List of Archived Posts

2002 Newsgroup Postings (11/10 - 12/06)

Home mainframes
Home mainframes
Home mainframes
PLX
Mainframe Spreadsheets - 1980's History
Anyone here ever use the iAPX432 ?
Who wrote the obituary for John Cocke?
Are ssl certificates all equally secure?
Everything you wanted to know about z900 from IBM
PLX
Are ssl certificates all equally secure?
Home mainframes
Home mainframes
BOYD, the fighter pilot who changed the art of war
Home mainframes
Home mainframes
Home mainframes
PLX
Everything you wanted to know about z900 from IBM
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Mainframe
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Mainframe
IBM Selectric as printer
aads strawman/aSuretee at cardtech/securetech ID
Slow assemblers/Macros?
IBM Selectric as printer
Early computer games
Relocation, was Re: Early computer games
Relocation, was Re: Early computer games
TPF
6670
Computer History Exhibition, Grenoble France
Over-the-shoulder effect
I found the Olsen Quote
Over-the-shoulder effect
Follklore
META: Newsgroup cliques?
So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,
Follklore
META: Newsgroup cliques?
National ID
I found the Olsen Quote
META: Newsgroup cliques?
use of RADIUS
THIS WEEKEND: VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL 5.0
Help me find pics of a UNIVAC please
XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Question about hard disk scheduling algorithms
XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
E-mail from the OS-390 ????
''Detrimental'' Disk Allocation
XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
National ID
?smartcard+fingerprint
E-mail from the OS-390 ????
smartcard+fingerprint
Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
smartcard+fingerprint
smartcard+fingerprint
Defeating telemarketers
smartcard+fingerprint
META: Newsgroup cliques?
So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,
Pismronunciation
Pismronunciation
So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,
They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells
They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells
They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells
(old) list of (old) books
Updated merged security glossary with glossary from NIST 800-37
Newsgroup cliques?

Home mainframes

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Home mainframes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:31:53 GMT
Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> writes:
So did Jay mean that CP/CMS sucks at batch? Surely VM can support batch just fine under some other supervisor?

cms has a cmsbatch ... that isn't even up to the level of os/360 PCP. cmsbatch is sort of like automated terminal session.

but of course you can run some other (much more batch oriented) operating system in a virtual machine ... and do you batch work there. In fact, LPARS are a form of VM subset running in the microcode & hardware (on the bare metal) ... and I would guess that nearly all of the ibm mainframes these days run in LPAR mode. In that sense nearly all ibm maainframe workload running in the world today is running in a form of VM ... one way or another (including batch, oltp, dbms, etc)

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Home mainframes

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Home mainframes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:40:46 GMT
ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes:
At that shop (Alphatext), OS/VS1 was the "guest" operating system. It's MFT on steroids. There was an initiative to move to MVS in guest mode, but the division was killed before that happened. It would have been interesting to compare CMS and TSO on the 4381, but not everyone is as blessed as, say, the Wheelers, in career opportunities. --> B-) <--

most guest operating systems run slower in a VM virtual machine than they would on the bare metal (because of the need for VM to simulate lots of the supervisor state instructions and various other characteristics). However, starting on 148 with VS/1 & VM microcode assists and various tweaking of VS/1 operations ... there were lots of customers that were able to show VS/1 running faster under VM than on the native hardware.

lets say i fell into the career opportunities ... by spending a lot of late nights at the university computing center ... until they give me the whole machine room from 8am sat. until 8am monday ... and the responsibility for supporting the production operating systems. After that I usually tried to schedule things so my first class on monday wasn't until 10am ... it would give me a chance to shower. Pulling a 48hr shift w/o sleep and then doing monday classes sometimes was interesting activity.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Home mainframes

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Home mainframes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 16:51:36 GMT
and although i didn't get as much sleep pulling 48hr shifts (and then going to class) it was more interesting than the job i had up until then washing dishes in university cafeteria (and i was getting paid for spending time at the computing center)

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

PLX

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PLX
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 04:00:08 GMT
SEYMOUR.J.METZ@CUSTOMS.TREAS.GOV (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes:
RPS was first introduced for the 2305 disk, on the 360/85 and 360/195. The next RPS devices were the 3330-1, 3330-2 and 3330-11. RPS was old hat by the time the 3350 came along, much less the 3350, 3375, 3380 and 3390.

Don't forget the 3340 and 3344, or the FBA disk drives (3310, 3370).


2305 also had multiple exposures ... eight logical addresses mapped to the same physical device (all addresses could read all locations).

3344 was multiple emulated 3340s on a 3350 physical drive. the big difference between 3344 & 3340 from programming standpoint was that the 3344 needed special RAS alternate track support (and the number of 3340 cyls. reduced by the cyls used for alternate tracks).

3350 had a fixed-option for the first two cylinders. i tried to get multiple exposures for the 3350 .. so i/o could be initiated/performed/overlapped (on the fixed heads) while the arm was in motion/busy ... but didn't happen.

misc from (in case anybody has rest of the code names):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#63 MVS History (all parts)


           2301       fixed-head/track (2303 but r/w four heads in parallel)
2303       fixed-head/track r/w single head (1/4th rate of 2301)
Corinth    2305-1     fixed-head/track
Zeus       2305-2     fixed-head/track
2311
2314
           2321       data-cell "washing machine"
?Piccolo   3310       FBA
Merlin     3330-1
Iceberg    3330-11
Winchester 3340-35
3340-70
           3344       (3350 physical drive simulating multiple 3340s)
Madrid     3350
NFP        3370       FBA
Florence   3375       3370 supporting CKD
Coronado   3380 A04, AA4, B04
EvergreenD 3380 AD4, BD4
EvergreenE 3380 AE4, BE4
3830       horizontal microcode engine
Cybernet   3850       MSS (also Comanche & Oak)
Cutter     3880       jib-prime (vertical) microcode engine
Ironwood   3880-11    (4kbyte/page block 8mbyte cache)
Sheriff    3880-13    (full track 8mbyte cache)
Sahara     3880-21    (larger cache for "11")
??         3880-23    (larger cache for "13")

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Mainframe Spreadsheets - 1980's History

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Mainframe Spreadsheets - 1980's History
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 05:54:52 GMT
random other apl related refs:
http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/APL-hist.html
http://home.stny.rr.com/wniehoff/apl/graphpakchron.htm
http://home1.gte.net/res057qw/APL_J/IversonAPL.htm
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=255659&coll=portal&dl=ACM&CFID=5598838&CFTOKEN=9027172
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=803802&coll=portal&dl=ACM&CFID=5598701&CFTOKEN=63129146
http://www.apl-online.de/Berlin2000/VP002.PDF
http://web.archive.org/web/20080211172614/http://www.sgmlsource.com/history/G320-2094/G320-2094.htm

the one from SGML ... is goldfarb csc report ... mentioning APL at CSC (in addition to cp/67, the internal network, and misc & sundry other stuff .. gml also originated at CSC; gml is actually goldfarb, mosher and lorie ... and i bet everybody thot it stood for generalized markup language ... ancestor to to all the current MLs, HTML, XML, etc).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Anyone here ever use the iAPX432 ?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone here ever use the iAPX432 ?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:42:35 GMT
David Ball writes:
I remember reading datasheets on the iAPX432 back in about 1981, but I never heard much else about it. As I recall, it had some weird things in the architecture, like bit addressed memory and some OS primitives implemented in hardware.... Seems like I recall some kind of job descriptor block and the CPU hardware could handle scheduling with multiple CPU's.... OTOH, I read all this back in 1981 and I could be mistaken...

Did anyone ever use one ? Whatever happened to it ?

-- David


i never used one ... but some past threads:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#57 iAPX-432 (was: 36 to 32 bit transition
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#62 iAPX-432 (was: 36 to 32 bit transition
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#6 Ridiculous
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#48 Famous Machines and Software that didn't
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#36 What was object oriented in iAPX432?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#2 Minimalist design (was Re: Parity - why even or odd)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#27 iAPX432 today?>

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Who wrote the obituary for John Cocke?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Who wrote the obituary for John Cocke?
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers,bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:47:42 GMT
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#61 who wrote the obituary for john cocke?

a 801/fort knox url that i stumbled across:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030301042035/http://www.midrangeserver.com/tfh/tfh042902-story07.html
misc. past 801/romp/rios/fort knox postings:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Are ssl certificates all equally secure?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Are ssl certificates all equally secure?
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 21:13:34 GMT
ga@braindamage.org (Beavis) writes:
It seems that the various certificate authorities have somewhat different requirements for verifying identities. My question is this: Does it matter?

Suppose that I buy my somesite.com certificate from agent X, which goes to great lengths to verify that I am in fact the owner of somesite.com.

Now suppose that "hacker B" buys a somesite.com certificate from agent Y, who is not as careful and ends up giving "hacker B" a somesite.com certificate even though he has no rights to somesite.com.

Now it seems that "hacker B" can intercept "secure" connections to somesite.com using his bogus certificate.

If this is true then is there any point in my buying from agent X? It seems that the whole system is as weak as its weakest certificate authority.

If not, why not?


SSL certificates security:

1) integrity of the certificates themselves

2) integrity of the business processes that the certification authorities use for creating certificates (side note ... technically they aren't certificate authorities, they are certification authorities; aka they are certifying somebody else's information).

3) integrity of the business processes of the authoritative agency responsible for the information being certified by the certification authority (aka frequently the certification authority is not the authoritative agency with regard to the information being certified). In SSL certificates ... it is who owns the domain name ... and so the domain name infrastructure is the authoritative agency as to actually who owns which domains. one of the failure modes has been domain name takeover, and then get a certificate.

basically the browsers just accept all certificates that have been signed with a private key ... which the browser has the corresponding public key in an internal table.

So the strength of the infrastructure is effectively as strong was the weakest length ... which might actually not be the crypto integrity of the certificate or the business integrity of the certification authority ... but could extend all the way back to the authoritative agency responsible for the information being certified.

misc. past postings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#sslcert

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Everything you wanted to know about z900 from IBM

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Everything you wanted to know about z900 from IBM
Newsgroups: comp.arch,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:06:38 GMT
Robert Myers writes:
The book, apparently, is Exploring IBM's New Age Mainframes, by John L Young, but it's nowhere to be found, at least not with google.

I found lots of hits ... but no actual online book (book listed as published in 96):

one of the hits:
http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/definition/scalability

and one of my past comments:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13

the z/architectue principles of operation is online, url in previous post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#74

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

PLX

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PLX
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:15:35 GMT
SEYMOUR.J.METZ@CUSTOMS.TREAS.GOV (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes:
Memorex reliability may not have been as good as IBM, but it was far better than Itel. However, The STC Superdisk (we called it superdog) was reminiscent of Itel, or the 2321 on an off day; 4 3330 stacks with a single access mechanism.

one of the guys that i worked with was being recruited for CTO at a hardware RDBMS company (after their current CTO had left to form a software RDBMS company) ... and I was asked to come along also. The two that had originally formed the company (hardware RDBMS company carried their name) had previously done memorex disks/controller ... and before that one of them had been engineer on 2321 (there has been this joke about there only being 200 people in the industry).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Are ssl certificates all equally secure?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Are ssl certificates all equally secure?
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 01:16:05 GMT
... in some sense certification authorities are analogous to notary public, they will certify that they've seen something like a driver's license.

one problem might be that the notary doesn't examine the driver's license close enuf to see if it is really valid. another problem might be that the driver's license is so simple that everybody in the world might be running around with a fraudulent/counterfeit driver's license.

in a hypothetical situation, just because the notary's seal is impossible to duplicate ... and every notary is absolutely guaranteed to faithfully have executed the appropriate process .... it still might not be true if the driver's license a trivial to counterfeit.

as mentioned previous posts in
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#sslcerts

one of the primary, original reasons for ssl certs is concern about the integrity of the domain name infrastructure. however, certifications authorities are dependent on domain name infrastructure as the authoritative agency regarding domain name ownership. so there is something of a catch-22 (aka you want a ssl cert to be used because you can't trust the domain name infrastructure ... but the certification authorities are dependent on the domain name infrastructure for the information they are certifying ... the same information you aren't trusting).

in any case, some of the proposals (by the certification authority industry) for improving the integrity of the domain name infrastructure (so that they can trust it) ... also goes a long ways towards allowing everybody to trust it (significantly negating the need for ssl certificates).

there was a glitch today on the IETF PKIX mailing list and brought up some specific threads from a year ago (also listed in the above sslserts discussion):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki5 Software for PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki12 Software for PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki13 Software for PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki14 DNSSEC (RE: Software for PKI)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki15 DNSSEC RFCs, was Software for PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki16 DNSSEC (RE: Software for PKI)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki19 DNSSEC (RE: Software for PKI)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki20 DNSSEC (RE: Software for PKI)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm9.htm#softpki21 DNSSEC (RE: Software for PKI)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm9.htm#softpki22 DNSSEC (RE: Software for PKI)

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Home mainframes

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Home mainframes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:03:30 GMT
jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes:
I doubt seriously that any of the regular readers of this newsgroup need to have the concept of "late night work on the computer" explained to them... <g>

Joe Morris (who for many years saw sunrise only when leaving the office)


it wasn't so much the all nighters and then rest ... it was the 48hr shift and then go to class. later there was this joke about working 1st shift in bldg.28/sjr, 2nd shift in bldgs14/15/disk engineering, and 3rd shift in bldg90/STL.

I was at dinner 3-4 weeks ago with a group and somebody was telling story about (20+ yeargs ago) sitting in a 1st floor conference room in bldg.90/STL and watching the sun come up over the east hills ... and a janitor caming around outside sweeping the concret footing of the bldg (and wishing he could change places with the janitor since some acceptance testing we were working on hadn't been going well; he was with a non-ibm hardware vendor).

bldg.90/stl is set in coyote valley (was almost named the coyote lab) and since it was built has been the only bldg (although at one time tandem had option to build big campus complex and move all its operations ... and then later cisco seemed to have bought the option). the area around the bldg. is somewhat natural. The data center is underneath everything and when it was first built ... was subject to flooding.

sometimes i would work in bldg.90/stl during the day and ride my bike to work. the valley had the interesting characteristic that there was typically a strong head wind heading both directions (in the morning the bay is warmer than the south valley/salinas ... and the air rises over the bay and sucks air from south valley between the santa cruz mountains and the east hills, in the afternoon, the south valley is warmer than the bay and the wind reverses). This is the effect that also moderates SanFran weather ... since the hotter it is in the south valley ... the more air is being sucked from the bay ... and eventually pulling it from the pacific thru the gap at the golden gate (typically the hotter it is in the south valley, the greater the air conditioning effect at the golden gate with stronger pull of cooler air from the pacific)

some old bldg.90/stl stories
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#16 Why Mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#36 why is there an "@" key?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#65 Old naked woman ASCII art
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#75 Read if over 40 and have Mainframe background
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#110 OS/360 names and error codes (was: Humorous and/or Interesting Opcodes)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#212 GEOPLEX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#18 Computer of the century
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#77 Mainframe operating systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#56 South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#58 South San Jose (was Tysons Corner, Virginia)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#72 Microsoft boss warns breakup could worsen virus problem
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#65 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#49 How did Oracle get started?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#18 OT?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#30 OT?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#22 Disk caching and file systems. Disk history...people forget
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#54 FBA History Question (was: RE: What's the meaning of track overfl ow?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#64 VTOC/VTOC INDEX/VVDS and performance (expansion of VTOC position)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#64 Design (Was Re: Server found behind drywall)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#22 Early AIX including AIX/370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#32 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#33 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#34 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#37 Thread drift: Coyote Union (or Coyote Ugly?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#29 checking some myths.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#11 YKYGOW...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#22 ESCON Channel Limits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#46 3270 protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#11 OCO
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#10 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#30 OS Workloads : Interactive etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#13 Secure Device Drivers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#55 Multics hardware (was Re: "Soul of a New Machine" Computer?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#60 Java, C++ (was Re: Is HTML dead?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#61 Java, C++ (was Re: Is HTML dead?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#67 history of CMS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#22 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#24 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#69 Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#6 HONE was .. Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#67 Total Computing Power
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#74 Itanium2 power limited?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#9 Avoiding JCL Space Abends
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#47 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#71 Faster seeks (was Re: Do any architectures use instruction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#36 VR vs. Portable Computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#66 Mainframe Spreadsheets - 1980's History

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Home mainframes

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Home mainframes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:17:57 GMT
... although when i was at 545tech sq .... sometimes i would be working late and miss the last B&M train out of north station ... and have to work thru the west of the night and then walk over to north station in the morning and catch the first train. this is when lechmere was still big warehouse looking bldg with a large paved lot. now that area has gone all really upscale (and the hotel that used to be called the chart house is now a sonesta or renaissance or something ... and surrounded by lotus bldgs.)

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

BOYD, the fighter pilot who changed the art of war

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: BOYD, the fighter pilot who changed the art of war
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.military
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:11:07 GMT
new Boyd biography just hit the streets. I had pre-ordered it from amazon.com and it just showed up today: Boyd, the fighter pilot who changed the art of war, robert coram, little, brown, & company.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316881465/qid%3D1037135329/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr_11_1/102-2143828-2808942

previou biography was: The Mind of War: John Boyd and American Security, Grant T. Hammond, smithsonian institution press (the picture on the back cover of this book is the cover for the new biography).

misc. postings (including threads on the earlier biography from last year):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#boyd

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Home mainframes

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Home mainframes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:47:48 GMT
Peter Flass writes:
"Well" is really all in your definition. IMHO, if what you want to do is run a bunch of compiles in the background it's fine, but you don't get all the queueing and selection features MVS has. You also don't get the facilities of JCL which, for all its faults, is a failrly powerful languahe in itself. Think rinning a series of steps with condition code testing. Think running a job that uses lots of tapes.

the other way of looking at batch vis-a-vis interactive paradigm .... is that the batch sysetms evolved over a period of 40 some years assuming that there was no human participation in the computing process (outside of telling an operating to mount a tape) ... while the interactive platforms have evolved over a 30plus year period assuming that a human was there telling them what to do. The assumptions are radically different and the solutions that evolved are significantly different.

Lots of the interactive platforms, when something anomolous occurs are expected to punt back and interact with the human. A lot of batch systems have evolved to being dim/dark room operations .... where there might not be a knowledgeable person within miles/hours.

An interesting aspect is trying to adopt interactive/desktop evolved platforms for dim/dark room operations (no matter what happens, the service keeps running 7x24). Everything that used to interrupt out to the human for them to take care of ... has now got to be handled automagically.

A couple examples/correllaries have been

1) large financial network that attributed 100 percent availability for a six plus year period (at the time) to

a) automated operator b) IMS hot standby

aka involving a human eventually results in some mistake, misc past automated operator refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#2 Schedulers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#71 High Availabilty on S/390
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#107 Computer History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#128 Examples of non-relational databases
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#136a checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#22 Computer of the century
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#12 Amdahl Exits Mainframe Market
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#43 Life as a programmer--1960, 1965?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#13 LINUS for S/390
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#70 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#71 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#44 Where are IBM z390 SPECint2000 results?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#47 Where are IBM z390 SPECint2000 results?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#8 VM: checking some myths.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#14 HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#18 HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#47 five-nines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#47 Sysplex Info
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#85 The demise of compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#24 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#68 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#73 Where did text file line ending characters begin?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#62 Itanium2 performance data from SGI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#27 why does wait state exist?

2) for the original payment gateway as part of the invention of e-commerce ... i contended that after the straight line application code was written and fully operational ... that there was about four times as much more code written (that was possibly ten times more complex) to turn the "application" into a "service" (for 7x24 operation). related assurance references
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#assurance

misc high availability, continuous availability, 7x24 refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33a High Speed Data Transport (HSDT)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#7 Why Do Mainframes Exist ???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#16 middle layer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#27 Mainframes & Unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#4 Mythical beasts (was IBM... mainframe)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#14 Galaxies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#16 Old Computers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#87 1401 Wordmark?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#145 Q: S/390 on PowerPC?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#64 distributed locking patents
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#83 Ux's good points.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#77 write rings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#22 Is a VAX a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#58 360 Architecture, Multics, ... was (Re: X86 ultimate CISC? No.)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#25 what is interrupt mask register?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#60 monterey's place in computing was: Kildall "flying" (was Re: First OS?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#69 Wheeler and Wheeler
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#70 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#45 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#52 Compaq kills Alpha
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#63 Blinkenlights
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#76 Other oddball IBM System 360's ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#45 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#13 HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#15 departmental servers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#47 Sysplex Info
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#34 Does it support "Journaling"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#63 Filesystem namespaces (was Re: Serving non-MS-word .doc files (was Re: PDP-10 Archive migrationplan))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#17 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#45 M$ SMP and old time IBM's LCMP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#64 History of AOL
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#15 Large Banking is the only chance for Mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#62 Itanium2 performance data from SGI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#5 Dumb Question - Hardend Site ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#22 DOS history question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#41 Home mainframes

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Home mainframes

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Home mainframes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:12:39 GMT
Eric Smith <eric-no-spam-for-me@brouhaha.com> writes:
Were any of the VM microcode assists ever explained in documentation available to customers?

Have the same VM assists been available on most models since then, or are they model-specific?


there were essentially two types of microcode assists

1) privilege instruction execution using virtual machine rules .... aka instead of generating a program interrupt for the privilege instruction, the microcode of the machine recognized that it was in virtual machine mode and executing the instruction using virtual machine rules. The first such set of this started with assist microcode on the 370/158. Various machines have extended until the SIE instruction in 370-XA and then carrying forward until present day with LPARs. This eliminated having to interrupt the CP kernel to simulate the privilege instruction. I believe that all machines that supported 370-XA (and later architectures, aka starting with 3081 20-some years ago) supported SIE. I believe all current machines support LPARs.

2) vm cp kernel code that was copied into microcode originally for 138&148 machines. 370 on the low & mid range machines was microcode on some native processor engine with a typical microcode:370 instruction ratio of about 10:1 (aka there were about 10 microcode instructions executed for every 370 instruction). Basically a variation on the "B2xx" op-code was inserted into the 370 instruction stream with various parameters (including pointer to various 370 addresses when it was done). The various B2xx functions would duplicate (in microcode) the 370 kernel instruction sequence at approximately ten times performance improvement.

This was VM ECPS for the 138/148 and started out with the microcode group in endicott saying that they had 6000 bytes of microcode space and they wanted to pick approximately 6000 bytes of the highest used CP kernel instructions. The following describes the 6000 bytes of cp kernel 370 instruction that were selected for replication in microcode:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#21 370 ecps vm

The selected 6000 bytes accounted for 79.55 percent of kernel excution time.

The 138/148 also supported the #1 enhancement for various privilege instructions that was done for the 370/158 plus a couple additional instructions that hadn't been done by the 158 microcode assist. For the most part, these "assisted" instructions executing in almost the same time/performance as they would in non-virtual machine mode (nearly zero virtual machine simulation overhead).

For the situations were CP kernel was necessary (privilege instructions not simulated by the microcode, task-switch, virtual memory page exceptions, page i/o, etc), the special ECPS B2xx instruction reducted 80 percent of kernel execution time to 8 percent.

VS1 operating system then also had ECPS microcode assists done for it on 138/148 machines. And there were also a different sent of things done for the VS1 operating system where, if it knew it was running in a virtual machine utilized some new interfaces to operate much more efficiently (in some cases relying on the CP kernel to perform functions that it would otherwise do itself ... eliminating some exectuion duplication).

The overall effects might cut cp kernel execution as a percent of total execution from possibly forty percent (with absolutely no microcode help and/or guest operating system sensitivity) to possibly 4-5 percent. In some cases with the VS1 guest operating system enhancements, that 4-5 percent CP kernel time might have originally been 6-10 percent VS1 operating system time (if running on the bare iron) .... resulting in the situation that some customers saw higher thruput with VS1 running in a virtual machine than if it had been running on the bare metal.

there are all sorts of documentation with respect to to SIE (start interpretive execution), PR/SM (processor resource/system manager), LPAR (logial partitioned). Search some of the IBM documentation sites. some random places:
http://www.vm.ibm.com/perf/tips/lparinfo.html
http://www.vm.ibm.com/perf/tips/prgccw.html
http://www.vm.ibm.com/perf/tips/prgvse.html

misc past references to SIE, PR/SM, &/or LPAR:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#37 SIE instruction (S/390)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#45 Why can't more CPUs virtualize themselves?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#57 Reliability and SMPs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#191 Merced Processor Support at it again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#8 Computer of the century
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#63 Mainframe operating systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#86 Ux's good points.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#50 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#51 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#52 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#61 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#62 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#8 IBM Linux
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#50 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#68 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#76 Is a VAX a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#78 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#72 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#5 SIMTICS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#61 Estimate JCL overhead
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#17 Accounting systems ... still in use? (Do we still share?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#23 MERT Operating System & Microkernels
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#2 Alpha: an invitation to communicate
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#33 D
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#71 IBM 9020 FAA/ATC Systems from 1960's
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#73 Most complex instructions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#71 Encryption + Error Correction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#24 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#38 CMS under MVS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#53 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#26 Open Architectures ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#31 Hercules etc. IBM not just missing a great opportunity...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#32 Hercules etc. IBM not just missing a great opportunity...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#6 Microcode?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#44 PDP-10 Archive migration plan
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#53 VAX, M68K complex instructions (was Re: Did Intel Bite Off More Than It Can Chew?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#31 2 questions: diag 68 and calling convention
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#25 Crazy idea: has it been done?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#75 Computers in Science Fiction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#6 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#57 IBM competes with Sun w/new Chips
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#6 Tweaking old computers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#27 why does wait state exist?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#28 why does wait state exist?

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Home mainframes

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Home mainframes
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:34:08 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
This was VM ECPS for the 138/148 and started out with the microcode group in endicott saying that they had 6000 bytes of microcode space and they wanted to pick approximately 6000 bytes of the highest used CP kernel instructions. The following describes the 6000 bytes of cp kernel 370 instruction that were selected for replication in microcode:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#21 370 ecps vm


at the same time I was working on 138/148 ECPS ... I was also working on a thing called VAMPS ... which was a multiprocessor architecture involving 370/125. The 115&125 basic hardware had a 9-ported internal bus for up to 9 microprocessors. In the 115, all the microprocessor engines were the same ... just with different programming; implementing the various controller functions as well as the 370 cpu (i.e. 370 microprocessor engine was identical to the other microprocessor engines ... but with microcode that implement 370 instruction set). The 125 was identical to the 115 except the microprocessor engine used for the 370 CPU was unique and faster than all the other microprocessors. VAMPS was a project that would deploy two to five 125 processor engines on the internal 9-port internal bus.

A problem was that the 138/148 ECPS effort was trying to make the whole 138/148 product line VM (i.e. all machines would be shipped with VM ... in much the same way all machines currently ship with LPAR support). The 138/148 group then viewed the 5-way VAMPS effort moving up into their targeted market segment. So things eventually escalated until there was an executive meeting with the 138/148 group on one side of the table and the VAMPS group on the other side of the table ... and I had a seat on both sides. I also had to carry the majority of the argument for both sides ... logically switching sides of the table depending on which side of the argument I was taking at that particular moment.

random VAMPS references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#68 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#10 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#11 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#6 Ridiculous
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#7 Ridiculous
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#2 Most complex instructions (was Re: IBM 9020 FAA/ATC Systems from 1960's)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#18 I hate Compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#19 I hate Compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#48 Pentium 4 SMT "Hyperthreading"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#80 HONE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#82 HONE

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

PLX

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PLX
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 01:52:59 GMT
tjpo@AIRBORNE.COM (Patrick O'Keefe) writes:
Hmm. The 1130 I remember had cartridge about a foot in diameter, one platter or maybe 2. Could be the "frisbee" mentioned above. I think the 1130 had a lot of scientific or engineering programs available. I know it had an available CALCOMP drum plotter with an IBM label on it.

cambridge science center had a 2250mod4 (I had used a 2250m1 at the university, which was direct 360 channel attach controller) 2250m4 basically was a 2250 with 1130 as the "controller". somebody ported spacewars from pdp1(?) to the 1130 (2250m4). The 2250 keyboard was split in half for two players ... each player using their half of the keyboard for direction control, movement and firing.

the same person did the initial "network" connection done between the 1130 and the 360/67 ... and evolved it into cpremote, vnet, rscs (and the internal network).

One of the things that both SNA and early arpanet did wrong was not having a gateway layer. One of the reasons that the internal network was larger than the arpanet/internet into the 1985 timeframe was that the internal network effectively had gateway support in every node ... something that the internet didn't get until 1/1/83 ("great switchover").

There is also the point that SNA never even had a "network layer" (besides not having a gateway layer).

random past 2250m4 &/or 1130 refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#2 IBM 1130 (was Re: IBM 7090--used for business or science?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#3 IBM 1130 (was Re: IBM 7090--used for business or science?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#67 oddly portable machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#15 APL version in IBM 5100 (Was: Resurrecting the IBM 1130)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#15 internet preceeds Gore in office.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#71 HASP vs. "Straight OS," not vs. ASP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#24 A question for you old guys -- IBM 1130 information
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#71 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#75 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#12 Blame it all on Microsoft
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#16 Pre ARPAnet email?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#13 5-player Spacewar?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#23 IA64 Rocks My World
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#45 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#22 When did full-screen come to VM/370?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#12 Author seeks help - net in 1981
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#34 Does it support "Journaling"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#39 IBM 5100 [Was: First DESKTOP Unix Box?]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#9 Security Proportional to Risk (was: IBM Mainframe at home)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#6 LISTSERV(r) on mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#32 What goes into a 3090?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#19 PowerPC Mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#60 Java, C++ (was Re: Is HTML dead?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#20 6600 Console was Re: CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#44 Unisys A11 worth keeping?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#22 Computer Terminal Design Over the Years
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#75 30th b'day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#16 s/w was: How will current AI/robot stories play when AIs are
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#18 Unbelievable

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Everything you wanted to know about z900 from IBM

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Everything you wanted to know about z900 from IBM
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 03:30:52 GMT
"del cecchi" writes:
One could look at LPAR as VM (not cms) in Hardware. After all, in the old days people used to run MVS under VM for some of the same reasons they now use LPAR.

I'm sure Lynn Wheeler or one of the others can explain it better.

del cecchi


a recent thread that touches on many of the issues in alt.folklore.computers ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#41 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#73 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#0 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#1 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#2 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#11 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#12 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#14 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#15 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#16 Home mainframes

cms, guest operating systems, batch vis-a-vis interactive, microcode assists (which evolved into SIE and then PR/SM & LPARs, specifically in the next to last ref. above), etc.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Mainframe

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Mainframe
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 04:24:19 GMT
SEYMOUR.J.METZ@CUSTOMS.TREAS.GOV (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes:
There was a multiple utility program for the 1401 that let you run copies concurrently, but it didn't let you run other applications in parallel with that. The SPOOL support for the 1410/7010, like the SPOOL for the 7070, 7080 and 7090, let you run the utility functions in parallel with another application.

my first student programming job was duplicating a 1401 program that did UR<->tape as front-end for 709. The 1401 bootable carddeck had "MPIO" written on it. While I was working on it, the unit record gear was switched back & forth between the 1401 and the 360/30 ... when the 1401 was then removed and the 360/30 alternated between 1401 emulation mode and 360 mode. I never programmed the 1401. I did run MPIO ... testing to see if MPIO and what I was doing generated the same results.

I got to design my own interrupt handler, device driver, storage management, dispatcher, etc ... and eventually could handle both tape->printer/punch and cardreader->tape simultaneously ... and assembler deck grew to somewhat less than a box of cards (2000). I had conditional assembly for either stand-alone operation (my own device drviers, interrupt handlers, etc) or under os/360 (I believe at the time PCP release 6).

One of the issues was that assembling it for running under PCP ... I had five DCB macros. The stand-alone version would assemble in around 20 minutes. The PCP version (with DCB macros) would take more than twice that, .... you could watch the lights on the 30 when it hit a DCB macro ... each one taking approx. five minutes elapsed time (and adding nearly a half hour to the total assembly time).

Rather than read/feed/select-stacker ... I would do separate read and feed/select-stacker CCW operations. If the card was BCD the read would complete and then I would do feed/select-stacker. If the card was binary, the read would fail, and I would reread in column binary (read 80 rows into 160 bytes).

from trusty green card ... gx20-1703-7
2540 CCW op-code read, feed, select stacker SS SSD00010 read 11D00010 feed, select stacker SS SS100011 PFR punch, feed, select stacker SS SSD01001 punch, feed, select starker SS SSD00001

where SS stacker D data mode 00 R1 0 EBCDIC 01 R2 1 column binary 10 RP3


--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Mainframe

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Mainframe
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 19:27:24 GMT
"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
I realize that the 360 assembler's macro language is a real bear, but I still couldn't understand why it took so damned long to assemble. The disk-based assembler on the Univac 9300 (Univac's answer to the 360/20) took similarly long - I had one program of about 2000 statements which took 40 minutes to assemble. I wrote my own assembler, which satisfied my design criteria by supporting the full language and doing the job in half the time. (It also added a cross-reference listing, which the Univac assembler lacked.) On a single-tasking machine where programmers had the lowest priority, this boosted my productivity significantly.

I heard a story that the person that was writing the decoder was told that they only had ??bytes (some very small number) ... and so (re)read the records of the lookup table from disk on every statement. DCB macro was in library and was at least several hundred records by itself. Say nominal 20 I/Os per second from 2311 .. 1200 I/Os per minute ... 6000 i/os in five minutes (or possibly 6000 disk i/os for every DCB macro).

Suppsedly somebody investigated and realized that the person doing that part of the implementation had been terribly over constrained and relaxing it a little bit (keeping lookup table in memory instead of sequentially reeading records from disk) speaded up the assembler significantly.

Things were significantly faster by release 9.5 (over release 6).

Later ... HASH had both significant additional function and speedup.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

IBM Selectric as printer

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM Selectric as printer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:09:20 GMT
jcmorris@mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes:
Question for the audience: if the console for the S/360 was a model 7, what were the earlier flavors of the 1052?

"terminal" 1052 ... from cp-67/CMS Version 3 PLM GY20-0590-0

1051/1052 Model 2 Data Communication System

Data Set Attachment (#9114) IBM Line Adapter (#4647) Receive Interrupt (#6100 or RPQ E27428) Required Transmit Interrupt (#7900 or RPQ E26903) Required Text Time-Out Suppression (#9698) Required

sortly after going to 545tech sq I got to take home a "portable" 2741, if I remember correctly a Anderson/Jacabson in two 40(?)lb suitcases and an acoustic modem. After a couple months this was replaced with a real 2741.

Cambridge had a clear plastic flat cover to place over the top opening (holes cut for the paper release) made for all the 2741s to help cut down on the noise (about 1/4in plexiglass, it rested on the paper release, front & sides leaving gap in the rear for paper feed).

They also had table tops made. They were basically 3/4in plywood with formica laminate that sat on the 2741 frame with a cut-out for the typewriter case ... about 24in on one side and back and 6in on the other side. This table top could be flipped over ... placing the 24in side for paper to either the right or the left (of the keyboard). I had kept the table top and plastic cover long after I no longer had a 2741 (until just 4-5 years ago). I still have a APL golf ball tho.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/2741.html

past discussion of 2741 keyboard correspondance & PTTC/EBCD:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#62 ASR33/35 Controls

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

aads strawman/aSuretee at cardtech/securetech ID

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: aads strawman/aSuretee at cardtech/securetech ID
Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 16:40:08 GMT
aads strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads

at cardtech/securetech ID
http://www.ctst.com/conferences/CTST/ID2002/sponsor.html

it has been almost three years since AADS strawman in booths at dec99 BAI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#224

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Slow assemblers/Macros?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Slow assemblers/Macros?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 20:50:23 GMT
"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
I remember "air conditioner wars" between myself, who believes that the purpose of air conditioning is to make things comfortable, and just about everybody else, who believe that the purpose of air conditioning is to make things COLD. What these people failed to realize is that the machines could tolerate any of a fairly wide range of temperatures, as long as it remained constant. Once I got the temperature set so that both I and the machines were comfortable, there were no problems. But these people just couldn't stand the thought of a shirtsleeve machine room environment, so they'd crank the thermostat back down.

there was a story about everybody getting pc/rts in their office in the relatively new almaden research building. supposedly the pc/rts put out so much heat that if everybody turned them off at the end of the day and turned them back on in the morning ... the building air conditioning never was able to stabilize because the BTU swings were so large inside the building ... so they recommended just leaving them on all the time.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

IBM Selectric as printer

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM Selectric as printer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 21:28:40 GMT
lwinson@bbs.cpcn.com (lwin) writes:
For some reason, IBM sold us a 6670 in the early 1980s to use as an inexpensive low volume mainframe report printer in a remote location. It was a bit of pain since we had to add PL/I to our system and it did not appear as a normal HASP remote unit.

6670 first showed up in the late '70s (I think we got our first one sometime in 79) ... it was pretty much an IBM copier/3 with a computer interface. one of the research groups put some amount of time in supporting postscript for the 6670. the print qaulity was excellent, it could duplex (print both sides), and it had two paper feed drawers ... i.e. you could put colored paper in the alternate and use it for easy output job seperator. since most of the job seperator page was empty ... one of the people hacked the line driver to print random entries from the jargon file on the rest of the seperator page.

this caused an incident during an audit ... when one of the top cover sheets sitting on the 6670 when an auditor came around ... had the definition for auditor (i.e. people that go around stabbing the wounded) ... and they thot it was done on purpose for them to read.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Early computer games

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Early computer games
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:23:42 GMT
"keep-it-clean" <keep-it-clean@worldnet.att.net> writes:
In any case, it certainly seems fair to include "relocatability" in this context as part of an assembler's functions assuming the underlying hardware design is amenable to it.

360 had registers that could be used for addressing and mechanism for establishing current address (balr rX,0) for relative addressing (to "using" off some register).

"relocating" in os/360 was a combination of assembler/compiler and loader convention. assemblers & compilers generated ESD and RLD "object" entries. ESD were "entry" symbolic names (1-8 chars) and relative address in object deck. RLD entries provided mechanism for resolving internal/external address "constants". Loader (link/editor) would build symbol table (and address) from all the ESD entries .. and resolve "relocatable" adcons by looking up the the corresponding RLD information in the (ESD) symbol table.

All this was (normally) done before program began execution. Once program started execution it was effectively bound to a specific physical address.

The original stuff that I had done in late CP/67 time frame and ported to early vm/370 was paging access method (mapping the cms file system to a page mapped paradigm) and relocating shared segments (R/O shared segments). The CP support for relocating shared segments was physical address insensitive/agnostic (aka the same shared image/segment could appear simulataneously in different address spaces at different logical addresses). A subset of the relocating shared segment support was released in VM/370 version as "discontiguous shared segment" support. The released version of the code only supported fixed address sharing (aka the same shared object/segment had to occupy the same logical address in in every address space). At least one problem was that relocatable paradigm in os/360 ... which CMS tended to follow ... was that relocatable adcons were actually fixed addresses at execution/runtime ... they were only relocatable in the sense that the relocation was done early at bind/load time ... so what appeared in memory at runtime was a fixed address.

For code that occupied truely relocatable shared segments ... I had to go thru and sensitive all the address constants for address independent operation. I had to make them "abolute" at least as far as the loader/binder was concerned (aka had no RLD entry and had difference between two ESD entries). Basically, I manually created "relative" (or displacement) adcon/address that was then combined with a dynamic (process/address space specific) address in a register (at execution/run time).

A residual of all this appeared in bits and pieces of the product code shipped to customers ... including a CMS SVC202 defined in page zero (aka NUCON dsect). If the first byte following the svc202 was a zero (invalid instruction), the whole four bytes following the svc202 instruction was assumbed to be a four byte address constant field. Standard CMS SVC202 processing had a normal return to the instruction following the svc instruction, unless the first byte was zero, in which case the normal return is four bytes after the svc instruction ... and any immediately following address constant is assumed to be the non-normal/error return. Frequently this adcon was AL4(+4) (but could be the address of an error handling routine, the "L4" was telling the assembler to ignore forcing to a four byte boundary which was normal for address constants) which is a relative adcon from the syntactical standpoint ... but is turned into a relocatable adcon ... and then is filled in with a fixed address by the loader. If there was an error and no adcon, the system call would invoke a system error handler rather than returning for application specific error handling (which might include terminating the program).

To make this work in relocating shared segments ... making executable code address location insensitive, I replaced all "inline" svc202 calls with a BALR (branch and link) to a fixed svc202 system call instruction in page zero (CMS NUCON dsect) of the address space. Later CMS implemented the convention that if the adcon was AL4(1) .. i.e. absolute address of one, that return was to be made to the SVC address plus four (regardless of whether there was an error or not ... basically the equivalent of AL4(+4) but w/o need of real address. The calling program could then determines if there was some sort of unusual return from the system call by checking the condition code and/or a register contents.

Relative addresses (as opposed to what os/360 calls relocatable addresses) have not been a os/360 standard construct.

note in the following:
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/read?fn=STRANGE&ft=MEMO&line=171

the code wasn't necessary for standard discontiguous shared segments released in the product ... however, it was part of all the CMS fixups that I had done to put put additional CMS code in shared segments and make that code "address location" insensitive (i.e. no inline "relocatable adcons"). while not all the CP code to support address agnostic shared segments was included in the initial "discontiguous shared segment" product offering ... all the the CMS changes that I had done shipped pretty much "as is" (i.e. they weren't going to distinquish between changes to make CMS program code "R/O" as opposed to the changes needed to make CMS program code address constant free). After doing some amount of CMS kernel code ... I also did fixup on IOS3270, BROWSE, and FULIST in similar manner.

also:
http://vm.marist.edu/~vmshare/read?fn=CMSSPR2&ft=MEMO&line=147

some past relocatable shared segment discussion:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#75 Mainframe operating systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#9 Theo Alkema

some ios3270, browse, fulist:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#41 IBM 4361 CPU technology
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#60 Living legends
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#61 Living legends
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#108 IBM 9020 computers used by FAA (was Re: EPO stories (was: HELP IT'S HOT!!!!!))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#50 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#76 Is a VAX a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#83 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#8 Theo Alkema
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#9 Theo Alkema
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#5 What goes into a 3090?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#79 Fw: HONE was .. Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?

page-mapped stuff
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#mmap

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Relocation, was Re: Early computer games

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Relocation, was Re: Early computer games
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:22:13 GMT
ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes:
Another relocation was the first 4K of real addresses. (No handy PoO book now.) Why was this specified, where and when was it ever done? It was defined for more than one processor accessing a bank of core, but did VM ever use it physically?

in a real shared memory multiprocessor ... all processors shared the same physical address structure. however, must interrupt handlers were in the habit of storing their current registers in "absolute" (as well as the hardware storing the interrupting address in absolute page zero). This didn't work well with multiple processors sharing the same page zero. For multiprocessor mode, there was a processor specific control register that contained the real address of that processors page zero. Each processor as it came up was to uniquely select some real 4k page and load it into the page zero control register. All real page zero addresses for a processor (program or things like hardware interrupts) would be retargeted to the 4k location specified in the page zero location. The 370 implementation had an "interesting" side effect that if a processor attempted to address the 4k page address in the page zero register ... it would be retargeted to the absolute page zero (otherwise there was no way of referencing the real/real/absolute page zero). (assuming i remember correctly) the 360 implementation didn't have this reverase retargeting side effect (aka 360/67 multiprocessing "lost" the real page zero).

and as to my referenced post

some past postings on ESD, TXT, RLD, etc record formats:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#14 IBM Model Numbers (was: First video terminal?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#31 Is anybody out there still writting BAL 370.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#45 Commenting style (was: Call for folklore)

and for more than you ever wanted to know about current RLD record format, from:
http://www.vm.ibm.com/pubs/cp31032/OBJSTMT.HTML
0000 0 Bitstring 1 Col 1 X'02' 0001 1 Character 3 Col 2 C'RLD' 0004 4 Character 6 Col 5 Blanks 000A 10 Signed 2 OBJRLDLL Col 11 Length of OBJRLDDT 000C 12 Character 4 Col 13 Blanks 0010 16 Bitstring 56 OBJRLDDT Col 17 Rld entries, 8|4 bytes ea 0048 72 Character 8 Col 73 Sequence field

0010 16 Signed 2 OBJRLD1R Byte 00 Relocation ESDID 0012 18 Signed 2 OBJRLD1P Byte 02 Position ESDID 0014 20 Bitstring 1 OBJRLD1F Byte 04 Flag Byte 0015 21 Address 3 OBJRLD1A Byte 05 Absolute address to be relocated 00000018 OBJRLD1N 0010 16 Bitstring 1 OBJRLD2F Byte 00 Flag Byte 1111 .... OBJRLDTP X'F0' RLD type 0000 .. A-type or Y-type constant 0001 .. V-type address constant 0010 .. Q-type address constant 0011 .. CXD type entry .... 11.. OBJRLDTL X'0C' RLD entry length .... 00.. 1 byte .... 01.. 2 bytes .... 10.. 3 bytes .... 11.. 4 bytes .... ..1. OBJRLDTS X'02' RLD relocation sign .... 0. add .... 1. subtract .... ...1 OBJRLDTT X'01' RLD next entry type .... .0 has P & R, use RLDT1DAT .... .1 no P & R, use RLDT2DAT 0011 17 Address 3 OBJRLD2A Byte 01 Absolute address to be relocated 00000014 OBJRLD2N


--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Relocation, was Re: Early computer games

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Relocation, was Re: Early computer games
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:55:46 GMT
ok, multiprocessing page zero prefixing, esa/390 pop:
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/CONTENTS?SHELF=#I%2e0

set prefix instruction
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/10.37?DT=19970613131822

store prefix instruction
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/10.48?DT=19970613131822

discussion of prefixing:
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9AR004/3.7?DT=19970613131822

lots of references where "prefix" is a consideration
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/SEARCH?Book=dz9ar004&searchRequest=prefix&SEARCH=Search&Type=FUZZY&SHELF=&DT=19970613131822&searchTopic=TOPIC&searchText=TEXT&searchIndex=INDEX&rank=RANK

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

TPF

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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 07:19:12 -0700
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: TPF
Newsgroup: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
on 16nov2002 11:59:59 wrote:
Once converted from 360 to 370 architecture (real fun!), PARS was (and TPF is) one of the few systems that runs significantly better under VM than native.

PARS/ACP/TPF didn't have multiprocessor support. One of the initial things for 3081 was using VM to support two processors and then running two copies of TPF under VM (one for each processor). Eventually there was a single processor 3083 delivered ... I believe pretty much because of the TPF market.

misc random tpf/pars/acp/3083 postings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#29 Mainframes & Unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#24 BA Solves Y2K (Was: Re: Chinese Solve Y2K)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#100 Why won't the AS/400 die? Or, It's 1999 why do I have to learn how to use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#103 IBM 9020 computers used by FAA (was Re: EPO stories (was: HELP IT'S HOT!!!!!))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#136a checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#152 Uptime (was Re: Q: S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#233 Computer of the century
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#0 2000 = millennium?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#31 Computer of the century
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#94 Those who do not learn from history...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#20 How many Megaflops and when?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#61 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#65 oddly portable machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#60 Disincentives for MVS & future of MVS systems programmers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#9 4341 was "Is a VAX a mainframe?"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#21 Competitors to SABRE? Big Iron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#22 Is a VAX a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#20 Competitors to SABRE?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#69 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#37 John Mashey's greatest hits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#13 LINUS for S/390
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#2 Block oriented I/O over IP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#35 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#45 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#46 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#47 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#49 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#17 I hate Compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#0 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#9 IBM Doesn't Make Small MP's Anymore
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#2 Computers in Science Fiction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#3 Why are Mainframe Computers really still in use at all?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#43 IBM doing anything for 50th Anniv?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#63 Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#83 HONE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#67 Tweaking old computers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#29 why does wait state exist?

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler lynn@garlic.com, http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

6670

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: 6670
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:37:22 GMT
cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) writes:
I sometimes think that TLA recycling is getting out of hand... when I glimpsed "OPD" I immediately thought of ICL's remodelled Sinclair QL. Oh well...

and then there is ROMP ... Research OPD Mini Processor ... which was going to be the processor in the OPD displaywriter follow-on. When that project got can'ed they were searching around for something to use it for and came up with unix ... and so it was retargted as the PC/RT with the company that had done the AT&T unix port for pc/ix ... doing a port for ROMP (so it has C language and unix operating system instead of pl8 language and the cpr operating system). This then spawns RIOS follow-on chip to ROMP and rs/6000 (and eventually power/pc).

random refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Computer History Exhibition, Grenoble France

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Computer History Exhibition, Grenoble France
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:01:57 GMT
hansp@aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) writes:
Among the classic exhibits are a Bull Gamma 3, the panel from an IBM 360/67, a (working) 1130, a (working) PDP-8/m, a Telemechanique 1600, a Micral N, a Thomson MO5, and a Goupil 2.

... aka (ibm) grenoble science center. in the early '70s they had a 1mbyte 360/67 running CP/67 release 3. They modified it to implement what they called a "working set dispatcher" (and eventually wrote an article that appeared in ACM). About the same time, I was doing some work on CP/67 release 3 ... incoporating some page thrashing controls that I had originally started while an undergraduate at the university ... and the summer I spent helping sent up BCS at boeing. This had some fundamental differences compared to the grenoble work ... including using (clock) global LRU replacement algorithm ... instead of a local LRU replacement algorithm aka working set dispatcher. In any case, the cambridge system with 768k real storage (about 105 available 4k pages after kernel fixed storage reguirements) supported nearly twice as many users at approximately the same thruput as the grenoble system with 1mbyte real storage (about 155 available 4k pages after kernel fixed storage requirements) ... aka the grenoble system had nearly 50 percent more real storage for applications and ran nearly the same CMS type workload ... on nearly the same operating system on nearly the same hardware (and the cambridge system supported nearly twice as many users at approximately the same thruput/response).

This became important when approx. ten years later somebody was trying to get their PhD from stanford with a thesis regarding clock global LRU replacement strategies.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Over-the-shoulder effect

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Over-the-shoulder effect
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:17:57 GMT
Brian Inglis writes:
...thus the teddy bear as the IBM VM (Virtual Machine) OS mascot. And our group uses rubber ducks... "Ask the duck".

the teddy bear started out as the SHARE VM user group mascot ... in much the same way as the paddle for the SHARE MVT user group symbol (as in "up the creek w/o a paddle"). the share issue was that the official corporate position has been to kill the product (pretty much consistent since before cp/67 product announcement 35 years ago) ... and the only thing keeping it alive was customer demand ... and one of the customer's last refuge was the SHARE VM user group ... as in place of last resort ... or security blanket.

random refs:
http://www.princeton.edu:80/~melinda/

share has this sticky labels in the shape of teddy bear ... for putting on your share badge ... indicating committee affiliation. sometimes they are just plain paper with sticky back ... and sometimes they have actually have a fuzzy layer.

scids (evening share ... nominally society for continuous inebriation during share) now has committee tables where people can get together and ask questions. the committee tables now have their symbol or totum (which has somewhat turned into asking the teddy bear questions or getting answers from the teddy bear ... at least at the vm committe table).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

I found the Olsen Quote

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: I found the Olsen Quote
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:00:52 GMT
peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
AFAICT the only thing that the shipping OSF/1 on the Alpha took from IBM was the license. DEC OSF/1 was pretty much a stright 4.3-Reno on Mach, with the good bits of System V userland ported on top of it. The non-AT&T BSD was Net-2 and 4.4-Lite, and that was after Reno shipped.

but who funded the organization that did mach, andrew, camelot, etc. athena at mit was jointly funded by dec and ibm ... however cmu got all its money from one source. there was some story that they paid at least three different times for the same set of code that came from there (as part of the cmu & then transarc saga).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Over-the-shoulder effect

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Over-the-shoulder effect
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:11:15 GMT
Brian Inglis writes:
BTW if any regulars ever wondered what Lynn looked like, I just came across this photo from John Hartmann's (CMS PIPES) 50th birthday party greetings a couple of minutes ago -- hope Lynn doesn't mind me sharing this?
http://vm.marist.edu/~piper/party/small/wheeler1.jpg


the full part reference is at:
http://vm.marist.edu/~piper/party/jph-12.html#wheeler

note the above reference should read that ibm decided not to produce sun machine ... and so SUN was formed. ... also the company in provo that was spawned out of the DataHub effort is still around ... but not doing quite as well as it once was.

there is a more recent of me at the san fran Share meeting this past august. look at
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

about 2/3rds the way down the page there is pointer to the jpg file.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Follklore

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Follklore
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 20:23:08 GMT
Joe Morris writes:
...and I'm chuckling as I wonder how many new readers of any of the "green card" threads in this newsgroup are wondering why we're discussing immigration matters and/or Cantor & Siegel (sp?)...

in the mid-90s ... i was once having dinner in old town mexican restaurant in scottsdale. a couple and a man came in and was seated behind me. I then got to listen to the man for an hour explain to the couple the intricate ins & outs of spamming, how he could send out email to everybody in the world, how he frequently got shutdown ... but he had pre-initialized a hundred userids at ISP around the country and he could switch userids faster than the ISPs could shut him down. He also had suggestions for the couple about configuring their servers so that they had nothing that could accept incoming email (which would likely to be complaints about the spamming).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

META: Newsgroup cliques?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: META: Newsgroup cliques?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:31:50 GMT
jmfbahciv writes:
He may even have had a valid point with his complaint. It's just too bad he had to spoil it with his final line. Until I read that last line, I was going to reply to him and suggest he write the FAQ. Instead, I revised the spelling and told him to something more productive....for him, that is.

and if you consider the thousands of newsgroups ... the idea that they all should show some uniformly consistent, standard whose sole purpose is for the education of others ... the next step after asking about only having politically correct styles ... is about having politically correct subjects and replies.

some newsgroups could actually be for the practitioners (past or present) actually discussing something w/o regard for non-practitioners. comp.arch might be a more extreme example ... where people that haven't done their prep (or ask for help in doing homework assignment) can get taken to task or even ignored.

A counter analogy might be a 9 year old wandering into some post-doc project in say related to subatomic particles and complaining that it is their fault that he (the 9 year old) doesn't understand and can't contribute.

there are some mailing lists and newsgroups that actually have a heavy orientation towards major objective of education and knowledge sharing and they are the most likely to have FAQs. taking an alternative view, one might make the position that any reasonable person would interpret the absence of a FAQ as possible indication that the major motivation for participating in the newsgroup isn't knowledge sharing for addressing the latest & badest security failures.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:58:24 GMT
ab528@freenet.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) writes:
and up pops a pic of a regular contributer _wearing a tie_. I'm sorry sir, that's a disgrace to the newsgroup.

i had to put on a tie for the picture (it went up on display wall of people getting corporate awards) ... however you can see that i'm also wearing a wool (woolrich) hiking shirt ... and you can't see that i'm wearing hiking boots with deep lugs; before they put sidewalk on stretch of cottle (which has since been turned into highway 85) ... there used to be problem about me tracking mud around the halls of bldg. 28.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Follklore

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Follklore
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:07:36 GMT
jmfbahciv writes:
I admire your restraint (I'm assuming you didn't bop him in the nose).

and for those that don't remember cantor & siegel as one of the first large scale spammings ... they were from this little town near phoenix that starts with an S.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

META: Newsgroup cliques?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: META: Newsgroup cliques?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:05:42 GMT
Brian Inglis writes:
We do -- as a bunch of consistently curmudgeonly Auld Farts of Computing -- nothing was said to you that hasn't been said by one of the regular posters to another regular poster -- and possibly more abruptly in those cases. Our community norm for consideration may be expressed somewhat differently than in other communities -- just 'cos mama bear whacks baby bear a couple of hundred metres down the mountain does not mean she's not considering baby's welfare. I've been at sessions where HR people sat in and were amazed/appalled/shocked at how computer people interacted together to get decisions made and get a job done -- it ain't pretty but it's pretty functional.

one boyd story was when he was head of lightweight fighter design at the pentagon ... a one star observed him repeatedly in long stormy arguments with mear lieutenants and captains ... and thot it was unmilitary and used it as an excuse to fire him (not exactly one of the stories in the latest biography). of course ... all of these lieutenants and captains were PHDs in aeronautics ... so they at least had some modicum of qualifications to participate in the discussions.

just saw a B&N that had the new biography on both the new biography shelves and the new non-fiction table. random boyd refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#boyd

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

National ID

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: National ID
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:10:40 GMT
i have a supermarket loyalty card ... i turned in application w/o filling in a single field (completely blank) and they gave me the card.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

I found the Olsen Quote

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: I found the Olsen Quote
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:19:50 GMT
peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
AFAICT the only thing that the shipping OSF/1 on the Alpha took from IBM was the license. DEC OSF/1 was pretty much a stright 4.3-Reno on Mach, with the good bits of System V userland ported on top of it. The non-AT&T BSD was Net-2 and 4.4-Lite, and that was after Reno shipped.

the other thing that went on in the early OSF meetings was the distributed file system stuff ... meetings had people from UCLA Locus, CMU AFS, austin DFS, and some apollo (hp). AFS could do local (disk) caching of full objects. Locus could do partial object (disk) caching as well as process migration (including heterogeneous under specific conditions). There was also some of the MIT Kerberos stuff for distributed authenticated tokens.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

META: Newsgroup cliques?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: META: Newsgroup cliques?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:38:33 GMT
Howard S Shubs writes:
This isn't a public resource. None of USENET is public. Ever since NSF stopped funding the internet, and possibly before, USENET was paid for by the people using it.

usenet grew up pretty much independent of internet. there was various kinds of gov. funding for arpanet and internet ... but by the time of NSFNET-1 backbone ... the NSF funding was small percentage of total resources (even for NSFNET-1 backbone itself). a contrived argument might be that various commercial entities may have declared some their internet contributions as educational/deductable contributions and therefor got a (gov) tax break.

random refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#networking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subindex.html#network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subindx2.html#network

random usenet &/or uucp refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#0 Early tcp development?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#1 Early tcp development?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#40 [netz] History and vision for the future of Internet - Public Question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#138 Dispute about Internet's origins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#140 Dispute about Internet's origins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#146 Dispute about Internet's origins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#147 Dispute about Internet's origins
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#34 Those who do not learn from history...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#26 The first "internet" companies?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#29 The first "internet" companies?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#56 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#19 Is Al Gore The Father of the Internet?^
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#39 I'll Be! Al Gore DID Invent the Internet After All ! NOT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#50 Al Gore and the Internet (Part 2 of 2)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#28 So long, comp.arch
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#57 I am fed up!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#5 what makes a cpu fast
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#19 What is "IBM-MAIN"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#21 What is "IBM-MAIN"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#74 database (or b-tree) page sizes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#24 April Fools Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#26 Can I create my own SSL key?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#62 Modem "mating calls"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#60 JFSes: are they really needed?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#65 UUCP email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#66 UUCP email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#5 YKYGOW...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#19 Very CISC Instuctions (Was: why the machine word size ...)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#20 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#45 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#53 Why is UNIX semi-immune to viral infection?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#75 Disappointed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#0 Disappointed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#43 FA: Early IBM Software and Reference Manuals
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#12 Author seeks help - net in 1981
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#87 A new forum is up! Q: what means nntp
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#37 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#53 Computer Naming Conventions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#57 Computer Naming Conventions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#59 Computer Naming Conventions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#11 OS Workloads : Interactive etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#33 LISTSERV(r) on mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#6 LISTSERV(r) on mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#13 Hardware glitches, designed in and otherwise
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#1 User two factor authentication on laptops
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#44 Unisys A11 worth keeping?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#75 30th b'day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#21 Vnet : Unbelievable
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#26 DEC eNet: was Vnet : Unbelievable
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#48 History of The Well was AOL

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

use of RADIUS

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: use of RADIUS
Newsgroups: comp.security.firewalls
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:24:01 GMT
"W. B." writes:
Check out page 296 on that manual that I previously gave you a link to. They have an example on how to use the authentication+ssl. The actual authentication mechanisim be it RADIUS or internal, is up to you however. Looks like the Netscreen would probably be a sound choice for your application.

radius supports a number of authentication schemes ... there is even a public key mode ...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#radius

this public key mode is akin to the public key mode defined in the ietf pk-init draft for kerberos (aka be able to register a database of users and their public keys ... nearly identical to the way that userid/passwords are registered ... and then be able to authenticate a digital signature using user's registered public keys).

this is different than using SSL to establish an encrypted session and then enter a password ... basically a digital signature is used instead of a password ... and the userid/password database has the user's public key registered in place of a password

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

THIS WEEKEND: VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL 5.0

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re:  THIS WEEKEND: VINTAGE COMPUTER FESTIVAL 5.0
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:56:22 GMT
"Charlie Gibbs" writes:
Maybe it's security - there's only one entrance or exit to watch. I first saw this technique with the latest generation of Safeway stores, although that might just be because (since we're in Canada) the Wal-Mart invasion is still in its early stages in our area. (It's strange how people are so up in arms about big-box stores moving in, considering how enthusiastically they flock to such stores once they open.)

there are some numbers regarding the use of greaters at the store entrance significantly cutting amount of shoplifting (the use of greaters more than pay for themselves in reduction in crime) ... apparently there is some psycology with thieves and being greeted. i've also heard of some study about the introduction of the stores in the UK showing up in reduction in the national avg. cost of living.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Help me find pics of a UNIVAC please

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Help me find pics of a UNIVAC please...
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:46:45 GMT
Sam Yorko writes:
Wasn't that a 360/195? That's what I remember running programs on.

my memory may be slipping; i'm looking for positive information regarding whether it was 360/195 or 370/195 ... they were very similar machines (370/195 had a couple extra of the pre-virtual memory 370 instructions & 370 TOD clock but never got virtual memory ... 370/195 also had better hardware fault retry than 360/195). the machine was decommisioned at sjr sometime in late nov. or early dec '78).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:03:20 GMT
jorn@enteract.com (Jorn Barger) writes:
But human motives are at the root of the XML/semantic-web problem-- even Yahoo's root categories offer a crude model of human motivations (business, entertainment, reference, etc).

So the 'irresistible force' of TimBL's W3C is now in full collision with the immovable object of psychological analysis. [2] And if something's got to give, I'd predict it will be a more-general appreciation of this _blind spot_ in the sciences, and a deeper critique of the current methodology of the social sciences. [3]

When I talk about my various projects over the last three decades, involving literature, Joyce, timelines, Anti-Math [4], and fractal-thickets [5], the compsci crowd has been inclined to snicker (and the lit crowd to sneer, as well).

But there we have XML, and there we have a billion poorly- classified webpages, and the twain just ain't meetin', using any known knowledge-representation. So who's in denial now?


one you missed was ted nelson & xanadu ... the originator of hypertext. a basic issue between xanadu and w3c was bi-directional links. w3c allowed lots of links to appear and grow with-out reguiring the overhead of bi-directional synchronization. as a result there is lost information at the convenience of significant distributed freedom. this is an issue that there is possibly more knowledge in the (bi-directional) relationship of web pages ... than possibly in any specific classification of the pages themselves. to some degree the classification issue is a characteristic of search engines and the desire to use search engines to discover similar things.

possibly the most thoroughly implemented taxonomy is UMLS at NLM (something like 25,000 concepts and 250,000 terms last time i worked on it) that is used to classify medical knowledge. There was recent presentation that I was at claiming that there is still at least a 50 percent variation in the classification of medical documents by professionals at the NLM (i.e.. two professional classifiers with the same training would have a 50 percent difference in the classifications they gave a medical document). Some have made the observation that the "web" is starting to reach the seach complexity level that NLM reached around 1982.

random refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#26 Misc. more on bidirectional links
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#26 Who Owns the HyperLink?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#27 History of Microsoft Word (and wordprocessing in general)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#1 Off-topic everywhere [was: Re: thee and thou

by comparison the merged glossaries and taxonomies that I have put out are much simpler
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/index.html#glossary
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/index.html#glosnote

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Question about hard disk scheduling algorithms

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Question about hard disk scheduling algorithms
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:44:49 GMT
Brian Inglis writes:
Don't know if those algorithms are implemented, but IBM VM certainly used disk RPS features, and afc regular Lynn Wheeler may have worked on some of them. ISTR some FTR buffer optimizations and some paging optimizations to write pages on the next free block under a head. RPS misses were a big concern for IBM at one time and changes were made to software to avoid them.

I did some simple ordered seek queuing for cp/67 which carried over into vm ... bascially an elevator algorithm.

on rotational stuff there were a couple of issues ... optimizing transfer efficiency and minimizing channel busy. Most of optimizing transfer efficiency (in vm paging and cms file system) was careful ordering ... while the 370 "RPS" stuff was primarily minimizing channel busy. The "RPS" stuff didn't actually enter into arm scheduling (i.e. know the current rotational position and schedule the arm motion to a different cylinder position to just in time to pick up a record rotating under the head

CKD disks have a search support that examines record header content to see if it is the desired record to be transfered. because of memory issues in the '60s the match data was in processor memory ... which had to be retrieved as each record rotated under the head. This resulted in dedicating (shared) channel, (shared) controller, and disk until the correct record was found. Worst case scenario could be a multi-track search on 3330 locking up resources for 19 revolutions at 60 revs/sec (i.e. disk operations that took 1/3 second elapsed time).

RPS was introduced in the 3330s which had 20 surfaces/heads ... but only 19 data surfaces. The 20th surface was dedicated to rotational positioning information. If you had carefully pre-organized your data on track surfaces ... you could record the approx. record start position of each record. You could move the arm into position with a seek command ... and then instead of busying the channel and controller until the record had rotated under the head ... the new command could instruct the disk to go off by itself and not bother anybody until the rotation had spun around until a specific location was under the head. At that point the disk was suppose to attempt to reconnect to the processor .. by gaining access to the controller and channel.

This RPS (rotational position sensing) attempted to minimize channel and controller busy during disk non-data-transfer operations (but not directly optimize the motion of the disk arm itself). The downside to RPS was that if either the controller or channel happened to be busy at the moment the disk wanted it ... there was an RPS-miss and the disk had to wait a full revolution to try again. Again the issue was constraint on electronic memory ... there was no track buffering available. Full track buffering came in later that minimized the requirement that there be end-to-end synchronization between the disk head and all the components back to the processor memory.

The issue of taking into account rotational positioning with respect to arm motion has somewhat been dependent on real-time knowledge of existing rotational position at the moment it was decided to move the arm ... as well as all the possible target locations for the arm motion. To be really qeffective that somewhat implies having the queue of requests stored outboard in the disk itself ... and implement the service strategy directly in the disk electronics.

VM attempted to make up for the deficiency in not having real-time information about arm location ... by having a regular ordering of data on disk ... and being able to batch multiple requests in a single operation on a per arm position basis. Given that you might be doing a full disk rotation transfer of data per operation ... there was less advantage loss by not supporting arm rotational position in the arm motion scheduling algorithm (which the processor didn't actually know at any particular instant).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:43:35 GMT
cstacy@dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
Ted Nelson wrote his concept of hypertext in a self-published paperback sort of hippie-looking book called "Computer Lib And Dream Machines" in 1974. His idea was based on an indexing system using numeric codes called "tumblers". By the time I had first heard of it around 1979, he had still been unable to implement it at all, and was reportedly wandering around trying to find a programmer.

i saw him three weeks ago and he is heavily pushing/demoing xanadu
http://www.xanadu.com/

it had some interesting characteristics for displaying complex information.

i've watched it pass thru various interations from the mid-80s sometime.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 19:51:03 GMT
cstacy@dtpq.com (Christopher C. Stacy) writes:
Some of the first real Hypertext systems were implemented in the early and mid 1970s. For example, the EMACS "Info" subsystem used both hierarchical table-of-contents and hyperlinks.

there is also engelbart's augment ... it went thru iterations and eventually settled at tymshare. i ran across it periodically ... including when M/D acquired tymshare and I was called in to do some due diligence on stuff that they would spin off.
http://web.archive.org/web/20011020230637/http://www.histech.rwth-aachen.de/www/quellen/engelbart/ahi62index.html
http://www.hastingsresearch.com/augment/
http://www.welchco.com/sd/08/00101/02/99/12/22/104523.HTM

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:06:26 GMT
jorn@enteract.com (Jorn Barger) writes:
Doug Lenat's Cyc Project [1] is generally considered to be more airy than engineery, I think-- they're trying to market it as a universal ontology for intercommunication between databases, and XML has turned that into a hot market, but as far as I know the Cyc solution is just too clumsy to seem practical.

i've had very little to do directly with Cyc ... other than possibly running into doug at various MCC meetings (when mcc still existed). Did do some work with some other semantic related operations at MCC tho.

COIN project at MIT has also done a lot of work on things like semantic operation of database integration ... somewhat focused opportunities with mergers of financial institutional ... and being able to consolidate data processing operations.

so ... slightly to bring it to a.f.c. ... one of the primary players at COIN was the person that wrote the original SCRIPT for cp/67 cms at the cambridge science center (all these many years ago in the mid-60s). Then in 70, G. M. & L. created GML (also at the cambridge science center) which was then integrated into SCRIPT (so script had support for both dot-type formatting controls and GML type formating controls). The GML effort then spawned SGML, HTML, XML, ECML, FSML, etc.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers,alt.hypertext
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:28:57 GMT
jorn@enteract.com (Jorn Barger) writes:
(I don't see how this solves classification, either.)

i didn't say that it addressed classification ... it was different ways of finding documents. the example is the UMLS taxonomy for classification of medical knowledge. Classification isn't being done as an end in itself aka classification is being done not for the sake of performing classification ... and then not used for any reason ... it is typically used as an aid for people finding related documents or documents of particular kind. In the NLM case, there are professional classifiers that are trained in the taxonomy. References to medical knowledge are entered into the library including references using the classification. one of the uses of the taxonomy in NLM is not only the classification themselves the systematic use of broadening and narrowing ... a "broaden" term will increase the hits ... a "narrowed" term will decrease the hits. Besides having professional classifiers ... people are trained both in the terms but also in being able to broaden/narrow the search space.

another way of finding related documents is having direct pointers to related documents. in fact, i heard a presentation that the major search engines will weight/order hits in part based on them being referenced by other documents.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

E-mail from the OS-390 ????

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: E-mail from the OS-390 ????
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:40:27 GMT
kpneal@POBOX.COM (Kevin P. Neal) writes:
Well, this answers the question "Why use SMTP instead of sendmail?" but does not address why IBM had to reinvent the wheel (again).

Why didn't IBM just add SPOOL support to sendmail? It's not like the source is hard to come by or anything.


original IBM tcp product was for VM written in Pascal ... including the SMTP processor. This was ported to MVS (for the mvs product)... even down to the point of emulating some of the CP kernel interfaces used by the VM product. This included SMTP support for standard spool (running on either platform).

at the time there were lots of vendors writing their own tcp/ip software support ... so that was not particularly unusual.

I had done the RFC 1044 support for the product. The base product had around 44kbyte/sec thruput consuming nearly a full 3090 engine (either vm or mvs). The rfc 1044 support was able to achieve around 1mbyte/sec thruput (limited by channel hardware) using only a modest amount of a 4341 engine.

I also wrote an IBM mail<->822 translator in REXX. Originally this was used for people with both VM userid and unix workstation ... you could sent things up so that all your incoming IBM email (in a variety of formats) would be translated/gatewayed to 822 and forwarded to your unix workstation.

RFC index:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

''Detrimental'' Disk Allocation

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: ''Detrimental'' Disk Allocation
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:19:15 GMT
the 3880-13/sheriff disk caching people had some interestisng performance numbers they advertized. this was 20 years ago. the 3880-11/ironwood was a record/page cache .. targeted at 4k page/record data. 3880-13/sheriff was a full-track cache. they published some numbers that sheriff had better than 90 percent cache hit ratio. this was for application reading sequential data with 10 records per track; aka the application would read the first record on the track ... which caused the whole track to be brought into cache. the program then would sequentially read the other 9 records on the track ... all being cache hits ... resulting in the 90 percent cache hit ratio. a trivial change in the data definition for the application ... specifying full-track (aka 10 record) buffered reads would have changed the cache hit ratio from 90 percent to zero percent (aka every application read would have resulted in a cache miss).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers,alt.hypertext
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:25:12 GMT
jorn@enteract.com (Jorn Barger) writes:
>http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#27
>History of Microsoft Word (and wordprocessing in general)

This one has nothing about Word or wordprocessing, so I feel you've wasted my time (so I'm now inclined to ignore all your links in the future).


which is a comment about the convention of changing or not changing subject line during thread drift. the english on that reference is from the subject line of the posting ... and presumably you could go to google and find the complete thread with all postings with that subject line ...

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:40:07 GMT
jorn@enteract.com (Jorn Barger) writes:
I was trying to emphasize that there's a continuum, and embedded formatting is not necessarily at the 'evil' end. My question about Goldfarb-et-al was really, "How did this weak hypothesis-- that separating structure from formatting is desirable-- become the unquestioned doctrine of a semi-fascist hate-cult?" ;^/

we all worked on the same floor at 545 tech sq. in the late '70s i tranferred to the west coast (about the time-frame of sgml). within a year ... "G", "L" .. as well as the guy at cambridge that is responsible for the internal network also followed. "L" went to work on BLOBs in system/r and r-star. "G" continued on with sgml activity.

somewhat in parallel ... CERN had done the big tso/cms bake-off report approx. '74 and adopted vm/cms. Their sister location SLAC and CERN had very similar vm/cms operations and put a lot of effort into it and also shared things between the two locations. That could have contributed to the pretty independent evoluation of HTML from people at CERN ... compared to what "G" was doing first at tech sq ... and then out in san jose. I believe slac claims to have the olddest web server in existence (or possibly referring to the content on their server ... or the lineage of that server).

A lot of the other stuff came out of the browser culture ... much of it went on pretty independent of GML/SGML/HTML culture. My wife and I spent a year working with this small client/server startup on being able to support financial transacgtions on the server. We were mostly dealing with the people on the server side for the creation of electronic commerce ... and had much less contact with the people on the browser side.

in the following posts there are some URL references specifically drawing connections between electronic commerce, x9.59 and server stuff
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#52 misc loosely-coupled, sysplex, cluster, supercomputer and electronic commerce

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: XML, AI, Cyc, psych, and literature
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:41:19 GMT
and random other refs: to 4th floor, 545 technology square activities:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 19:30:22 GMT
Christopher Browne writes:
A digital certificate might be somewhat more robust than a simple 9 digit decimal number, but nonetheless if it is as centralized as the SSN, it will suffer from similar sorts of vulnerability to attack.

It may very well be preferable for different sectors of society to use different kinds of identity certificates, thus making them more resistant to attack.


independent of digital certificates and certification authorities ... digital signatures and asymmetric cryptography can be used for authentication. in its simplest form .... substitute shared-secret authentication (that exists in large number of existing business processes) with digital signature authentication. This can be done w/o the existing business processes w/o resorting to certification authorities by registering the public key in place of a shared-secret.

The obvious advantage of public key authentication is that the public key is only used for validating a transaction, request, message ... it can't be used for originating requests. This eliminates the master file harvesting that goes on today for fraud purposes ... that can enable fraudulent transactions aka acquiring the master file of shared-secrets allows fraudulent transactions to be originated ... somebody harvesting a master file of public keys ... doesn't enable origination of fraudulent transactions. Slightly related thread on security proportional to risk:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#61 Security Proportional To Risk

This use of digital signature technology is totally independent of whether certification authorities and digital certificates are involved at all.

The issue of certification authorities and digital certificates were targeted at an offline world ... i.e. when there isn't online access to the authoritative agency responsible for the information ... a stale, static subset of an authoritative agency's information can be encapsulated in a digital certificate and made available for use by relying-parties that don't oltherwise have online technology.

The issue that the original x.509 identity certificate activity ran into problems with .... was that frequently it wasn't predictable what kind of information relying-parties might be interested in ... as a result there was an initial effort to overload such certificates with huge amounts of privacy information. Before any significant deployment of such implementations went into effect, most business operations realized such collection of information represented huge privacy violations and possibly even liability problems.

Note that in the (some still emerging) world-wide, online, all the time environment ... if anything of value is involved ... an online reference is made to the responsible authoritative agency for up-to-date information (rather than superfluous stale information contained in a digital certificate). That somewhat leaves digital certificates useful for the remaining offline environments and/or online environments involving transactions of no-value.

related recent post:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#41 Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-pkix-sim-00.txt

misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#publickey

and also aads model, public key authenticaiton and agnostic with regard to whether certificates are redundant and superfluous
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:35:49 GMT
"Andrew Swallow" writes:
Does this reduce the certificate to containing the keys for the indexes such as the person's name, nationality and (passport?) serial number?

For physical inspections a copy of the person's photograph, occupation, date of birth, sex, height, finger print and physical signature would be useful.

I suspect that what is required comes down to - 1. A passport whose electronic copy is protected by a digital signature. 2. Databases indexed by passport number. 3. International rules on the format for passport numbers.


in the financial transaction case ... the transaction contains the number ... there is digital signature ... and any appended digital certificate contains just the account number and the public key.

The transaction is routed to the online authority by the number in the transaction, the online authority retrieves the respective account record by the number in the transaction. The account contains a copy of the public key ... which is used to validate the digital signature.

The existance of the certificate in such an environment is trivially shown to be redundant and superfluous ... since the number has to occur in the transaction ... and the public key (effectively) will be in the account record.

So in a business sense ... either there has to be a unique (redundant and superfluous) certificate for each business operation ... each with its own business unique number ... ar all businesses in the world agree on the single common unique number of each unique person.

In the reference to a recent posting on the subject ... there is mention of the alternative FSTC FAST model ... the end-user makes a signed assertion as to some piece of information and the relying-party sends off that assertion to the appropriate authoritative agency for confirmation. This is in effect, the real-time, online information paradigm ... as opposed to the certificate, offline, stale information paradigm. The advantage of real-time, online is that it is real-time, and online ... it also can handle assertions that have to do with aggregation (like limit on number of transactions in a period or things like max. spending or credit limit ... like financial transactions).

Another trivial advantage is that I can assert that I'm over 21 and live in a location that is allowed to purchase wine. I don't actually have to provide either my birth date or address ... the authoritative agency then just confirms or rejects my assertions.

Part of this is clearly delineating the difference between authentication (and authorization) vis-a-vis identification. Let's say I'm issued hardware token that has both PIN and biometric matching capability ... that performs digital signatures. If i correctly enter my PIN and/or biometric information ... the hardware token validates such information ... and then performs a digital signature operation ... the authoritative agency can authenticate & authorize me ... w/o having to actually identify me on every transaction. The appropriate operation of the hardware token is sufficient to indicate valid 3-factor authentication (aka something you have, something you know, and something you are) w/o having to actually perform an identification operation.

The distinction is that the vast majority of the operations don't need to proove your identity as part of authorizing a transaction ... they just need to authentication that you are authorized to do what you are asserting. This can be a US citizen, greater than 21 years old, or some other characteristic.

The vast majority of equating digital certificates to paper/physical credentials are left over from pre-online (let say pre-1970s). Starting in 1970s ... almost everything involving any operation or transaction of value started migrating to online operations. The credit/debit/financial world started migrating to online in the 1970s (in some respect some of the certificate proposals in the 90s for financial operations were in effect trying to turn the clock back at least 30 years).

One could claim that customs and immigration just need a number to get online information. While it is nice to have an offline document that has your face ... what they really want to do in the modern online world is to reliably match you up with online information .... which not only has a little ticker that says you might actually be a us citizen ... but possibly how many times you have taken international trips in the last 30 days ... what sort of things have you been declaring or not declaring ... and/or to see if there are any real-time alerts (which typically wouldn't have been inserted in your passport at the time it was manufactured). Again .. the assertion that anything that involves anything of real importance will reference online information ... and it is only left to the no-value, offline operations where a certificate for use for no-value things is of interest.

A side issue then arises that if the certificate is not useful for things of value and importance and only useful for things of no-value and no-importance ... what sort of value proposition is there for creating and supporting certificates (if they aren't going to be used for operations of value and importance)?

Who would pay for a complex certificate infrastructure if such an infrastructure is only of use in no-value and no-importance operations?

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

National ID

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: National ID
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 20:53:14 GMT
Brian Boutel writes:
Do you always have to sign it? Here in NZ, while that is still possible, most people key in a PIN.

I suppose that works because we have a single nationwide EFTPOS network, using the same cards as ATMs, and all major credit cards use it too. Virtually all shops and cafes have a terminal. I haven't seen a zipzap for years. The terminal prints a slip, and you either key in a PIN or sign the slip.


slightly related cross-over from sci.crypt
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#56 Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#57 Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

?smartcard+fingerprint

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: ?smartcard+fingerprint
Newsgroups: alt.technology.smartcards
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:53:36 GMT
m.lyubich@computer.org (Mykhailo Lyubich) writes:
does anybody know a successfull integration of the smartcard and the fingerprint sensor, which is possible to buy on the market?

part of the problem is that iso7816 smartcard standard includes card "flexibility" standards that creates problems for most fingerprint sensors (fabrication of a fingerprint sensor that can be embedded in a smartcard meeting iso7816 smartcard standards ... and still continue to work).

now there are some that have "line" sensors that you have to drag your finger across for the reading. These line sensors have much less problem meeting flexibility standards for smartcards. The problem is that they seem to be finding that to get good readings from dragging your finger across a line sensor ... you just about have to have "guides" ... typically ridges on both sides and/or depression. These "guides" then tend to violate the flexibility standards.

however, the line sensors do seem to have a number of operational characteristics

at cardtech/securtech id show last week
http://www.ctst.com/conferences/CTST/ID2002/index.html

there were a number of USB dongles that had built-in line fingerprint sensor ... and the keyfob/dongles had depression/groove for guiding the finger as it is being dragged across the sensor. the USB dongles have many of the charageristics of a smartcard just not in an iso7816 form-factor and/or with iso7816 contacts.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

E-mail from the OS-390 ????

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: E-mail from the OS-390 ????
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 22:50:06 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
RFC index:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm


also as an aside 821/822 have been obsolted by 2821/2822
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcidx9.htm#2822

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

smartcard+fingerprint

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: smartcard+fingerprint
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:22:25 GMT
Jan Panteltje writes:
Dunno, but in a recent test in the Dutch magazine C'T it was shown that not any fingerprint sensor was worth any thing as far as security goes. One would even activate (you could get access) by breathing on it. The condensation made the finger print of the previous person appear.... Combining it with a smart card would give it the same security as a smartcard alone. Hope that is a hint.

posting to the same question posted to alt.technology.smartcards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#59

one of the things that the line/swipe sensors do ... besides being more flexible (although there is now the guide question) ... is image from previous sensings are left on the device. the issue has been that it has been hard adapting full print sensors to the iso7816 smartcard flexibility standard. there has been somewhat more success adapting the line sensors that you drag your finger across to the 7816 card flexibility standard. however there is now starting to be some evidence that a guide is needed while dragging the finger across ... which now also now tend to have problems meeting flexibility standard.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:39:01 GMT
"Andrew Swallow" writes:
Outside of the USA everyone pays for their own passport. Photographs and embedded chips are already being added to credit cards.

The advantage of a photograph on the document is that the clerk can verify that the certificate has not been stolen. The electronic photograph and finger print do the same.

Verification of the person against the certificate is an anti-fraud matter of high value and major importance.

Andrew Swallow


a couple of issues ... one is the assumption that financial institutions can rely on merchant clerks for properly doing the checking. in fact, there have been quite a few scenarios where it has been demonstrated that the consumers financial institution might not always be able to rely on the merchant bank or the merchant. The merchant (and therefor the merchant's bank) interest is that every transaction be approved. frequently clerks are under time constraints on how fast they get a transaction thru the system.

the counter example is that the consumers financial institution can rely on the correct operation of the card ... regardless of whether there is a clerk at a POS ... or the POS is totally unattended. If the correct operation of the card includes two-factor (something you have and something you know) or even three-factor (something you have, something you know, and something you are). as more and more things move into distributed, network environment ... with transactions potentially involving international oeprations ... having to rely on a clerk (which may or may not actually exist) is actually quite problematical. Lets say it is the clerk at mcdonalds (i think I saw in the news this morning ... that mcdonalds will start accepting debit & credit cards) ... do you believe the mcdonalds clerk is going to police whether a card has been stolen or not? Or let say it is a gas pump or a atm machine that has no clerk.

there is on going thread in alt.folklore.computers that started out regarding national id .... about the number of people who have used another family member's credit card; say somebody's daughter is using their father's credit card that includes their father's picture, name and signature ... and no problem taking the card into a "strange" (i.e. totally unknown to any family member) merchant and successfully using the card.

now as to somewhat parallel thread on token & fingerprint. One of the issues about having fingerprints with match on card for payment cards ... isn't necessarily that fingerprints are actually more secure ... it is that some significant percentage of the population write their PIN number on their payment card. There is small added difficulty for a theif using a fingerprint stolen card ... than a PIN stolen card ... where the PIN has been written on the card.

in any case ... there is a big different with regard to who is being relied on to perform the operation ... and whether their financial interests in any way coincide with the responsible parties or the consumers or anybodies (or even if there is a "who" to actually rely on).

one of the tasks given the x9a10 committee for work on x9.59 standard was to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for all electronic retail payment transactions (aka retail, internet, non-internet, face-to-face, point-of-sale, clerk present, no clerk present, totally automated, non automated). misc. x9.59 references

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Certificate Authority: Industry vs. Government
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:11:28 GMT
"Andrew Swallow" writes:
Personal Identification Numbers (PIN) as a problem with finger prints?!?!

Were you drunk when you wrote this paragraph?


the meaning was suppose to be that PINs are a problem when people write them on their card. for some, the solution of fingerprint (or other biometrics) for payment cards might not be considered more secure than general PINs ... but they are possibly more secure than PINs written on cards (i.e. it is harder to lift & duplicate a fingerprint on a card ... than it is to lift and duplicate a PIN on a card).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

smartcard+fingerprint

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: smartcard+fingerprint
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:18:09 GMT
Francois Grieu writes:
This interesting argument goes against sensors on the Smart Card iself, as the owner of a Smart Card is the same from transaction to transaction.

which is one of the supposed advantages of the line sensors where the finger is drawn across the sensor. there is still the issue of picking up a latent print on the card itself and duplicating that print ... dragging it across the line sensor. as in the ongoing certificate thread in this n.g., ... there is some likelyhood there is latent print on the card which could be lifted, duplicated and dragged across the sensor ... but that technology typically is considered more difficult than lifting a PIN written on the card (aka the comparison isn't between a latent print on the card and a really secret pin ... it is between the difficulty of lifting a latent print on the card and duplicating that entry of that print ... vis-a-vis lifting a PIN written on the card and duplicating the entering of that PIN)

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

smartcard+fingerprint

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: smartcard+fingerprint
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 19:35:06 GMT
Peter Fairbrother writes:
I'd guess that there are more fingerprints on cards (which are after all shiny and good surfaces for fingerprints) than PIN's written on cards. The tech to duplicate them isn't hard, it's like making a PCB, which anyone can do. And the user can't be expected to keep his prints off cards as a security requirement.

but a person could choose to register a finger that has the lowest probability of being on the card.

so one way is to offer it as a personal choice option .... those people who find the conveninece of fingerprint &/or are otherwise inclined to write their PIN ... might find fingerprint a preferrable choice to PIN. Others might wish to have 16 digit PINs that they can remember and regurgitate effortlessly. the financial institution might then use compensating procedures depending on which choice was exercised.

Some of the writing PINs seems to be somewhat associated with frequency of using the card .... people who almost never use any card ... and therefor are not inclined to remember the PIN ... or people that use lots of different cards ... and are possibly inclined to mis-remember PINs and/or not remember for infrequently used cards (unless they've been able to set them all the the same value).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Defeating telemarketers

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Defeating telemarketers
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:12:21 GMT
Pete Fenelon writes:
I hate telephones. More specifically, I hate telephones ringing when I don't want them to. I've always taken the attitude that my telephones are for my convenience, not for other people's, and therefore my numbers are given out on a "need to know" basis. Caller-ID blocked whenever possible, too. Certainly works for me. The only marketing calls I get are from the phone company... and they've been told firmly that I won't be buying any more services from them (my voice line is merely a legacy that I need to keep around to have an ADSL line; I think for six months there wasn't even a phone plugged into it; I make 95% of my voice calls on my cellphone which just about uses up the free allocation of minutes) I don't even give out my DDI office number outside the company if I can avoid it.

i was at a presentation a couple weeks ago where somebody explained how the telezappers work (radio shack, etc) ... which emit a tone to tell the telemarketers to go away. telemarketers are typically computer programmed dialing ... the computer listens for somebody to pick up before transferring it to the first available person in the stable. if it gets various kinds of telephone company error messages, it marks the number as not in operation, hangs up, and goes on to the next number. the telephone company error message that indicates that a number is not in operation starts with specific/unique three tones. the telezappers reproduce the same tone. the person demonstrated by whistling the tone (i.e. if you don't want to buy a telezapper, learn to whistle that tone).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

smartcard+fingerprint

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: smartcard+fingerprint
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:00:16 GMT
Anne & Lynn Wheeler writes:
so one way is to offer it as a personal choice option .... those people who find the conveninece of fingerprint &/or are otherwise inclined to write their PIN ... might find fingerprint a preferrable choice to PIN. Others might wish to have 16 digit PINs that they can remember and regurgitate effortlessly. the financial institution might then use compensating procedures depending on which choice was exercised.

as part of the x9.59 standards work to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for all payments ... the work looked at how to provide high integrity transactions for all environments (including things like unattended POS terminals or internet ... etc, where there isn't a human to examine the card).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959

in x9.59 digitally signed transactions ... the environment performing the signing operation could be somebody's PC software, single factor authentication hardware token, 2-factor authentication (something you have and something you know ... like a PIN), or 3-factor authentication (something you have, something you know, and something you are ... like biometric). if the hardware token performs the PIN and/or biometric matching ... then the digital signing and transport of the transaction can be identical regardless of the method of the originating environment.

note however, the relying-party ... like a financial institution responsible for resolving the transaction can have assurance factors built into its transaction risk management operation; ... aka various assurance related items are "registered" and are used by the transaction risk management infrastructure as part of transaction operation. Some assurance items can be token/no-token, kind of token, PIN/no-PIN, biometric/no-biometric. Other assurance factors might involve the end-points ... like is a particular transaction involving a hardware token used in conjunction with a FINREAD complient terminal or not. It is potentially possible that the same hardware token operate in a number of different modes for different kinds of transactions ... and the risk management infrastructure dynamically adjusts to the specific operational environment for the specific transaction (possibly personal choice with regard to kind of token ... but personal choice might change for different kinds of transactions).

this somewhat relates to security proportional to risk. from a risk management standpoint ... "security" can also translate into amount of assurance (possibly level of certification of various components) or amount of insurance. some related discussions of adaptable/agile assurance with regard to things like hardware tokens or no hardware tokens:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads

past discussions with some mention of writing PINs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#165 checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#172 checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#biometrics biometrics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#bio3 biometrics (addenda)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#bio6 biometrics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#6 Biometric authentication for intranet websites?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#8 Biometric authentication for intranet websites?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#41 Biometric authentication for intranet websites?

past discussions of personal choice
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#35 does CA need the proof of acceptance of key binding ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#73 PKI and Non-repudiation practicalities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#63 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#8 Biometric authentication for intranet websites?

misc past FINREAD refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#keygen2 Welome to the Internet, here's your private key
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#4 AW: Digital signatures as proof
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#5 Meaning of Non-repudiation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#6 Meaning of Non-repudiation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#23 Proxy PKI. Was: IBM alternative to PKI?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#24 Interests of online banks and their users [was Re: Cryptogram: Palladium Only for DRM]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm9.htm#carnivore Shades of FV's Nathaniel Borenstein: Carnivore's "Magic Lantern"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay7.htm#3dsecure 3D Secure Vulnerabilities? Photo ID's and Payment Infrastructure
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#57 Q: Internet banking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#60 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#61 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#62 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#64 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#25 Net banking, is it safe???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#26 No Trusted Viewer possible?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#0 Are client certificates really secure?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#6 Smart Card vs. Magnetic Strip Market
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#9 Smart Card vs. Magnetic Strip Market
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#10 Opinion on smartcard security requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#21 Opinion on smartcard security requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#46 Security Issues of using Internet Banking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#55 Security Issues of using Internet Banking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#69 Digital signature
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#38 Convenient and secure eCommerce using POWF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#13 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#26 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

META: Newsgroup cliques?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: META: Newsgroup cliques?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 02:52:52 GMT
jbmiller@world.std.com (Janice Miller) writes:
It still probably depends. When I went to Cascade (frame relay and ATM switch manufacturer, now part of AT&T) seven years later, in 1993, I was the first woman in Engineering, and there were guys in software five, ten years older than me, who had never, in their entire careers, worked with a woman engineer. In support or tech. writing, yes, but never in engineering. There didn't seem to be much crossover between system software and network switch firmware (I was in network management), though other companies, some of them, had more women. It's kind of interesting that the proportion of men to women seems to stay nearly constant in an organization, over several years, even when the headcount increases by quite a bit. Comms software at Data General, when I was there, stayed pretty constant at about 1/3 women.

my wife and i were doing some consulting for an operation 5-6 years ago ... and they found out that the project was going to have an audit and we were asked to handle the review. we did presentation and answered lots of questions. towards the end ... the person doing the audit got a little less formal and we were sitting around with others kibitzing. somebody brought up what schools people had attended. he mentioned a particular university and my wife asked him what years and what school. she then commented that she was the only female in the engineering graduate school at that time. He replied ... no you weren't ... and mentioned somebody ... my wife said that was her. He looked at her again and said something about her having gotten a lot older ... so she told him that he had also. random ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#15 Glass Rooms (was Re: drum memory (was: Re: IBM S/360))

after school she worked in the JES group in gburg and then was con'ed into going to pok to be responsible for loosely-coupled (aka cluster) architecture. there she originated peer-coupled shared data ... which saw some deployment as IMS hot-standby ... and then much later as parallel sysplex.

misc. peer-coupled shared data, ims hot-standby, and/or parallel sysplex refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#30 Drive letters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#35a Drive letters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#36 What is MVS/ESA?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#37 What is MVS/ESA?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#40 Comparison Cluster vs SMP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#57 Reliability and SMPs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#71 High Availabilty on S/390
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#77 Are mainframes relevant ??
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#92 MVS vs HASP vs JES (was 2821)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#100 Why won't the AS/400 die? Or, It's 1999 why do I have to learn how to use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#128 Examples of non-relational databases
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#212 GEOPLEX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#13 Computer of the century
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#31 Computer of the century
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#45 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#47 Does the word "mainframe" still have a meaning?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#29 OT?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#30 OT?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#37 OT?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#54 360 Architecture, Multics, ... was (Re: X86 ultimate CISC? No.)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#73 7090 vs. 7094 etc.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#2 Z/90, S/390, 370/ESA (slightly off topic)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#69 Wheeler and Wheeler
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#70 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#71 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#2 Block oriented I/O over IP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#44 Where are IBM z390 SPECint2000 results?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#44 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#46 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#76 Other oddball IBM System 360's ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#41 Withdrawal Announcement 901-218 - No More 'small machines'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#43 Withdrawal Announcement 901-218 - No More 'small machines'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#52 misc loosely-coupled, sysplex, cluster, supercomputer, & electronic commerce
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#23 OT - Internet Explorer V6.0
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#13 HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#14 HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#18 HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#47 five-nines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#3 News IBM loses supercomputer crown
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#47 Sysplex Info
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#65 Holy Satanism! Re: Hyper-Threading Technology - Intel information.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#85 The demise of compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#54 Computer Naming Conventions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#25 Crazy idea: has it been done?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#6 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#48 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#12 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#73 Where did text file line ending characters begin?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#45 M$ SMP and old time IBM's LCMP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#14 Home mainframes

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 13:24:24 GMT
Charles Richmond writes:
Back in the "old days", all real programmers wore hiking boots...in case a mountain springs up in the machine room.

that was the stl/bldg90 machine room that had the springs ... not bld28. stl went in at the north end of coyote valley ... on a flat area just at the foot of some hills. during the raining season the machine room would flood.

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Pismronunciation

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Pismronunciation
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 13:29:53 GMT
nxk3@po.cwru.edu (Natarajan Krishnaswami) writes:
On Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:10:30 +0100, Joachim Pense wrote: No, QUEL was an developed independently from SQL at Berkeley (See e.g. Date's book on Databases). The Berkeley based DBMSs INGRES and POSTGRES first ran with QUEL, and later adopted SQL; so for users of these systems, SQL looks like a successor of QUEL.

AIUI, the name SEQUEL was a mild jab at the Ingres folks by the System R folks. Structured English QUEry Language. (The vowels were dropped to avoid a trademark lawsuit, so "English" was dropped from the expansion: acronym/backronym feedback!)

An entertaining read:
http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/DEC/SRC/technical-notes/SRC-1997-018-html/


slightly related:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#44 SQL wildcard origins?

i think there was also some competition for TLA with QBE (query by example)

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Pismronunciation

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Pismronunciation
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 22:20:07 GMT
cbh@ieya.co.REMOVE_THIS.uk (Chris Hedley) writes:
Now there's something you don't hear about very often. I've seen the odd glancing reference to it on AFC over the years, but I get the impression it's not something that anyone's dealt with much. I first read about it in a computing magazine 20-odd years ago when I was a spotty youth, and haven't picked up (groan) much about it since...

i think it was one of the few things that they came up with that the PC/RT VRM was used for.

when the 801 displaywriter follow-on got killed ... and the decision was made to remap the hardware to the technical workstation market with a unix port ... the group that had done the pc/ix port was hired to do a similar one for the pc/rt. however, instead of just doing a unix port ... they had an idea to use all the pl.8 displaywriter programmers to develop a machine abstraction layer written in pl.8 for the unix port to be done to. this supposedly would insulate the unix port from the low level characteristics of the romp ... and greatly speed up the port (in hindsight ... the port took significantly longer than if it had been to the bare metal ... and it created an environment where all the pc/rt device drivers were non-standard and duplicated ... first a somewhat unix looking device driver built to the vrm interface ... and then a vrm device driver).

in any case, pick was one of the few other things that actually ran on the vrm layer ... and you could run pick concurrently with unix (aka the vrm was a psuedo virtual machine capability).

past PICK/VRM reference:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#29 windows XP and HAL: The CP/M way still works in 2002

misc. pick stuff from search engine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pick_Operating_System
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_programming_language
http://www.jes.com/picklist.html

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: So I tried this //vm.marist.edu stuff on a slow Sat. night,
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 12:46:32 GMT
Charles Richmond writes:
Actually, I was referring to a miraculous occurance...that a mountain would suddenly just rise up from the computer room floor. I had no intention of invoking water of any sort...

mountains springing up .. from long ago and far away ... the ever popular "real programmers don't write specs".
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#39 Why Use *-* ?

and then the longer "real programmers don't eat quiche" (along with "real software engineers don't read dumps")
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#31 High Level Language Systems was Re: computer books/authors (Re: FA:

i was wearing boots as solution to the pretty deep mud that could occur walking to work .. bldg. 28, before they built the new facility up on the hill. I never walked to work at the new building ... although there was some mornings & weekends that i would run up to the front entrance and back home (about 7 miles round trip ... but it was that long steep hill that would get me).

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 19:05:20 GMT
cross-posted from somewhere

xxxx on 12/01/2002 12:51 pm wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/01/fashion/01NOTI.html?tntemail0=&pagewanted=print&position=bottom

The New York Times
December 1, 2002
They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells
By KATHERINE ROSMAN

For three hours, Lincoln Ornston sat at his computer typing, deleting, rephrasing and searching for the words and tone befitting the occasion. After practicing law for nearly four years at O'Sullivan LLP, a Manhattan firm, Mr. Ornston understood the necessity of precise language.

When he had completed the document, which he had written as a mock press release, he e-mailed it to about 140 colleagues:

NEW YORK, NY (BUSINESS WIRE) May 31, 2002 - O'Sullivan LLP (the "Firm") today announced the departure of Lincoln Ornston ("Shine" or "Uncle Junior"), the baldest, baddest associate to ever roam the halls of the vaunted NYC venture capital powerhouse.

The memo continued for a page and a half in this vein, referring to two partners by name as "tormentors," gently digging at law firm culture and quoting a Dickens character: "the law is a ass [sic], a idiot."


... snip ...

One of the first of this genre was Jim Gray's Mipenvy memo/email at the time he departed SJR for Tandem.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030225095949/http://www.212.net/business/jargonm.htm

[MIP envy]
n. The term, coined by Jim Gray in 1980, that began the Tandem Memos (q.v.). MIP envy is the coveting of other's facilities - not just the CPU power available to them, but also the languages, editors, debuggers, mail systems and networks. MIP envy is a term every programmer will understand, being another expression of the proverb The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.


somewhat related:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#5 New IBM history book out
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#6 New IBM history book out
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#7 New IBM history book out
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#31 Title Inflation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#39 Vnet : Unbelievable

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:12:46 GMT
jmfbahciv writes:
I've never heard of the term "MIP envy". I'm not sure I suffered from it. Perhaps that [not suffering] was a side effect of being in the Monitor group?

i think not too long after i went to cambridge ... somebody asked me if it was really necessary that i use as much processing as the whole rest of the organization.

later, one of the benefits of rewriting the i/o supervisor for the disk engineering labs was that a lot of processing power became available; even with a dozen test cells operating concurrently the machines were still close to zero percent cpu utilization (which they found better than being able to only operate a single test cell at the time at near zero percent cpu utilization).

specific application (the thin-film head air bearing simulation program):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#39 195 was: Computer Typesetting Was: Movies with source code
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#30 Weird
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#63 Help me find pics of a UNIVAC please

another application ... running 4341 tests for the 4341 engineers:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#1 360/370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#0 Is a VAX a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#37 IBM was: CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?

general postings about activity for disk engineering (& product test) labs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: They Got Mail: Not-So-Fond Farewells
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 15:14:58 GMT
also note the '81 survey referenced in the following posting
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#61 MVS History (all parts)

was done in large part because of the mipenvy email

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

(old) list of (old) books

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: (old) list of (old) books
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 13:43:05 GMT
(old) List of IBM and Early Computer History Books

--  The IBM World by Nancy Foy (HD9999 F796) U.K. Title: The Sun Never
Sets on IBM by Nancy Foy (HD9999 F796)
--  The Lengthing Shadows (HD9999 B425) by Thomas and Marva Belden,
Little, Brown, 1962
--  THINK (HD9999 R691) by William Rogers, Stein & Day, 1969
--  The IBM Watson Lab at Columbia Unversity (HD9999 B838) by Jean
Brennan
--  "As a Man Thinks" by T.J. Watson
--  Men-Minutes-Money by T.J. Watson
--  A Business and It's Beliefs (HD9999 W337) by T.J. Watson
--  Faster, Faster (HD9999 B425) by W.J. Eckert and Rebecca Jones
--  The Computer Establishment, by Katharine Fishman, Harper & Row,
1981
--  IBM Colossus in Transition by Robert Sobel, Times Book Company,
Truman Talley Book, 1981
--  IBM 701 Thirtieth Anniversary by Cuthbert Hurd, Editor, Annuals of
the History of Computing AFIPS, Vol 5 No 2 Apr '83
--  Herman Hollerith: Forgotten Giant of Information Processing by
Geoffrey D. Austrian, Columbia University Press, 1982
--  Big Blue, IBM's Use and Abuse of Power by Richard Thomas
DaLamarter, Dodd Mead, New York, 1986
--  IBM's Early Computers by Charles Bashe, Lyle Johnson, John Palmer,
Emerson Pugh, MIT Press, Cambridge, Mass, 1986
--  Planning a Computer System (Project Stretch) Edited by Werner
Buchholz, McGraw-Hill, New York, 1962
--  IBM San Jose: A Quarter Century of Innovation By David W. Kean,
IBM San Jose, 1977
--  IBM Disk Storage Technology By IBM San Jose (GA26-1665), 1980
--  A Computer Perspective (QA76 E12) by Charles and Ray Eames, Harvard
University Press, 1973
--  The Computer from Pascal to Von Neumann (QA76 G625) by Herman
Goldstine, Princeton Press, Princeton N.J., 1972
--  From ENIAC to UNIVAC: An Appraisal of the Eckert-Mauchly Computers
by Helen Stern, Digital Press, Bedford, Mass., 1981
--  From Dits to Bits: A Personal History of the Electronic Computers
by Herman Lukoff, Robotics Press, Portland, Ore., 1979
--  The Origins of Digital Computers, 2nd Edition, by Brian Randell,
ed., Springer-Verlag, New York, 1975
--  Survey of Programming Languages by Jean Sammet
--  Electronis Computers: An Historical Survey by Prof. Saul Rosen, ACM
Computing Surveys, March, 1969
--  Bit by Bit, An illustrated History of Computers by Stan Augarten,
Ticknor & Fields, 1984
--  The Computer Comes of Age by Rene Moreau, MIT Press, 1984
--  Project Whirlwind by Kent Redmond, Digital Press, Bedford, Mass,
1980
--  The Chip by T. R. Reid, Simon & Schuster, Inc, 1985
--  Memoirs of a Computer Pioneer by Maurice V. Wilkes, MIT Press,
Cambridge, Mass, 1985
--  Computer Storage Systems and Technology by Richard Matlock, John
Wiley & Sons, New York, 1977
--  The Making of a Profession: A Century of Electrical Engineering in
America by A. Michal McMahan, IEEE Press, Piscataway, NJ, 1985

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Updated merged security glossary with glossary from NIST 800-37

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Updated merged security glossary with glossary from NIST 800-37
Newsgroups: comp.security.misc,alt.computer.security
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 19:11:56 GMT
I've updated my merged security glossary with glossary from NIST 800-37
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/secure.htm

see
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/index.html#glosnote
for more information

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/

Newsgroup cliques?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Newsgroup cliques?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:02:24 GMT
Brian Inglis writes:
BUNCH + Xerox + GE according to Doug Jones' web site.

one of the first half dozen or so (university) sales situations that i got called into (after going to cambridge) involved 370/145 against a sigma/7.

minor past refs of sigma/7 (originally sds and then xds):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#34 Processor Modes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#53 Bettman Archive in Trouble

random result from search engine:
http://www.andrews.edu/~calkins/profess/SDSigma7.htm

from above:
INTRODUCTION
Snow White, the Seven Dwarfs, and SDS

Snow White (IBM) and the seven dwarfs (RCA, Univac, GE, Honeywell, CDC, Burroughs, and NCR) had all emerged in the computer industry before SDS was formed in 1961. (DEC was formed in 1959 just prior to SDS.) SDS had about 1% of the total computer market when it was acquired by Xerox in 1969 to become XDS.

If anyone wanted to advance XDS to dwarf status when first GE [1970] and later RCA [1971] withdrew from the computer industry nobody said so. The references after those withdrawals were rather "and then there were six," and later, "and then there were five."

Xerox withdrew from the mainframe computer industry on July 21, 1975 -- never quite achieving dwarfdom.


... snip ...

and of course melinda's virtual machine history has a lot of stuff of early virtual memory in the area of 545 tech. sq. and multics deciding on ge over ibm ... and various results.
http://www.leeandmelindavarian.com/Melinda/

both multics and science center were in 545 tech. science center had the cp/67 & cms stuff and spawned vm/370 group. it also had goldfarb, et al that did gml which spawned sgml, html, xml, etc. also had the work on the internal network which also spawned bitnet and earn.

boston programming center was also in 545 tech sq ... with people like nat rochester and jean sammet. when bpc was shutdown the people were absorbed into either the development group (which had split off from science center ... and eventually moved out to the old sbc bldg. in burlington mall) or the science center.

random mentions of multics &/or ge645
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#25 MTS & LLMPS?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#26 MTS & LLMPS?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#00 old mainframes & text processing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#7 Who built the Internet? (was: Linux/AXP.. Reliable?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#12 OSes commerical, history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#22 Pre S/360 IBM Operating Systems?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#26 IA64 Self Virtualizable?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#14 S/360 operating systems geneaology
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#47 Multics and the PC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#52 Multics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#39 Internet and/or ARPANET?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#53 Internet and/or ARPANET?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#237 I can't believe this newsgroup still exists
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#1 Computer of the century
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#81 Ux's good points.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#54 Multics dual-page-size scheme
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#55 Multics dual-page-size scheme
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#77 write rings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#27 The first "internet" companies?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#30 internal corporate network, misc.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#30 Secure Operating Systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#37 S/360 development burnout?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#0 What good and old text formatter are there ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#53 360 Architecture, Multics, ... was (Re: X86 ultimate CISC? No.)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#54 360 Architecture, Multics, ... was (Re: X86 ultimate CISC? No.)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#60 360 Architecture, Multics, ... was (Re: X86 ultimate CISC? No.)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#68 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#78 TSS ancient history, was X86 ultimate CISC? designs)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#4 virtualizable 360, was TSS ancient history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#77 Pentium 4 Prefetch engine?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#5 SIMTICS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#7 Blame it all on Microsoft
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#10 SIMTICS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#19 SIMTICS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#69 line length (was Re: Babble from "JD" <dyson@jdyson.com>)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#78 HMC . . . does anyone out there like it ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#52 Compaq kills Alpha
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#9 VM: checking some myths.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#34 D
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#46 Whom Do Programmers Admire Now???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#55 Computer security: The Future
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#18 I hate Compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#9 HP-UX will not be ported to Alpha (no surprise)exit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#43 Why is UNIX semi-immune to viral infection?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#60 Defrag in linux? - Newbie question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#24 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#59 Windows XP on quad DPS 8/70M?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#12 Multics Nostalgia
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#15 departmental servers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#40 info
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#47 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#49 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#53 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#55 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#1 More newbie stop the war here!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#2 Author seeks help - net in 1981
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#10 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#43 hollow files in unix filesystems?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#46 ... the need for a Museum of Computer Software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#62 TOPS-10 logins (Was Re: HP-2000F - want to know more about it)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#64 ... the need for a Museum of Computer Software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#8 TOPS-10 logins (Was Re: HP-2000F - want to know more about it)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#39 VAX, M68K complex instructions (was Re: Did Intel Bite Off More Than It Can Chew?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#5 IBM Mainframe at home
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#15 RFC Online Project
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#46 IBM Mainframe at home
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#47 Multics_Security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#36 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#49 Blade architectures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#55 Multics hardware (was Re: "Soul of a New Machine" Computer?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#61 GE 625/635 Reference + Smart Hardware
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#81 Multics reference in Letter to Editor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#30 Multics hardware (was Re: "Soul of a New Machine" Computer?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#43 IBM doing anything for 50th Anniv?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#50 crossreferenced program code listings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#56 history of CMS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#5 DCAS [Was: Re: 'atomic' memops?]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#11 CDC6600 - just how powerful a machine was it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#62 subjective Q. - what's the most secure OS?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#42 Thirty Years Later: Lessons from the Multics Security Evaluation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#44 Thirty Years Later: Lessons from the Multics Security Evaluation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#49 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#62 Itanium2 performance data from SGI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#58 The next big things that weren't
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#61 The next big things that weren't
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#76 Whatever happened to C2 "Orange Book" Windows security?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#0 additional pictures of the 6180
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#27 why does wait state exist?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#28 why does wait state exist?

--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | lynn@garlic.com - http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/




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