List of Archived Posts

2007 Newsgroup Postings (06/22 - 08/11)

The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
One OS for everybody
Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
the Depression WWII
John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
What if there were two Internets?
nouns and adjectives
John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
The top 10 dead (or dying) computer skills
Operating systems are old and busted
The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
What if there were two Internets?
What if phone company had developed Internet?
What if phone company had developed Internet?
What if phone company had developed Internet?
The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
What if phone company had developed Internet?
What if phone company had developed Internet?
What if phone company had developed Internet?
Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
VM system kept NYSE running
What if phone company had developed Internet?
Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Programmable TLB management?
How would a relational operating system look like?
IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware
What I miss in my OS
What I miss in my OS
IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware
IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware
How to flush data most efficiently from memory to disk when db checkpoint?
FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance
Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Windows: Monitor or CUSP?
Windows: Monitor or CUSP?
Windows Monitor or CUSP?
the Depression WWII
Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Windows Monitor or CUSP?
WindowsMonitor or CUSP?
Windows Monitor or CUSP?
VLIW pre-history
WindowsMonitor or CUSP?
Windows Monitor or CUSP? [was ReJohn W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies]
Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Windows Monitor or CUSP? [was ReJohn W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies]
Windows Monitor or CUSP?
computerworld 40 yr articles
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE
Computer Clocks
IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
UK computer history gets new home
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
least structured statement in a computer language. And the winner
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
women as computer operators in the 1960s
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Inside the High-Tech Hunt for a Missing Silicon Valley Legend
instructions for computers
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
PSI MIPS
PSI MIPS
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
PSI MIPS
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
sysprog demand
mainframe developer = permanent position - Dublin Ireland
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
PCI Compliance - Encryption of all non-console administrative access
The Unexpected Fact about the First Computer Programmer
Why is not AIX ported to z/Series?
VLIW pre-history
VLIW pre-history
VLIW pre-history
Combining VM list threads
vm 35th b'day at share in san diego next week
How old are you?
PCI Compliance - Encryption of all non-console administrative access
The Unexpected Fact about the First Computer Programmer
some questions about System z PR/SM
Loads Weighing Heavily on Roads
News report: Federal court rules that Novell still owns UNIX

The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:03:05 -0600
Frank McCoy <mccoyf@millcomm.com> writes:
BULL. There was far more software available on CP/M at the time than IBM ever provided. OTHER companies soon started supplying, once the market was there; but not when the PC came out.

No, the reason was corporate "standards" as explained above.



http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#50 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

and/or corporate marketing ... majority of the people in the period ... didn't understand what personal computing and/or PC software actually met ... marketing such abstractions would have little meaning (sufficient understanding of how they might actually benefit). 3270 terminals to the mainframe did have some meaning ... and terminal emulation, effectively same price, same footprint ... with the addition of something more than 3270 terminal emulation ... even if the vast majority of people had no idea what that actually added value really met (but it wasn't a risk/justification issue ... the cost/justification was covered by its play as added value 3270 terminal replacement).

it didn't have to be a "standard" as something officially proclaimed ... although it could be an implicit standard ... in that terminal emulation was something that the vast majority of the people could relate to and believe they could understand.

this previous post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#63 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

with this reference on personal computer market share, 1975-2004:
http://www.wowdailynews.com/pegasus/total_share.html
at wayback machine
http://web.archive.org/web/20070528014237/http://www.wowdailynews.com:80/pegasus/total_share.html

shows TRS-80 with the earliest annual volumes of few hundred thousand ... then later atari 400/800, and eventually the apple II in the 80s. the closest to the pc in volumes was the commodore 64 in 83/84 with millions ... but they weren't selling into the terminal emulation market ... and that really shifted by 85/86 (commodore 64 stayed in there with 2.5m/annum in 84, 85, & 86 ... while the pc+clones continued to significantly increase).

Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:34:00 -0600
Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
2.6 came out in 2005 after a 5-year wait, and delivered on promise. Linux 2.6 was just such a painful redesign, and IBM has contributed a lot to that code. There are still corners in the code that only do SMP moderatly well, but they are mostly backwards-compatible areas.

and at least some of that is purported to have been stuff from sequent (dynix and numa-q), i.e. after ibm bought sequent.

back before numa-q ... when sequent was running both dynix and nt on their i86 (32-way) SMPs ... they had claimed that much of the smp scaleup in NT had come from work they had done ... aka previous posts with some number of wiki & other refs:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#13 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

random other recent posts mentioning sequent &/or numa-q
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#8 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#27 nouns and adjectives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#72 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

and for other topic drift, old posts mentioning that steve chen shows up as sequent's CTO in the 90s (we had done a little consulting for him at sequent)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#42 Looking for Software/Documentation for an Opus 32032 Card
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#57 Another light on the map going out
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#9 Is no one reading the article?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#38 Wanted: info on old Unisys boxen

One OS for everybody

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: One OS for everybody ....
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:56:55 -0600
jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) writes:
I just wish I knew about modular exponentiation back when I was a wee lad and saw that movie for the first time. Who knows, it might have inspired me to invent RSA before anyone else...

a few old emails on subject of crypto and/or public key from 70s & 80s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#crypto

and couple more recent posts about working on a really inexpensive, really fancy crypto hardware (in the mid-80s)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#36 The very first text editor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#45 waiting for acknowledgements

Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:57:23 -0600
Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
I hold dimetrically opposite views of the 80s. That was when all the dispersed efforts came together. *n*x came of age, took up a lot of the practices from other fields, and became a workhorse. RISC came out of the closet. RAID was invented. Networking came to it's own. The Open Source movement got going. The monopoly power of the vendors was crushed, and the customer came in charge. Software was unbundled from hardware.

note that the 23jun69 unbundling announcement met that software was charged separately from the hardware. prior to that the software had been free.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle

this was result of various litigation. however, they did make the case that kernel software was necessary for the hardware operation ... and therefor should still be free. later, the rise of the processor clones gave them reason to rethink the decision. I was getting ready to (re)release the resource manager (after much of it having been dropped in the morph from cp67 and vm370) ... and it was selected to be the guinea pig for starting to charge for kernel software.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#wsclock

in effect, prior to the litigation and the unbundling announcement, software was free and (much of it,) open source. an example was the large share/waterloo (, univerisity of) software libraries for cp67, vm370, cms, etc ... including source updates/enhancements (i.e. cp67, vm370, cms, etc not only was shipped as source ... but the monthly updates/fixes were also shipped as source). Standard procedure at many customers was to build/generate system from the source.

first patent for disk array, san jose plant site, '78:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#4 Mainframers: Take back the light (spotlight, that is)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#29 cheaper low quality drives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#47 "25th Anniversary of the Personal Computer"

later IBM "co-sponsored research at UCB" that led to the raid level definitions in '87 ... but i believe that first deployed use was by as/400.

the Depression WWII

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: the Depression WWII
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:47:31 -0600
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
Ugh when you put it that way it's a wonder anything works given that the bureaucracies full of middle managers seem to turn up in every system.

or boyd's scenario about doing something or taking credit for doing something ... from dedication of Boyd Hall at USAF weapons school:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#20 MS to world: Stop sending money, we have enough - was Re: Most ... can't run Vista
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#74 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#61 Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#77 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#3 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#5 IBM Unionization

John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 07:52:49 -0600
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
The defense against these is simple - ignore them and never connect to a bank except via SSL to a known starting point - note that it is important to start in SSL so that no transparent proxy can intervene.

recent thread/post you may find of interest:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#29 A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#30 A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol

on following subject

A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/06/22/25OPsecadvise_1.html

from above:
Implementing -- and requiring -- stronger authentication and cryptography standards is the next step toward a new Internet

... snip ...

i.e. a new internet is required ... along with new authentication and crypto standards

Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 08:10:55 -0600
Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
Also, log structured file systems, the jfs and contributions to efs3, and huge improvements to the irq and dma routing; including some work in processor affinities.

metadata logging is slightly different from log structured file systems.

one of the problems with log structured file systems is the periodic "garbage collection" done to consolidate files, making their records sequential and contiguous. for other drift ... during work on HA/CMP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

we hired one of the people responsible for doing the BSD log structured filesystem implementation to consult on doing a "geographically distributed filesystem".

JFS was originally done by people working on 801/AIXV3. 801 early on had definition/implementation for "database memory" ... i.e. hardware could keep track of fine-grain changes (size on the order of cache-lines). Just load up data into memory mapped infrastructure ... provide the COMMIT boundaries ... and eliminate needing to sprinkle "log" calls thruout the code. At commit, just run thru the changed memory indications ... collecting data-lines needing logging.

There had been various kinds of conflict between the unix development group in palo alto and the group in austin. The palo alto group took JFS and ported it to non-801 platforms ... having to retrofit the logging calls to the software (since they lacked database memory hardware). It turns out that the version with explicit logging calls ran faster than the original implementation (even on the same 801 hardware platform) ... the commit time scanning of memory for changes tended to be higher overhead than the explicit log calls.

Then the remaining justification for database memory is the implementation simplification ... somewhat akin to some of the pushes for parallel programming (except parallel programming is frequently explicitly about performance; not trying to trade-off performance against simplicity).

some of the database memory stuff can be found under the heading of transactional memory ... some posts mentioning transactional memory:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#27 transactional memory question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#33 Power5 and Cell, new issue of IBM Journal of R&D
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#44 Why so little parallelism?

misc. past posts mentioning log structured filesystems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#28 Log Structured filesystems -- think twice
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#29 Log Structured filesystems -- think twice
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#24 Hard disks, one year ago today
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#59 JFSes: are they really needed?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#20 index searching
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#36 Do any architectures use instruction count instead of timer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003b.html#69 Disk drives as commodities. Was Re: Yamhill
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#22 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#41 25% Pageds utilization on 3390-09?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#36 Code density and performance?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#3 virtual memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#10 The Chant of the Trolloc Hordes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#30 V2X2 vs. Shark (SnapShot v. FlashCopy)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#27 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

some past posts mentioning database memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#33 Does it support "Journaling"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#34 Does it support "Journaling"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#49 Filesystems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#54 Filesystems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#20 Why? (Was: US Military Dead during Iraq War
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#32 Why? (Was: US Military Dead during Iraq War
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#26 Cache-Size vs Performance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#36 Multiple mappings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#27 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

What if there were two Internets?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What if there were two Internets?
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.folklore.computers,alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 08:19:57 -0600
"Dave Wade" <g8mqw@yahoo.com> writes:
Certainly in Europe we had two "internets" that reflect the above. We had the public X.25 network including the JANET X.25 academic network, which many thought of as the BETA version. After all it had end-to-end flow control, guaranteed packet delivery, quality of service that was implemented from day. On top of that we had software that conformed to formal standards, and which was fully tested....

The big problem with it was that it was controlled by the PTTs whose charging model was to wring every cent they could out of it. So there were call costs to connect, plus a connection time on the "PAD", and on top of that a charge per packet.

I know there wasn't any WEB but there was e-mail, file transfer, and job transfer.

But its now long gone....

Pity there aren't copies of the standards on the BITSAVERS web sites.....


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#71 What if there were two Internets?

EARN was the european version of BITNET ... misc. past posts about BITNET &/or EARN
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#bitnet

a couple old emails with the person charged with setting up EARN:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#email840320
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#email850607

nouns and adjectives

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: nouns and adjectives
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:37:32 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
Nobody seems to be getting this. Lynn sees a little bit of the problem but not the work, bit and human flows all together...I think.

actually we've had to do the whole thing several times ... the issue is actually getting them all addressed/implemented in an end-to-end manner. the whole set of postings about "naked" transactions is somewhat related to some of the end-to-end issues
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payment

and recent references to how SSL is now actually operating (from an end-to-end human perspective) ... as opposed to how it was originally designed to operation (again from human perspective).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#5 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#29 A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#30 A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol

changing existing infrastructure is hard. when we were doing our (internal) backbone, we were not allowed to bid on nsfnet backbone ... even tho there was an nsf audit that said what we had already running was at least five yrs ahead of all (nsfnet rfp) bids to build something new ... now some of the stuff looks like it will show up in "internet2" ... which makes it 20+ yrs ... not five.

another scenario is all the AADS work in the 90s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads

part of it includes reducing the cost of a widely deployed, high integrity, hardware token authentication infrastructure by potentially four orders of magnitude (two orders of magnitude in the per token cost and possibly another two orders of magnitude in the number of such tokens that would be required). even a single order of magnitude change in costs is likely to face strong opposition by somebody. lots of infrastructures become successful because there is somebody with strong financial motivation pushing them. an infrastructure that purely saves everybody oodles of money may have lots of problems because it would lack individuals with strong financial motivation to see it succeed, and potentially also facing strong opposition from those that had interests in maintaining the existing status quo.

another example, somewhat alluded to in recent threads ... is translating NSFNET backbone infrastructure to commercial environment. Lots of the telco community had strong interest in having the NSFNET infrastructure succeed as a technology incubator (for new generation of bandwidth hungry applications). However, at the same time, the internetworking model applied to traditional, commercial telco business would have severe disruption on their traditional revenue streams. this would create enormous ambivalence in those businesses ... frequently, strongly backing NSFNET as a "research only" incubator environment ... and at the same time, strongly opposing having the internetworking model break-out into the commercial world).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#71 What if there were two Internets?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#7 What if there were two Internets?

we've periodically have advised people (that have called us in to consult), to be careful of what you ask for. in a case where we were called in by one of the large airline res systems to look at the "ten impossible things" they couldn't do. After a week or two study ... we went away for two months and then came back with a complete replacement implementation, that would do all of their "ten impossible things" (as well as all the stuff they were currently doing). This was met with quite a bit of dismay and anguish. One way of describing the core problem was that they had something like 800 people involved in doing various kinds of tasks .. and it would be necessary to automate all those tasks in order to successfully address the "ten impossible things". Any elimination of 800 positions would propagate up the whole organization chain ... impacting the "importance" (and presumably compensation) of the upper level executives. Eventually, they would pretend like the whole sequence had never occured.

John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:57:35 -0600
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
SSL is strong encryption and *very* hard to break.

From a FAQ:

Q: How secure is the encryption used by SSL? A: It would take significantly longer than the age of the universe to crack a 128-bit key.

Of course if someone finds a way to do it other than brute forcing all 2^128 possible keys then things get a little sticky.

Equally of course if you put a large network (say every Windows machine you can work into) onto the job it would be quicker, you might even finish before the sun goes out.


SSL was supposed to be two things:

1) is the webserver that you think you are talking to, actually the webserver that you are talking to (aka authentication)

2) encryption to hide transmitted information

...

previous reference, I point out that because of certain assumptions about human behavior interacting with browsers ... which are no longer valid assumptions (or at least rarely so) ... and therefor can be leveraged by attackers:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#27 nouns and ajectives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#5 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

to defeat assumptions about whether the user is talking to the webserver that they think they are talking to.

one of the major world-wide SSL uses for information "hiding" is in electronic-commerce for hiding credit card numbers. the issue is that information from previous/existing transactions can relatively trivially used by crooks in fraudulent financial transactions (primarily because of relatively weak authentication in other parts of the infrastructure).

the observation was that the majority of data-breach and security-breach compromises in this area, hasn't been from evesdropping on internet (even before ssl) but from all sorts of compromises at the end-points ... lots and lots of mechanisms used by crooks to harvest such information
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#harvest

little, if any, addressed by SSL internet transmitted information hiding.

we had been called in by small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions (i.e. electronic commerce) on their servers, and they had this technology they called SSL that they wanted to use.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

after doing that, we got involved in the x9a10 financial working group, that in the mid-90s had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for all retail payments.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959

this involved a detailed, end-to-end study of threats and vulnerabilities ... including, but not limited to transmission of payment transactions over the internet. the result was using digital signatures to effectively armor every x9.59 transaction (strong authencation as well as strong integrity) and a business rule that information from x9.59 transactions could not be used in non-x9.59 transactions.

X9.59 financial standard eliminated evesdropping, havesting, skimming, data breaches, and other kinds of exploits related to crooks using gathered information for being able to generate fraudulent transactions (not just limited to transactions transmitted over the internet). As a result, X9.59 also eliminated the need for the prevailing use of SSL in the world today (hiding information that would be useful to crooks).

this is also somewhat discussed in the naked payment/transaction collection of posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments

The top 10 dead (or dying) computer skills

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The top 10 dead (or dying) computer skills
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:28:09 -0600
John Ahlstrom <AhlstromJK@comcast.net> writes:
As a former boss always said:

Demo costs 1 unit Usable by others 10 units stand alone product 100 units Integrated into a system 1000 units

Course that was a long time ago.

I wonder what the relative figures are now.


we've used the number of 4-10 times to take a thuroughly checked-out and debugged application and turn it into a "service".

in the case of the payment gateway ... for the stuff that has since come to be called "electronic commerce" ... it was around 10 times
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

a lot of the effort isn't directly code ... but detailed understanding of how things might fail ... and to be able to recover (and/or at least diagnose) such failures. a somewhat related comment about ports of UNIX to mainframe typically ran under virtual machine hypervisor ... since the effort to add 370 mainframe EREP support to unix was several times larger than simply porting UNIX to the mainframe (running in virtual machine hypervisor, UNIX could take advantage of EREP provided by the hypervisor).

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#69 Operating systems are old and busted

in the payment gateway scenario ... we defined a matrix of about 40 failure scenarios and 5-6 states that might happen involving the webserver, the internet, and/or the payment gateway ... and had to show for every possible case, the situation could be automatically recovered from and/or failing component identified and diagnosed with a few minutes.

some of this was philosophical. the basic internet payment process takes the messages defined for (circuit-based) operation between point-of-sale terminal and payment infrastructure. These messages defined for circuit-based operation were then just retargted to a internet, packet-based environment. Now, there are some number of implicit operational consideratiions that are part of a circuit-based infrastructure that are lost in migrating to packet-based operation. So some part of what we had to do was basically compensating processes to make up the difference between circuit-based operation and packet-based operation ... including the writing of a problem diagnosing manual. In the telco, circuit-based world, a call is made to the telco provider and all sort of magic automatically happens ... especially when there is a service-level agreement in place (something that has been slow coming to the internet world ... and still won't really address full end-to-end operation ... especially crossing several different service providers).

by comparison, in that time-frame there was a situation ... where a (telco) central exchange mangled some 1-800 point-of-sale terminal calls for a period of 18 minutes ... which was treated as an enormously severe problem at the highest executive levels.

another related scenario ... were various things ... in addition to use of PREPARE comand, automated operator (enabled with AUTOLOG command), and automatic reboot/restart .... enabling "lights out", unattended operation for off-shift timesharing use ... recent post that also touched on this subject:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#68 Operating systems are old and busted
other posts about operating online, commercial timesharing service
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare

i've since claimed that a lot of the operation of a lot of the large scale web-based services ... have a lot of the "human" free requirements that old-style mainframe operations had to evolve. This may be represented more of a philosophical challenge to many of the commingly used platforms for web services. A lot of these platforms evolved from an "interactive" environment ... where the operation of the machine was tied to interactions with some person. Many of the "batch" platforms evolved methodologies over periods of several decades ... assuming that the person responsible for the application wasn't present ... and therefor automated processes were needed for nearly all contingencies. In that sense, frequently the person responsible for a webserver operation may not be always available during periods that the webserver is operating.

misc. past posts mentioning the 4-10 times rule-of-thumb:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#75 Test and Set (TS) vs Compare and Swap (CS)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#91 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#93 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#11 Wanted: the SOUNDS of classic computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#62 IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#15 A Dark Day
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#37 The BASIC Variations
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#8 Mars Rover Not Responding
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#48 Automating secure transactions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#20 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004l.html#49 "Perfect" or "Provable" security both crypto and non-crypto?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#23 Systems software versus applications software definitions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#63 Systems software versus applications software definitions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#64 Systems software versus applications software definitions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005b.html#40 [Lit.] Buffer overruns
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#42 Development as Configuration
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#26 Data communications over telegraph circuits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#20 The System/360 Model 20 Wasn't As Bad As All That
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#37 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#51 IBM to the PCM market(the sky is falling!!!the sky is falling!!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#78 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

Operating systems are old and busted

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Operating systems are old and busted
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:49:43 -0600
another article on the same theme:

Leopard and Vista: Last Gasp of the Big OS?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/133276

from above:
Twenty years from now a new generation of computer users will look back on the operating systems of today with the same bemused smile we look back at the cars of the late 1950s and early 60s. They had huge fins, were the size of a small yacht and burned up just about as much gas.

... snip ...

a few similar articles over the past yr:

Windows Vista: The last Of Microsoft's Supersized Operating Systems?
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/01/xsigo_io_virtua.html
Windows Vista the last of its kind
http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?NewsID=6718
Vista: The Last Microsoft Operating System that will Matter
http://www.realtime-websecurity.com/articles_and_analysis/2007/01/vista_the_last_microsoft_opera.html
Vista is the last of the dinosaurs
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36155

other recent posts in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#64 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#66 Off Topic But Concept should be Known To All
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#67 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#68 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#69 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#73 Operating systems are old and busted

The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:06:47 -0600
timcaffrey@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) writes:
While I don't disagree about the Z-100 being a superior machine (still have one and parts for another). It wasn't introduced until March 1982, and it is very difficult to get one. I got my Z-100H in Dec. 83.

the issue wasn't whether or not the Z-100 was a superior machine ... especially for consumer market place; the issue was where was critical market and what were customers basing their buying decision on.

looking at purely (home) personal computing ... that would make Z-100 competing with trs-80 and commodore 64 ... which had the largest volumes in the (home) personal computing market. ... i.e. previous posts with reference to volumes by yr
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#63 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#0 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

big issue for ibm/pc was that its volumes selling into business market ... it wasn't heavily competing with volumes in the purely home personal computing market.

the issue has been raised repeatedly that nobody got fired for buying IBM (in the business market). the other view point is that a lot of the people making buying decision (in the business market) wouldn't have technical expertise to make a distinction between two different "personal computers" ... aka at the time, the majority of the business people (making buying decision) wouldn't be able differentiate between the ibm/pc and say the Z-100 ... so buying decision is likely to be heavily influenced by lots of other factors; (business) brand recognition, whether they had seen sales pitch, etc (some of this is analogous to whether people buy brand names or generic in grocery stores), how exactly compatible they were (and any attempt to pitch significant differentiating features would, in turn undermine the compatibility theme).

the clone business ... dating back to mainframe clone controllers in the 60s and mainframe clone processors in the 70s ... have tended to be based on being essentially identical and selling on price ... mostly able to get some small percentage of the market based purely on price. Big part of the issue in selling into the business market, was that there were only very small percentage of the decision makers that believe they had technical expertise that would enable them to make evaluation based on features. as a result, majority of clone marketing was based (effectively) on being identical and selling on price alone (with other differentiating features having little meaning to the majority of the buyers).

So there might be some markets where differentiating features in something like Z-100 would have meaning to perspective buyers ... say putting them in competition with commodore 64 sales. In the (business) ibm mainframe terminal emulation market segment ... positioning would primarily be as a clone ... identical and selling purely on price (the brand name vis-a-vis generic scenario). Then a major issue is compatibility ... and thru the ages, some number of clones failed compatibility ... and was leveraged as marketing countermeasure against clone purchases. To get past the small percentage of early adopters ... specific clone vendors frequently had to somehow establish critical mass install base ... effectively brand name of their own (and as demonstration of true compatibility).

This sort of market penetration scenario was seen in the mid-70s with clone (mainframe) processors ... and similar type progression could be seen in the mid-80s with clone personal computers.

lots of pervious posts mentioning terminal emulation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#emulation

other posts in this specific thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#42 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#44 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#45 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#48 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#50 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#57 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#72 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:58:29 -0600
timcaffrey@aol.com (Tim McCaffrey) writes:
Lynn do you have any figures about how many PCs were sold into the corporate market vs. the home market in the first 18 months? (pre XT, in other words). I think most people don't appreciate how much leverage the corporate world has over the PC market. Which, of course, explains why certain things sucked on the PC for such a long time (graphics, sound, plug-n-play upgrades, etc), and other things were available very quickly (networking, printer sharing, hard disks, etc).

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#12 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

other than the overall numbers referenced in the previous posts:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#63 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#0 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

I haven't yet found quotable numbers for break out of commercial vis-a-vis consumer. however, the previous references on overall market also do talk about the total number of different vendors in the (personal computing) market during the early 80s (couple hundred) ... and lots of confusion and compatibility issues ... especially with software/application life-cycle ... which was also somewhat the replay of driving factor behind 360 mainframes.

however, his is somewhat different perspective on what it took to be a successful clone in that time-frame:
http://www.cwhonors.org/search/his_4a_detail.asp?id=3875

the above comments, from compaq perspective was that they got their foothold in the clone business by driving compatability

search engine use uncovers a series of posts here which are extracts from articles in that time-frame including discussion of some of the market forces:
http://www.amigau.com/68K/dg/dg.htm
http://www.amigau.com/68K/dg/dg24.htm
http://www.amigau.com/68K/dg/dg25.htm

past post mentioning testimony in (mainframe) anti-trust litigation about industry awareness concerning market requirement for compatibility
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#33 Big black helicopters

the above also makes reference to conversation with somebody that worked with TJW-jr, saying all the litigation took all the interest out of running the company since every (business) decision had to made from the standpoint of how might the gov. react.

other past posts mentioning testimony in (mainframe) anti-trust litigation about industry awareness concerning market requirement for compatibility
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#44 bloat
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#20 1401 series emulation still running?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#231 Why couldn't others compete against IBM?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#0 Did Intel Bite Off More Than It Can Chew?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#26 looking for information on the IBM 7090 instruction set
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#43 Computer folklore - forecasting Sputnik's orbit with
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#22 System/360 40th Anniversary
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#18 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#77 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#34 IBM 8000 ???

What if there were two Internets?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What if there were two Internets?
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.folklore.computers,alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:30:17 -0600
Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> writes:
*High Speed - terminology changes over the years That blindingly fast connection was 0.0096 megabit.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#71 What if there were two Internets?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#7 What if there were two Internets?

misc past posts with references to mid-80s "high-speed" ... during period we were doing some stuff somewhat related to nsfnet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33b High Speed Data Transport (HSDT)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#69 oddly portable machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#45 IBM's Workplace OS (Was: .. Pink)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#59 SR 15,15
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#12 network history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#58 Q ALLOC PAGE vs. CP Q ALLOC vs ESAMAP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#59 Q ALLOC PAGE vs. CP Q ALLOC vs ESAMAP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005n.html#25 Data communications over telegraph circuits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005r.html#9 Intel strikes back with a parallel x86 design
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#57 IPCS Standard Print Service
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006e.html#36 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006i.html#17 blast from the past on reliable communication
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#4 Google Architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#42 Ranking of non-IBM mainframe builders?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#50 Ranking of non-IBM mainframe builders?

What if phone company had developed Internet?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet?
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:22:03 -0600
mailbox writes:
Restating my earlier query and adjusting the newsgoups line so as not to get sidetracked on the technical aspects: What if the phone company had developed the Internet? What would we be paying for access? Would e-mail be metered? Would there be spam? Would there be Google?..etc.

the folklore is that the national PTTs were substantially behind OSI ISO/ITU-T standards ... basically very traditional copper link/circuit oriented.
http://www.itu.int/net/home/index.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITU-T

at various points there were even national edicts that internetworking would be eliminated and replaced it with OSI.

also take a look at ISDN, X.25, VAN (value added networks), EDI, X.400, X.500, etc standards. Various VAN/EDI offerings, in fact, offerred metered email. However, most all of this were targeted at commercial entities (in part because the pricing structure) and saw little or no use in consumer market segment. internetworking has nearly supplanted nearly all of the (commerical) VANs that had grown up in the 70s & 80s. In that sense ... they DID develop their own online offerings ... which eventually gave way to the internet ... i.e. it wasn't "IF" ... they DID ... but of course, they weren't going to look like THE INTERNET. In that sense the telco "developed" internets lost out to THE INTERNET.

While ISO wasn't limited to PTTs, one major differentiation between IETF (and the internetworking standards) and ISO ... was that IETF requires demonstration of multiple interoperable implementations as standard progression ... while ISO can pass a standard w/o ever demonstrating that it was practical and/or even possible.

some past posts mentioning some of the issues/activities going on around OSI and ISO
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp

Even after (NSFNET backbone) broke out into commercial with CIX, peering-aggreements, etc ... various telcos continued to be involved in various parts of internetworking activity.

we had been called in to consult with a small client/server startup that wanted to do payments on their server ... and they had this technology called SSL (the result is frequently now referred to as electronic commerce).

Part of the effort was something called a payment gateway ... misc. past posts referencing payment gateway
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

they had this project called a "commerce server" ... which happened to be run by two people we had worked with in previous life ... a couple refs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#15

the implementation started off being a "mall" paradigm ... designed to be hosted by service provider ... with merchants "leasing" space/services in the "mall". there were lots of effort equated various implementation pieces with the physical mall paradirm.

there is some possibility that this whole initial effort was underwritten by one of the telcos.

this fairly quickly gave way to another implementation where each merchant could field their own electronic commerce webesrver.

part of the issue is the mall construct fundamentally provides a physical/time solution for customers (large number of merchants in a physical compact space, simplifying access for customers). one of the attributes frequently ascribed to the internet is that it eliminates physical distances (all by itself) ... aka customers can visit a large number of different merchants at distinct different webservers. the online mall possibly would have greater appeal if customers actually had to make unique circuit connections (different phone calls) to specific sites (i.e. vestiges of circuit-based orientation in contrast to packet oriented internetworking).

with world-wide internetworking "anarchy" ... there is no service provider that is responsible for establishing directory for everything available online. this free-for-all anarchy eventually allowed huge explosion in online content (which would have been extremely difficult in a more structured PTT environment) ... and gave rise to the requirements for "search engines" ... aka "what is there" and "where can it be found".

What if phone company had developed Internet?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet?
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:43:00 -0600
"William Black" <william.black@hotmail.co.uk> writes:
The Internet started as a means of passing military communications. The message was there before the medium

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#15 What if phone company had developed Internet?

the arpanet started as packet-switched network that could possibly be routed via a number of different paths. however, the implementation was still a single network with homogeneous interface provided by IMPs.

it didn't support internetworking.

somewhere along the way ... there was the realization that large complex environments were going to require "internetworking" ... implicit assumption was to provide internetworking between multiple, independent networks.

i've frequently claimed that the internal network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

was larger than the arpanet/internet (from just about the beginning until sometime mid-85) because it early on provided for a layered, gateway kind of function (which the internet finally got in the switchover from arpanet to internetworking).

the great switchover from arpanet to internetworking occured on 1jan83 ... eliminating many of the growth inhibitors that were present in the homogeneous arpanet/imp paradigm ... contributing to it be able to exceed the internal network in size.

the relative interconnect anarchy provided by the internetworking functionality was something alien to telco/PTT way of doing business ... since they had been used to directly providing all communication capability (explicit point-to-point operation for every communication).

posts in the previous thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#71 What if there were two Internets?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#7 What if there were two Internets?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#14 What if there were two Internets?

What if phone company had developed Internet?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet?
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 08:58:13 -0600
BernardZ <bernardZ@BluesystemNospam.com> writes:
Actually phones using bulletin boards were popular with computer nerds in the early 1990s.

a large part of csnet in the late 70s/early 80s used "phonenet" ... reference to "phonenet" connection ... old email describing csnet connection options (including "phonenet"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#email821022
in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#0

this was even before arpanet moved off their IMP implementation and supported internetworking.

usenet in the late 70s started with "phonenet" store&forward.

some number of the bulletin boards in the early 90s were also usenet servers (using phone calls). In the early 90s, I had a ms/dos platfrom running waffle ... but I had also done a satellite modem driver for company offering usenet feed via satellite (so they provided me with free dish and modem). dish was slightly larger than the current generation of satellite TV dishes. I also co-authored article on the driver and service for boardwatch magazine (included picture of me standing next to the dish in backyard).

should make some distinction between using phone calls for computer networking ... and using phone calls for terminal dial-in to computer (whether originating real terminal or a PC emulated terminal with something like kermit). terminal dial-in operation to computer has been around since at least 50s&60s (teletype terminals with 110 baud modems). i had gotten a home terminal with dial-in access in march of 1970 ... and had it until upgrading to PC ... with terminal emulation dialin.

some number of commercial timesharing services started cropping up in the 60s ... offering terminal dialin ... lots of collected past posts about some of the commercial timesharing services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare

an example would be vm370-based TYMSHARE ... started in the early 70s. They also developed their own private operated value-added-network that they called TYMNET. The installed POPs (point-of-presence) phone numbers in large number of cities for terminal dial-up access ... and used TYMNET to communicate between the POPs and their TYMSHARE service. They also started offering TYMNET to corporations that were looking providing remote terminal access to in-house corporate computer service. When M/D bought up TYMSHARE in the 80s, TYMNET was spun off to british telecom (moving into the states).

Something similar was emulated yrs later ... with service providers offering dial-up access into online and/or internet access (some number of service providers actually subcontract "local" modem dial-up POPs to other operations).

One of the early hardware vendors into this market was Livingston which had a combo "terminal" concentrator ... that evolved from terminal (or terminal emulation) into acomputer service, then SLIP support and then finally PPP ... with internet routing out the back-end (I had done some work helping configure Livingston boxes in the early/mid 90s). Part of what Livingston developed was an authentication protocol called RADIUS. Livingston was eventually bought up and went thru a number of transition that unlikely any vestiges survive. However RADIUS was "donated" to the IETF for internet standard and continues to survive today as the dominate form of authentication used to connect into ISP (even when it doesn't actual involve a dial-in connection).

from my internet standards index:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/rfcietff.htm

click on Term (term->RFC#) (in RFCs listed by section), then click on "RADIUS" in the Acronym fastpath:

remote authentication dial in user service (RADIUS ) see also authentication , network access server , network services 4849 4818 4679 4675 4673 4672 4671 4670 4669 4668 4590 4372 4014 3580 3579 3576 3575 3162 2882 2869 2868 2867 2866 2865 2809 2621 2620 2619 2618 2548 2139 2138 2059 2058

clicking on any RFC number brings up the RFC summary in the lower frame, clicking on the ".txt=nnn" field in a summary, retrieves the actual RFC.

other collected posts mentioning RADIUS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#radius

for other topic drift, past posts mentioning boardwatch
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000.html#38 Vanishing Posts...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#39 I'll Be! Al Gore DID Invent the Internet After All ! NOT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#66 UUCP email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005l.html#16 Newsgroups (Was Another OS/390 to z/OS 1.4 migration
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006m.html#11 An Out-of-the-Main Activity

The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:22:24 -0600
lists@ibm-main.lst (Phil Smith III) writes:
Re VAX vs. IBM: I was a central, low level member of the 4300 series. I also led the engineering side of the fight against the VAX. We never approached the installed base of the VAX machines. Never.

approach the size of the install base in number of customers or number of machines or competitive marketing approaching the customers that bought vaxes?

past post giving decade of vax install numbers sliced and diced by model, yr, domestic, non-domestic, etc:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 Computers in Science Fiction

both 43xx and vaxes saw huge uptake in the early 80s with the growth of the department market ... which was starting to move into workstations and PCs by the mid-80s. as above, the big volumes for VAXes in the mid-80s were from micro-vax ... not traditional 780 machines.

lots of vaxes were customer orders for one or a very few. vaxes had an advantage here since their installation and support required a lot less effort (something that 43xx was constantly fighting ... there were even some SHARE reports highlighting the resource requirement differences in competitive environment).

however, there were some number of large customers that ordered 43xx boxes in large lots (sometimes hundreds, even large hundreds). the resource support requirement competitive advantage (in small shops) was mitigated when amortized across a large number of boxes.

old email about specific customer ordering in hundreds (customer initially thot 20, but order was finally for 210):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#email790404
in this post also discussing other "departmental computing" issues from the period
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#15 departmental server

lots of old email discussing various aspects of 43xx ... use for clustering and/or distributed, departmental computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx

The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:42:32 -0600
lists@ibm-main.lst (Phil Smith III) writes:
Re RISC vs. 68K: Anyone who thinks the RISC chips killed the 68K is off base. They just need to check the dates. Intel killed the 68K. Motorola allied with IBM on RISC only after Intel had destroyed Motorola's market for the 68K.

801 was originally targeted (very) low-end ... ROMP chip was targeted to be used in a displaywriter follow-in ... when that project was killed, the group looked around for something to save the effort ... and hit on the unix workstation market (with the displaywriter follow-on morphing into unix workstation). lots of unix workstation market place is very numerical and power hungry ... somewhat as a result ... the followon to ROMP for that market was large, power-hungry RIOS chipset (i.e. POWER, announced in RS/6000). Paperweight on my desk (from original) has six chips, and says 150 million OPS, 60 million FLOPS, and 7 million transistors.

somerset was combined ibm, motorola, apple project to do a single chip, 801 PC-level implementation ... the executive we reported to when we were doing ha/cmp
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

went over to head up somerset. part of somerset including infusing power/pc with some of motorola's 88k (risc) technology. ROMP and RIOS were single processer implementations with no provision for multi-processor cache consistency. power/pc was going to be able to support cache consistency and multiprocessor operation.

lots of past 801 posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801

68k was still hanging in there in 89/90 time-frame ... a couple posts with some old references from the period (raw chip volumes, business analysis, etc)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#35 Intel strickes back with a parallel x86 design
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#44 Intel strickes back with a parallel x86 design

The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:42:00 -0600
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#18 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

the place that 43xx had the most difficult competition against vax/vms was in the single (at a time) departmental servers (as some of the SHARE studies highlighted). cost of mid-range computers had dropped below a threshold that made them very cost-effective in departmental settings ... however scarce people skills and costs then started to dominate as market inhibitor.

43xx did do very well in large number of departmental server orders (especially with distributed, networked operation) ... where people support skill/costs could be amortized across large number of machines.

clusters of 43xx also started to impact 3033. at one point (traditional internal politics), the head of pok, manipulated east fishkill to cut the allocation in half of a critical component needed for 43xx manufacturing. later the same person gave a talk to a large public audience and made some statement that something like 11,000 vax/vms orders should have been 43xx ... also referenced in this old post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#15 departmental servers

and old email mentioning various 43xx issues ... including moving workload off 3033 boxes onto 4341 clusters ... and large distributed departmental server operations.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx

The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:27:44 -0600
eugene@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) writes:
No, the most difficult competition was and is against the IBM PC.

If it did so well, we'd see more evidence of it being around. They are not even museum pieces.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#20 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

you didn't read the zillion previous posts mentioning that mid-range market for both vax/vms and 43xx volumes in departmental server market started to move to workstations and larger PCs in the mid-80s. above reference post ... mentions the previous post in the thread ... which made the same point one more time (and then later the workstations started to also loose out to PCs).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#18 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

for instance, the 4361/4381 which were expecting similar large volume sales as seen for 4331/4341 ... never happened. similar numbers can be seen for vax/vms numbers ... where vax did do some volumes in the mid-80s with micro-vax ... also readily seen in the repeated references to decade of vax/vms numbers, sliced & diced by model, yr, domestic, world-wide, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#0 Computers in Science Fiction

... the 4331s/4341s and other mid-market players in the departmental servers had very little PCs to compete with (late 70s and early 80s) ... it wasn't until you get to the followon machines; 4361s/4381s (and later vax) that you start to see the workstation/PC effect in the departmental server market.

one of the contributions to the PCs in the departmental server market was a project called DataHub which was being done by the san jose disk division. Part of the software implementation was being done under work-for-hire subcontract by a group in Provo (one of the people from San Jose commuted to Provo nearly every week). At some point, the company decided to kill the DataHub project and allowed the Provo group to retain rights to everything that they had done under the work-for-hire contract. Not too long later, there was a company out of Provo with a PC server offering.

misc. past posts mentioning DataHub project:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4a John Hartmann's Birthday Party
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#40 No more innovation? Get serious
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#19 When will IBM buy Sun?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#79 Coulda, Woulda, Shoudda moments?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#33 Over-the-shoulder effect
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#26 MP cost effectiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#13 Alpha performance, why?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#16 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005p.html#23 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#9 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#36 Intel strikes back with a parallel x86 design
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#39 Token-ring vs Ethernet - 10 years later
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#31 "The Elements of Programming Style"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#17 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#49 How difficult would it be for a SYSPROG ?

in the mean time, the communication division had seen a huge install base of communication controllers grow based on terminal emulation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#emulation

which was started to break away into various kinds of client/server ... they came up with SAA ... somewhat positioned at helping preserve their communication controller market (and countermeasure to client/server). A problem we had in this period was that we were making some number of customer executive presentations on 3-tier (network) architecture ... and taking flames & barbs from the SAA factions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#3tier

other recent posts in this same thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#42 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#44 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#45 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#48 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#50 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#57 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#63 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#72 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#0 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#12 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#13 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#19 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

What if phone company had developed Internet?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet?
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:27:10 -0600
Bob Ward <bobward@email.com> writes:
You missed out on the first ten years of BBS's? I was running the ASCII Attic in San Bernardino, CA in the early 80's...

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#15 What if phone company had developed Internet?

using csnet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#0

doing high-speed backbone
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt

on the internal network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

internal network announcement of 1000th node ... not too long after the great arpanet-to-internet conversion (which was somewhere between 100 nodes and 255 nodes ... depending on how you count)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#22

other references to locations that added one or more internal network nodes during 1983 (over 100 different locations, including most major cities around the world)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#8 Arpa address

also working with the people trying to put in place nsfnet backbone .... various old email references
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet
and posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#nsfnet

at one point, the internal high-speed backbone ... providing austin access to LSM (high-speed vlsi chip logic simulator) in los gatos was credited with helping bring in the RIOS chipset (aka power, rs/6000) a year early. ... recent post/ref
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#61 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

one of the issues with internal network links were that everything leaving a corporate facility had to be encrypted. this wasn't too bad for slower-speed links ... but got a lot harder for some of our higher-speed stuff and also for links that cross national boundaries (even if it was between sites for the same corporation). comment in the mid-80s that the internal network had over half of all the link encryptors in the world. misc. old email mentioning different kinds of crypto
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#crypto

other posts in these threads:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#71 What if there were two Internets?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#7 What if there were two Internets?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#14 What if there were two Internets?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#16 What if phone company had developed Internet?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#17 What if phone company had developed Internet?

What if phone company had developed Internet?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet?
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:38:13 -0600
Bob Ward <bobward@email.com> writes:
You missed out on the first ten years of BBS's? I was running the ASCII Attic in San Bernardino, CA in the early 80's...

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#15 What if phone company had developed Internet?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#22 What if phone company had developed Internet?

oh ... and i got to do a lot of the stuff for online machine at the science center ... write a lot of the kernel software, do a lot of the production operational support ... when I got my home terminal in mar 1970 ... it was where I would dial-in to to get online access.

the science center, 4th flr, 545 tech sq was also where virtual machines originated (with cp40 in the mid-60s),
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech

the internal network started
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

GML was invented ... precusor to SGML, HTML, XML, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml

a recent post tracing some of the evoluation ... with a little RDBMS archeology also thrown in
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#24 Newbie question on table design

Both CERN and SLAC ("sister" high energy physic installations) were large vm370/cms shops (virtual machine cp67 system which morphed into virtual machine vm370 system in the 70s); reference to to CERN HTML evolving out of CMS/GML
http://infomesh.net/html/history/early/

and first webserver outside europe was on slac's vm370 system
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/history/earlyweb/history.shtml

some amount of online, commercial timesharing in the late 60s and 70s was based on the virtual machine technology (cp67 and later vm370) from the science center
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#timeshare

What if phone company had developed Internet?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet?
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 04:57:53 -0600
Bob Ward <bobward@email.com> writes:
As I said, all this claimed experience, but no knowledge of the BBS world before the early 1990's?

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#22 What if phone company had developed Internet

my earlier reference was operating my own bbs platform on ms/dos platfrom using waffle and supporting satellite usenet feed (in the early 90s)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#17 What if phone company had developed Internet

i thot your previous comment appeared to imply what i supported/used in the 70s & 80s ... as opposed knowledge of.

however, from long ago and far away ... old usenet reference from early 80s:

Date: 10/27/83 17:10:13
To: wheeler

The following comes to me from a non-IBM friend, who found it on the Usenet (Unix Network) Bulletin Board System...

"There are a few chip designers and sellers at Intel (the rumor goes) who would like to shoot Bill Gates right now. It seems the Microsoft folks can't read, and as a result Intel has a large pile of 80188s it can't ship. And Intel is redesigning the 80188 chip. Again."

"It's like this: the 8088 spec sheet reserves two of the 256 jump vector addresses for future Intel use. Microsoft went ahead anyway and used them in the MS-DOS operating system anyway. The large pile of 80188s that Intel can't ship use those two reserved vectors for a hardware purpose... Unfortunately, there are about 12,000 application programs sitting on computer retailer's shelves all over the country which call those vectors... Since Intel's documentation scrupulously documented that those two vectors are reserved, they are (the rumor goes) refusing to take back the 80188s (already) sold, unless (the rumor continues) the customer uses a blue logo with three alphabetic characters."

And now you know why Peanut hasn't been shipped yet, and what CPU Peanut uses. We wonder how long it will take Intel to change the mask -- again -- and get the chip back into production -- again?


... snip ... top of post, old email index

lots of csnet used phonenet ... and gatewayed "bang" addresses that would propagate thru the csnet interface ... i.e.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/internet.htm#0

other, not necessarily related old email back to early 70s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html

test email thru the csnet gateway:



Date: 13 Jan 1983 16:42:28PST
From: xxxx@xxxxx.UUCP at UDel-Relay
Return-Path: <xxxx@xxxxx.UUCP>
Date: 12-Jan-83 03:57:58-PST (Wed)
From: xxxx@xxxx.UUCP.Berkeley.ARPA
Subject: hi there
Received: by UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA (3.293 [1/9/83])
        id AA10567; 12-Jan-83 03:57:58-PST (Wed)
Received: from UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA by udel-relay.ARPA (3.284 [1/5/83])
id AA07867; 13-Jan-83 16:42:08-EST (Thu)
Message-Id: <8300121157.10567@UCBVAX.BERKELEY.ARPA>
To: ucbvax!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabs!sri-unix!wheeler.IBM-SJ@Udel-Relay.ARP

does this work?

... snip ... top of post, old email index

same person shortly later forwarded:


From ucsfcgl!ucbvax!mhtsa!ihnss!harpo!npois!jak Fri May 21 13:55:19 1982
Subject: all 7 old decwars articles
Newsgroups: net.sources

Subject: DEC WARS
Have you ever wondered what happened to all those characters eaten by
arpavax?  Well, we found most of them loitering around on our system,
taking up disk space.  So we're putting them back out on the net where
they belong.  Any resemblence to events real or imagined is purely
intentional.

A long time ago, on a node far, far away (from ucbvax).....

XXXXX   XXXXXX   XXXX  *        X    X    XX    XXXXX    XXXX     X
     X    X  X       X    X          X    X   X  X   X    X  X         X
X    X  XXXXX   X               X    X  X    X  X    X   XXXX     X
     X    X  X       X               X XX X  XXXXXX  XXXXX        X    X
X    X  X       X    X          XX  XX  X    X  X   X   X    X
XXXXX   XXXXXX   XXXX           X    X  X    X  X    X   XXXX     X

... snip ...

the actual file is much longer

however, quick check with search engine and slightly later version can be found here:
http://www.skepticfiles.org/cowtext/100/dec~1war.htm

Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:26:07 -0600
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
a couple recent items:

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#60 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

another:
Maryland Professor Creates Desktop Supercomputer Prototype
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/531072/?sc=rsbn


from above:
But no advancements in clock speed have been achieved since 2004. From an early stage, Vishkin foresaw that Moore's Law would ultimately fail to help improve clock speed due to physical limitations. This has guided his perseverance over his professional career in seeking to improve computer productivity by distributing the load among multiple processors, accomplishing computer tasks in parallel.

... snip ...

VM system kept NYSE running

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: VM system kept NYSE running
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:08:13 -0600
here is reference to some mainframe history including NYSE MDS-II, originally on a pair of specially duplexed 360/50s, which was upgraded to run in vm/4341 virtual machine lifetime)
http://www.raylsaunders.com/asmwork.html or wayback machine
http://web.archive.org/web/20060220161415/http://raylsaunders.com/asmwork.html

Minor typo in the above ... mentions MVS-Release 11 ... but obviously should be MFT-Release 11 (MVT came with Release 12 or 13).

One of the description is about author processing information from other users ... using a process that originated in the 60s on cp67 and remained relatively unchanged through the addition of networking and whether it involved exchange between two users on the same machine or different machines.

old post with copy of one of my versions that provided similar functionality to the what was mentioned in the above:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#56 Oldest running code

the example exec takes advantage of the fact that in CMS, (initially) all kernel system APIs, command line input, and exec (command script) processing are done by a common routine. With minimal hack it is possible to take something that is an assembler program kernel API and use it directly in in an exec (command script). My exec (included in the referenced post) includes what is nominal an assembler kernel API call to WAIT on (ready) interrupt from reader (indicating new arrival). The trailing garbage characters on the "WAIT RDR1RDR1" line are supposed to be 8 bytes of binary zeros, which is a standard way to terminate CMS kernel API parameter list.

What if phone company had developed Internet?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What if phone company had developed Internet?
Newsgroups: soc.history.what-if,alt.history.what-if,alt.fan.cecil-adams
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:59:22 -0600
ncwaite writes:
Phone companies used to supply some content. The Speaking Clock is probably the best example, but in the old days of the British GPO, you had Directory Enquiries, Weather Reports and even the Recipe of the Day. I read once that in the very early days of the telephone (before regular radio broadcasts started), it was proposed that people could listen in to concerts via the telephone. You could describe this as a Victorian version of media streaming.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#15 What if phone company had developed Internet?

one of the telcos that provided a lot of the services for NSFNET backbone, misc. old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet

(aka tcp/ip is technology basis for modern internetworking, nsfnet backbone was the operational basis for modern internetworking, and cix & peering aggreements was the business/commercial basis for modern internetworking)

.... appeared to also underwrite the cost of developing the electronic commerce "mall metaphor" webserver (anticipating that they would be the major service provider for that capability). this didn't appear to really take off ... and then a "stripped" down electronic commerce webserver version was then done for individual merchants ... we had been called in to consult with this small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on this thing that they were calling commerce server (and had this new technology they were calling SSL).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

businesses that now do (individual) webhosting have since come into play ... but these tend to be individual web servers (as opposed to the mall metaphor webserver).

for other drift, one of the new buzzwords is "server consolidation" ... i.e. frequently involving combinations of (floor/space saving) "blades" and "virtualization" (leveraging virtualization to compensate for most webservers tending to have very low, sporadic and/or bursty utilization patterns).

and of course, virtual machines are the 40yr old, new thing ... courtesy of the science center, 4th flr, 545 tech. sq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech

where gml was also invented ... precursor to sgml, html, xml, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml

as well as the internal network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet

aka, previous post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#23 What if phone company had developed Internet?

Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:37:47 -0600
HP fires up Multi-Core Aid effort
http://www.theregister.com/2007/06/27/hp_multicore_mop/

from above ...
HP has located a few friends, including Intel and AMD, to help it deal with the multi-core processor morass.

The hardware vendor has invited chums to join its new Multi-Core Optimization Program (MOP), which will support work that makes software run better across chips with numerous processor cores.


... snip ...

Programmable TLB management?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Programmable TLB management?
Newsgroups: comp.arch
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 05:26:44 -0600
John Mashey <old_systems_guy@yahoo.com> writes:
This bug, of course, confirmed the argument of the OS people who'd fought with bugs for years in complex hardware MMUs, and had bigged the chip designers for the most minimalist MMU we could get ... and even that had a bug. It was unsurprising that early 1980s micros often had MMU bugs, and OS programmers hated them.

360/67 had a bug in the associative array (i.e. used by 360/67 for TLB) that charlie (aka compare&swap, CAS, charlie) found circa 1970 (nearly 40yrs ago).

on page fault interrupt, the 360/67 cleared all the associative array entries to zeros w/o setting the invalid bits (bug). this hadn't been uncovered since the kernel would eventually do LCTL of CR0 (the segment table pointer) which would reset the associative array, and all entries would have invalid flag turned on (i.e. associative array only handled single address space, and any reload of the virtual address space table pointer would reset all the entries, even if it was for the same virtual address).

so charlie was attempting to eek a couple extra cycles (in kernel interrupt handling) by eliminating unnecessary LCTLs, resetting the associative array. The hardware bug was that now all entries in the associative array were set to map virtual page zero to real page zero ... and if the page fault handling could be done w/o switching to different address space (like if the page invalid bit was on, but virtual page still in real storage and could be "reclaimed"), then there was some chance the virtual address space execution and/or the system might have some explained anomolous behavior. Kernel software work around was to make sure that LCTL was always done.

How would a relational operating system look like?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How would a relational operating system look like?
Newsgroups: comp.databases.theory
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:13:32 -0600
Cimode <cimode@hotmail.com> writes:
Hi,

Lately, I came to put a version of Microsoft Vista on my desktop. As I am accustomed to with Microsoft OS's, I am bracing for the impact of how much extra RAM will be consumed when adopting a new generation of OS to make it function prperly. For Vista, I found out it is a nightmare! To make the usual applications I use (mainly administration tools), no less than 4Gb of RAM are required to avoid the screen *hanging on*/reeze effect one gets when openning several applications simultaneously. As a result I went back to XP Pro more and more despaired by the utter unefficiency of current OS and Environments. Convinced that a perfect OS is nothing else than a relational OS, I kept dreaming about building one someday.


do a little cleaning of boxes in the basement, found
Notes On Data Base Operating Systems, RJ1288, 2/23/78, 111pgs, James Gray.

ABSTRACT: This paper is a compendium of data base management operating systems folklore. It is an early paper and is still in draft form. It is intended as a set of course notes for a class on data base operating systems. After a brief overview of what a data management system is, it focuses on particular issues unique to the transaction management component especially locking and recovery.


misc. other posts mentioning system/r
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr

the bibliography from a System R web site:
http://www.mcjones.org/System_R/bib.html

also mentions that the above paper appeared in "Operating Systems: An Advanced Course", Springer-Verlag, 1978, p. 393.

The document is standard CMS script (gml) document format (reproduced from copy printed on 1403/3211 with TN chain). Virtualized CMS was standard internal personal computing environment ... first with cp67 which later morphed into vm370. The system/r implementation was done as virtualized operation under vm370.

This is 40yr old new thing, now starting to take on renewed life.

For a little topic drift in this thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#64 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#65 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#67 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#68 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#69 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#73 Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#11 Operating systems are old and busted

with some references:
Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.theregister.com/2007/06/20/usenix_07_opening_keynote/
Operating systems are old and busted
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/06/20/usenix_07_opening_keynote/
Leopard and Vista: Last Gasp of the Big OS?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/133276
Leopard and Vista: Last Gasp of the Big OS?
http://www.pcworld.ca/news/column/63b28a3a0a01040801e9093a3cb7de53/pg0.htm


IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 12:13:05 -0600
rfochtman@ibm-main.lst (Rick Fochtman) writes:
If the business needs are being satisfied, with reasonable economy, who cares whether the box is "the lastest and greatest"? Future business needs may or may not dictate upgrades. YMMV

a little search engine mainframe surfing for vm/4341 turned up this story about a vm/4341 keeping the nyse running well thru the 80s ... apparently with an old mvt system that had been moved from 360/50s
http://www.raylsaunders.com/asmwork.html that i mentioned in this recent post:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#26 VM system kept NYSE running

a quick check just this moment, turns up some problem with the URL ... but (as always) the wayback machine knows
http://web.archive.org/web/20060220161415/http://raylsaunders.com/asmwork.html

for other topic drift ... we spent some amount of time in the early 90s talking to SIAC about using ha/cmp for much of the work that the tandems were doing (see mainframe MDS-II being replaced with tandem MDS-IIIs in the above reference) ... lots of ha/cmp references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

this was in the period that we were also working on ha/cmp scaleup and trying to cram as much computing into dense footprint, old email references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

I had actually attempted to do something similar nearly a decade earlier with trying to cram as many 370 chipsets (each had about 168-3 thruput) as possible into racks.

the old 8-10 yr cycle for mainframe generations (and obsolescence) really showed up when the early 70s FS project was killed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

since FS was going to be something completely different, much of the work on 370 related stuff pretty much went away. after FS was killed, there was a scramble to get stuff back into the 370 product pipeline. 370-xa/3081 was going to take eight yrs (early 80s) ... so they had to find something else that could be done in possibly half that time.

the resulting 303x was quite a bit of warmed over 370. they took the intergrated channel microcode from 158 and made it stand-alone box called channel director. Then 158 paired with a channel director became 3031 (with integrated channel microcode running on different processor). 168 became 3032 repackaged to work with channel director. 3033 started out as 168 wiring diagram implemented with faster chip technology. straight-forward mapping would have just been 20percent faster than 168 ... other tweaks done during development got 3033 up to 1.5times 168.

part of the issue was that up to the 80s, lots of technology was on 7-10yr cycle ... where in the 80s, the rate of change started to accelerate; for a time, leaving some mainframe technology in the dust.

note that it wasn't just mainframes. circa 1990, the US automobile (C4) task force looked at being able to accelerate (cut in half) US automobile product cycle from 7-8yrs (in attempt to get on level playing field with some of the imports). it was interesting to watch what the mainframe people were saying in the meetings (since, at the time, they were effectively in the same boat).

one of the things that the automobile industry had been doing would run parallel new product projects offset by four yrs (so it appeared that something new was coming out every four yrs). the analogy for mainframes ... was as soon as 3033 was out the door, they started on 3090 (overlap with 3081 with 4yr offset). in fairly stable industry this worked since consumer tastes weren't signicantly changing. However the 8yr lag could become significant if there was any significant change in what the market place was looking for (giving vendors that had much shorter product cycle a competitive edge).

some recent references to C4 effort circa 1990 ... attempting to improve competitive footing vis-a-vis several imports:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#50 The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#29 The Perfect Computer - 36 bits?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#34 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#52 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#13 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#33 IBM Unionization

What I miss in my OS

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What I miss in my OS
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 16:54:20 -0600
Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chromatico.net> writes:
Thus, if somehow I am transported back to BAH's circa-1980 workflow and a developer hands me a bunch of edits on paper, I can make each one and save the file, and get the benefits of BAH's no-backups approach. The existence of automatically saved backup files should be no hindrance to using a workflow that's been outdated for the past 20 years.

cp67/cms supported a single "update" file to a particular source file ... and you had to "edit" the update file ... along with all the control stuff. very early 70s, this was augmented with an iterative process that would cycle thru a number of cascading "updates" (part of multi-level update project to support unanounced 370 architecture features under cp67). later in the 70s, some of the 3270 fullscreen editors got enhancements to save source file changes as "updates" (the original source file left unchanged ... and an "update" file was saved with control statements to modify the original source to what had been performed in the edit session).

for random drift ... recent post mentioning some connection between the cms multi-level update work and internet domain name system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#33 Even worse than UNIX

misc. other recent posts mentioning cms source update processes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#12 FBA rant
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#11 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#15 Patents, Copyrights, Profits, Flex and Hercules
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#3 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

misc. recent posts about supporting unannounced 370 features under cp67:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#20 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#12 FBA rant
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#16 when was MMU virtualization first considered practical?

What I miss in my OS

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: What I miss in my OS
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 17:39:28 -0600
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#32 What I miss in my OS

for a slightly different take ... post in thread that ran in comp.databases.theory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#30 How would a relational operating system look like?

now this post touches on log structured filesystems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#6 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

... but mentions that typically it refers to database type transaction logging of filesystem control information ... as opposed to always writing new/changed data to a new (physical) disk location (frequently also preserving unmodified records ... which then periodically requires "garbage collection" ... file reorganzations for things like contiguous/sequential).

so one of the "post-relational" databases that did something similar was Illustra ... where changed/updated records always went to new disk location and allowed arbitrary older versions/views (various combinations of original records and some selected set of changed/modified records). Ilustra was bought up by Informix ... which was subsequently bought by IBM.

Surviving web references seem to be mostly about Illustra object/relational paradigm ... and very little about the versioning methodology (which required periodic processes for "garbage collection" and deletion of unwanted versions)

http://philip.greenspun.com/wtr/illustra-tips.html

from above:
Archiving

One of Illustra's coolest sounding features is archiving. You get to query the system to find out what your data looked like, say, 6 months ago. I relied on this feature in a classified ad system. I would DELETE the ads from the table but still have them around when I wanted to calculate statistics on, say, how many users had successfully sold their goods because of the service.


... snip ...

so if you leave/preserve the older versions ... then you also get archiving

IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware

Refed: **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:09:50 -0600
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
in fairly stable industry this worked since consumer tastes weren't signicantly changing. However the 8yr lag could become significant if there was any significant change in what the market place was looking for (giving vendors that had much shorter product cycle a competitive edge).

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#31 IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware

of course, this could be considered another plug for cycling Boyd's OODA-loops faster. misc. past posts mentioning Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd

and various URLs from around the web mentioning Boyd and/or OODA-loops
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2

IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
To: <ibm-main@bama.ua.edu>
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 10:46:45 -0600
chrismason@BELGACOM.NET (Chris Mason) writes:
One of the presentations was someone from a big UK bank who defended IBM having made the 155 and 165 available and relatively shortly afterwards having announced the 158 and 168 - together with the relatively expensive DAT box extension to the 155 and 165. I hope I'm remembering the details about right.

I heard about this only second-hand but I believe the argument was that IBM was right to offer the enhanced performance of the 155 and 165 as soon as it could in spite of the fact that it knew that the virtual storage models were well advanced in development. I guess there was a shadow of the "it's illegal to preannounce" principle hanging over this.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#31 IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#34 IBM obsoleting mainframe hardware

370/165 ... announce jun70
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP3165.html

370/168 ... announce aug72
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP3168.html

for virtual memory ... hacking virtual memory support into MVT (for VS2/SVS) was needed in addition to the virtual memory hardware retrofitted to 165s (there were significant software as well as hardware schedules).

this is similar to previous comments about crash program to try and get out 370-xa (after FS project was killed) and POK in 1976, convincing the corporation to shutdown vm370 product and transfer all the developers to POK as part of being able to make mvs/xa (software) schedule (although Endicott was eventually able to save part of the vm370 product mission).

i've mentioned before about (370 virtual memory) prototype work that went on in pok, using 360/67s and hacking "single address space" virtual memory into the side of MVT ... as well as cobbling in cp67's (ccw translation) CCWTRAN into MVT ... i.e. cp67 had started out having to build "shadow" channel programs with real addresses ... for the virtual machine's channel programs; (in SVS) all the (MVT) channel programs passed via EXCP ... would be equivalent "virtual address" channel programs ... requiring similar translation (and misc. other things like page locking/pinning)

recent posts about using CP67's CCWTRANS as part of turning MVT into os2/svs
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#6 IBM S/360 series operating systems history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#33 Historical curiosity question

The other part ... was that there was a lot of work to retrofit virtual memory to 165 ... so much so that they ran into schedule problems. In order to buy back six months in the 165 virtual memory schedule, there was an escalation dropping several features from the original 370 virtual memory architecture. Once the 165 engineers had won that battle, then all the other processors (that had already completed their virtual memory implementations) ... had to go back and remove the dropped features.

recent posts mentioning 165-ii schedule issues and impact on dropping features from original 370 virtual memory architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#7 IBM S/360 series operating systems history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#16 more shared segment archeology
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#43 z/VM usability
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#28 IBM 360 Model 20 Questions

How to flush data most efficiently from memory to disk when db checkpoint?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How to flush data most efficiently from memory to disk when db checkpoint?
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.databases.theory
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 11:18:02 -0600
Sune <sune_ahlgren@hotmail.com> writes:
I'm looking into designing an in-memory DB and I wonder:

How to flush data most efficiently when I checkpoint?

Say I have a page size of 8K and 1K of those have been updated in random places, that is, the changes may be contiguous but most likely they are not.

Will it always be more efficient to flush the whole page instead of keeping track of each element and write them to disk one by one? Obviously, if I did this I would flush them from page offset 0 to the end of the page, in that order.

Sorry to bother you with such elementary questions but I want to get things right from the beginning, and other people's experiences are usually very helpful.


some of this can be related to transactional memory ... there have been various past threads in comp.arch about both software & hardware transaction memory.

early 801/risc (late 70s, early 80s) had support for hardware transactional memory ... it was used for journaled filesystem (JFS) in aixv3 on RIOS (i.e. power, rs/6000) ... basically all the (unix) filesystem metadata was laid out in memory area defined for transactional memory. wiki reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFS_file_system

there are granualarity trade-offs regarding having explicit log API ... and having explicit references to all changes or having to scan for all the actual changes. when palo alto started looking at porting jfs to platforms w/o transaction memory ... they found that they actually had better performance with the explicit log calls ... even compared to retrofitting to aixv3 running on rs/6000 (and not using the hardware transactional memory)

references to software transactional memory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_transactional_memory

part of the transactional memory tends to also get tied up with parallelism and concurrency models

a comp.arch thread (from google groups)
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch/browse_thread/thread/5b0cb88a6d36b309/f5ad4a01cbed0a79?lnk=st&q=&rnum=12#f5ad4a01cbed0a79

intel article related to large number of cores
http://www.intel.com/technology/magazine/computing/tera-scale-0606.htm

FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject:  FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 14:10:52 -0600
FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/07/01/1718221.shtml
Startup FastSoft Prepares App Accelerator
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2152807,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03119TX1K0000594

older threads on this subject:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#1 FAST - Shame On You Caltech!!!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#46 Fast TCP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#8 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#9 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#12 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#13 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#16 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#17 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#18 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#19 FAST TCP makes dialup faster than broadband?

Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 15:15:21 -0600
greymaus writes:
Now being supplented by 'minidigger', tracked vehicle with just the digging arm, and without the loading bucket in front/back.. AFAIK, the U.S. version of the JCB is a bit more limited than the U.K. version.

how 'bout ditch-witch,
http://www.ditchwitch.com/
some history
http://www.ditchwitch.com/dwcom/AboutUs/index.jsp

they have trenchers that are about half the size of small car (they actually come in a variety of sizes). they are commingly used for underground utilities, propane gas lines, etc (i.e. bldg. codes typically have 500gal propane tanks quite a distance from nearest structure).

one of the relatives had acquired one, there was big business installing 500gal propane tanks leading up to y2k.

Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 19:06:43 -0600
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#38 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?

the ditch-witch, a relative got, was tracked vehicle about the half the size of small automobile ... there was no place for the operator to ride, the operator walked along side the machine ... ditch-witch family company originated 1902
http://www.ditchwitch.com/

all the JCB stuff appears to be more traditional construction and agricultural equipment ... JCB family company originated 1945
http://www.jcb.com/

they all appear to have some sort of platform for the operator to ride.

more like the small caterpillar stuff i.e. select "compact equipment" at:
http://www.cat.com/

the stuff i grew up with was more traditional farm equipment, international harvestor (last tractor was 1985) and massey-furgeson
http://www.masseyferguson.com/

i really learned to drive, summer i turned nine ... old yellow 38chevy(?) flatbed .... starter was pedel on the floor and there was no synchromesh ... all gear shifts required double clutch (or come to stop) and you had to acquire an ear for the correct engine speed

http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/38yellow.jpg

38chev?

... slightly related topic drift
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#18 Scholars needed to build a computer history bibliography

before that i was just allowed to do some steering on small farm tractor.

Windows Monitor or CUSP?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 06:32:11 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
All banking going on-line is inevitable. Which OS is going to be the default is still to be determined. At the moment, there are one and one-half choices of OS software for the regular user. The "one" is whatever MS shite is automatically installed on all systems. The one-half is a Unix-flavor and it takes an effort or the help of a friendly geek to get that software system installed for regular use.

a little x-over ... recent thread in crypto mailing list
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#31 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#32 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#33 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game

Windows: Monitor or CUSP?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows:  Monitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 03:31:31 -0600
Greg Menke <gusenet@comcast.net> writes:
I think there are very legitimate reasons to be skeptical of IP in space comms, IMHO mostly wrt integration with existing infrastructure. There are various ways the protocol layers can stack up, some of which are quite extravagantly bad. Personally I think IP as a space comms protocol is a natural extension of the NASA ground networks, but I have doubts about the suitablility of dynamic routing protocols & DNS, among other things. There are lots of onboard issues too; how to throttle transmits, schedule traffic and efficiently handle reliable transfers without reimplementing an even worse TCP are some biggies right off the top of my head.

for a little drift:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#37 FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance

when we were doing this thing called a payment gateway
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

in support of this stuff that since has comingly come to be called electronic commerce ... there was a lot of traditional business critical dataprocessing ... recent reference
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#10 The top 10 dead (or dying) computer skills

and stuff we had learned doing ha/cmp product
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

... and some reference here
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#7 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

above also references giving a keynote at NASA reliable computer workshop.

So one of the payment gateway things was having redundant and fall-over operations with (telco-like) diverse routing (different physical links into different parts of internet backbone). One of the things we had started out planning on doing was multi-home operation and advertising our own routes. During the course of the implementation, there was internet policy decision to transition to hierarchical routing (drastically reducing size of routing tables required in the backbone routers). This forced us to fall-back to primarily DNS multi a-records as compensating process for issue of ip-address reachability.

for further drift, we had done a stint on the XTP technical advisory board ... a late 80s, early 90s protocol effort that was looking at addressing several of the related protocol issues in TCP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp

Windows: Monitor or CUSP?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows:  Monitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 07:06:07 -0600
Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
Those are slightly different layers from the TCP/IP (not the seven-layer OSI) model. The TCP/IP model keeps your 1,2,3; and uses a combined layer for what OSI calls session and transport, and some of the presentation layer.

The rest is applications.

The seven layer model is useful first and foremost as a taxonomy; i.e. a model to describe. It does _not_ mean you need a separate subroutine or class library for each layer.

This is even said clearly in the preambles to the OSI standards.


ISO (international standards) had process that there couldn't be work on networking standards that didn't conform to the OSI model.

X3S3.3 was ANSI standards body for network/transport (layer 3&4) standards (and ISO chartered ... so had to conform to rules about not working on standards that didn't conform to the OSI model.

there was a forey into X3S3.3 for something called HSP (high-speed protocol) ... but because of ISO rules (regarding work on protocols that didn't conform to OSI model) it couldn't proceed because

1) HSP support for internetworking protocol. internetworking is an non-existant layer in OSI tha would sit between layer 3 (networking) and layer 4 (transport). support for internetworking (non-existant in OSI) violated OSI model and therefor according to ISO couldn't be worked on

2) HSP support for LAN/MAC interface. LAN/MAC is an interface that doesn't exist in OSI ... sitting somewhere in the middle of layer3/networking (it is physical transport, but MAC interface includes some networking features from layer3). support of LAN/MAC interface (non-existant in OSI) violated OSI model and therefor according to ISO couldn't be worked on

3) HSP went directly from transport to LAN/MAC interface, bypassing layer3/layer4 (network/transport) interface ... again violating OSI model (according to ISO guidelines).

There is some complications at the ISO level ... since IEEE is also a ISO chartered standards body ... and LAN/MAC interface does have IEEE standards. ISO sort of resolved this by allowing standards bodies to pass standards that violated the OSI model ... but they couldn't do work on protocols that violated the OSI model.

OSI model is also a ISO standard ... so there sometimes is confusion whether people are referring to just the 7-layer abstraction emboddied in OSI model ... and/or all the additional stuff related to it being an ISO standard (ISO 7498 and various addendas)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Systems_Interconnection

In the 80s and early 90s, the ISO & chartered standards organizations were the arbiter as to what did & didn't conform to OSI model (claiming ownership of the OSI model as an ISO standard). Since that time, there have been claims that OSI model really includes lots of stuff that previously had been stipulated as violating the OSI model.

old email regarding HSP/x3s3.3 activity
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#email890327

part of postings in this thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#24 Does socket represent an interface between ... ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#25 Does socket represent an interface between ... ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#28 OSI abandoned!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#38 OSI abandoned!

lots of past posts mentioning HSP, OSI, and/or ANSI X3S3.3
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp

Windows Monitor or CUSP?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 07:26:47 -0600
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
There is a variation of this device in which the PIN is keyed into the device and modifies the number produced. Morten seems to be in possession of one of these kind for his online banking - I wish they were all up to the standard he calls "an elementary baseline".

old post doing some work with one companies that manufactures (at least) one of the devices (they were part way between amdsterdam, brussels, and dusseldorf, flew into amsterdam, flew out of dusseldorf, but included side road trip to brussels).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#57 Q: Internet banking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#60 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#61 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#55 I-net banking security

basically small calculator sized device, with keypad and display, slip in a (bank) chipcard, enter real-time "challenge" from the bank, the card then crunches the number and presents a response on the display. basically there is "your" DES key at the bank and in the chipcard. not only works with PC ... but also over telephone. bank can generate a random challenge for each transaction ... and the chipcard transforms it ... and the bank then can verify correct chipcard by the response. basically something you have authentication (aka the secret DES key should only exist in that one card).

and as referenced earlier in this thread ... there is thread in crypto mailing list on some aspects of this
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#40 Windows Monitor or CUSP?

couple more recent posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#39 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#40 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game

the Depression WWII

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: the Depression WWII
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 12:59:03 -0600
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
or boyd's scenario about doing something or taking credit for doing something ... from dedication of Boyd Hall at USAF weapons school:

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#4 the Depression WWII

for slightly different take on boyd's quote, a recent item from yesterday (classifies populations into two categories, cooperators and cheaters):

Reap what your ancestors sowed; Cheating has long-term consequences in the evolution of cooperation, finds a University of Texas at Austin biologist
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-07/uota-rwy070207.php

and other recent posts mentioning boyd guote at dedication of boyd hall
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#20 MS to world: Stop sending money, we have enough - was Re: Most ... can't run Vista
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#74 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#61 Lean and Mean: 150,000 U.S. layoffs for IBM?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#77 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#3 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#5 IBM Unionization

lots of past posts mentioning Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd
and various posts from around the web mentioning Boyd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subboyd.html#boyd2

Windows Monitor or CUSP?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 14:27:47 -0600
Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
This is the "third mode" of the cards available here. This mode is not used, but they have announced that these services will be available for third parties.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#43 Windows Monitor or CUSP?

this was the standard operation that they were distributing at the time ... could use chipcards that were already distributed and the cost of the additional unit (effectively keypad & display borrowed straight from extremely inexpensive calculators ... no actual calculator chip ... but battery and contacts to drive chip in the card. since the card was already deployed ... the additional calculator device was extremely minimal costs

current webpage reference for device
http://www.cpseurope.com/_pages/projects-list-11.asp

says that more than a million have been distributed by ABN AMRO since 2001.

since then there also has been a number of corporate re-orgs and ownership ... currently ...
http://www.aos-hagenuk.com/
&
http://www.vasco.com/

e-banking page:
http://www.aos-hagenuk.com/ebanking.html

for other topic drift ... recent set of posts on european "electronic purses"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#41 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#42 The bank fraud blame game

Windows Monitor or CUSP?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 08:47:42 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
It's beginning to sound like the proposal I wrote up where people carried their OS system and its context around with them.

a previous incarnation that effectively confused identification and authentication (periodically in conjunction with chip/hardware tokens) were x.509 identity digital certificates (from early 90s). there were possibly multi billions spent on such efforts.

by the mid-90s most institutions were beginning to realize that x.509 identity digital certificates, overloaded with personal information, represented significant privacy and liability concerns. you then saw retrenchment to what they were calling relying-party-only digital certificates ... where all the personal information was eliminated.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#rpo

however, it was usually trivial to demonstrate that such digital certificates were redundant and superfluous ... i.e. apparently the indoctrination about digital certificates as being a *good thing*, had been so effective that there were extrodinary efforts to retain them. However, the advocated value for digital certificates was actually in the information they certified ... if all the certified information was removed ... then they effectively became empty containers. Organizations were forced to retrench to some other source for the certified information ... at which time, the alternative source was the "value" for the certified information ... and the empty digital certificates, with little or no useful certified information, became redundant and superfluous.

recent topic drift on the subject in this crypto mail list thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game

it hasn't been that there haven't been efforts to address various of the issues. over the past decade or two, there have been large billions spent on various aspects. in several cases, it wasn't so much that the technology wasn't good ... frequently it was that the application was so narrowly focused w/o even bothering to investigate the end-to-end implications .. in some cases, the subsequent changes even resulted in worsening the situation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game

misc. other posts in the thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#39 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#40 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#41 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#42 The bank fraud blame game

WindowsMonitor or CUSP?

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: WindowsMonitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:11:29 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
I was doing a cost analysis of soft/hardware technologies required to keep up with the crooks. I simply don't see how a small local bank would be able to keep up. Based on what my Mom's bank (which bought out all the local banks) has been doing, they don't have consider local conditions to make decisions. This smells like attitude my folks told me about pre-Depression days. Weren't bankers in charge of the Federal Reserve Board?

technology, dataprocessing, etc ... spans the whole gamut of banking operation ... not just countermeasures for crooks/attackers. lots of 3rd party dataprocessing outsourcing operations grew up to address opportunities for the small banks and would also provide various technology solutions, ... allowing the little banks to supposedly concentrate strictly on financial risk management and personal service.

Windows Monitor or CUSP?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:18:09 -0600
"Micheal H. McCabe" <mhmccabe@alltel.net> writes:
It's sad to say, but we're in worse shape regarding a pandemic than we were in 1917-1918 for the Spanish Flu. At that time, hospitals had excess capacity in the form of beds, nurses, and even physicians.

quarantine is really effective ... lower population density and much lower levels of mobility contributes quite a bit.

previous posts ... including gov. travel restrictions ... things like requiring doctor certificate to board a train
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006q.html#61 Wars and Allies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#49 Year-end computer bug could ground Shuttle
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#51 Year-end computer bug could ground Shuttle

VLIW pre-history

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VLIW pre-history
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.arch
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 09:02:28 -0600
jmfbahciv writes:
I've found that a lot of mistakes were made when time-flows were not distinguished from time-stamps. When you are dealing with incrementals you are acutally working with time-flows whose data is coming from time-stamps.

Thinking about date-times are not for the faint of heart..it also helps if you've already got gray hair, too :-).


this can blow both ways ... one of the places has been distributed transaction and recovery scenarios. some of the approaches have attempted to push "virtual time" ... i.e. a construct that purely attempts to maintain operation sequential ordering ... as opposed to needing any relationship to the "real" world.

we ran into some of this doing scale-up
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

as part of ha/cmp
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

database transactions recovery and distributed lock manager.

the issue is being able to do a "fast" commit (and release locks) as soon as information has been written to the log ... and not necessarily written back to "home" location in the database disk image. versions of the changed records may be floating around various distributed database caches. in the failure scenario ... recovery requires reconstructing the original transaction sequence, merging pieces from a bunch of distributed logs in the correct sequential order.

merging with strictly time-stamping ... can get into trouble if there is even very small timer drifts in the distributed processors. "virtual time" can try and create artificial time tics related to transaction events ... as opposed any real world time progression.

earlier my wife had to look at some of this stuff when she got con'ed into going to POK to be in charge of (mainframe) loosely-coupled (aka cluster/distributed) architecture.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#shareddata

which saw very little uptake until sysplex (except for IMS hot-standby). parallel sysplex tries to grapple with highly synchronized distributed timers ... in part, supporting consistency recovery for distributed transactions.

misc. recent posts mentioning work on distributed lock manager scale-up
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#42 Keep VM 24X7 365 days
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#61 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#19 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#24 Is Parallel Programming Just Too Hard?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#55 Capacity and Relational Database

WindowsMonitor or CUSP?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: WindowsMonitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:09:38 -0600
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#47 WindowsMonitor or CUSP?

here is a new one ... one of the old patterns were $5 at self-serve gas station followed within 20mins by purchase of >$100 athletic shoes (aka if the card had already been canceled they could just drive off, this was before the increasing use of surveillance cameras). this was more prominent with lost/stolen cards ... since owner would notice it missing and report it (allowing account number to be deactivated). In phishing & data breach attacks, the owner may not notice the information leakage until after the fraudulent transactions start to show up on their account/statement. Some of the countermeasures here, like phone calls for "suspicious" transactions are effectively in lieu of directly addressing infrastructure vulnerable to information leakage (and/or data breaches) ... i.e. the "naked" transaction scenario
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments
Credit card thieves donate to charity
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/072507-why-were-losing-the-botnet.html


from above ..
If the cards prove usable, the criminals can use them without worrying whether they will prove invalid and draw down law enforcement authorities, Symantec says.

... snip ...

Windows Monitor or CUSP? [was ReJohn W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies]

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? [was ReJohn W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies]
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 9:28 am
jmfbah...@aol.com wrote:
Rt. 9, Framingham. Somewhere in those blocks of stores south of Rt. 9 where Legal Seafoods now have their restaurant. I can't give you the exact date. I would guess September, 1994.

for total topic drift ... i remember going to lunch over in inman sq when there was only a single legal ... it was benches and tables upstairs from the fish market

Windows Monitor or CUSP?

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From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 10:34 am
On Jul 6, 2:09 pm, <l...@garlic.com> wrote:
Credit card thieves donate charity
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/072507-why-were-losing-the-botnet.html

from above ..

If the cards prove usable, the criminals can use them without worrying whether they will prove invalid and draw down law enforcement authorities, Symantec says.

... snip ...


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#50 WindowsMonitor or CUSP?

and for a little other drift:
Visa Rethinks Transactions, And The Devices That Make Them
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cmp/20070708/tc_cmp/200900838

Mobile payments have taken off most rapidly in Japan and South Korea. Korean telecom company SK Telecom recently began offering customers the ability, via several credit card issuers, to make mobile-phone payments at some 50,000 merchants using Visa's mobile platform, says Pam Zuercher, VP of product innovation at Visa.


... snip ...

we had stumbled to this more than a decade ago. after working with the small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on their server ... and working on translating MOTO-transactions (mail-order/telephone- order) to the internet .... something that has since come to be called electronic commerce
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

we got roped into working in the x9a10 financial standards working group which had been given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for all retail payments .... the result being the x9.59 financial standard
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959

the issue was looking at fraud, exploits, and vulnerabilities from the complete end-to-end standpoint and being able to address *ALL* the possible kinds of retail payments (credit, debit, ach, stored-value, etc) done in *ALL* possible environments (point-of-sale, face-to-face, non-face-to-face, internet, non-internet, etc) ... aka *ALL*.

So in addition to looking at the complete end-to-end threads and vulnerabilities we realized early that we had to assume being processing and form factor agnostic, somewhat related comments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game

other posts in the same thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#31 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#32 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#33 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#37 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#39 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#40 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#41 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#42 The bank fraud blame game other posts referring to having to be form-factor and/or processing agnostic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#straw AADS Strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm1 AADS Strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm2 AADS Strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm3 AADS Strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm2.htm#strawm4 AADS Strawman
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#cstech3 cardtech/securetech & CA PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#cstech9 cardtech/securetech & CA PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm3.htm#cstech10 cardtech/securetech & CA PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm8.htm#softpki8 Software for PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm9.htm#carnivore2 Shades of FV's Nathaniel Borenstein: Carnivore's "Magic Lantern"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#bio3 biometrics (addenda)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#bio7 biometrics
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#keygen Welome to the Internet, here's your private key
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#keygen2 Welome to the Internet, here's your private key
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm10.htm#boyd AN AGILITY-BASED OODA MODEL FOR THE e-COMMERCE/e-BUSINESS ENTERPRISE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#1 Basic credit-card payment question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#13 Words, Books, and Key Usage
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm11.htm#46 Giuliani: ID cards won't curb freedoms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#10 [3d-secure] 3D Secure and EMV
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#17 Overcoming the potential downside of TCPA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm12.htm#19 TCPA not virtualizable during ownership change (Re: Overcoming the potential downside of TCPA)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#18 A challenge
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm14.htm#19 Payments as an answer to spam (addenda)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#25 WYTM?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#10 Difference between TCPA- Hardware and a smart card (was: example:secure computing kernel needed)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm16.htm#12 Difference between TCPA- Hardware and a smart card (was: example: secure computing kernel needed)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm17.htm#0 Difference between TCPA- Hardware and a smart card (was: example: secure computing kernel needed)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#38 massive data theft at MasterCard processor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm19.htm#41 massive data theft at MasterCard processor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#21 Qualified Certificate Request
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#11 Payment Tokens
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm21.htm#13 Contactless payments and the security challenges
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#40 FraudWatch - Chip&Pin, a new tenner (USD10)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#41 FraudWatch - Chip&Pin, a new tenner (USD10)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#45 Court rules email addresses are not signatures, and signs death warrant for Digital Signatures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm22.htm#46 Court rules email addresses are not signatures, and signs death warrant for Digital Signatures
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#15 Security Soap Opera - (Central) banks don't (want to) know, MS prefers Brand X, airlines selling your identity, first transaction trojan
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#53 Status of SRP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm23.htm#56 UK Detects Chip-And-PIN Security Flaw
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#1 UK Detects Chip-And-PIN Security Flaw
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#2 UK Banks Expected To Move To DDA EMV Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#5 New ISO standard aims to ensure the security of financial transactions on the Internet
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#7 Naked Payments IV - let's all go naked
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#8 Microsoft - will they bungle the security game?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#23 Use of TPM chip for RNG?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#27 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#28 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#29 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#30 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#49 Crypto to defend chip IP: snake oil or good idea?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#50 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm24.htm#52 Crypto to defend chip IP: snake oil or good idea?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#1 Crypto to defend chip IP: snake oil or good idea?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#24 DDA cards may address the UK Chip&Pin woes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm25.htm#42 Why security training is really important (and it ain't anything to do with security!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#165 checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#170 checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#189 Internet Credit Card Security
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#35 Failure of PKI in messaging
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#48 Governance of anonymous financial services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#2 Financial Stnadards Work group?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#14 FW: RS6000 vs IBM Mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001c.html#73 PKI and Non-repudiation practicalities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#31 Remove the name from credit cards!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#38 distributed authentication
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#7 PKI/Digital signature doesn't work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001h.html#75 Net banking, is it safe???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001i.html#36 Net banking, is it safe???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#44 Does "Strong Security" Mean Anything?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#49 Are client certificates really secure?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#52 Are client certificates really secure?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#1 Are client certificates really secure?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001k.html#34 A thought on passwords
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#4 Smart Card vs. Magnetic Strip Market
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#5 Smart Card vs. Magnetic Strip Market
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#94 Secret Key Infrastructure plug compatible with PKI
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002.html#39 Buffer overflow
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#7 Opinion on smartcard security requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#15 Opinion on smartcard security requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#22 Opinion on smartcard security requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#23 Opinion on smartcard security requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#44 Why?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#14 EMV cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002e.html#18 Opinion on smartcard security requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#23 Computers in Science Fiction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#45 Biometric Encryption: the solution for network intruders?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#38 Why is DSA so complicated?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#9 Biometric authentication for intranet websites?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#71 history of CMS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#84 history of CMS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#71 TCPA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#55 AADS, ECDSA, and even some TCPA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#71 history of CMS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002l.html#4 why is Kerberos better than this simpler replacement
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#14 fingerprint authentication
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#38 Convenient and secure eCommerce using POWF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#13 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#18 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#25 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#26 Help! Good protocol for national ID card?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#22 aads strawman/aSuretee at cardtech/securetech ID
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#18 Efficent Digital Signature Schemes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003e.html#57 Security in RADIUS (RFC2865)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#70 Simple resource protection with public keys
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#1 Two-factor authentication with SSH?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#29 electronic-ID and key-generation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#30 How is a smartcard created?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#61 Can you use ECC to produce digital signatures? It doesn't see
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003l.html#64 Can you use ECC to produce digital signatures? It doesn't see
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#5 Cryptoengines with usage accounting
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004j.html#2 Authenticated Public Key Exchange without Digital Certificates?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004p.html#53 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005i.html#10 Revoking the Root
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#2 X509 digital certificate for offline solution
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005o.html#3 The Chinese MD5 attack
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#11 Securing Private Key
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#32 AMD to leave x86 behind?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#37 Why are smart cards so dumb?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#40 Why are smart cards so dumb?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#25 Can anythink kill x86-64?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#57 DEC's Hudson fab
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#16 Gen 2 EPC Protocol Approved as ISO 18000-6C
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#48 Device Authentication - The answer to attacks lauched using stolen passwords?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#1 Greatest Software Ever Written?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#19 Greatest Software Ever Written?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#11 Why not 2048 or 4096 bit RSA key issuance?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006w.html#37 What does a patent do that copyright does not?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#7 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#28 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#12 Special characters in passwords was Re: RACF - Password rules
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007b.html#30 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#17 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#44 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007d.html#12 One Time Identification, a request for comments/testing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#53 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#55 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#12 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#13 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#35 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#39 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#42 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#43 My Dream PC -- Chip-Based
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#27 nouns and adjectives
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#31 nouns and adjectives

Windows Monitor or CUSP? [was ReJohn W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies]

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP? [was ReJohn W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies]
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Sun, Jul 8 2007 11:24 am
On Jul 5, 7:25 am, jmfbah...@aol.com wrote:
Congress did drop a piece of those laws...didn't they? And the result was the US S&L mess because Congress didn't included the checks and balances. Congress recently (two or three years ago, IIRC) repealed some kind of banking law that put in place back then which kept them from selling insurance. Now my mother gets calls from her bank to change her savings account into insurance.

the scenario was that there was a economic incentive package that included cutting the S&L reserve requirements in half from 8percent to 4percent.

the problem was with 4percent of assets coming available all at once, most of the people running the S&Ls didn't have any real experience in being able to do something that quickly (and find something to soak up so much assets really quickly)

wallstreet did put together "packages" and went out sold them to these S&Ls as quick, efficient place to move all those available assets.

One viewpoint was that most of the people running these S&Ls weren't all that sophisticated and were easily convinced to move large amounts of money into really risky investments ... i.e. they were bureaucrats more familiar with maintaining the status quo ... and found to require enormous amounts of protecting from themselves ... whenever there is rapid change and/or discontinuities and find themselves outside their previous experience.

Also, some analogy with lots of people that fall for the current internet get quick rich schemes. There are some more recent articles predicting that some of the hedge fund activities are going to be similar.

old long winded post that includes some discussion of adjustable rate mortages, S&L disaster, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay3.htm#riskm Thread Between Risk Management and Information Security

a couple previous discussions related to this subject
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006k.html#24 Value of an old IBM PS/2 CL57 SX Laptop
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#24 Securing financial transactions a high priority for 2007
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#12 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

Windows Monitor or CUSP?

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Monitor or CUSP?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, Jul 9 2007 9:43 am
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#43 Windows Monitor or CUSP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#45 Windows Monitor or CUSP?

recent item doing something similar:
Canadian Banks To Roll Out Remote Card Authentication
http://www.epaynews.com/index.cgi?survey=&ref=browse&f=view&id=118398


from above:
CAP and DPA are applications which enable cardholders to authenticate themselves on the Web by inserting their EMV cards in a smart card reader and generating a one-time passcode.

... snip ...

recent discussion about earlier (disastrous) attempts to deploy smartcard readers in the consumer market segment (which resulted in consensus in the financial community that smartcards weren't feasible in the consumer market segment)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game

in the wake of the deployment attempts, there was a detailed analysis of the causes (although facts didn't do much to help with the rapidly spreading impression that smartcard readers weren't practical in the consumer market segment). at the following annual smartcard conference, i went around to most of the booths asking if they were aware of the

1) rapidly growing reputation that smartcard readers weren't practical in the consumer market segment and

2) causes for the disastrous deployments

... and long running thread regarding (yes card) vulnerabilities of some specific cards (dating back to the 90s):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#yescard

computerworld 40 yr articles

From: lynn@garlic.com
Subject: computerworld 40 yr articles
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:44:17 -0700
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers

Computerworld's 40th Anniversary: 40 Years of Reporting on the IT Industry
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleTOC&articleId=9026378
The 10 IT People Who Mattered in the Past 40 Years (but You May Not Know Why)
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleTOC&articleId=295941

... from above:

1. Dan Bricklin
2. Jon Postel
3. Dennis Ritchie
4. Alan Shugart
5. Ted Codd
6. Ross Perot
7. John Cullinane
8. Bill Inmon
9. Whitfield Diffie
10. Carol Bartz

... snip ...
Tidbits and Timelines From the Past 40 Years
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=297837

The 10 Biggest Technology Flops of the Past 40 Years
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=295810

The Top 10 Products of the Past 40 Years
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleTOC&articleId=295678

40 Under 40: 40 Innovative IT People to Watch, Under the Age of 40
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleTOC&articleId=295891


Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 18:11:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
On Jul 9, 6:14 pm, Frank McCoy <mcc...@millcomm.com> wrote:
Yes, I still have stacks of 5in floppies I sometimes go back to for reference purposes; though I'll admit most of the stuff I look in them for, I've already transferred over to the hard-drive; now that I've got two 250-gig drives (One for backup).

relatively recent thread involving recovery of some number of 5.25in floppies.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#35 Turbo C 1.5 (1987)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#36 Turbo C 1.5 (1987)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#37 Turbo C 1.5 (1987)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#56 Turbo C 1.5 (1987)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#57 Turbo C 1.5 (1987)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#4 Turbo C 1.5 (1987)

IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 05:13:07 -0700
Subject: Re: IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE
On Jul 10, 6:02 am, Nick Spalding <spald...@iol.ie> wrote:
There was also the even smaller BOS, Basic Operating System, which loaded off a deck of cards rather less than two inches thick. There is probably one up in my loft somewhere.

cp67 (and later vm370) used a slightly modified version of the BPS (basic programming system) "loader". In cp67, it was the only routine that they didn't actually ship source for.

One of the things that i eventually got around to doing as undergraduate was implemented "pageable" kernel for cp67. basically i moved "low" useage kernel routines to a contiguous area after the "fixed" kernel portions ... and did a hack that used paging mechanism to move routines into & out of memory. although it was using paging mechanism to move the stuff ... the "paged" code actually ran w/o translate (virtual memory) turned on ... so the execution portion was treated more like OS transient area execution (except any portion of pageable memory was available).

Since it didn't run with translate on ... all the code had to be broken into 4k byte code segments (again analogous to OS 2k transient areas).

so the most obvious first candidate for pageable kernel was (cp67) "CONSOLE" which was about a 20k byte single routine with the all the cp67 "commands:" I had to break "console" into 4k code segments, aligned on 4k/page boundaries. (cp67 kernel was growing and starting to push over 80k bytes ... on a 256k 360/67, that left around 130k bytes for paging, picking up nearly 30k bytes was better than 20percent improvement in pageable real storage).

The problem was that as a single routine ... all of CONSOLE addresses were internal (i.e. decode the command and branch directly to that routine). Breaking CONSOLE into multiple routines required making lots of new external address constants ("ESD").

This hit a problem with the BPS loader which had a fixed table that handled a maximum of 256 ESD entries ... and breaking console into separate routines pushed the number of cp67 kernel ESD entries past 256 ESD entries. Until I found a copy of BPS source, there had to be enormous contortions to get around the 256 ESD limit (the pageable kernel support didn't ship as part of standard cp67 product ... but did ship as part of vm370).

lots of past posts mentioning BPS loader:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#9 ** Old Vintage Operating Systems **
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#135 sysprog shortage - what questions would you ask?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#23 Linux IA-64 interrupts [was Re: Itanium benchmarks ...]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#26 HELP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#27 HELP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002f.html#47 How Long have you worked with MF's ? (poll)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#35 Computers in Science Fiction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#62 PLX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#71 bps loader, was PLX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#72 bps loader, was PLX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#73 Home mainframes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#56 cost of crossing kernel/user boundary
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#62 cost of crossing kernel/user boundary
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#3 Alpha performance, why?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003f.html#26 Alpha performance, why?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#23 Tools -vs- Utility
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#33 A POX on you, Dennis Ritchie!!!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#11 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#45 command line switches [Re: [REALLY OT!] Overuse of symbolic constants]
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004o.html#9 Integer types for 128-bit addressing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#10 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#16 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#52 Software for IBM 360/30
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#50 Various kinds of System reloads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005t.html#40 FULIST
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006.html#40 All Good Things
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#44 Binder REP Cards (Was: What's the linkage editor really wants?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#5 virtual memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#64 Large Computer Rescue
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#30 Why these original FORTRAN quirks?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#50 Where can you get a Minor in Mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006v.html#5 Why these original FORTRAN quirks?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#1 IBM S/360 series operating systems history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#60 Scholars needed to build a computer history bibliography

Computer Clocks

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **
From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 04:46:50 -0700
Subject: Re: Computer Clocks
On Jul 10, 7:21 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
But I happened to see the OpenVMS article on Wikipedia, and it amused me that they had a timer with 100 nanosecond granularity.

Since it was 63 bits long (why go to the trouble of being unsigned) it won't run out until the year 31,086. This gives one a warm, fuzzy feeling.

However, it did set me thinking.


370 timers (introduced with originatl 370 even before virtual memory) were 64bits ... there was time-of-day clock, clock comparator (could be set to interrupt when it match value in time-of-day clock) and interval timer (set to some value and decremented). Specification for the actual tic rate (lowest bit that actual tic'ed/changed was suppose to be interval on the order of typical instruction exectuion.

time-of-day clock was spec'ed that bit 51 was equivalent to decrementing once a microsecond which made bit 31 slightly more than a second ... and had cycle about 143yrs.. original epoch was suppose to start at the first moment of the (last) century (there was some issues whether that was 1900 or 1901) ... although lots of places starting out setting zero to start of 1970.

it has since been expanded to 104 bits to allow for high resolution (i.e. 64bits provided for slightly better than nanosecond resolution i.e. was 1mic/2**12 now 1mic/2**52)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/4.6?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320

format:
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/4.6.1.1?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320

original 370 store clock instruction (64 bits)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/7.5.126?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320

newer store clock extended (128 bits, i.e. some additional bits over the 104)
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DZ9ZR003/7.5.127?SHELF=DZ9ZBK03&DT=20040504121320

i've sporadically claimed that one of the reasons for slow-start window-based pacing was because of the terrible timers available on large number of the platforms of the period. we had done rate-based pacing which provided much better control. some related comments in thread from this recent post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#37 FastTCP Commercialized Into An FTP Appliance

IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:31:40 -0700
Subject: Re: IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE
On Jul 11, 10:05 am, "Russ" <r...@holsclaw.nyet> wrote:
In regular 360-mode, the card reader had no such timing dependencies. Instead, if you wanted to base stacker-selection on something found on the card, you were supposed to use the "Read-no-feed" and "Feed with Stacker-select" commands. However, most programs used the default "Read-Feed-Stacker-select" CCW, which identified the destination stacker right up front. OS/360 fans may recall that HASP always put the cards into stacker 2, where they were slightly easier to grab, and would separate them from cards spit out when pressing the NPRO (non-process run-out) button, which put the cards into stacker 1. Even when using a non-HASP system, it was possible to specify the destination stacker in JCL, although few people seemed to know about this.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#57 IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE

my first student programming job was ported 1401 MPIO (unit-record<->tape front end for univ. 709) to 360/30. the 360/30 ran MPIO perfectly fine in 1401 hardware emulation mode ... so i somewhat assume that the exercise was part of the univ. getting experience for transition to 360.

recent ref/post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#73 Operating systems are old and busted

i would assemble under os/360 ... and eventually had about a box of cards (2000) .... i got to design and implement my own interrupt handler, device drivers, monitor, storage manager, etc. I had conditional assemblies for two versions, 1) "stand-alone" that would be loaded with the BPS loader and 2) under os/360. The "stand-alone" option took around 25 minutes to assemble. The os/360 option took almost an hour ... since there were five DCB macros and for that version of os/ 360 on 360/30 took the assembler 5-6 minutes to expand each DCB macro. The bells & whistles of the stand-alone version was that it could concurrently do reader->tape and tape->printer/punch.

I then got roped into doing some code for student class scheduling. The student class information was on cards .... which i would read into the middle stacker on the 2540. There were five stackers on 2540 ... two each for the reader and punch ... and a middle stacker that could be fed from both. As each class schedule card was processed ... if it was found to have an error ... a card would be "punched" immediately behind the card in error. The class schedule cards were standard manila ... while the "error" indicator punch cards had yellow stripe across the top. Afterwards in the trays of cards, it was easy to identify the class schedule cards with errors by the periodic yellow edge card that could be seen in the card trays.

for other drift ... q&d html conversion for old gcard ios3270
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html

read/punch CCW
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html#23

printer control chars
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html#9
printer CCW
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html#24

various device sense bytes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/gcard.html#17

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

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From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:37:57 -0700
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
On Jul 12, 8:06 am, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
And, worse than that, it wasn't the case that the sex of a DB25 connector always, invariably, indicated which way pins 2 and 3 would be wired on it. Apparently, the standard really only applied to which way pins 2 and 3 should be wired, and the sex of the connector could be chosen to be whatever was considered less breakable.

for lots of x-over with another thread on subject of financial institution fraud countermeasures ... attempts were made to deploy smartcards and smartcard readers in the 1999/2000 time-frame into the consumer market segment. these smartcard readers met the pc/sc standard (at the time only supporting serial port) ... and resulted in enormous disasters (consumers attempting to figure a new serial port attachment device) ... which in turn led to the wide-spread belief in the finanical sector (which spread to other sectors) that smartcards (as strong authentication devices) weren't viable in the consumer market segment.

Now a lot of this could been avoided with a little bit of institutional knowledge being spread around.

1) in the early/mid 90s, the motivation for financial institutions to move their online banking to the internet was their enormous support costs related to dial-in modem operations. it required their own dial-up modem operations on the server side, supplying custom software on the client/consumer side ... including modem drivers (with all the support implications). one online banking presentation from the period claimed that they were supporting something like 65 different software (serial port) modem drivers ... different platforms, different operating systems, etc; not to mention all the customer support issues around helping a customer correctly install and operate a serial port modem. transitioning to internet met that nearly all of that hassle was turned over to the platform vendors and the ISPs (who then could amortize the expense across all online access, not just online banking).

2) late 90s, one of the prime motivations behind moving to USB was the enormous problems with existing serial port operation.

recent thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:46:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#60 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

we were fairly far along with a major platform vendor to address all the problems mentioned in the above ... in part, by including an AADS chip
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads

with every box shipped (module the traditional card people not being able to think outside the box) ... that was before there was a major corporate upheaval at the vendor and a lot of the people that we were dealing with, either went away or were re-assigned.

and for even more drift:

10 E-Commerce Events That Shook the Last 10 Years
http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/58275.html

and other drift ...

New URL highlighting feature in FireFox 3 aims to make phishing harder
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070711-new-features-in-firefox

i've noticed this in the nightly builds for the last week or so.

random selected posts from over the years describing the problem that the above attempts to address:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay12.htm#3 Confusing business process, payment, authentication and identification
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm20.htm#31 The summer of PKI love
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#50 DNSSEC to be strangled at birth
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm26.htm#51 The One True Identity -- cracks being examined, filled, and rotted out from the inside
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#30 A secure Internet requires a secure network protocol
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#26 Can I create my own SSL key?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#45 Digital ID
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006d.html#29 Caller ID "spoofing"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#79 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#9 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

UK computer history gets new home

From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:57:17 -0700
Subject: UK computer history gets new home
... new item

UK computer history gets new home
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6291422.stm

from above:
Plans are taking shape to set up a museum that celebrates Britain's role in the origins of the digital age.

The National Museum of Computing will be based at Bletchley Park where World War II code breakers built the first recognisably modern computers.


... snip ...

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:12:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
On Jul 12, 9:37 am, l...@garlic.com wrote:
recent thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#60 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#61 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

for a little more topic drift

McNealy calls for smart cards to help security
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,64

from above:
Privacy is dead following the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, according to Sun Microsystems Inc. CEO Scott McNealy. In a keynote session yesterday at the Gartner Symposium/ITxpo 2001 here, McNealy predicted that the attacks will usher in greater attention to security technology. In turn, privacy will suffer even more than it already has at the hands of technology, he said."I'm a huge proponent of a national ID card," McNealy said, noting that several years ago he had said, "Privacy is dead, get over it".

... snip ...

as the previous posts mention ... hardware tokens for authentication in the consumer market segment might have been further along if there hadn't been some disastrous deployments nearly a decade ago ... they managed to avoid drawing on (ignore) any experience from early work involving deployments involving serial ports.

note that much of security is actually dependent on authentication, not identification. that is one of the serious flaws that was made with x.509 identity digital certificates in the early 90s ... confusing identification with authentication. eventually it came to be realized that x.509 identity digital certificates, grossly overloaded with personal information represented significant privacy and liability concerns.

there was then efforts to retrench to something called relying-party- only digital certificates ... where all the personal information had been eliminated ... but then it was trivial to demonstrate that the rpo-certificates were redundant and superfluous, that authentication could be done w/o needing the certificate at all
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#rpo

this was further highlighted by the fact that one of the primary targets for rpo digital certificates were financial transactions ... where the typical (redundant and superfluous) rpo digital certificate represented a 100-times payload bloat (i.e. even with rpo digital certificate, the typical digital certificate payload overhead was on the order of 100-times larger than the typical payment transaction size)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subpubkey.html#bloat

IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:58:57 -0700
Subject: Re: IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE
On Jul 13, 2:50 pm, "Charlie Gibbs" <cgi...@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
I never was able to understand how they managed to make the assembler run so slowly. There are some forms of originality which I hope I

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#57 IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#59 IBM System/360 DOS still going strong as Z/VSE

the folklore i heard is that the guy originally given the task of implementing the op-code lookup, was told that it had to be done in 256 bytes total (both code and data) ... as a result the op-code lookup table had to be kept on disk and piece meal reread for every statement.

it was eventually rewritten and ran much faster

in the early 70s, i wrote a pli program that would analyze assembler listing ... creating an abstract representation of the instruction flow, branching, register and variable use. it would look for things like register use before setting. it would also generate a psuedo-code representation of the assembler program.

misc. past posts with reference to the analysis program
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#12 360 "OS" & "TSS" assemblers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#41 Domainatrix - the final word
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000d.html#36 Assembly language formatting on IBM systems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#21 REXX still going strong after 25 years
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004k.html#36 Vintage computers are better than modern crap !
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005d.html#72 [Lit.] Buffer overruns
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#45 IBM's POWER6
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006r.html#24 A Day For Surprises (Astounding Itanium Tricks)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#53 Is the teaching of non-reentrant HLASM coding practices ever defensible?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006t.html#9 32 or even 64 registers for x86-64?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#32 To RISC or not to RISC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#33 Assembler question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#41 Is this true? (Were gotos really *that* bad?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#21 "The Elements of Programming Style"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006x.html#30 "The Elements of Programming Style"

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

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From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:18:27 -0700
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
<winston19842...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Bollocks! I remember working for a credit union with online banking back in '95. They supported one software platform via their "PC Online Banking", Windows 3.1/95, and let Windows manage the hardware.

there were numerous financial institution case studies of the costs of online banking in the early to mid-90s ... typically proprietary software supporting a number of different platforms ... and not unusual to have something like 65 different modem drivers as part of that proprietary software. Moving to a browser/internet paradigm eliminated that whole proprietary software management and support ... as well as the associated help desk and customer support costs.

an old bai report that makes mention of the earlier era of proprietary software online banking and the advantages of moving to browser/internet paradigm
http://www.bai.org/bankingstrategies/1998-mar-apr/payoff/

however, the more detailed analysis did make note that while the move from proprietary to internet was an enormous cost savings ... it did introduce some new security issues.

note that a big part of the savings was the enormous cost and expense associated with supporting the serial port paradigm (specifically the modems).

later, there was an effort to introduce smartcards and smartcard readers as part of home banking and electronic payments. somewhat because, at the time, PC/SC only supported serial port ... all of the smartcard readers that were provided to customers were serial port implementations.

partially because of the lack of awareness of the significant serial port issues involved in the earlier online banking ... as well as industry effort to move to USB ... again in large part because of serial port issues .... these attempts at deploying smartcards in the consumer market place turned into major disasters. It spawned a wide-spread reputation that smartcards were not practical in the consumer marketplace.

the smartcard reader programs had enormous costs associated with consumer troubles attempting to install the (serial port) smartcard readers (and the resulting trouble calls). One deployment estimated that they were avg. over $70 in trouble call expense. One business with several thousand PCs estimated that it would avg. $500/PC to retrofit (serial port) card readers to all their machines (different hardware, different platforms, different configurations, different operating systems, etc).

The significant issues associated with serial port operation (as well as all the proprietary software) was significant motivation behind moving online banking to browser/internet paradigm. However, that extensive body of experience didn't prevent the deployment disaster a few years later for serial port smartcard readers.

ref:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#34 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#35 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#38 The bank fraud blame game
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#60 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#61 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#63 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

We had been doing a lot of internet related stuff in the 80s ... nsfnet backbone, etc some old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet

and was doing lots of financial related consulting in the 90s ... and was also brought in to consult with a small client/server startup that wanted to do payment transaction on their server. This small client/server startup had this technology call SSL ... and the resulting effort has since frequently come to be referred to as electronic commerce ... misc. past posts about that activity
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

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From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:24:49 -0700
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
On Jul 13, 7:18 pm, l...@garlic.com wrote:
the existing programs had enormous costs associated with consumer troubles attempting to install the (serial port) smartcard reads and the associated trouble calls. One deployment estimated that they were avg. over $70 in trouble call expense. One business with several thousand PCs estimated that it would avg. $500/PC to retrofit (serial port) card readers to all their machines (different hardware, different platforms, different configurations, different operating systems, etc).

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#65 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

aka that $500/pc didn't include the cost of the smartcard reader or the cost of the software ... the $500/PC was just people time to get each smartcard operational and working ... almost totally attributed to serial port issues.

least structured statement in a computer language. And the winner

Refed: **, - **, - **
From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: least structured statement in a computer language. And the winner
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 04:16:03 -0700
On Jul 17, 8:05 am, Morten Reistad <fi...@last.name> wrote:
"It shouldn't be like this" was a comment I heard a lot, because my "COBOL" hints worked _very_ well in speeding up code, but they were lousy COBOL. They were directives to the machine that executed COBOL, which seems to be dirty for the right COBOL people. (And I probably wasted some 4341 sales for Lynn's sales people.)

old email referencing working with early 43xx machines ... even before they had been announced and/or shipped (4341 code name E4)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#43xx

and quite awhile after no longer being associated with the 43xx vendor, doing some performance work on a large, highly optimized 450k line cobol application
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#24 Curiousity: CPU % for COBOL program
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#50 Where can you get a Minor in Mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#51 Where can you get a Minor in Mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006u.html#52 Where can you get a Minor in Mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#47 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#48 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#51 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#20 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

that ran on 40-plus something CECs, each CEC configured out to something like $30m per. I had initially offered to do the work as a percentage of the savings (which worked out to be about 15percent across the $1.5b something complex)

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

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From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Date: 20 Jul 2007 07:56:20 -0700
jmfbahciv writes:
So far, most of your posts have had to do with the bit movements between card swipes and payees. Have you spent any time watching the customer who is doing those card swipes? It doesn't matter what flavor of card it is; note the demographics (I think that's the correct word) of the people who have problems.

do you believe that performing a cardswipe at point-of-sale terminal is any more difficult than getting a driver's license ... and/or are there large percentage of people on the roads not licensed and/or qualified to drive? Are there large percentage of people doing cardswipe operations not qualified to perform financial transactions (or even understand how credit and debit transactions have to be dealt with). POS terminals are possibly orders of magnitude safer than driving an automobile. Are we heading for a completely child-proof environment where normal directions and instructions have to be lowered from 7th grade level to possibly 3rd grade level (that we can't even expect adult citizens to be able to operate at grade school level?)

some of that was involved in the walmart/merchant legal action earlier this decade ... and what was the default for the card swipe terminals ... and how that affected interchange fees (there was a settlement for a couple billion). misc. past posts about the walmart/merchant legal action
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#16 AMD to leave x86 behind?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#17 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#47 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#59 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

recent post referencing EU financial institutions getting less than 10percent of bottom line from payment transaction operation while US financial institutions getting nearly 40percent
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#39 a fraud is a sale, Re: The bank fraud blame game

and latest in ongoing interchange saga:

Testimony from Today's Credit Card Interchange Hearing Now Available
http://www.paymentsnews.com/2007/07/testimony-from-.html
Oversight ... hearings
http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=355
Merchants Call Interchange Fee Practices Violation of Antitrust Laws
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20070719/pl_usnw/merchants_call_interchange_fee_practices_violation_of_antitrust_laws
A House Antitrust Panel Becomes the Latest Interchange Battlefield
http://www.digitaltransactions.net/newsstory.cfm?newsid=1450

old posts about half the 18yr olds (suposedly highschool graduate age) are functionally illiterate and couldn't be expected to pass simple 7th grade math test
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#45 How will current AI/robot stories play when AIs are real?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#28 Offshore IT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#45 Offshore IT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003i.html#55 Offshore IT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#33 [IBM-MAIN] NY Times editorial on white collar jobs going
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#42 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#18 The SOB that helped IT jobs move to India is dead!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#18 Low Bar for High School Students Threatens Tech Sector
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#48 Mozilla v Firefox
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005g.html#43 Academic priorities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#20 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#63 DEC's Hudson fab
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#7 U.S. Cedes Top Spot in Global IT Competitiveness
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#24 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#79 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#31 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#51 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#80 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#85 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#10 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#30 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#34 IBM Unionization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#42 IBM Unionization

women as computer operators in the 1960s

From: lynn@garlic.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: women as computer operators in the 1960s
Date: 20 Jul 2007 08:12:09 -0700
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
I've never been talking about the 60s. I was in school in the 60s. In the early 70s at CHMC in Boston, there were terminals for patient scheduling and probably billing and suchlike, but the secretaries didn't have them. Transcription had a couple of IBM Mag (Tape?) units that were jealously guarded by the transcriptionists. In the mid-70s at Abraham Lincoln School of Medicine (U of Ill.) Department of Internal Medicine, we had a departmental xerox, but no computers (I can't remember whether the business office did, they might have had a terminal). None of the secretaries had computer access, not even the coding clerk. In the early '80s at the U of MN, in my department aside from a single shared IBM Mag II for WP, none of the secretaries had computer access. (Again, don't remember about the business office.)

across the charles in cambridge ... 545 tech sq ... both cp67/cms (4th flrt 545 tech sq) and multics (5th flr 545 tech sq) ... both somewhat derivative of ctss work.

cp67/cms ... 4th flr
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech

had cms editor and script (dot formatting commands) ... output on either 2741/selectric or 1403 printer.

ctss formating command
http://mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/AH.9.01.html

that cms script command patterned after.

then in 1969, "G", "M" & "L" invented gml at the science center
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#sgml

the precusor to sgml, html, xml (aka all the "markup" stuff) ... support for gml was added to script command ... possible to even have both "dot" commands and gml tags intermixed.

early gml/sgml history by "G" (of "G" "M" & "L")
http://www.sgmlsource.com/history/roots.htm

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 21 Jul 2007 18:03:48 -0700
Morten Reistad <first@last.name> writes:
The Giro system is generally a lot cheaper to operate, because the "push" nature means you don't have to safegauard every level som much. You start with a verified deposit that could be withdrawn as cash; not a claim that will have to be verified, re-verified etc.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#68 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

lots of past posts about "naked transaction" metaphor and problem that there are possibly hundreds of points of vulnerabilities/threats ... vis-a-vis armoring the transactions:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

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From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 23 Jul 2007 10:20:31 -0700
Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
lots of past posts about "naked transaction" metaphor and problem that there are possibly hundreds of points of vulnerabilities/threats ... vis-a-vis armoring the transactions:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#68 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#70 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

more on harvesting information, much of which is then used for fraudulent transactions:

Threatwatch: how much to MITM, how quickly, how much lost
https://financialcryptography.com/mt/archives/000941.html

and some specific references:

Man-in-the-middle attacks on the rise
http://www.itpro.co.uk/security/news/119212/maninthemiddle-attacks-on-the-rise

from above:
"A lot of the attacks you hear about are just the tip of the iceberg. Banks often won't even tell an affected customer that they have been a victim of these man-in-the-middle attacks," said Franklin, adding that kits that guide cybercriminals through setting up a man-in-the-middle attack are now so popular they can be bought for as little as $500 on the black market now.

... snip ...

past posts mentioning man-in-the-middle attacks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#mitmattack

past posts mentioning harvesting information, primarily for re-use in fraudulent transactions.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#harvest

past posts with mention of general fraud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#fraud

and ....

Is IT losing the battle against DNS attacks?
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9027345

from above:
Few things can strike fear into the heart of the IT department like an attack on a company's Domain Name System servers. That may explain why companies are spending so much time to deploy myriad, complex security measures to keep their DNS protected from attackers.

... snip ...

recent post with related reference to DNS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#33 Even worse than UNIX

other posts mentioning DNS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#37 Who's afraid of Mallory Wolf?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#43 Mockapetris agrees w/Lynn on DNS security - (April Fool's day??)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay11.htm#45 Mockapetris agrees w/Lynn on DNS security - (April Fool's day??)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay12.htm#18 DNS inventor says cure to net identity problems is right under our nose
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aepay12.htm#36 DNS, yet again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#10 X.500, LDAP Considered harmful Was: OCSP/LDAP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm13.htm#36 How effective is open source crypto? (bad form)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm14.htm#1 Who's afraid of Mallory Wolf?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#11 Resolving an identifier into a meaning
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm15.htm#15 Resolving an identifier into a meaning
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#31 Is that secure : <form action="https" from a local HTML page ?

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

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From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 23 Jul 2007 10:53:02 -0700
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#68 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#70 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#71 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

and:
Identity theft has replaced drug dealing as No. 1 crime in the U.S. And thieves often aren't caught.
http://www.pennlive.com/news/expresstimes/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1185077364273960.xml&coll=2

Identity theft soars to top of modern crime list
http://www.gatewaynewspapers.com/signalitem/focus/84274/


Inside the High-Tech Hunt for a Missing Silicon Valley Legend

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Inside the High-Tech Hunt for a Missing Silicon Valley Legend
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 23 Jul 2007 10:57:35 -0700
Inside the High-Tech Hunt for a Missing Silicon Valley Legend
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/15-08/ff_jimgray

... misc. past posts mentioning system/r and/or working with Jim
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr

instructions for computers

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: instructions for computers
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 23 Jul 2007 11:50:17 -0700
Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> writes:
Another point is that the volume of checks is much lower. A huge number of transactions take place now with ATM machines and credit cards with all the human data-entry taking place at POS, where the customer can check it.

can you say "check21" ... volume wasn't actually dropping off as much as they wanted; check21 truncates the paper early at origin
http://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/truncation/
http://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/truncation/faqs.htm

there have been some recent comments that this has turned into quite a thriving business

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

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From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 23 Jul 2007 11:51:58 -0700
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#71 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#72 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

Internet-Banking Market Spurs Growing Demand For Handheld Readers
http://www.cardtechnology.com/article.html?id=20070716UIU6GVXQ

this is somewhat consequence of the disastrous deployment attempt of serial port cardreaders and the subsequent opinion that chipcards weren't practical in the consumer market
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#60 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#63 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#65 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#66 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

earlier thread discussing hand-held readers:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#43 Windows Monitor or CUSP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#45 Windows Monitor or CUSP?

and then there is:

HSBC says no to handheld devices for personal online banking customers
http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/security-products/authentication/news/index.cfm?newsid=3088

and slightly related chipcard news:

Smart Card Industry Continues To Lobby For Chip-Based Driver's Licenses In U.S.
http://www.cardtechnology.com/article.html?id=20070719H3B1IMEJ
RFID Tagged Driver's License Angers Privacy Advocates
http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/58414.html

somewhat related is the AADS chip strawman we worked on in late 90s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#aads

even had to walk the fab producing the chips in a bunny suit. recent reference to wearing bunny suit
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#59 ANN: Microsoft goes Open Source

PSI MIPS

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From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PSI MIPS
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 24 Jul 2007 04:40:00 -0700
howard@ibm-main.lst (Howard Brazee) writes:
I don't see a lot of companies considering "new application (written from scratch)", at the level that a mainframe is a consideration. Enterprise systems like that start off as purchases.

Which means that IBM's most significant customers should be companies providing enterprise level software. Then those companies can show their customers that their systems will work with IBM, Sun, server farms, or whatever - and supply performance benchmarks for the end-users.


a lot of stuff written for mainframe involves business critical dataprocessing ... which is significantly more effort than a standard application. our rule-of-thumb has been that to take a well-tested, well-debugged application and turn it into business critical operation takes 4-10 times the original total effort (whether it is mainframe or not). In fact, mainframe operations tends to have some services that makes turning stuff into business critical operation easier (i.e. compared to having to invent stuff on some of the other platforms).

we had been called in to do some consulting with a small client-server startup that wanted to do payment transactions on their server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

they had this technology they called SSL ... and the resulting effort is now frequently referred to as electronic commerce.

part of the effort was taking something called the payment gateway application and deploying it as a service. the "service" aspect was at least 10 times the effort as doing the base application.

PSI MIPS

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From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PSI MIPS
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 24 Jul 2007 07:09:44 -0700
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#76 PSI MIPS

oh, other recent posts mentioning the 4-10 times effort to turn well-tested, well-debugged normal application into business critical operation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#37 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007g.html#51 IBM to the PCM market(the sky is falling!!!the sky is falling!!)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#78 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#10 The top 10 dead (or dying) computer skills

in the payment gateway scenario
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#gateway

in addition to the standard business critical stuff ... we had to do some amount of compensating processes because the basic infrastructure lacked the necessary facilities.

some of this drew on our experience having done the ha/cmp product
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp

we there had been a detailed vulnerability and assurance study ... included the security type stuff ... but was a general study ... all the type of stuff you would expect from business critical operation ... misc. posts mentioning assurance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#assurance

for other topic drift ... old email about also doing ha/cmp scale-up work
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

and my wife having been con'ed into serving term in pok in charge of loosely-coupled architecture ... where she had put together the peer-coupled shared data architecture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#shareddata

which, except for ims hot-standby, didn't see a lot of uptake until sysplex.

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

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From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 24 Jul 2007 16:55:04 -0700
Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#71 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#72 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

Internet-Banking Market Spurs Growing Demand For Handheld Readers
http://www.cardtechnology.com/article.html?id=20070716UIU6GVXQ

this is somewhat consequence of the disastrous deployment attempt of serial port cardreaders and the subsequent opinion that chipcards weren't practical in the consumer market
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#60 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#63 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#65 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#66 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

earlier thread discussing hand-held readers:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#43 Windows Monitor or CUSP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#45 Windows Monitor or CUSP?

and then there is:

HSBC says no to handheld devices for personal online banking customers
http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/security-products/authentication/news/index.cfm?newsid=3088


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#75 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

and so it is little wonder that (24jul2007) ...

Banks Lag in Strong Authentication
http://www.darkreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=129868

EU finread terminal standard (for home/consumer use)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#finread

was just starting to come along strong just about the time same time disastrous serial port reader deployment attempts were starting to hit the fan ... and there was big retrenchment.

I've also asserted in the past that the cancelation of a smartcard operating system effort (in the consumer marketplace) about the same time was also because of the spreading impression that smartcards weren't practical in the consumer marketplace (again because of the disastrouse serial port reader deployment attempts).

PSI MIPS

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PSI MIPS
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers
Date: 25 Jul 2007 05:36:47 -0700
timothy.sipples@ibm-main.lst (Timothy Sipples) writes:
Howard Brazee writes: > Trouble is, customers see this type of statistic and associate it with > the mainframe, not the application. Vendors selling applications on > *nix machines are careful not to disabuse them of that notion. > Or are they right and us wrong? Certainly lots of companies get by > with the lesser rigor of non-frame programs.

This is a really great observation, Howard. Here's another question:

4. Do your mainframe staff have a working concept of different application classifications based on differing quality levels of delivery? Or are they only able to follow processes and deploy at a single quality level ("super premium")? The mainframe technology is ideally suited to supporting different deployments at different quality levels, with different levels of testing and validation pre-production depending on the relative importance and significance to the business.

We (IT people) have to be flexible, ask a few questions, and understand whether it's a "fastpath" deployment for a "less critical" business function or not. And communicate back, in business language terms, to make sure people understand what's going on, what the choices are, and how to judge risk. One simple way you might start to incorporate this flexibility is to establish a "Medium Service Quality" (MSQ) LPAR. I think many people here are probably quite familiar with that basic idea and operate that way already. (Or "Bronze, Silver, Gold." Whatever naming works for you.)


the original post and followup ... which went to the newsgroup but not to the mailing list
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#76 PSI MIPS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#77 PSI MIPS

one of my other (extreme?) examples was when i did the resource manager
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare

where there was automated benchmarking process developed and the final cycle to validate and calibrate the resource manager involved over two thousand benchmarks that took three months elapsed time to run
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#benchmark

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 26 Jul 2007 05:43:51 -0700
jmfbahciv writes:
What do you think would happen when a bank gets all its assets pulled with a runaway program?

or runaway employee ... some topic drift ...

Financial Firms Beset by Employee Fraud
http://www.epaynews.com/index.cgi?survey=&ref=browse&f=view&id=11854405258370229160&block=

UK Business Leaders Decry Cyber Cop Inaction
http://www.epaynews.com/index.cgi?survey=&ref=browse&f=view&id=11854410298370229160&block=

slightly related recent thread:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#44 Threatwatch: how much to MITM, how quickly, how much lost
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#45 Threatwatch: how much to MITM, how quickly, how much lost

Disaster Planning Is Critical, but Pick a Reasonable Disaster
http://www.wired.com/politics/security/commentary/securitymatters/2007/07/securitymatters_0726

somewhat related recent postings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#76 PSI MIPS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#77 PSI MIPS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#78 PSI MIPS
on assurance
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#assurance
and ha/cmp
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
where we coined the terms disaster survivability (as contrast to disaster recovery) and geographic survivability
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#available

sysprog demand

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: sysprog demand
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 27 Jul 2007 09:46:22 -0700
edgould1948@ibm-main.lst (Ed Gould) writes:
I know at one point in my life I put in 100 hours a week for several years. However it was partially choice and demands for the job. Another point is that they don't get paid any OT. They also work in an extremely politicized environment where VP's scream and curse at each other and the name of the game is to screw your co-worker .

for slight topic drift
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#44 the Depression WWII

has reference to this recent study:

Reap what your ancestors sowed; Cheating has long-term consequences in the evolution of cooperation, finds a University of Texas at Austin biologist
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-07/uota-rwy070207.php

from above:
"There is a historical dimension to cooperation," says Dr. Sam Brown, the Human Frontier Science Foundation Fellow in the Section of Integrative Biology: "The act of a cooperator can continue to give benefits even after the cooperator is dead. Conversely, cheating will have consequences in the future."

... snip ...

mainframe developer = permanent position - Dublin Ireland

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: mainframe developer = permanent position - Dublin Ireland
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 28 Jul 2007 14:20:57 -0700
Rahul Mohandass <maheshmohan1982@gmail.com> writes:
Extensive development/ production support experience in PL1 and DB2

one of the people mentioned in this meeting
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#15

claimed to have done much of the work for tech transfer of sql/ds from endicott to STL/bld90 for DB2

then again, i was involved in some amount of the tech transfer of system/r from SJR/bldg28 to endicott for sql/ds. misc. past posts mentioning system/r
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#systemr

note that while endicott is (almost) on the east coast ... bldg28 and bldg90 are only about 10miles apart (i even use to periodicly commute between the two on bicycle .. home to bldg28, bldg28 to bldg90 and back home)

old email with only slight topic drift ... including mentions of customers being told to call me with any questions about relational and/or system/r:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#email801006
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#email801006c
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#email801016

for other topic drift ... i got saddled with doing some debugging for CICS. the univ. library had one of those ONR grants for digital catalogs and got selected to be one of the original CICS beta-test sites ... and I got responsibility for some amount of getting it up and running ... misc. past posts mentioning cics (and/or bdam)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bdam

the univ. was also selected for a demo-site for pre-release copy of PLI. It had been loaded from tape to a univ. DASD for part of the demo that lasted a couple of days. At the end of the demo period the DASD was erased. Later there was some suggestion that somebody at the univ. may have made a copy of the files.

for a little more topic drift, posts in mainframe thread about perception that it costs more to develop applications on mainframes than on other platforms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#76 PSI MIPS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#77 PSI MIPS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#79 PSI MIPS

in part because mainframes tend to be platform selected for business critical applications and business critical applications tend to cost more to develop. in fact, developing business critical apps on mainframes tend to less costly, since mainframe platforms tend to have more built in features for supporting business critical operation (features that don't tend to be found in other platforms and therefor would have to be re-invented as part of each application).

even more topic drift on this theme in this thread from a financial crypto blog:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#47 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#48 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#49 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#50 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 28 Jul 2007 16:30:49 -0700
kkt <kkt@zipcon.net> writes:
No, I think it's state-by-state, because in Washington State no one has ever used one of my checks as a debit card. It was a shock when I was visiting another state and a cashier handed my check back to me.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#74 instructions for computers

general check21 thing is federal law and federal reserve ... all kinds of check truncation operations.

wiki reference on check 21 act:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_21_Act
ABA check 21 reference
http://www.aba.com/About+ABA/CheckTruncationAct.htm
FDIC check 21 faq
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/resources/21actfaq/

from above:
The following are responses to frequently asked questions about the Check Clearing for the 21st Century Act (Check 21 Act). These responses are based on the changes to the Federal Reserve Board's Check Clearing for the 21st Century Act (Check 21 Act). These responses are based on the changes to the Federal Reserve Board's (FRB) Regulation CC and intended to be a resource for financial institutions, rather than official legal interpretation.

... snip ...

federal reserve compliance with regulation CC
http://www.federalreserve.gov/Pubs/regcc/regcc.htm

above reference also lists common reasons that financial institutions have failed to comply with reg-CC

some other misc. check 21 references Check 21 | The course for intelligent-deposit ATMs
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article.php?id=9086
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article.php?id=9007&prc=7&page=38
Check 21 | B of A adds more envelope-free ATMs
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article.php?id=9086&na=1
Check 21
http://www.atmmarketplace.com/research.php?rc_id=7

for other topic drift, wiki article on seafirst:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seafirst_Corporation

up until the name change, i used to carry a seafirst card that had a small embossing "since 1966". note in the wiki article ... there are some that claim that BofA/Nations in 1998 wasn't so much a merger but a take-over by Nations.

Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 31 Jul 2007 18:17:57 -0700
Lynn Wheeler <lynn@quake.garlic.com> writes:
up until the name change, i used to carry a seafirst card that had a small embossing "since 1966". note in the wiki article ... there are some that claim that BofA/Nations in 1998 wasn't so much a merger but a take-over by Nations.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#83 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use

apparently, not a lot of businesses still have the old-fashion card swipe machine that made an impression of the plastic embossing on paper receipt ... we are in the midst of long distance move and spending quite a bit of time camped out in motels at the destination. we effectively are only using cellphones and didn't directly notice that the telco land lines at the destination were out for two days last week. we are doing most of our meals in various local establishments ... and for two days last week many of them had notices at the entrances that they weren't taking credit cards (because of the land line outage). there were only one or two that still had the old (physical) card swipe/imprinting machines that embossed physical image of card on paper receipt.

PCI Compliance - Encryption of all non-console administrative access

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From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@quake.garlic.com>
Subject: Re: PCI Compliance - Encryption of all non-console administrative access.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 31 Jul 2007 18:35:39 -0700
pauls2272 writes:
Lots of them. I was in a meeting a couple weeks ago about the security people wanting just that - encrypt "data at rest" in databases that are already protected by RACF. The fun part is that many of the fields they want encrypted are keys on the databases...

for some topic drift ... part of the issue is that the majority of such compromises have involved data-at-rest ... not data-in-transit ... and lots of implementations don't provide the access control that may be found in mainframe installations ... so encrypting the data at risk might be viewed as compensating process for inadequate access control. the other part of it is that studies have something like 70 percent of such compromises have involved insiders (who already may have some level of access).

in the mid-90s, the x9a10 financial standard working group was given the requirement to preserve the integrity of the financial infrastructure for all retail payments. the result was x9.59 financial standard
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/x959.html#x959

part of the effort was detailed vulnerability studies of existing retail pyament infrastructures. one of the issues was that access to information from previous transactions was sufficient for attackers to be able to generate fraudulent transactions. As a result, the information from previous transactions (in the infrastructure at the time) required all transactions to be kept confidential and the information never divulged. On the other hand, information from transactions are required in dozens of business processes in order to process standard retail payments. there was an observation that the infrastructure has diametrically conflicting requirements ... and that even if the planet was buried under miles of crypto ... it would still be insufficient to prevent information leakage. the conflicting requirements is discussed in some detail in thread with the theme of "naked transactions"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subintegrity.html#payments

for more recent thread from financial crypto blog ... that touches on the subject:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#47 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#48 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#49 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#50 If your CSO lacks an MBA, fire one of you
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#52 more on firing your MBA-less CSO

The Unexpected Fact about the First Computer Programmer

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From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Unexpected Fact about the First Computer Programmer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 04 Aug 2007 18:24:04 -0700
ArarghMail807NOSPAM writes:
Actually, I would still be using a Novell server, if Novell had ever learned to write resonable windows type software. If they ever did, it was after they lost me as a customer. And, I couldn't STAND

... snip ...

misc. archeological DataHub (& provo) references
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#4a John Hartmann's Birthday Party
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000g.html#40 No more innovation? Get serious
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#32 Competitors to SABRE?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#42 IBM was/is: Imitation...
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#24 Alpha vs. Itanic: facts vs. FUD
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#38 Why is DSA so complicated?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#79 Coulda, Woulda, Shoudda moments?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#33 Over-the-shoulder effect
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#27 diffence between itanium and alpha
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#29 Why A.I. Is Brain-Dead
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#16 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#9 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#36 Intel strikes back with a parallel x86 design
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006l.html#39 Token-ring vs Ethernet - 10 years later
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#39 sorting
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#31 "The Elements of Programming Style"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#17 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#19 Is computer history taught now?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007j.html#49 How difficult would it be for a SYSPROG ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#21 The Development of the Vital IBM PC in Spite of the Corporate Culture of IBM

for a time during the seismic retrofit to bldg. 28, the DataHub room was a couple doors down from my office.

Why is not AIX ported to z/Series?

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From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Why is not AIX ported to z/Series?
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Date: 04 Aug 2007 18:50:50 -0700
richter125@ibm-main.lst (William Richter) writes:
Why doesn't IBM create a special purpose engine, similar to the IFL, for AIX. Lets call it an IFA. Would not AIX running on a zSeriers special purpose engines generate benefits similar to Linux on IFL's.

aixv2 (pc/rt) & aixv3 (rs/6000 and later power, power/pc, etc) were heavily customized for risc/801 architecture. actually aixv2 (for pc/rt) started out being done by the same company that had been contracted to port at&t unix to the pc for pc/ix. the romp chip (in the pc/rt) had originally been targeted as a displaywriter follow-on (cp.r operating system and pl.8 programming language). when that project was killed, it was decided to retarget the machine to the unix workstation market and the displaywriter people were tasked to build a psuedo virtual machine interface written in pl.8 and the company that had done the pc/ix work were contracted to do a port to the psuedo virtual machine interface being done by the displayewriter people.

palo alto had started a project to port BSD (berkeley) to 370 ... before it was released, it was decided to retarget it to pc/rt (originally designed to be a displaywriter followon)... and it was released as "AOS"

the palo alto group then ported ucla's locus to 370 and ps2. it was released as aix/370 and aix/ps2 .. locus provided support for all kinds of distributed file sharing as will as distributed process migration ... including some capability to transparently migrate processes across dissimilar architectures (sort of a superset of what SAA might have been striving for) ... aix/370 was upgraded with aix/esa.

misc. past posts mentioning aix/370/esa/etc.
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#2 IBM S/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#64 Old naked woman ASCII art
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#66 System/1 ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#8 IBM Linux
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#27 OCF, PC/SC and GOP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#44 Options for Delivering Mainframe Reports to Outside Organizat ions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#49 Options for Delivering Mainframe Reports to Outside Organizat ions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#20 VM-CMS emulator
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#22 Early AIX including AIX/370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#17 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001l.html#19 mainframe question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002b.html#36 windows XP and HAL: The CP/M way still works in 2002
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002d.html#31 2 questions: diag 68 and calling convention
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#54 Unisys A11 worth keeping?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#81 McKinley Cometh
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#36 Difference between Unix and Linux?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#67 Mainframe Spreadsheets - 1980's History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#45 Linux paging
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#8 IBM says AMD dead in 5yrs ... -- Microsoft Monopoly vs. IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#54 Filesystems
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#35 UNIX on LINUX on VM/ESA or z/VM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003h.html#45 Question about Unix "heritage"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003o.html#49 Any experience with "The Last One"?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004d.html#72 ibm mainframe or unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#41 Interesting read about upcoming K9 processors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004h.html#42 Interesting read about upcoming K9 processors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004n.html#30 First single chip 32-bit microprocessor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#37 A Glimpse into PC Development Philosophy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#38 CAS and LL/SC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004q.html#39 CAS and LL/SC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005b.html#22 The Mac is like a modern day Betamax
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005f.html#28 Where should the type information be: in tags and descriptors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005h.html#5 Single System Image questions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005j.html#26 IBM Plugs Big Iron to the College Crowd
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005m.html#4 [newbie] Ancient version of Unix under vm/370
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#14 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#26 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005q.html#49 What ever happened to Tandem and NonStop OS ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005s.html#34 Power5 and Cell, new issue of IBM Journal of R&D
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#61 DMV systems?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#8 Free to good home: IBM RT UNIX
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#24 Seeking Info on XDS Sigma 7 APL
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#11 Mainframe Jobs Going Away
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#32 V2X2 vs. Shark (SnapShot v. FlashCopy)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#38 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007c.html#14 How many 36-bit Unix ports in the old days?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007f.html#9 IBM S/360 series operating systems history
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#7 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies

VLIW pre-history

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VLIW pre-history
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 04 Aug 2007 18:32:08 -0700
jmfbahciv writes:
That's one of the reasons there used to be a farm report in the early morning on the radio. Dad used to travel to Chicago to buy futures (I think that's what they're called today) for coal, grain, etc. His family owned the coal, seed, and grain store in the town.

we spent yesterday driving thru kansas and missouri ... heard lots of farm reports

VLIW pre-history

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VLIW pre-history
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 05 Aug 2007 16:45:33 -0700
D.J. <alphmoe23@cableone.net> writes:
My grandparents had a battery powered radio in the 1930s. My mother's parents. Their neighborhood, about a mile from the center of town, didn't have electricity until just before WW2. My mother's weekly job was to take the batteries into town and get them charged. The radio, from her description, was a black box with several pairs of headphones and several dials. In the 1940s they purchased a table top radio that plugged into the mains they had installed in the house. The small one that looked like an arched window. The second one had a light up dial. The electric wires were on the ceiling, the house being older than that town had electricity. The indoor plumbing was installed years after the house was built as well. A hallway was turned into a full bathroom; flushing loo, tub with shower, sink for washing hands; probably around 1945.

house in the background of the photo (me at 8yrs) in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#18 Scholars needed to build a computer history bibliography

never did get indoor plumbing. previous post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#17 Scholars needed to build a computer history bibliography

has reference/anecdote to outdoor plumbing yrs later when we were visiting and my daughter was about the same age that i was in the picture.

VLIW pre-history

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: VLIW pre-history
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 05 Aug 2007 17:00:24 -0700
jmfbahciv writes:
Are you settled now?

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#84 Poll: oldest computer thing you still use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#88 VLIW pre-history

some last minute details delaying moving household goods in for another week or two (will have to survive in temp. qrtrs and just a laptop with sporadic connection)

Combining VM list threads

From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:35:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Combining VM list threads
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Gabe Goldberg wrote:
There's

SET SHARE RELATIVE

and

VM's 35 Birthday Celebration and 2007 Knights of VM

and

SHARE: Final chairbears needed (ribbon wearer time!!)

in which phsiii said

So bring your family...I am!

I guess he's "SET SHARE RELATIVE". So should anyone using family vacation as excuse to not be there to chair sessions, hmmm?


post w/mention of 35th anniv. of cp67 announce (houston, spring '68 share meeting)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#72

some people from CSC had come out the last week of jan68 to install cp67 at the univ. where i was undergraduate. i was then invited to attend the cp67 announce at the spring '68 houston share meeting. next spring will be 40th.

and photo from vm370 30th b'day party at share 99
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/LynnWheeler023.jpg

vm b'day picture

vm 35th b'day at share in san diego next week

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: vm 35th b'day at share in san diego next week
Date: 06 Aug 2007 08:07:04 -0700
at share is in san diego next week
http://www.share.org/events/SanDiego/index.cfm

the virtual machine group is having 35th b'day of announcement of vm370, recent x-post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#91 Combining VM list threads

note that the precursor to vm370, cp67, was announced at the spring '68 share meeting (40th anniversary next spring)

How old are you?

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: How old are you?
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:25:20 -0400
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
rfake@ibm-main.lst (Robert Fake) writes:
I'm 46 years old now. I started Assembler programming on a 360 when I was 18. Best move I ever made. I've always thought that the mainframes were here to stay and the move to "non-mainframe" platforms was driven significantly by the trade rags in the 90's. Our product and services business is dedicated to support of the mainframe, so I hope it will be around for many, many more years.

i was undergraduate and had been invited to the spring '68 share meeting for cp67 announcement ... 40 yrs next spring ... recent references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#91 Combining VM list threads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#92 vm 35th b'day at share in san diego next week

i got to present some of the work i had been doing on total rework of os/360 stage2 sysgen and some early rework that i had done on cp67. i also got to give a more detailed presentation at the fall68 share meeting in boston, misc. past references:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/93.html#1 360/67, was Re: IBM's Project F/S ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#18 CP/67 & OS MFT14
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#20 CP/67 & OS MFT14
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/97.html#22 Pre S/360 IBM Operating Systems?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/98.html#21 Reviving the OS/360 thread (Questions about OS/360)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#93 MVS vs HASP vs JES (was 2821)

PCI Compliance - Encryption of all non-console administrative access

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re:  PCI Compliance - Encryption of all non-console administrative access.
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 11:40:10 -0400
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
for some topic drift ... part of the issue is that the majority of such compromises have involved data-at-rest ... not data-in-transit ... and lots of implementations don't provide the access control that may be found in mainframe installations ... so encrypting the data at risk might be viewed as compensating process for inadequate access control. the other part of it is that studies have something like 70 percent of such compromises have involved insiders (who already may have some level of access).

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007n.html#85 PCI Compliance - Encryption of all non-console administrative access.

... above post may have only made it to the newsgroup, not the mailing list

for some additional drift, a recent post in ongoing financial crypto blog thread on (effectively) decline in security and assurance over the past several decades
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/aadsm27.htm#53 Doom and Gloom spreads, security revisionism suggests "H6.5: Be an adept!"

The Unexpected Fact about the First Computer Programmer

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@quake.garlic.com>
Subject: Re: The Unexpected Fact about the First Computer Programmer
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 07 Aug 2007 14:19:48 -0700
Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> writes:
My status report: "all known bugs are fixed."

in the process of doing the resource manager product
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare

and the related benchmarking/validation (final sequence involved 2000 benchmark/test that took 3 months elapsed time)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#bench

i had also redone quite a bit of kernel serialization operations (in part to allow the "stress" benchmarks to complete). I made the comment that all known cases of hung/zombie users had been fixed as well as all system failures related to serialization problems ... some of this is discussed in problem determination and dump reader related posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dumprx

for other archaeological referenece, it turned out the resource manager also included some amount of kernel restructuring that was compatible with multiprocessor support.

the 23jun69 unbundling announcement started charging for application software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle

however, they used the excuse that kernel software was required for machine operation and so remained "bundled" (aka free). later this viewpoint started to change ... and the resource manager was selected to be the guinea pig for starting to charge for kernel software. i had the priviledge of spending six months on and off with business and pricing people about kernel pricing policy. at that point it was decided that kernel options that weren't directly related to hardware support could be priced (however, kernel that was directly supporting software would still be free).

Following the release of the resource manager (which was priced) ... it was decided to release multiprocessor support (which would be free). The problem was that multiprocessor support was dependent on large amount of kernel structuring code that was in the resource manager (creating a problem where customer had to pay for the resource manager software in order to get the free software to work). The eventual solution was to migrate something like 80-90percent of the code in the resource manager into the "free" kernel. misc. past posts mentioning multiprocessor support and/or compare&swap instruction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp

some questions about System z PR/SM

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: some questions about System z PR/SM.
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 10:13:16 -0400
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
R.Skorupka@BREMULTIBANK.COM.PL (R.S.) writes:
No. PR/SM is microcode - a code under OS. Sometimes called "firmware". z/OS runs in LPAR. Although it can obtaine i.e. LPAR name, it is still "unaware" from PR/SM and LPARs features. z/OS works in virtual machine (Logical PARtition) and does know that machine. However some z/OS application, called HCD allows you to define "hardware configuration" - a set of I/O definitions ("manual Plug and Play") as well as division of CPC into LPARs. However the resulting file is simply transmitted to Support Element (notebook inside CPC) and it is interpreted by PR/SM. Just to complement: Another part of the file is also read by z/OS during IPL process (however this file is read from regular DASD, not SE). The prepared LPAR can be further customized on SE and can be used for Linux.

originally pr/sm was done on 3090 ... somewhat in response to amdahl's hypervisor. it basically is a subset of virtual machine capability moved into "microcode". in the amdahl scenario ... amdahl had added a variation called "macrocode" ... which was a 370 instruction variation that sat part way between the "real" microcode and standard 370 machine instructions. it significantly simplified migrating virtual machine 370 code into the native machine.

by comparison, 3090 pr/sm was a much more difficult task since it involved implementation directly in the 3090 microcode. however, much of pr/sm actually leveraged the SIE instruction which was used by virtual machine operating system to implement virtual machine mode. pr/sm evolved into supporting multiple concurrent hypervisors as "LPAR"

for some topic drift ... some old email discussing amdahl hypervisor and macrocode
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#email810318

in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006b.html#38 blast from the past ... macrocode

some old email somewhat comparing 3081 sie and 3090 sie
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#email810630

in this post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006j.html#27 virtual memory

above post also includes numerous other references to sie, pr/sm, lpars, etc

Loads Weighing Heavily on Roads

Refed: **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **, - **
From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Loads Weighing Heavily on Roads
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 11 Aug 2007 07:33:50 -0700
for something completely different:

Loads Weighing Heavily on Roads
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1030102/loads_weighing_heavily_on_roads/index.html

old threads discussing road life-time design is predicated by heavy truck axle loads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#41 Transportation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#10 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#12 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#15 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#19 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#24 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#26 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#32 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#35 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#46 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#48 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#49 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#50 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#51 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#52 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#53 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#54 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#56 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#57 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#59 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#60 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#61 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006g.html#62 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#0 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#5 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#6 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#11 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006h.html#23 The Pankian Metaphor
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006p.html#2 Overweight truckers stopped by tech checks

News report: Federal court rules that Novell still owns UNIX

From: Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: News report: Federal court rules that Novell still owns UNIX
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: 11 Aug 2007 07:36:43 -0700
a few other references:
SCO Loses
http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/07/08/10/2148253.shtml
Novell owns Unix copyrights after all
http://www.theregister.com/2007/08/11/novell_gets_unix_from_sco/
Novell Wins Right to Unix Copyrights
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,135858-c,legalissues/article.html
Novell wins right to Unix copyrights
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/081307-xensource-new-release-closes-gap.html
Novell wins right to Unix copyrights
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/08/10/Novell-wins-right-to-Unix-copyrights_1.html
Novell wins right to Unix copyrights
http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20070811/tc_infoworld/90941
Novell Wins Right to Unix Copyrights
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20070810/tc_pcworld/135858




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