and not displayed otherwise.
most real handicapped drivers I've seen have permanent display (or at
least something that they move around when they are in possession of a
specific vehicle). .... however if a non-handicapped person had it
displayed permanently and got pulled over for any other reason
.... they have a much higher likelyhood of getting also hit with
having an illegal handicap placard.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 22:34:15 GMT
D.J. writes:
I know someone with a hip replacement, she is under 30 years old,
and she doesn't look like she needs a handicap sticker. She can
walk short distances, but not very far, before she then needs a
cane. Sometimes she needs a cane, or wheelchair, or she can walk
without such aid. It depends on many factors.
I've also seen reference to various kinds of illegal parking
credentials (not just handicapped placards) being highly prized by
people that make lots of pickup and/or deliveries.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 02:50:05 GMT
"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
Apparently in your area such parking regulations are more strictly
enforced for delivery vehicles than they are here in Vancouver,
where delivery vehicles seem to have some sort of exemption. Once
while coming out of an underground parking lot downtown my view of
the street was blocked by a large step-van parked 10 feet beyond
the edge of the last legal parking space along the sidewalk. I had
to nose out into the street just to see whether anyone was coming.
I did this slowly enough to give any approaching traffic a chance
to stop or go around me. But the person who was coming (another
delivery driver, in a normal sedan) was off in la-la land - what
brought my presence to her attention was the impact as she plowed
head-on into my left front quarter panel. Fortunately I was in my
Suburban - I just pried our bumpers apart and drove away, while her
front end was turned into scrap metal.
been almost 4 years since i was in vancouver ... either bc or
washington.
http://www.cacr.math.uwaterloo.ca/conferences/1999/isw-june/third-announcement.html
driving across from the border into downtown seemed like main
thuroughfare was mostly residential streets.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: A Speculative question
Newsgroups: alt.os.multics,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 04:47:17 GMT
Deborah Gronke Bennett writes:
Sun's Spring didn't morph into Java. The well-known story is that
what is now Java was invented as part of the Green project, then changed its
name to Oak, and then to Java. (The Green project was running
in late 1992 or early 1993 when I was briefly involved).
The group eventually became First Person, then was later folded back
into the larger body of Sun.
i had posted in the indicated reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#32 Whom Do Programmers Admire Now???
from (hardcopy): "A Spring Collection: A Collection of Papers on the
Spring Distributed Object-Oriented Operating System"`
which seemed in some way related to client-side interpreters? this
particular`paper was originally published in the ACM Workshop on
Interface Languages, January, 1994 (in fact, most of the papers in the
publication were published in 1993 or 1994 in various ACM, IEEE, or
USENIX publications). however I had no personal knowledge of its
contribution to java
At the time of the paper, one of the people involved in the TIC chip
http://sunsite.belnet.be/doc/sun_whitepapers/1156_descr.html
was talking to my wife and me about becoming involved in Spring ... in
part because we had spent some time early on with regard to SCI
... and also somewhat related:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
the old url to spring papers had gone 404 ... but did find this:
http://java.sun.com/people/kgh/spring/
http://java.sun.com/people/kgh/spring/papers.html
and also ran across green ...
http://java.sun.com/people/jag/green/index.html
and early history of java
http://java.sun.com/features/1998/05/birthday.html
--
A Client-Side Stub Interpreter
Peter B. Kessler
Abstract
We have built a research operating system in which all services are
presented through interfaces described by an interface description
language. The system consists of a micro-kernel that supports a small
number of these interfaces, and a large number of interfaces that are
implemented by user-level code. A typical service implements one or
more interfaces, but is a client of many other interfaces that are
implemented elsewhere in the system. We have an interface compiler
that generates client-side and service-side stubs to deliver calls
from clients to services providing location transparency if the client
and server are in different address spaces. The code for client-side
stubs was occupying a large amount of the text space on our clients,
so a stub interpreter was written to replace the client-side stub
methods. The result was that we traded 125k bytes of stub code for 13k
bytes of stub descriptions and 4k bytes of stub interpreter. This
paper describes the stub interpreter, the stub descriptions, and
discusses some alternatives.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: MP cost effectiveness
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 14:41:41 GMT
jmfbahciv writes:
And one of those people is me^WI. I have all my body parts;
but I only have about six cents' worth of
energy available each day (you have millions of cents). A
difference of three extra steps I don't have to make will keep
me from having to lay down for the next three days. I've been
learning how manage my energy expenditure better so I don't get
into the "three extra steps" decision any more. I've had
days where I didn't have the energy to digest a meal, let alone
expend the energy to physically spoon it into my mouth.
Now, notice where they put those damned handicap parking slots.
A lot of them a long ways away from the door.
anne complains because i prefer to pull into the first parking slot at
the opposite end from the store(s) and walk .... it is even sometimes
faster than the teenagers driving up and down the isles looking for
the abolutely closest slot. it really gets crazy sometimes at malls
when there are half dozen or so doing it ... and then grid lock when
somebody is spotted that might just possibly back-out of the
absolutely best parking spot.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Columbia, MD and the social impact of Ft. Meade/NSA?
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 14:58:42 GMT
djohn37050@aol.com (DJohn37050) writes:
Columbia is a super-planned city built as an experiment, to hide the
ugly stuff with berms and twisty roads and enhance the pretty stuff.
However, I think the experiment failed as you do not see much of
this elsewhere. They need signs everywhere to tell you how to find
a gas