List of Archived Posts
2003 Newsgroup Postings (2/16 - 3/10)
- big buys was: Tubes in IBM 1620?
- iso 8583
- IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
- IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
- New England Winter Drivers
- iso 8583
- Surprising discovery
- Low-end processors (again)
- IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
- IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
- Low-end processors (again)
- osi archeological reference from ietf-pkix list
- diffence between itanium and alpha
- COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
- OT: Attaining Perfection
- CA-RAMIS
- Card Columns
- CA-RAMIS
- Efficent Digital Signature Schemes
- PC history, was PDP10 and RISC
- COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
- PDP10 and RISC
- Which Editor
- CPU Impact of degraded I/O
- CPU Impact of degraded I/O
- Which Editor
- Antiquity of Byte-Word addressing?
- [urgent] which OSI layer is SSL located?
- Why only 24 bits on S/360?
- SSL questions
- SSL questions
- Why only 24 bits on S/360?
- IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
- Why only 24 bits on S/360?
- YKYBHTLW
- Why only 24 bits on S/360?
- Why only 24 bits on S/360?
- Why only 24 bits on S/360?
- The PDP-1 - games machine?
- IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
- Authentification vs Encryption in a system to system interface
- Why only 24 bits on S/360?
- Authentification vs Encryption in a system to system interface
- IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
- Why only 24 bits on S/360?
- IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
- unix
- IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
- The PDP-1 - games machine?
- unix
- unix
- Antiquity of Byte-Word addressing?
- PDP10 and RISC
- Reviving Multics
- Filesystems
- Another light on the map going out
- Another light on the map going out
- Another light on the map going out
- POWER hashes vs tree
- unix
- Bitnet again was: unix
- Another light on the map going out
- ARPAnet again: Bitnet again was: unix
- ARPAnet again: Bitnet again was: unix
- IBM was: VAX again: unix
- unix
- unix
- unix
- unix
- unix
- DOS trivia question
- SSL/TLS DHE suites and short exponents
- cp/67 35th anniversary
- unix
- unix
- unix
- reviving Multics
- 'Boyd': A military Strategist's Emphasis on Speed
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: big buys was: Tubes in IBM 1620?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:05:49 GMT
eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:
That wasn't unique to 4341s. That happened with DEC VAX-11/780s and
before that PDP-11s, PDP-8s, and IBM Series/1 machines. The only place
you didn't see that was in high end computing. These mass purchases
created havoc for smaller lot purchasers. That's why one site I worked
for with an order for 300 minis got awarded to some obscure firm because
DEC was too busy working on a 500 CPU order.
similar thread re: vax with world-wide ship numbers (thru '87):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 Computers in Science Fiction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#20 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it
one of the the things we looked at when we were doing ha/cmp
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#1 Blade architctures
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: iso 8583
Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:37:21 GMT
"Rohit" writes:
Why do u think there is so much work going on in coverting iso 8583
format to xml ?
I mean do u think it is going to solve any problem
it may be the reverse .... some number of people are looking at
defining all sorts of xml infrastructures ... and it would appear that
some number of these might include the concept of transfer of money or
at least the ability to be able to generate a payment
transactions. one of the straight-forward mechanisms would be to find
out what elemants are required in 8583 payment transactions and make
sure there is some mapping from the xml environment to the 8583
environment (aka making sure that an xml originated something or
other included enuf of the necessary data elements to be able to
generate something that passed for a valid 8583 transaction at some
gateway).
an example might be the ECML (electronic commerce modeling language)
standardization work going on in ietf/internet. they aren't trying to
define an 8583 transaction in xml. I believe they do want to have
something that looks and tastes like xml .... and include the ability
to initiate funds transfer as part of the operation (for some sort of
value eachange ... aka want to buy something and need to pay for
it). to that extent, there could easily be some reality check to see
if the ECML definition included sufficient field definitions/coverage
from which a real 8583 payment transaction might be generated.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay6.htm#ecml Electronic Commerce Modeling Language
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay10.htm#14 Electronic Commerce Modeling Language (ECML): Version 2 Specification (draft)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay10.htm#28 Electronic Commerce Modeling Language (ECML):Version 2 Specification
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#4 misc. IETF e-commerce announcements (from IOTP working group)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#42 IBM was/is: Imitation...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#7 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#46 Whom Do Programmers Admire Now???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#36 Net banking, is it safe???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#52 Are client certificates really secure?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#49 XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#20 Card Columns
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#59 Wanted: Weird Programming Language
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
monopoly
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:40:59 GMT
bill@gw5.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
History of X
In 1984 the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) formed Project
Athena. The goal was to take the existing assortment of incompatible
workstations from different vendors and develop a network of graphical
workstations that could be used as teaching aids. The solution was a
network that could run local applications while being able to call on
remote resources. They thus created the first operating environment
that was truly hardware and vendor independent - the X Window System.
athena news letters from 84 & 85:
http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/system/usrdoc/athena/newsletter/
some past athena related posts. dec & ibm jointly/equally funded
athena. there were reps from both companies at project athena:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#30 Drive letters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#35a Drive letters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#37 What is MVS/ESA?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#64 distributed locking patents
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#20 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#33 John Mashey's greatest hits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#54 Unisys A11 worth keeping?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#32 I found the Olsen Quote
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#18 cost of crossing kernel/user boundary
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#46 Horror stories: high system call overhead
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#50 Origin of Kerberos
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
monopoly
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 02:04:36 GMT
koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
I wonder who writees this stuff, the latest batch of kids? I recall
trying to port around hardware and vendor independent graphics stuff
from the 70s.
And X11 alone isn't an operating environment, its just a begining of
a GUI.
you still had terminal rooms ... except in project athena case they
eventually became workstation rooms (workstations were still too
expensive for every student to have one) .... sort of half dec
workstations and half (ibm) pc/rt. they were on a lan connected to
various university servers. the concept was that you could walk up to
any machine, sit down ... and with a few magic keystrokes you had your
complete personalized computing environment.
see previous post with:
http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/system/usrdoc/athena/newsletter/
as in the 10/1/84 newsletter:
http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/system/usrdoc/athena/newsletter/84-10-01
the terminal rooms started out with pc/xt
and as in
http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/system/usrdoc/athena/newsletter/85-09
unix service start out with 45 vax 11/750 running unix timesharing.
also in the above. there is an introduction to "The X Window System"
by Win Treeese (getting started on a VS100). There is reference
to more about x in:
http://www.mit.edu/afs/athena/system/usrdoc/athena/newsletter/85-05
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: New England Winter Drivers
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:44:26 GMT
hawk@slytherin.ds.psu.edu (Dr. Richard E. Hawkins) writes:
U.S. Marines, not Royal Marines :)
Each MRE is about 2 pounds, and these guys are sent out with 100+ lbs on
their backs. They stripped down the meals and tossed everything but the
high-carb stuff before they left. They also replaced their GI GPS
systems with one from a sporting goods store that used the same
batteries as something else in their packs, and made a few more
modifications.
Much will be standard issue soon; the CO listened to the email from the
sergeant, and passed it up . . .
somebody had a bright idea and had the knife upgraded with a compass
in the end of the knife handle ... right where you use it as a
hammer. the first thing to go was the compass.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: iso 8583
Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:40:27 GMT
"Rohit" writes:
So u think that xml could be a good substitute to iso 8583.
Morever i feel that it could end the proprietary and fixed format issues.
eliza, right?
normally eliza does things like ... why do you feel that way ... or
why would you believe that.
the parser in this version of eliza doesn't seem to be able to
understand the contradiction in calling an international standard,
proprietary. the other part ... probably isn't really a parser problem
... not having been feed & understood iso8583 ... the parser wouldn't
realize the contridction re the part about fixed format.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Surprising discovery
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:20:25 GMT
Robert Myers writes:
Some dates:
1972 NASA F8 experimental fly-by-wire
1981 Boeing 767 computer-in-the-cockpit, partially fly-by-wire
1984 Airbus A320 fully fly-by-wire
1995 Boeing 777 fully fly-by-wire
drift, boyd's f16 ... 1976-1979
http://www.af.mil/news/factsheets/F_16_Fighting_Falcon.html
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-16.htm
http://www.f16falcon.com/facts/f16_1.html
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/f016.html
http://www.jetplanes.co.uk/f16.html
misc. boyd refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Low-end processors (again)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:22:45 GMT
IBM-MAIN@ISHAM-RESEARCH.COM (Phil Payne) writes:
Since systems aren't licensed by their I/O capacity and most VSE
workloads have high I/O content, it seems that this is an area where
vendors might compete on performance and thus where any benchmarks
should be.
one might assert that just about all commercial application have been
i/o bound since possibly the mid-70s ... and any apparent processor
intensive activity might be a subject for some investigation.
random past musings:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#5 360/67, was Re: IBM's Project F/S ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#29 Log Structured filesystems -- think twice
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#1 Multitasking question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#29 IA64 Self Virtualizable?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#143 OS/360 (and descendents) VM system?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#93 Predictions and reality: the I/O Bottleneck
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#36 Optimal replacement Algorithm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#69 Block oriented I/O over IP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#56 any 70's era supercomputers that ran as slow as today's supercomputers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#59 JFSes: are they really needed?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#19 I hate Compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#56 Contiguous file system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#5 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#1 Microcode? (& index searching)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#4 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#29 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#34 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#36 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#23 diffence between itanium and alpha
discussions about relative dasd system perforaance declined by five to
ten times over a period of 15 years (aka processor and memory
increased by factor of fifty, dasd only increased by factor of five
resulting in dasd relative system performance possibly declining by
over an order of magnitude):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#31 Big I/O or Kicking the Mainframe out the Door
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#10 Virtual Memory (A return to the past?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#46 The god old days(???)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#4 IBM S/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#103 IBM 9020 computers used by FAA (was Re: EPO stories (was: HELP IT'S HOT!!!!!))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#190 Merced Processor Support at it again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#62 any 70's era supercomputers that ran as slow as today's supercomputers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#40 MVS History (all parts)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#61 MVS History (all parts)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#23 Smallest Storage Capacity Hard Disk?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#5 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#11 Microcode? (& index searching)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#20 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#8 What are some impressive page rates?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#9 What are some impressive page rates?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#16 AS/400 and MVS - clarification please
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#58 IBM S/370-168, 195, and 3033
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#21 vax6k.openecs.org rebirth
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
monopoly
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:42:15 GMT
pechter@shell.monmouth.com (Bill/Carolyn Pechter) writes:
The OSF Logical Volume Manager still exists in IBM AIX...
most of OSF was technology provided by various members. distributed
computer meetings were looking at merging stuff from (at least) MIT,
CMU, AIX, Apollo, and UCLA's Locus.
LVM was originally developed as part of the original aixv3 for 6000
(along with JFS) .... and predated OSF.
aixv3 was sort of port of aixv2 from pc/rt with lots of changes
(which was at&t derivative)
one of the prominant people that went to OSF had been manager of APL
in STL ... and then went to PASC as manager of BSD-for-370 project
... which got retarged to BSD-for-PC/RT (and called AOS) ... and is
now at Lotus.
another person i was sort of surprised to see at OSF (by way of DEC)
was one of the old CSC/VM alumni who was one of the people that
migrated to DEC when they closed the burlington mall location and
transferred people to POK.
aix/370 & aix/ps2 were locus based .... in some sense they were ibm's
unix SAA ... since locus allowed things like process migration and
partical file caching (cmu afs supported full file caching) some past
locus refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#2 IBM S/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#63 System/1 ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#64 Old naked woman ASCII art
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#64 distributed locking patents
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#8 IBM Linux
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#68 "all-out" vs less aggressive designs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#69 "all-out" vs less aggressive designs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#20 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#27 OCF, PC/SC and GOP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#44 Options for Delivering Mainframe Reports to Outside Organizat ions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#49 Options for Delivering Mainframe Reports to Outside Organizat ions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#20 VM-CMS emulator
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#22 Early AIX including AIX/370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#17 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#36 windows XP and HAL: The CP/M way still works in 2002
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#31 2 questions: diag 68 and calling convention
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#65 Bettman Archive in Trouble
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#54 Unisys A11 worth keeping?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#81 McKinley Cometh
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#36 Difference between Unix and Linux?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#67 Mainframe Spreadsheets - 1980's History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#40 I found the Olsen Quote
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#45 Linux paging
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
monopoly
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:09:05 GMT
JF Mezei writes:
I think that IBM truly changed mentality under Gerstner. IBM was
nearly bankrupt and its "proprietary" mentality had to change. And
by that, I didn't mean MVS or the 360 architecture, I meant the
closed minded shop where disk drives didn't exist, tey were all
DASD, ethernet didn't exist, it was all token ring or SNA etc. When
IBM opened up and accepted established standards such as TCPIP , it
gave it a new breath of life.
Microsoft was almost like that too. Remember that Gates was slow to
see and adopt the emergence of the internet.
during the '80s ibm created IBUs (independent business units) ... acorn
was an IBU
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#79 Coulda, Woulda, Shoudda moments?
awd (brought you pc/rt, rs/6000, rios, power, aix, etc) was an IBU.
there were some number of other IBUs.
also during the '80s, ACIS (academic) was formed with initial kitty of
something like $300m to give away to educational institutions (and
support things like NSFNET/internet).
part of the IBU problem was that it still drew on people with
traditional large organization background. IBUs were supposedly given
freedom to totally operate as an independent corporation .... but
rarely did the traditional people stray very far from the corporate
line. there was also some joke about an IBU claiming that they were
free of some corporate hdqtrs bureaucacy .... but it turned out that
each and every corporate hdqtrs bureaucrat would say that IBUs are
free from all the other bureaucratic processes ... but not mine.
I believe that the company hit a peak in the range of 500k employees
sometime in the '80s. it then went into the red in 1992 .... and by
the time gerstner came on board employees were down in the range of
200k. as a result it was already a significantly different company
... although it still retained quite a few of the same top
executives.
prior to gerstner coming on board ... there was lots of work being
done breaking the company into independent corporations (ala the baby
bells). there were also jokes about would the last person to leave,
please turn out the lights. gerstner pretty much put a stop to the
break up (although the spin-off of san jose to hitachi might only
indicate that they were just suspended). The whole adstar name brand
thing was getting ready for the split and the new disk company's name.
total drift was that workstation datasave went thru ADSM (adstar
storage manager) and finally TSM (tivoli storage manager). Tivoli,
itself started off as a couple austin awd employees leaving and doing
a startup.
random adsm drift:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#66 Holy Satanism! Re: Hyper-Threading Technology - Intel information.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#3 IBM's "old" boss speaks (was "new")
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#10 Deleting files and emails at Arthur Andersen and Enron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#29 Computers in Science Fiction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#8 Avoiding JCL Space Abends
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#25 Beyond 8+3
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Low-end processors (again)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:09:24 GMT
BPerryman@TNSI.COM (Perryman, Brian) writes:
Since another 'mainframe' platform we have here is the
high-availability Stratus Continuum running VOS, we standardised on
their FTServer where we also later needed high-availability some
NT-based POS/ATM transaction acquisition software (in fact this
platform is now that particular software vendor's recommended
hardware also).
It would make management here (and me) very happy if we could run
our IBM 390 workload (OS/390 and/or z/OS) via Flex-ES on a Stratus
FTServer..
http://www.stratus.com/products/ftserver/
Ok, it's not the cheapest Intel server around, but they're certainly
HA. If anyone could comment on the suitability of these from a
hardware spec or other point of view, I'd much appreciate it.
I definitely don't want to run MVS on a 'toy' - I'm looking to run a
24/7 production workload here, not play with something for academic
interest.
when my wife and I were running ha/cmp .... we spent a lot of time
working with the s/88 product owner (a re-logoed stratus). at that
time stratus was purely fault tolerant and needed downtime for things
like software maintenance. we had discussions with a number of places
where ha was actually preferred to fault tolerant .... since ha also
could mask software maintenance downtime. misc refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13 SSA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
I also had something like a two hour running argument at a acm sigops
meeting about whether it was possible to do real ha on commodity
hardware .... as fate would have it, a couple years later he had to
give one of the major m'soft ha presentations.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: osi archeological reference from ietf-pkix list
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:23:03 GMT
osi archeological thread from ietf-pkix list:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#21 A challenge
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#17 A challenge
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: diffence between itanium and alpha
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:32:08 GMT
J. Clarke writes:
If you don't want the OS that a particular vendor sells with a machine,
then buy from a different vendor.
<http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/desktop.html> lists a number of
vendors who will sell you a machine with Linux preinstalled. In
addition to those and Dell, HP sells their workstations with Linux if
you want it.
... and there is walmart
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,109194,00.asp
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:14:23 GMT
Lars Poulsen writes:
I worked at ACC from 10/1980 to 01/1990. ACC was basically founded to
build the channel attached 1822 interface for the mainframes of ARPA-
net connected universities. By 1985, the network was transitioning
from 1822 IMPs to X.25, and the WAN links were moving to routers
while end nodes attached to the LAN. ACC built a front-end processor
that looked to the mainframe channel as if it were the 1822 adapter.
This allowed the use of the TCP/IP software that UCLA had developed
for the 1822 box.
1980 or 1970? imps were supposed to disappear in 1983
in the early '80s, fsd had access to series/1s with all sorts of
boards ... mainframe channel boards, numerous telco interfaces, etc.
FSD had been paying to keep 2701s alive because they had full-channel
T1 support (telecommunication box form the '60s). In the early '80s,
FSD funded the Zirpel card for the series/1 that support full-channel
T1 .... as a replacement for all the old 2701s (remember the NSFNET1
T1 in the late '80s .... were actually 440kbit/sec cards in PC/RT with
multiple 440kbit channels multiplexed into T1; there was a joke if you
allowed that channels were flowing thru telco multiplexed channels,
then the network could be considered at least T3/44mbit and in some
places T5 ... aka a least somewhere in the telco network one of the
nsfnet 440kbit channels might be multiplexed in a T5 channel).
the ncp rewrite for s/1 done by baby bell in the early '80s also used
mainframe channel card for the s/1 ... where they emulated 37xx but
faked out the mainframe vtam to believe all resources were
cross-domain (every mainframe vtam was effectively told that the
resources were owned by some other vtam .... when, in fact, the
resources were "owned" by the distributed s/1s). from previous post
in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#76 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
in the early to mid '80s for HSDT .... for every T1 link that we were
using HYPERChannel A7xx boxes on .... we had a Series/1 with Zirpel
card sitting next to ... and be able to compare the HYPERChannel
thruput to the S/1 Zirpel thruput (on T1 links). We started out using
clear channel T1s ... and then somewhere along the way the phone
company wanted to discontinue the clear channel T1s and only provide
us with channelized T1s (among other things loosing every 193rd
bit). random hsdt refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Attaining Perfection
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:52:30 GMT
Paul Wallich writes:
"The only thing that costs more than adding weight to an aircraft deisgn
is taking it out."
-- Norm Augustine (former CEO, Lockheed etcetera)
boyd's attempt at taking all the weight out of the f15 .... and when
he was done they started putting it back in ... and they did something
similar to the f16.
there is the corollary ... KISS
one reference ... although his biographies go into much more detail
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/1997/articles/jul_97/july2a_97.html
from above:
The study showed that it was possible to have a fighter that was twice
as maneuverable with twice the mission radius of the F-4D Phantom
while weighing only 17,050 pounds. The study generated enough interest
and gained enough attention to be a candidate for then Deputy
Secretary of Defense David Packard's directed "experimental prototype"
program. The rest is history: an airplane that has made history.
Boyd's theories are now used as a yardstick for measuring and
comparing the maneuvering capability of all modern fighters. He
planted the seeds for the Lightweight Fighter, cultivated those seeds,
and helped harvest them in 1972 while playing a major role in defining
the requirements that were put into the request for proposal for the
Lightweight Fighter. The proposal led directly to the YF-16 and YF-17
technology demonstration prototypes. His influences can be seen in
such world-class fighters as the F-15, F-16, and F/A-18.
... other refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: CA-RAMIS
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 00:33:17 GMT
"edward konig" writes:
Right. The FOCUS people used to work for RAMIS, then split off 30+ years
ago to form their own successful take-off.
http://www.decosta.com/Nomad/tales/history.html
note that in the above ... NCSS was some people from cambridge science
center (and at least one person that worked on cp/67 from lincoln
labs) going off and forming a cp/67 time-sharing service bureau
also in above note that NCSS began developing a alternative and
released it under name of NOMAD ... while FOCUS was then released on
Tymshare's (vm/370 .... a follow on to cp/67) time-sharing service.
random other ncss, nomad, ramis refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#10 IBM S/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#59 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#51 Author seeks help - net in 1981
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#55 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#44 cp/67 (coss-post warning)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#63 Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#64 Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#69 Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#56 10 choices that were critical to the Net's success
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#61 The next big things that weren't
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#37 Newbie: Two quesions about mainframes
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Card Columns
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.lang.pl1
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:43:43 GMT
"Pointless Harlows" writes:
It must have been 1973 - mini-skirts were particularly short that year.
sometime in the early to mid '70s those student tables in classrooms
got the panel across the front .... i remember hearing them referred
to as modesty panels.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: CA-RAMIS
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:29:30 GMT
Shawn B. Wikle writes:
Ahhhhh. Very interesting! Thanks for the reference!
Shawn
well then you might also find interesting the recent SQL question from
comp.database.theory (with a little compare and swap instruction drift):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#75 The relational model and relational algebra - why did SQL become the industry standard?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#78 The relational model and relational algebra - why did SQL become the industry standard?
note that ramis, nomad, focus, and sql all started out on vm systems
(aka SQL started with system/r on vm at san jose research ... before
tech. transfer to endicott for sql/ds ... with later tech transfer
from endicott back to stl for db2).
slightly rounding out ref. ... both ncss and tymshare were cp/cms
timeshare services. also started slightly after ncss ... another
cp/cms timshare service was IDC.
and of course the largest such ... bigger than tymshare, ncss, and idc
combined was HONE ... the internal online support for all the branch
office and field people in the world (which started out with cp/67 and
then moved to vm/370):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
one of hone problems was that there was frequent executive
churn/promotions in DPD. A new DPD executive would come in that had
been taught that MVS solved all customer problems and eventually
realize that HONE was built on cp/cms platform. He would then ask it
be moved to MVS platforms. After extended period time, it would
eventually be shown again that wasn't practical and the whole thing
would be quitely dropped. For an extended number of years
.... possibly half of HONE development resources went into repeatedly
having yet another demonstration that it wasn't practical to host HONE
on MVS.
so for even more archeological drift, recent thread on PCM & COMTEN:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#70 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#76 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#77 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#79 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#13 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Efficent Digital Signature Schemes.....
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:59:03 GMT
Paul Crowley writes:
Is it running on a smart card?
It sounds like DSA-512 would be an exact fit. The group parameters
take 642+20=148 bytes of storage in total, and the private key a further 20
bytes. You can safely share the group parameters between all users if
you have more storage in a shared ROM than in non-volatile storage.
You can also use "precomputation" for very fast signing. See
"Applied Cryptography" for details.
note aads chip strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads
is hardware token that does fips186-2/x9.62/ecdsa signatures
disclaimer ... this is the AADS chip strawman that i've been going on
about for some number of years.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PC history, was PDP10 and RISC
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:42:38 GMT
johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) writes:
If Boca was Siberia, IBM Instruments was on the moon, a little company
that IBM bought to plug a tiny hole in the product line. The S9000
was a lab computer that only coincidentally happened to be sort of
usable as a desktop PC. It was way too expensive to sell in the
desktop market and competed with PDP-11s, not Apples.
ibu & acorn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#9 IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#79 Coulda, Woulda, Shoudda moments?
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:41:12 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#76 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
and of course that was a brain check:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#76 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
and of course the refernece to "ncp" in that post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#13 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
was with respect to ncp/pu4 that ran in 37xx boxes (basically sna's
imp/fep) and not to arpanet's host "ncp" implementation. misc.
arpanet host "ncp" refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#26 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#67 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#27 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#72 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#28 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#73 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#29 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#74 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#31 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#85 Difference between NCP and TCP/IP protocols
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PDP10 and RISC
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.sys.pdp10
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:37:57 GMT
Brian Inglis writes:
The 8KB page size would have been about right to allow growth for
total system memory on the VAX, and would probably have made
emulating 11 mode more straightforward.
2KB pages were used in small IBM 370 OSes with up to 16MB system
memory, and 2KB was too small for full memory systems; 4KB was
used in bigger IBM 370 OSes and was okay for 16MB up to 32MB
system memory; 8KB would have been about right for the VAX time
frame and target system memory sizes, and was eventually used in
the Alpha.
2kb was probably 512kbyte or less. VS1 (which had 2k pages) running
under VM with ecps and handshaking ... typically ran faster on 1mbyte
(or larger real machine) under VM than running standalone (even after
taking out VM's fixed kernel requirements of up to 200k ... aka 20
percent of one mbyte real machine).
In handshaking mode, VS1 was given a 16mbyte virtual address space by
VM (VS1 treated it as if running on 16mbyte real machine) ... and VS1
didn't do any paging ... but let VM handle it all using 4k pages
... aka VS1 normally had a single 16mbyte virtual address space
... and in handshaking mode it was mapped one-to-one with the virtual
machine 16mbyte address apace.
later in 3081 time frame with 3380s (early '80s) ... "big" pages were
introduced for both VM and MVS. The hardware translation was still all
4k pages, however "big" pages was change to both vm & mvs page I/O to
do transfers in units of full-track ... aka 40k or ten pages at a
time. when being replaced .... ten pages from a virtual address space
were collected together and written out in one i/o. On a page fault
for any of the ten 4k pages in a unit ... all ten pages would be read
in one operation.
the issue that dominated wasn't so much the packing in real storage
but the amount transfered in a single unit ... given the i/o
operational characteristics. by the time-frame of 1mbyte real
storages, I/O was more of a thruput constraint than real storage
... and strategies (like caching) were starting to appear that
attempted to leverage real storage for i/o bottleneck compensation.
misc. past discussion of big pages:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#60 Defrag in linux? - Newbie question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#20 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#29 Page size (was: VAX, M68K complex instructions)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#48 Swapper was Re: History of Login Names
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#8 What are some impressive page rates?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#11 What are some impressive page rates?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#20 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#36 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#4 Handling variable page sizes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#7 Handling variable page sizes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#69 Disk drives as commodities. Was Re: Yamhill
past discussions of 360/67 w/105 4k pages (after fixed kernel
requirements) and 3081k with >7000 4k pages (after fixed kernel
requirements):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#31 Big I/O or Kicking the Mainframe out the Door
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#10 Virtual Memory (A return to the past?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#46 The god old days(???)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#4 IBM S/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#62 any 70's era supercomputers that ran as slow as today's supercomputers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#40 MVS History (all parts)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#61 MVS History (all parts)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#23 Smallest Storage Capacity Hard Disk?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#5 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#11 Microcode? (& index searching)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#20 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#8 What are some impressive page rates?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#9 What are some impressive page rates?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#16 AS/400 and MVS - clarification please
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Which Editor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 03:08:09 GMT
Joe Morris writes:
XEDIT as in IBM's VM product, ported almost completely to the PC by
Mansfield Software Group (www.kedit.com).
xedit in large part xavier delamberterie responsible in the late '70s
with various help from people in endicott, csc, and yorktown. there
were some issues at the time that xedit was somewhat traditional
development project while there were several editors (nost notably
red) available internally that had gone thru numerous enhancement
iterations with feedback based on possibly tens of thousands of
internal users. it wasn't so much that xedit was a bad editor ... it
was that red had significantly more internal development effort based
on real life use put to it (somewhat akin to current open source
lore).
red, ned, xedit, and edgar had similar capability ... but simple cpu
useage test that i did (summery of '79) of the same set of operations
on the same file by all editors showed the following cpu uses:
RED 2.91/3.12
EDIT 2.53/2.81
NED 15.70/16.52
XEDIT 14.05/14.88
EDGAR 5.96/6.45
SPF 6.66/7.52
ZED 5.83/6.52
"edit" is the standard vanilla cms editor from the time. xedit
eventually gained rex(x) scripting capability.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: CPU Impact of degraded I/O
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 03:25:34 GMT
Patrick_Falcone@AON.COM (Patrick Falcone) writes:
I would agree with what Matt said but add that it can depend on the profile
of the workload you are helping. If for instance you batch work is say 85%
I/O and 15% CPU then you would probably see some additional CPU. If it's a
heavily weighted CPU type workload then you may not view any significance.
I would tend to think that most common batch workloads would weigh more
heavily on I/O versus CPU so you may see some additional CPU.
For interactive workloads it becomes a measure of productivity. If an End
User is use to 2 - 5 second response time and all of a sudden you reduce
this time to 1 second or less the Users most likely will become more
productive which translates to more transactions which will increase CPU.
Since I/O is the slowest of the three (CPU, Storage, I/O) I would tend to
think that increasing the speed of I/O delivery would increase the use of
CPU but I'll bow to the heavyweights for their comments. Of course
relieving this bottleneck could cause you to find you have another
potential bottleneck.
the issue is that CPU utlization can increase with effective i/o
thruput; more work being done in less time. I believe that the
question was whether or not that degraded I/O increased the cpu
overhead for handling I/O (aka the avg. overhead pathlength per I/O
operation increases).
long ago and far away ... in STL ... there was a situation where a
bunch of "local" 3274s were removed from direct channel attach and put
at the end of HYPERChannel channel extender (300 people working on ims
moved to remote location). The overall thruput of the system went up
10-15% and the avg. system response decreased (improved) ... with no
noticeable degradation by the 300 "remoted" individuals.
The issue was that the local HYPERChannel boxes that sat directly on
the channels had significantly lower channel busy per operation than
than 3274s. The same operations could be done with much less channel
overhead busy ... which made additional channel capacity available for
lots of other operations .... increasing overall system thuput.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: CPU Impact of degraded I/O
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 03:38:43 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
long ago and far away ... in STL ... there was a situation where a
bunch of "local" 3274s were removed from direct channel attach and put
at the end of HYPERChannel channel extender (300 people working on ims
moved to remote location). The overall thruput of the system went up
the 300 had subsecond respond for nominal interactive operations
before the move and it didn't measurably change after the moved of 300
people/terminals to remote site (however, all of the more complex
things improved for everybody with the overall system thruput increase
of 10-15 percent).
misc. refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#63 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#65 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#66 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#67 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#76 Is a VAX a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#12 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#83 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#30 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#33 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#35 Newbie TOPS-10 7.03 question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#44 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#46 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#17 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#19 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#43 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#48 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#50 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Which Editor
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:37:26 GMT
Brian Inglis writes:
The difference is probably that Xedit was documented and released to
customers and came with extensible scripting capability (from VM/SP
and EXEC2): think emacs-like in CMS. SPF, edit and edgar seemed to be
pretty basic editors with little extensibility. Never heard of ned
and red: maybe internal only; like so much that was good on VM and CMS
and never saw the light of FCS?
the issue was all before xedit was released to customers as a
product. the discussion was whether or not endicott would be better
off continuing with the development of xedit .... or better off
picking up one of the other internal (more mature) editors (like
red) as the base for doing further development and releasing as
a product.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Antiquity of Byte-Word addressing?
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:21:13 GMT
"Glen Herrmannsfeldt" writes:
Two megabytes was big for a 360. Those bytes are all magnetic cores with
wires through them! Most models didn't have 24 bits of physical address,
and no virtual memory yet.
I think the high end 370's (before the 303x series) had a maximum of 8MB
physical memory, though 16MB virtual, and now monolithic memory.
360/67 had virtual memory ... and supported both 24bit virtual and 32bit
virtual addressing. you could get up to 1mbyte of real storage. in a
duplex system ... each processor having 1mbyte of real storage for
2mbyte of total addressable real storage.
high end 168s you could deck out with 16mbytes of real storage.
3033 was having some interesting issues and had a gimmick to support up
to 64mbytes of real storage with only 24bit addressing. the PTE (page
table entry) in 4k-page mode had two unused/undefined bits ... out of
the 16 bits (12 bit real 4k page number ... for 24bit real storage
addressing, PTE invalid flag bit, page protection flag bit and two
unused bits). The 3033 redefined the two unused/undefined bits to be
allowed as real 4k page number ... allowing 14bit real 4k page number
for 26bit real address or 64mbytes.
CCWs had to be located in the first 16mbytes of real storage ... but
could point to IDAL which could specify 31bit addresses.
prior discussion of 3033 26bit real addressing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#40 using >=4GB of memory on a 32-bit processor
prior discussions of idal/idaw:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#28 Could CDR-coding be on the way back?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#69 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#13 GETMAIN R/RU (was: An IEABRC Adventure)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#51 Hardest Mistake in Comp Arch to Fix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#52 Hardest Mistake in Comp Arch to Fix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#56 Hardest Mistake in Comp Arch to Fix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#57 Hardest Mistake in Comp Arch to Fix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#21 Crazy idea: has it been done?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#70 hone acronym (cross post)
3081, 370-xa introduced 31bit virtual addressing.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: [urgent] which OSI layer is SSL located?
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:43:01 GMT
zhongmeiyi@yahoo.com.sg (megan) writes:
no, this isn't a homework question.
Some have said that TLS, being Transport Layer Security would mean
that SSL is belongs to the tranport layer, but others have said that
SSL is a Session layer protocol. There are also people saying its both
layers
total aside ... OSI defines both the 7-layers for moving data as well
as "service" functions (which sits beside/outside the 7-layers and can
span layers). OSI is somewhat viewed as effort to define
infrastructure for point-to-point, low-speed, high error rate copper.
For instance LANs violate OSI ... basically covering layers 1, 2, and
part of 3. Various parts of international (ISO) and national (ANSI)
organizations claimed that they couldn't consider standards that
violated OSI. This got them somewhat schizo when LANs got accepted as
ISO standard via IEEE. An example is x3s3.3 (ANSI responsible for
standards for layers 3 & 4) couldn't consider standards that
interfaced to LAN because they violated ISO guidelines that prohibited
standards that didn't conform to OSI.
SSL is something of anomoly ... it was transport layer protocol that
was implemented in an application. Note also that IP (internetworking)
also violates OSI since it sits in a non-existant place (in the OSI
model) between transport and networking.
misc. past discussions:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why only 24 bits on S/360?
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:43:33 GMT
jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) writes:
There's a problem with OS/360 MVT TSO: it blows up rather badly if it runs
above 8 MB. I've asked several folks at SHARE this week whowere around then,
and basically got the answer that they didn't know of any 360s that had more
than 8 MB on them, and damned few of those. I don't think it was a conscious
decision so much as a general feeling that 24 bits would address more memory
than anyone thought would ever be economical to hang on a machine - a
cultural thing rather than an explicit decision.
some number of machines had 8mbytes of (ampex, etc) LCS installed
... in addition to their standard memory (resulting in >8mbytes). also
has been mentioned, 360/67 had both 24bit virtual and 32bit virtual
addressing.
misc. ampex/lcs memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#7 "OEM"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#2 Ridiculous
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#3 Ridiculous
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#51 Logo (was Re: 5-player Spacewar?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#15 Parity - why even or odd (was Re: Load Locked (was: IA64 running out of steam))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#62 Re : OT: One for the historians - 360/91
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#63 Re : OT: One for the historians - 360/91
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: SSL questions
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:46:48 GMT
PunkroyREMOVETHIS@DrQue.net (Punkroy) writes:
So that I am clear in what many seem to be saying: If anyone
compromises the server certificate, all communications that used that
certificate CAN be decoded. Is that correct?
If so, am I the only one who feel that is a rather large open door
for all those e-commerce sites. A disgruntled employ gets access to
the server certificate and could decrypt any session that certificate
was used for?
Okay, but the certificate still has a password on the private key,
right? But I've read server certificate can be stored without the
private key encrypted. In the setup I did, I read about this option
so you didn't have to enter a password when the webserver first
started. Anyone have an idea of how many admins don't encrypt the
certificate private key?
For some reason, I had always thought the certificate was used only
for authentication and that both the server and client would generate
a temporary key set used to encrypt traffic only for that session.
After the session was complete, the key sets were discarded and the
data they sent back can not be decrypted by anyone-- including the
original sender and receiver (less bruteforce attack on session key,
factoring public key, ect). If that is not the case, why? I thought
about the possibility of speed being an issue-- but the client has to
generate a keyset. True, the server might be doing hundreds of
connections at once, but is the trade off really worth the risk? Is
there a system like the one I've outlined above already in SSL? If
so, please give me a link-- that is what I am interested in using.
Since I am on the subject of server certificates, I might as well
ask this question as well: Does the root authority who signs a server
certificate ever get the private key? It seems this question should
also be a "no" answer, but after learning more about certificates from
this thread, I'm not sure I trust anything done by SSL.
if you know somebody's public key .... you can encrypt stuff with that
public key and only the entity with the corresponding private key can
decrypt it. various protocols generate a random secret key ... encrypt
the secret key with the public key and then encrypt the actual data
with the secret key. only the entity with the corresponding private
key can recover the secret key and then decrypt the rest of the
message.
the certificate isn't held under password look & key ... the private
key is suppose to be held in some sort of protective control. a
certificate is some digitally signed information that effectively
creates a trusted binding between some pieces of information and a
public key.
for ssl server certificates there is the complex chain of processes to
1) provide for privacy of data (aka encryption) and 2) validate that
the entity that you think you are communicating with is really
that entity.
browsers have tables of trusted (CA, certification authority) public
keys. CAs are responsible for validating associations between domain
names and public keys ... and creating digital signed certificates
that assert the binding between a domain name and a public key. the
integrity of the certificate is validated by using one of the CA
public keys to confirm the CA's digital signature (on certificates).
browsers that have validated the integrity of the certificate also
check that the URL that somebody typed in has a domain name that
matches that in the certifcate ... that establishes the equivalence
between the domain name and a public key.
the browser generates a random secret key, encrypts some data with the
random secret key, encryptes the random secret key with the public
key. given
1) the validity of a certificate,
2) the equivalence between the typed in URL and the domain name in the
certificate
3) the certificate's domain name and the certificate's public public
key,
4) the encryption of the random secret key with the public key
5) the encryption of the data with the random secret key
then the assumption is that only the web server in the original typed
in URL can decrypt the data (since only that web server has the
private key that can recover the random secret key).
a big reason for all of this infrastructure is a concern regarding the
integrity of the domain name infrastructure's ability to provide
trusted serving up of domain name to ip-address mapping (aka a
compromise of the domain name infrastructure so that traffic is routed
to a fraudulent ip-address).
a problem is that the authoritative agency for domain names is the
domain name infrastructure .... nominally certification authorities
aren't the actual agency responsible for the information they are
certifying .... they must corroborate the information in a certificate
application with the authoritative agency ... in the case of domain
names, is the domain name infrastructure ... aka the certification
authorities (for ssl server domain name certificates) are dependent on
the very same infrastructure that everybody has integrity concerns
about.
so there have been some suggestions (somewhat prompted by
certification authorities) about how to improve the integrity
(vulnerabilities) of the domain name infrastructure. a catch-22 is
that if the integrity of the domain name infrastructure is improved
for the certification authorities ... it is also improved for
everybody (somewhat mitigating the concern about its integrity and the
original justification for having ssl certificates).
lots of past discussion:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#sslcerts
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: SSL questions
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:01:18 GMT
PunkroyREMOVETHIS@DrQue.net (Punkroy) writes:
If so, am I the only one who feel that is a rather large open door
for all those e-commerce sites. A disgruntled employ gets access to
the server certificate and could decrypt any session that certificate
was used for?
note that the certificate isn't able to decrypt any SSL data ... the
certificate is suppose to establish the equivalence between someinformation and a public key (i.e. domain name .... information
digitally signed by that web server's private key can be validated by
the public key in the corresponding certificate, information encrypted
with the web server's public key can only be decrypted with the web
server's private key).
SSL only encrypts the data in flight. I'm not actually aware of a
compromise of a credit card number transmitted in the clear on the
internet. however, the business processes associated with credit cards
require lots of uses of credit card numbers in the unencrypted form.
large-scale harvesting of these numbers (at rest) has been
established (as opposed to any harvesting of numbers in flight) ..
some large scale harvesting mention:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#fraud
some discussion of e-commerce:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm5.htm#asrn2
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm5.htm#asrn3http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#52
and somewhat related assurance:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#assurance
standard that eliminates PAN/account number as point of fraud:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#privacy
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why only 24 bits on S/360?
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 01:11:41 GMT
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com (Jeff nor Lisa) writes:
Indeed, on the original IBM PC, wasn't the full 640K an extra
cost option--that is, the default memory for the machine was
much smaller and cost less?
In other words, in the early days of PCs, while memory was still
cheaper than core memory, there were still cost limitations.
Indeed, wasn't the original DOS 2.0 fairly limited to even
handling "extended" or "expanded" memory on the 8086 machine?
(I never could understand the differences between those two
terms).
memory definition:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#37 Ancient computer humor - Memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#73 Expanded Storage?
standard entry consumer machine had 64k ... more memory cost more
money.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
monopoly
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 01:30:31 GMT
lars@bearnip.com (Lars Duening) writes:
Meaning that all the nice humid air from the pacific can't get to us
because of the mountains, and the nice humid air from the atlantic runs
out of steam somewhere in the vicinity of Kansas.
backside of the mountains tend to be semi-arid desert ... backside of
the sierras, backside of the cascades, backside of the rockies, even
the backside of the santa cruz mountains.
backside of the cascades has the columbia river ... the grand coulee
dam not only is one of the largest hydro electric dams ... but also
pumps water into the coulee which then flows into large irrigation
system serving the semi-arid desert along the backside of the cascades
... currently something like half million acres.
past ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#43 VR vs. Portable Computing
misc other
http://users.owt.com/chubbard/gcdam/html/photos/irrigation.html
http://users.owt.com/chubbard/gcdam/
http://www.usbr.gov/power/data/sites/grandcou/grandcou.htm<
http://www.ccrh.org/comm/moses/moseslake.html
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why only 24 bits on S/360?
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:35:03 GMT
shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) writes:
Just for comparison: a 33 MHz 80386 - or for that matter a late 70's
VAX 11/780 @ nominal 1 MIPS - can easily saturate a 10 Mbit
Ethernet with a FTP or Web server. That's six times the bandwidth
of a full T-1.
I was ridiculed a few months ago for suggesting that a 800 MHz server
was more than enough for serving a 384kbit SDSL connection.
for the mainframe tcp/ip product, i did the rfc 1044 support ... and
testing at cray research saturated the 1mbyte/sec channel on
4341-clone using nominal percentage of the cpu. by comparison the
regular support going thru 8232 could saturate a 3090 processor at
44kbytes/sec.
there is a big issue of the efficiency of the implementation as well
as the efficiency of the protocol. nominal FTP activity sets up a long
running TCP session and transfers lots of data at maximum MTU. worst
case HTTP is single minimal sized packet requiring 7 packet exchange
for tcp setup/teardown. however, in principle, 800MHz anything should
be overkill for 384kbit.
somewhat indirect comparison since it is from (old) linpack table for
floating point
Computer N=100(Mflops)
--------------------------------------------
Gateway 2000 G6-200 PentiumPro 62
IBM 3090/180J 10
AMD 486DX5-133 4.4
DATEK 80386-33 /w 64KB Cache .27
IBM 4341 MG10 .19
VAX 11/780 FPA .14
Northgate 386/387 (25MHz) .11
VAX 11/780 FPA .11
random rfc 1044 refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#28 Log Structured filesystems -- think twice
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#14 mainframe tcp/ip
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#15 tcp/ip
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#17 middle layer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#34 ... cics ... from posting from another list
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#49 Edsger Dijkstra: the blackest week of his professional life
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#50 Edsger Dijkstra: the blackest week of his professional life
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#36 why is there an "@" key?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#123 Speaking of USB ( was Re: ASR 33 Typing Element)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#90 Ux's good points.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#59 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#30 OT?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#63 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#65 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#52 Pre ARPAnet email?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#33 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#44 Wired News :The Grid: The Next-Gen Internet?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#20 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#11 The demise of compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#43 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#45 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#67 Total Computing Power
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#31 general networking is: DEC eNet: was Vnet : Unbelievable
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#58 IBM S/370-168, 195, and 3033
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#51 E-mail from the OS-390 ????
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#27 Beyond 8+3
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#67 3745 & NCP Withdrawl?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#29 360/370 disk drives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#44 filesystem structure, was tape format (long post)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#28 diffence between itanium and alpha
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#77 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#79 COMTEN- IBM networking boxes
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: YKYBHTLW...
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:47:35 GMT
Giles Todd writes:
I didn't realize that PIN-based payments (as opposed to PIN-based ATM
withdrawals) had caught on in North America. They are certainly a
novelty in the UK, although nothing new in 'Old Europe'.
some issue in the walmart/retail legal action is offline
(i.e. non-PIN) debit vis-a-vis online (pin) debit (in part because
offline debit fees are more in line with credit fees).
see debit card lawsuit at
http://www.cardweb.com/cardtrak/pastissues/apr02.html
some topic drift with respect to PANs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#30 SSL questions
standard for all payments (debit, credit, stored-value, echeck, etc)
in all environments (POS, face-to-face, e-commerce, etc):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959
digital signature token that could be used in above:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why only 24 bits on S/360?
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:19:35 GMT
"Rupert Pigott" writes:
... I wasn't aware that FP was particularly relevant to
TCP/IP stacks ... :)
as per statement it was somewhat indirect. that was the first table
that i could find that had comparison involving 386, 780s, 4341s,
3090s, and pentiums (although only going up thru 200mhz) ... since
they all compared FP ... there was possibly some correlation between
the relative difference between the 5-6 machines in other areas ...
aka the relative FP performance might also be some indication of the
relative non-FP performance (between the various machines).
there was no statement with regard to how many FPs were required per
TCP op .... there was statements with regard to 4341 implementation
not being processor bound (at 1mbyte/sec) and 3090 being processor
bound (at 44kbyte/sec) and the relative (FP) thruput of a 4341
processor to a 3090 processor being possibly factor of 50 (and a 780
being somewhat in the same class as 4341).
The 4341 and 3090 implementation was the same .... except differing by
support I had done for rfc1044 vis-a-vis the standard 8232 support (in
effect the same tcp/ip stack/implementation) showed something like a
two orders of magnitude processor-use difference (or more) between the
rfc1044 support and the 8232 support and a factor of 24 difference in
data thruput ... approaching four orders of magnitude (aka 10,000
times) difference in instructions executed per byte moved).
ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#33 Why only 24 bits on S/360?
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why only 24 bits on S/360?
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:50:27 GMT
Robin KAY writes:
If your router provides a firewall then why do need an additional
firewall on the machine? Mine is set to block all incoming traffic.
some number of the personal firewalls will block by application (both
incoming and outgoing) ... where standard packet-filtering firewalls
tend to be limited to port &/or ip addresses (in and out). for
instance i don't mind if my browser goes out to a port 80 ... but i've
periodically caught some spyware trying to get out to a port 80.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why only 24 bits on S/360?
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:52:16 GMT
"Rupert Pigott" writes:
That snippet tells me something useful. Can't find any refs to
the estimated instructions/byte moved by cdrom.com's FreeBSD
FTP server running on a PPro... I'm sure I've seen that
somewhere. I'm not finding the magic combo with Google, sigh.
IIRC it was a surprisingly small number. :)
note that wasn't the number of instructions per tcp operation ... it
was that there was four order of magnitude difference (ten thousand
times) in the number of instructions per tcp byte moved (i.e. if 1044
support executed say 5 instructions per byte ... then the 8232 support
was executing nearly 50,000 instructions per byte).
the "fast" router pathlength presentation at 88(89?) IETF for gigabit
link was around 120 instructions (with no data copies) and later got
it into 85 instruction range. i think that standard 4.3 reno/tahoe tcp
stack was around 5000 instructions and five data copies in the late
'80s.
with regard:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#33 Why only 24 bits on S/360?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#35 Why only 24 bits on S/360?
somewhat related when getting started on ha/cmp,
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
we wanted to know how much of a processor was being used in
various tcp/ip operations. it was somewhat difficult to get really
good total cpu use on unix ... so used some stuff that had done long ago
and far away for capacity planning ... a lot of work evolving
performance tuning into capacity planning went on in the late '60s and
early '70s at the cambridge science center:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#bench
so took a program that had a tight loop that ran for a known number of
minutes.
after the loop program started, a tcp/ip application was started and
transferred a fixed amount of data. it was run transferring a single
byte as well as run transferring a couple hundred megabytes over
enet. The difference in elapsed time for the loop program was assumed
to be the total cpu use needed by tcp/ip application (and supporting
infrastructure).
this information was used in various capacity planning calculations
for the rs/6000 thruput for fddi, SLA (serial link adapter
... 220mbit/sec connection), hippi, and fcs. random ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
misc. refs to work on high-speed protocol (HSP):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#114 What is the use of OSI Reference Model?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#115 What is the use of OSI Reference Model?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#1 "Mainframe" Usage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#5 "Mainframe" Usage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#9 "Mainframe" Usage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#59 7 layers to a program
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#24 Pre ARPAnet email?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#25 Pre ARPAnet email?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#62 SMP idea for the future
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#15 departmental servers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#15 Replace SNA communication to host with something else
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#27 Unpacking my 15-year old office boxes generates memory refreshes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#19 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#26 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#46 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#49 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#50 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#57 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002q.html#4 Vector display systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay10.htm#77 Invisible Ink, E-signatures slow to broadly catch on (addenda)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#17 A challenge
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#21 A challenge
other fddi, sla, hippi, and/or fcs refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#16 Dual-ported disks?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#17 Dual-ported disks?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13 SSA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#5 360/44 (was Re: IBM 1130 (was Re: IBM 7090--used for business or
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#30 Drive letters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#40 Comparison Cluster vs SMP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#49 Edsger Dijkstra: the blackest week of his professional life
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#58 Reliability and SMPs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#54 Fault Tolerance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#22 Cache coherence [was Re: TF-1]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#56 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#59 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#68 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#14 FW: RS6000 vs IBM Mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#38 S/360 development burnout?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#31 OT?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#21 Disk caching and file systems. Disk history...people forget
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#85 what makes a cpu fast
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#69 Wheeler and Wheeler
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#63 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#65 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#66 commodity storage servers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#17 I hate Compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#5 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#22 ESCON Channel Limits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#24 HP Compaq merger, here we go again.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#73 Expanded Storage?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#74 Expanded Storage?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#25 ESCON Data Transfer Rate
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#53 VAX, M68K complex instructions (was Re: Did Intel Bite Off More Than It Can Chew?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#32 What goes into a 3090?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#46 What goes into a 3090?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#60 Mainframes and "mini-computers"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#78 Q: Is there any interest for vintage Byte Magazines from 1983
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#78 Future interconnects
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#31 general networking is: DEC eNet: was Vnet : Unbelievable
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#33 general networking is: DEC eNet: was Vnet : Unbelievable
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#52 Itanium2 performance data from SGI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#47 XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#0 Clustering ( was Re: Interconnect speeds )
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#6 vax6k.openecs.org rebirth
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#29 360/370 disk drives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#47 send/recv vs. raw RDMA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#63 Re : OT: One for the historians - 360/91
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The PDP-1 - games machine?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 14:38:11 GMT
"Ross Simpson" <yeah_whatever> writes:
I've got a Time Life Book which talks about Computer Software. In this it
talks about the PDP-1 computer from the early 1960s & about one of the games
written for it called "SpaceWar", I was suprised to see that this game had
many varients (done by various hackers at MIT).
cambridge science center had a 2250-4 (aka 2250 with 1130 as
controller). somebody in the late '60s ported spacewar to the
2250-4. the 2250 keyboard (looked much like selectric keyboard) was
split in half ... with key controls for two players on the left and
right half. i don't know if the person that had done the 2250-4/1130
port was involved in the pdp-1 at all (although i don't believe it was
a very large community ... since just about everybody at csc had been
around ctss and/or other aspects of mit computing for some period).
I would sometimes bring my kids in on weekends and they would play
while i worked ... they would also sometimes chase each other up and
down the hall ... which would get complaints from other possible
people also in on weekends.
picture of 2250-4
http://www.shubs.net/1130/functional/DisplayUnit.html
other 2250-4/1130 ref:
http://www.forth.com/Content/History/History1c.htm
http://ibm1130.org/lib
misc. past refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#67 oddly portable machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#37 S/360 development burnout?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#66 360 Architecture, Multics, ... was (Re: X86 ultimate CISC? No.)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#24 A question for you old guys -- IBM 1130 information
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#71 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#10 5-player Spacewar?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#12 5-player Spacewar?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#13 5-player Spacewar?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#14 5-player Spacewar?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#51 Logo (was Re: 5-player Spacewar?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#8 VM: checking some myths.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#26 Help needed on conversion from VM to OS390
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#47 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#59 history of CMS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#20 6600 Console was Re: CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#17 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#22 Computer Terminal Design Over the Years
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#17 PLX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#78 Newsgroup cliques?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#0 Wanted: Weird Programming Language
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#1 Wanted: Weird Programming Language
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#72 OT: One for the historians - 360/91
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
monopoly
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 14:44:25 GMT
jmfbahciv writes:
Not if you have to do the work. Irrigation uses gravity to do
the work; sprinkling requires a pump which requires electricity,
not to mention a hell of a lot of pipe that needs to be maintained.
or a tractor with a drive belt connected to the pump. the thing that
got me with moving pipes ... you would accumulate 5-10 lbs of mud on
each boot ... and there was this sucking pressure just moving each
foot. now days you fly over these fields where sprinkling is down in
these large circles.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Authentification vs Encryption in a system to system interface
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 15:06:30 GMT
"Edward A. Feustel" writes:
The authentication can be done mutually when the SSL channel is
established. Apache (with the proper modification) permits the
authenticated identity to be passed in an environment variable to
the "application". The application can do what it will with that
information. Whether the application can masquerade as the user in
order to use the ACL system depends on the system, but the
authenticated ID can be used to determine what the user can do
within the file system by using the standard access control
mechanisms that Apache provides.
in SSL with SSL domain name server certificates ... the real
authentication is done when the CA is creating the certificate. the
browser just checks that that the URL typed in just matches the domain
name in the certificate (is the browser really talking to the server
that it thinks it is talking to). the vulnerability being addressed is
possible integrity problems with the domain name infrastructure.
the catch-22 of course is that the CA is a certification operation, and
must verify with the authoritative agency the validaty of the
information being certified (i.e. is the entity requesting a
certificate really the owner of that domain?). The authoritative
agency for domain names is the domain name infrastructure ... so CAs
are relying on the very same agency that have the original integrity
issue giving rise to the certificate requirement.
so CAs have proposals for improving the integrity of the domain name
infrastructure ... so that they can rely on the validity of the
information ... but improving the integrity of the domain name
infrastructure contributes to mitigating the requirement for having
certificates in the first place.
similar explanation from sci.crypt:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#29 SSL questions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#30 SSL questions
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why only 24 bits on S/360?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 15:16:33 GMT
Morten Reistad writes:
We were running an ISP-mix of packets, where number of routes,
packet distributions on source/destination ports and addresses,
packet sizes and bursts were matched to statistical data from
real ISP operations. Same packet stream that went into a lot of
other benchmarks.
The average packet size was 272 octets gross, btw.
This was the business load for a number of organizations, and router
offers were generally woefully inadequate in such performance. This
benchmark was presented as a protest to cisco hype.
The cisco reps were never friends with me for years afterwards,
i believe there was an IETF presentation that packet size profile was
strong bi-model distribution ... combination of max. MTU packets
... in combination with small packets.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Authentification vs Encryption in a system to system interface
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:14:49 GMT
"Edward A. Feustel" writes:
While the above is true, the persons in the original article
appeared to be discussing Client Authentication and Authorization
rather than Server Authentication.
Ed Feustel
oops, well only one of the public keys are necessary for key exchange
for encryption. one of the original "client" authentication
implementations (we had sign-off ... so we could require that the
commerce server did mutual authentication to the payment gateway
... even tho there wasn't anything specified at the time for
mutual/client authentication):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm5.htm#asrn2
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm5.htm#asrn3
one of the suggestions for webserver doing client authentication was
provide a stub to radius ... and then radius administrative control
could decide whether individual users/accounts were authenticated by
password, chap, digital signature, etc.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#radius
aka administrator could specify to radius at individual account level
what mode of authentication would be used. it would have the advantage
for large operations that also inlcuded things like web hosting ... a
single adminstrative infrastructure for authentication across the
whole operation (regardless of the type of authentication).
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia, 20th anniv: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
monopoly
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 14:56:04 GMT
bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes:
Also. Does anyone else find it sort of ironic that Apple is counting
on IBM's PowerPC 970 for use in their next generation systems?
Business is business, but it's a long way from 1984.
just an extension of fort knox. pre 1984 .... fort knox was a project
to migrate most of the sundry microprocessors used in controllers and
various computers to 801/risc (rochester products, low & mide range
370s ... aka boeblingen & endicott, numerous controllers using uc.5s,
jib-primes, etc).
fort knox got killed ... and some number of the people went off to
various other places (including outside the company; slightly amd
related; i believe 29k had at least one such person) to build risc
processers.
ROMP was 16bit 801 for the OPD (office product division) displaywriter
follow-on. when that got killed ... the group retargted the hardware
for unix workstation ... getting the group that had done the AT&T port
to the pc for pc/ix to do one ... resulting in pc/rt & aixv2.
folklore has it that after Future System (FS) got killed, some number
of people went off to rochester and built it anyway ... resulting in
the s/38. The s/38 follow-on, as/400 was initially built on cisc but
was retargted to power/pc ... and so could be considered "fort knox"
... just delayed by something like 15 years.
misc 801 &/or fort knox references
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801
misc FS references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#futuresys
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why only 24 bits on S/360?
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 15:03:29 GMT
rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) writes:
It was probably Interdata, later bought by Perkin-Elmer.
More info here: <URL:http://simh.trailing-edge.com/interdata.html>
in the 60s, when i was undergradudate, we used interdata/3 to build
plug-compatible 360 telecommunication controller (reverse engineered
channel interface, etc) ... and subsequently got blamed for
originating the 360 PCM business. random bits:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#360pcm
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
monopoly monopoly monopoly
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 23:24:41 GMT
winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:
Apple and IBM were also the joint parents of Taligent. (Whatever
happened to Taligent, anyway?)
it seemed like it was picked up by java ... at least the bldg and
people ... i believe some people continued in their old offices.
when we started ha/cmp ... the executive we reported to had come from
motorola. he then headed up somerset .... and then went on to be
president of mips.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
some drift ... taligent, pink, somerset, & spring
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#10 Taligent
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#60 "all-out" vs less aggressive designs (was: Re: 36 to 32 bit transition)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#42 IBM's Workplace OS (Was: .. Pink)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#45 IBM's Workplace OS (Was: .. Pink)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#46 Where are they now : Taligent and Pink
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#48 Where are they now : Taligent and Pink
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#23 IA64 Rocks My World
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#28 Proper ISA lifespan?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#32 Whom Do Programmers Admire Now???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#36 Proper ISA lifespan?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#37 Proper ISA lifespan?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#93 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#12 "Soul of a New Machine" Computer?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#14 "Soul of a New Machine" Computer?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#60 Unisys A11 worth keeping?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#81 McKinley Cometh
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#76 Difference between Unix and Linux?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#37 Computer Architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#60 The next big things that weren't
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.vms
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:15:18 GMT
jmfbahciv writes:
NOpe. You have to understand that these guys did not comment
for the benefit of the code reader. The comments were for
their benefit and ONLY their benefit. It wasn't until the
company got too big that commentary was deemed necessary for
the maintenance group. In the beginning, maintenance was
done by the developers. I don't know how to communicate this
to you people who 1. haven't done OS development as their
primary business and 2. can't conceive of a development
business where the maintainers rarely saw, let alone talked to,
the developers. This last one happens when the offices are
geographically isolated.
separated in space &/or time .... I once had somebody from the branch
office that served AT&T longlines in NJ come looking for me because of
some 10-15 year old kernel stuff.
in earlier times ... i liked implementing things in zero instructions
(aka nominally purely as side effects of other things happening in
carefully ordered sequence). years later ... somebody would make some
random change and mess everything up ... and not have the slightest
clue as to what was happening.
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
monopoly
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 00:30:45 GMT
bdc@world.std.com (Brian 'Jarai' Chase) writes:
There's Cafe 50s on Santa Monica Blvd on the west side of Los Angeles.
I'd expect there are a few classic soda fountain / diners to be found
in nearly every big American city, and certainly in quite a few of the
smaller ones.
dc pbs station had program on silver spring area diners from the 50s
last week. one was the tastee diner in bethesda .... they showed it
having its last serving before they broke ground for discovery channel
hdqtrs ... and having to move it to its current location. tastee is
still there ... re-opening not too long ago after being shut because
of fire. i haven't been to tastee since it re-opened.
http://www.dinercity.com/mdDiner/mdDiners.html
tastee doesn't have soda fountain ... but there are the silver diners
in the DC area ... which include juke box interfaces at most of the
tables ... and you can punch in some amount of 50s, 60s, & 70s
music. I've recently been to both the one on rockville pike and the
one in tyson's.
http://www.silverdiner.com/
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The PDP-1 - games machine?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:50:35 GMT
"Ross Simpson" <yeah_whatever> writes:
Careful, the creator of LISP maybe reading this. Naturally, I
haven't used LISP, so cannot base an opinion on it.
some amount of drift:
http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/SQL_Reunion_95/sqlr95-Vera.html
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#60
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
Internet trivia 20th anv http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm
Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: unix
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:06:06 GMT
eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:
Lyons authored a fine annotation. I had a copy. However, I would
not say that the best code always came from academia. Many fine OS
features came from industry from both indutrial concerns (IBM and
Tandem) and never saw the light of day, or from places like BBN.
VMS, for instance, had features which created communities of use,
whether Unix fans liked them or n